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Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Elendil004 posted:

Phandalin trip report: The party was nearly TPK'd by the Mage at Old Owl Well ...cone of cold is a hell of a drug. So now they're gunshy as hell and slowly whittling down the forces at Wyvern Tor slowly. An action shot...



Here’s a convenient little tool for dressing up those tokens, if you’re interested:

https://rolladvantage.com/tokenstamp/

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neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Are College of Valor/College of Swords any good for a Bard?

They both have split-stat problems because they attack with Dex and cast with Cha; both of them are crying out for a single level dip into hexblade (which also gives them the Shield spell). They are among the worst bard subclasses, but the bard is a very strong base class. Essentially swinging a sword gives you a very good combat cantrip - but using it puts you in danger.

quote:

Is the Defensive Duelist feat good (and specifically a good feat for a Valor/Swords Bard)?

Mmmm... It's a pure combat feat that does something you need (especially as you don't have Shield on your list) but doesn't help you do your thing better, just helping you stay alive. I'd rate it behind getting your Cha to 20.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Bad Munki posted:

Here’s a convenient little tool for dressing up those tokens, if you’re interested:

https://rolladvantage.com/tokenstamp/

I like the players being squares so they're always easy to see, all the baddies are already tokenized with the module which has been 1000% worth the price.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Yep! I just like to share tools when I get the chance. I don’t get to play near as much as I’d like, but I do get to fantasize about it, so I’m always looking at these sorts of things just to take the edge off.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

Bad Munki posted:

I don’t get to play near as much as I’d like, but I do get to fantasize about it, so I’m always looking at these sorts of things just to take the edge off.
This is the real D&D experience :unsmith:

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

Reign on me.
My group is 4 people with almost always open schedules and the busiest woman alive 😭

Jimbone Tallshanks
Dec 16, 2005

You can't pull rank on murder.

TheBizzness posted:

My group is 4 people with almost always open schedules and the busiest woman alive 😭

Get a second campaign going that doesn't include her. Or give the character an excuse to be absent.

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

Reign on me.
We did actually! So now I get to play twice a month instead of once*! So in a way it was a gift.


* - hopefully

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Had a game once where one of the players was only very sporadically available. So we made him a telepathic dog (not a blink dog, but maybe a blink dog???) and when he was gone, the dog was happy to tag along but was just a dog. Since nobody in the world had any baseline expectations for such a situation, it was narratively very easy to accept.

Like, “I guess if you meet a telepathic cleric dog, sometimes the vibe is off and they’re just gonna be a dog for a bit, why not.”

Worked well and allowed us to keep the character on hand but a non-participant as needed. I really liked that solution.

Behind the scenes, the cleric in question had actually been put into a sort of immortal stasis in this way from ancient times by his god in order to bring him forward for a greater need. Who would notice a stray dog that lived forever? And the cleric only occasionally being the present mind of the thing was a side effect of slowly coming out of this time-travel-the-slow-way situation.

Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 29, 2024

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Whenever one of my players can't make it and doesn't want us to play their character, I just say they have explosive, uncurable food poisoning

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007
i run three different “weekly” games which ultimately total out to about one weekly game

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice
I've never even bothered making up backstory for why a given character is or is not available. If life happens and someone has to drop out for a session then welp, they're just not there and nobody in the universe remembers their existence to even ask about them. When they manage to get back in to the game I try to let the players brief them on what happened in their absence so I don't contaminate the narrative they've built up with my head canon then we get right back to it with no explanation asked or given. The character is there now and has always been there now and will always be there now until they're not again.

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007

bird food bathtub posted:

I've never even bothered making up backstory for why a given character is or is not available. If life happens and someone has to drop out for a session then welp, they're just not there and nobody in the universe remembers their existence to even ask about them. When they manage to get back in to the game I try to let the players brief them on what happened in their absence so I don't contaminate the narrative they've built up with my head canon then we get right back to it with no explanation asked or given. The character is there now and has always been there now and will always be there now until they're not again.

im both lazy and extremely picky about continuity and verisimilitude so if a player cant play, then the game doesnt happen. if they have to stop playing for a while, then i put in the work to sideline their character in a narratively satisfying way that also allows for them to return arbitrarily. things like that are important to me

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.
I just let another player npc and play their character

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

bird food bathtub posted:

I've never even bothered making up backstory for why a given character is or is not available. If life happens and someone has to drop out for a session then welp, they're just not there and nobody in the universe remembers their existence to even ask about them. When they manage to get back in to the game I try to let the players brief them on what happened in their absence so I don't contaminate the narrative they've built up with my head canon then we get right back to it with no explanation asked or given. The character is there now and has always been there now and will always be there now until they're not again.

Yeah this is basically how I do it as well. I might make use of a convenient explanation ("the Paladin stays outside the dungeon to guard the horses", or "The Bard goes back to the inn to rest up") but I'm also perfectly happy to just have an absent player travel along with the party while they make their great escape, or whatever. They can't be specifically attacked, nor can the party make use of their abilities, but it seems like an easy hand-wave to me. I also do party experience and I try to balance out loot rewards, though if you're missing then you'll probably fall a bit behind on that.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.
Item crafting in 5th edition is total trash.

imagine dungeons
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.
I’ve always just said they have diarrhea (the ultimate sick call excuse) and the game continues without them… OR we played the goofy side campaign that ties in a little bit to the main story.

Jimbone Tallshanks
Dec 16, 2005

You can't pull rank on murder.

bird food bathtub posted:

I've never even bothered making up backstory for why a given character is or is not available. If life happens and someone has to drop out for a session then welp, they're just not there and nobody in the universe remembers their existence to even ask about them. When they manage to get back in to the game I try to let the players brief them on what happened in their absence so I don't contaminate the narrative they've built up with my head canon then we get right back to it with no explanation asked or given. The character is there now and has always been there now and will always be there now until they're not again.

Yeah, the actual playing is the important part. Unless you really only enjoy playing with the missing person, just play.

homeless snail
Mar 14, 2007

Hollismason posted:

Item crafting in 5th edition is total trash.
what item crafting, it doesnt even exist

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

neonchameleon posted:

They both have split-stat problems because they attack with Dex and cast with Cha; both of them are crying out for a single level dip into hexblade (which also gives them the Shield spell). They are among the worst bard subclasses, but the bard is a very strong base class. Essentially swinging a sword gives you a very good combat cantrip - but using it puts you in danger.

Split stat may not be a super-big problem if I get a campaign where players roll for stats, but this is all just hypothetical. I'm asking now because I got a possible character idea so I'm asking about its viability while its on my mind. At the moment none of the other Bard subclasses give me any inspiration for a character to play. Or rather, the other subclasses don't seem to match up with the idea I have for a possible character.

I hadn't thought about Hexblade, that's an idea (assuming the DM doesn't groan and roll their eyes at a Yet Another Hexblade dip). It would also give a better attack cantrip (even without a second Warlock level) and it might possibly give some explanation for the curse afflicting the character.

neonchameleon posted:

Mmmm... It's a pure combat feat that does something you need (especially as you don't have Shield on your list) but doesn't help you do your thing better, just helping you stay alive. I'd rate it behind getting your Cha to 20.

Obviously, a Half-Elf would have a better stat spread for point-buy, and I get the impression that you think it wouldn't be a great tradeoff to sacrifice stats for being a Var. Human specifically to take Defensive Duelist at level 1.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

homeless snail posted:

what item crafting, it doesnt even exist

For nonmagical items, Player's Handbook, page 187.
For Magical Items, Dungeon Master Guide, pages 128-129.
They are both deliberately written so that is extremely inefficient for PCs. It takes 20 days to craft an uncommon magic item, and 200 days to craft a rare one.

YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 30, 2024

PeterWeller
Apr 21, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

When a PC can't make it and they are cool with the rest of us playing on without them, we just all pretend they're there and they're contributing, but the camera never focuses on them. I'll adjust the encounter, and we all assume the missing PC is dealing with the missing enemies or whatever.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

they're at home, working on crafting a magic item

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Leperflesh posted:

they're at home, working on crafting a magic item

My party's wizard just hires every single hedge mage/magic university student they come across to work on pumping out Wands of Magic Missile

Zurreco
Dec 27, 2004

Cutty approves.
Doesn't Xanathars have better magical crafting mechanics?

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.

YggdrasilTM posted:

For nonmagical items, Player's Handbook, page 187.
For Magical Items, Dungeon Master Guide, pages 128-129.
They are both deliberately written so that is extremely inefficient for PCs. It takes 20 days to craft an uncommon magic item, and 200 days to craft a rare one.

Yeah the example they give is make plate armor and it takes 300 days. It's absolutely ridiculous. It goes in 5 gold piece increments. So like using a simple alchemist kit and try and make alchemist fire it takes 10 loving days. Just to make a single vial.

I wanted to have a wizard that made potions and poo poo and its like "loving nope".

Just no loving options.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
Isn't that pretty realistic?

Like if you could pump out a suit of full plate in a week everyone would wear full plate.

Jimbone Tallshanks
Dec 16, 2005

You can't pull rank on murder.

If you want to use baseline D&D 5e for anything but going on adventures and crawling dungeons and killing everything you meet you're gonna get frustrated.

Yusin
Mar 4, 2021

In the early days of D&D it was assumed that while the wizard was spending 200 days making a magic item, the player would swap to a different character and focus on leveling them up.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Zurreco posted:

Doesn't Xanathars have better magical crafting mechanics?

Yeah it does. They’re much better than the DMG or PHB ones, and also play into expanded tool proficiencies and guild mechanics.

Yusin
Mar 4, 2021

Kaal posted:

Yeah it does. They’re much better than the DMG or PHB ones, and also play into expanded tool proficiencies and guild mechanics.

I would it be shocked to see that version in the new DMG.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Split stat may not be a super-big problem if I get a campaign where players roll for stats, but this is all just hypothetical. I'm asking now because I got a possible character idea so I'm asking about its viability while its on my mind. At the moment none of the other Bard subclasses give me any inspiration for a character to play. Or rather, the other subclasses don't seem to match up with the idea I have for a possible character.

I hadn't thought about Hexblade, that's an idea (assuming the DM doesn't groan and roll their eyes at a Yet Another Hexblade dip). It would also give a better attack cantrip (even without a second Warlock level) and it might possibly give some explanation for the curse afflicting the character.

Obviously, a Half-Elf would have a better stat spread for point-buy, and I get the impression that you think it wouldn't be a great tradeoff to sacrifice stats for being a Var. Human specifically to take Defensive Duelist at level 1.

If you're focused on hitting people with a weapon, you could really just ignore CHA beyond your starting starting score, since a lot of good bard spells don't need an attack roll or save and perfectly well with a modifier of zero. People might say Swords or Valor Bard is a worse bard than Lore Bard, but that kind of glosses over how any kind of bard at all is still a Better Rogue, and the two martial-leaning ones are like 80% of a whole fighter, on top of being a full-casting bard.

If you really care about min-maxing then it's hard to really compete with a custom lineage, where you're free to put a +2 into your main stat, get another +1 from a half-feat, and start the game with 18 in a stat, which is otherwise impossible with point buy. It's not the only way to play the game but it's also hard to argue against being better at the main shtick that you do every turn, all the time. Piercer and Slasher aren't great, but at the price of "basically free" it's more than nothing, otherwise Skill Expert is there to just Bard Harder.

So what do you imagine as your main shtick, anyways, and which one is supporting? A bard can definitely be great as either a flamboyant fencer or a magician that's handy with a blade in a pinch, as the jack of all trades, master of one class, but you do need to pick one.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
Yeah, my faelock's Patron just magicked me away and back again every time I couldn't make it for whatever errands they needed me to do. It worked well narratively until the cleric started making noise about trying to free me from my "curse" instead of just accepting the narrative conceit that I worked nights and weekends sometimes. I'm walking through Faerie, gently caress off, it's not a curse.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Ravenfood posted:

Yeah, my faelock's Patron just magicked me away and back again every time I couldn't make it for whatever errands they needed me to do. It worked well narratively until the cleric started making noise about trying to free me from my "curse" instead of just accepting the narrative conceit that I worked nights and weekends sometimes. I'm walking through Faerie, gently caress off, it's not a curse.

Start making noise about freeing the cleric from their master's chain.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender

lightrook posted:

If you're focused on hitting people with a weapon, you could really just ignore CHA beyond your starting starting score, since a lot of good bard spells don't need an attack roll or save and perfectly well with a modifier of zero. People might say Swords or Valor Bard is a worse bard than Lore Bard, but that kind of glosses over how any kind of bard at all is still a Better Rogue, and the two martial-leaning ones are like 80% of a whole fighter, on top of being a full-casting bard.

If you really care about min-maxing then it's hard to really compete with a custom lineage, where you're free to put a +2 into your main stat, get another +1 from a half-feat, and start the game with 18 in a stat, which is otherwise impossible with point buy. It's not the only way to play the game but it's also hard to argue against being better at the main shtick that you do every turn, all the time. Piercer and Slasher aren't great, but at the price of "basically free" it's more than nothing, otherwise Skill Expert is there to just Bard Harder.

So what do you imagine as your main shtick, anyways, and which one is supporting? A bard can definitely be great as either a flamboyant fencer or a magician that's handy with a blade in a pinch, as the jack of all trades, master of one class, but you do need to pick one.

Well, that's kinda the crux of the problem. I started thinking about how while I have rough ideas for many classes, I didn't have the slightest idea how I'd do one for a Bard, and as I thought more, I came up with an idea. To answer your question, probably more flamboyant fencer, I feel that fits the rough character idea I have better... EDIT: So much so that I have trouble picturing the character casting magic - what would that look like.

But I'm not sure how much it helps, as the character idea could fit other classes and isn't even reliant on being a Bard. And I do recall hearing that a melee fighting Bard is a poor choice because it's a d8 HD class without sneak attack or damage mitigation.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 30, 2024

Jimbone Tallshanks
Dec 16, 2005

You can't pull rank on murder.

Bards have a lot of buff and utility spells that don't involve your spellcasting mod at all, so low charisma isn't that big a barrier to effectiveness.

lightrook
Nov 7, 2016

Pin 188

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Well, that's kinda the crux of the problem. I started thinking about how while I have rough ideas for many classes, I didn't have the slightest idea how I'd do one for a Bard, and as I thought more, I came up with an idea. To answer your question, probably more flamboyant fencer, I feel that fits the rough character idea I have better. But I'm not sure how much it helps, as the character idea could fit other classes and isn't even reliant on being a Bard. And I do recall hearing that a melee fighting Bard is a poor choice because it's a d8 HD class without sneak attack or damage mitigation.

I mean, it's a poor choice for a bard, compared to being a full wizard plus half a rogue, but it's a good choice for being a Better Rogue plus most of a wizard. Swords bard gets equal or better AC, for example, plus mitigation in the form of spells and bardic inspiration, plus damage from Extra Attack, which is usually worth more than Sneak Attack anyways. Later on, you even get to steal premium level 5 ranger and paladin spells, like Swift Quiver or Holy Weapon, to pull ahead in the race again, so if anything it's rogue that doesn't really have the tools to keep up.

I guess it's a more meaningful disadvantage to spend resources to keep pace when you're playing a six encounter day with two short rests, but that's also not the typical table experience. Otherwise, compared to a rogue or fighter, you're really gaining a lot while giving up relatively little.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011

Jimbone Tallshanks posted:

If you want to use baseline D&D 5e for anything but going on adventures and crawling dungeons and killing everything you meet you're gonna get frustrated.

Any edition, really.
In 3.X a smith with +18 in Craft needs 50 days on average to craft a breastplate, and one year to craft a full plate.

YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Mar 30, 2024

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007
FEEL FREE TO DISREGARD THIS POST

It is guaranteed to be lazy, ignorant, and/or uninformed.
I didn't even think to search but what about old.school modules made for fourth. That'd be easier to convert.

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Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Well, that's kinda the crux of the problem. I started thinking about how while I have rough ideas for many classes, I didn't have the slightest idea how I'd do one for a Bard, and as I thought more, I came up with an idea. To answer your question, probably more flamboyant fencer, I feel that fits the rough character idea I have better... EDIT: So much so that I have trouble picturing the character casting magic - what would that look like.

But I'm not sure how much it helps, as the character idea could fit other classes and isn't even reliant on being a Bard. And I do recall hearing that a melee fighting Bard is a poor choice because it's a d8 HD class without sneak attack or damage mitigation.

I take it you've considered for your fencer a swashbuckler rogue?

Or does it specifically have to be a bard of some stripe?

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