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Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

mastershakeman posted:

Are there any abilities that let you use your reaction for extra movement?

A couple of pages late, but a Swords Bard gets this with their Mobile Flourish. We figured this out the other night when our wood elf bard, who is built as an archer, realized when they attack on their turn they have 35(base)+10(Blade Flourish)+45(Mobile Flourish as reaction).

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Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Conspiratiorist posted:

This is the D&D 5e thread.

I sometimes can't tell if you do this stuff on purpose or not.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
To be fair the fact that it does apply to attacks, damage, AC, initiative, a plethora of useful skills and one of the most useful saves as well does... make strength not anywhere near as useful. And this is coming from someone with a Level 20 Barbarian.

To be fair a lot of DMs seem to not like the Big Muscle Guy be a Big Muscle Guy and instead be a Warf.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Dec 24, 2018

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Toshimo posted:

I really think this thread is off to a good start and we've had a lot of people post a lot of good links and resources and everybody's been largely chill and good to each other for a whole 24 hours and I really appreciate that.

The only way I think it could really get to be the best thread it can be, though, is that if we all took a moment every time we read a real dumb MonsterEnvy take and went "nope, I don't need to respond to this, I can just let it float away like garbage on the tide."

Namaste.

You aren't helping in the slightest, my dude.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
I wouldn't mind the exact link for that.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Toshimo posted:

I'm currently working through a write-up on the Official Adventurer's League play through of Waterdeep Heist and the DM (who is one of the people writing the rules for AL) is absolutely infuriating with how he's handling new players. Not only does he get basic rules wrong (when the newbies have the right interpretation in the first place), but his choice to not guide players through how to play to the game is killing me.

For instance, here's a bit from the first notable fight:
  • A rogue PC wants to throw 2 daggers. He tells them "no, you only have 1 attack".
  • A bard(?) PC wants to "spend their turn playing their instrument loudly to distract and get the attention of the monster". This should be cool and good and just be the help action. Instead, he makes them do a perform check, tells them they've enraged the monster who is now focused on them. Mechanically, this does nothing as he doesn't ever have the monster interact with them, and he doesn't have anyone benefit from the action. He establishes the precedent that he's gonna slow down the game to chuck meaningless dice so players can forfeit their turn. It's gross.
  • He gets bored of the combat after like... a round and a half, and has the PCs shortcut the entire rest of the fight with a OHKO action. Half of the players either spent their entire time moving into position (in TotM, no less) and I think only one of them made any sort of meaningful combat action (the rogue who only got to throw her one dagger).
  • It was pretty apparent that some of the people at the table were having a hard time because they were doing raw die rolls and not adding all their modifiers. Taking a second to remind a bunch of level 1s to use their proficiency and attribute modifiers would have been a huge help to the table, and also a good reminder for new players at home.

Overall, it was butts to watch and makes me mad, because it reinforces bad player and DM habits in what could have been a very good teaching session to start the program.

God this sounds absolutely horrible.

How is it someone in charge of writing rules for their Big Thing to make the game more accessible to people with time constraints etc be so incompetent at it? I've never DMed before, even though I'd like to, and I know I could handle all the stuff you described better.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Toshimo posted:

So, S8 of Adventurer's League saw them bring in some real restrictions on Magic Item acquisition. And whiny manbabies flipped their everloving poo poo on it.

I just learned today what the official DM advice is for the approximate number of Big Boy magic items (DMG Tables F-I) a player is expected to accrue from level 1 to 20 is, to stay sort of within the power guidelines of official adventures.

5: 2 uncommon, 1 each of rare, very rare, and legendary. Plus around 20 assorted minor items and consumables from Tables A-E.

Now, how many items does AL effectively limit you to by comparison?

10: 1 uncommon, 2 rare, 6 very rare, 1 legendary. There's some extra points floating around and you can get more legendaries instead of very rares, but they are more expensive and it's more a matter of unlocking them by running the right adventures.

D&D "fans" are the worst.

The issue from what I understand is less the amount, and more how you get them. Instead of kicking down the Dragon's front door, giving him the worst bad day ever, and then getting to rifle through his hoard... "Congrats! Here's some loot points". Kind of deflates the whole thing, doesn't it?

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Nehru the Damaja posted:

It's more that the mechanics are nature junk but the oath could be so much more. If your oath is to uphold the good things in life, why does that manifest in elfy tree hugger ways. I like the tenets and mechanics but neither seems to imply the other, to me.

I've rarely taken the tenets to mean much of anything, and with my own Goblin Paladin I actually reflavored them so while he is mechanically a Vengeance Paladin he is less "I AM THE NIGHT". The fluff surrounding mechanics means little to nothing, so long as your DM will roll with it.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
If there is one thing that I have learned regarding monsters in D&D 5e, and honestly in a couple of other systems: CR means jack poo poo. I've both seen/been in parties that just absolutely stomped all over what should have been a deadly encounter and also had really rough encounters with what should have been simple threats. And a single creature of even deadly threat could quite likely still get its butt kicked with ease if it isn't buffed up with legendary actions/resistances.

Worst yet, and this problem does lean into some thread favorites like SotDL, is that the recommended challenge rules from the rulebooks aren't even followed in a lot of adventures.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
As much as you disagree with him all the time, I'm not getting your inability to believe what they're saying. Every group is different, and honestly it sounds like MonsterEnvy has a very chill and relaxed group that enjoys everything about the game rather than just being able to act in combat.

TOTP Edit:

Oh, well. So I'm kind of thinking of doing a West Marches styled game for my cities local events. It feels like an ideal thing to run given the drop-in and drop-out nature, and I'm curious if anyone has any tips for this kind of game or any other resources related to it. I've worked out a map, and may determine a starting location randomly.

My intention is to have a slight spin on the usual concept of a West Marches game, in that one of the first goals is for the players to aid in creating the first encampment/settlement and all that involves. I'm thinking of also using some of the Stronghold rules from Strongholds & Followers once it begins to turn from a simple camp into something resembling an actual town.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Jan 3, 2019

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Razorwired posted:

They need to make an edited show or animated series based on voice clips or something. I fell off around the start of the Chroma Conclave stuff because 4 hours per episode was too much even with downloading old episodes and listening on the bus or w/e.

My only other thought is that it has created unrealistic expectations in some new players. Everyone wants a Matt Mercer when a good half of DMs don't even try to do voices. Which isn't a slam on them because DMs all have their own benefits and shortcomings and stuff. To his own credit Mercer is aware of that line of complaint and hasn't taken it personally or gotten lovely.

He's on record doing the complete opposite actually. There was a big post on I wanna say the plain old DnD subreddit where someone was connecting the dots and just feeling really bad cause their players seemed to be expecting something they couldn't really do. Matt came in and apologized, even though it isn't his own fault, and emphasized the fact that different people have different strengths when running a game and I believe he also went over some of his own weaknesses. He ended the post with a quote for the OP to tell his players, straight from the Mercer's Mouth. The OP was overwhelming shocked and thankful for that response.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
A lot of the time I see a DM sort of work out an average between everyone.

When it comes to the one roll thing, I'd allow a bard to help along with everything else AlphaDog said. It's kind of what they -do-. I'd also let stuff like the Halfling Luck feat, or an item that might do something similar apply. Lets everyone feel like they get to do something outside of combat, which is definitely a big reason you see the whole table begin rolling sometimes. Most of my DMs are good about announcing who rolls though.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
... guys this is a really, really stupid thing to get wound up about and Toshimo basically got riled up over nothing.

Something could be thick and strong enough to provide you total protection from attack rolls, yeah. Makes sense. Doesn't matter if its stone or crystal or super thick glass.

Generally most saving throw based spells however only require a target you can see. These work because you aren't going through anything. I've had to deal with this exact same situation with a bunch of mind flayers my party was kicking the poo poo out of and then one of the last three used wall of force around themselves. Didn't help much against the DC Save from a Talisman of Pure Good, however.

But yeah. For once what Crawford is saying is actually making complete sense. Cover doesn't have to be opaque to provide full protection. But they can still know you're there for other types of spells/abilities.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
I agree pretty heavily with the whole... the spell says what it does, so that's what it does thing. They are indeed meant to be their own mini-rules, and because Wall of Force doesn't say it actually blocks sight then spells which aren't projectiles of some kind should work.

From my viewpoint, Wall of Force is basically a Tiny Hut spell that you can use in the middle of combat. Main difference being Tiny Hut is actually opaque, and unlike Wall of Force it actually specifically talks about spells and other magical effects being unable to pass through. Generally I would consider Wall of Force as something you'd use to block off creatures that have no magical affinity at all, you can effectively trap them and then run off.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

So I posted a little in the GM advice thread, but reading this sounds like another way to keep players from cheesing rests. Most of this post seems to be about 3e however, do you think it could be applied just as well to 5e? And if so, how well might it work when the "dungeon" is basically the open wilds between safe spots?

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

gradenko_2000 posted:

Applying a bonus to the enemy's rolls whenever the players bail out of a dungeon without completing it will work.

Applying a multiplier to XP income ... can work, but it would require that you track XP in the first place, even if it's not in the RAW XP system/XP amounts.

Applying a multiplier to gold income ... probably won't work, because there's not enough things to buy with gold for it to really serve as a driver. What you might want to do instead is to break the 4th wall a bit and promise more/better loot (and mean it!) if the players keep going.

It can still work in a wilderness scenario: if the players go back to a safe spot before the current wilderness region is "cleared", then the penalty is applied/the bonus is removed. The longer the players stick around and keep working towards the objective of the region, the more of a bonus they start to gain.

That could be a great incentive on top of making long rests difficult to come by in the wilderness. Normally in my local event stuff gold isn't terribly useful since there's a rather annoying convention that you cannot allow players to buy ANY item that is above common rarity, but I'm gonna be making use of some of the construction elements from Strongholds & Followers so a multiplying amount of gold could be handy as another carrot. Said convention also applies to the crafting of items... all seems a little unnecessary, but I suppose when you are looking to not restrict how much gold is given out you try to make concessions elsewhere.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
I've not really played in any of the official modules, but from little reading I've done on them they aren't really made to all be played one after another unless you'll be willing to do some big twisting around of XP/monster difficulty.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Problem with relying on the latter is running into Antimagic Fields, Beholders and the like.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Pendent posted:

I'd imagine my party will probably die before hitting content like Beholders. We have me, a Paladin who likes to hit things with a hammer but who will probably end up healing a bunch for reasons that will soon be apparent, a Monk, a Fighter who uses a rapier, a Bard, and a Ranger. Our DM is also not throwing his punches at all -which we are all on board with 0 and we have come very close to having the party wiped out in each of our two sessions thus far.

Considering that the best form of healing is less keeping someone from going down, and more healing them a little bit once they do, you should be fine to be honest. Sometimes you don't even bother getting someone up, unless you're looking for a retreat.


As for WotC and books, they've always been really good about replacing them.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Smite-Fisting is most definitely a thing, but I guess if your DM is a big rear end in a top hat about it they wouldn't let you do it.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
I'm not sure if you're actually reading, at all.

Yes to all of those.

I hate the stupid natural language crap as much as anyone else in the thread but generally if it mentions melee weapon attack it means smacking it with something works. If it's a weapon attack, it works.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jan 29, 2019

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
The fact that the Brute could be the one easiest way to have a boxer/street fighter styled strength character without a tonne of hoops and/or custom magic items is really a PITA too, since as someone said it probably won't ever get released.

There's a guy in my local events who is entirely 100% certain Champion Fighters are fine. But given his 18 C-Fighter/2 Barbarian character has a big gently caress-off sword designed to crush even harder when he crits might have something to do with it.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Just let them do it. It's all nonsensical overly specific nonsense.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Changing all his fire spells to acid would honestly line up to a net negative since so many undead are resistant to acid so I don't see anything bad about that.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
They did not do down the line rolling, you are wrong there and it's sad that you'd try to spread misinformation when the VOD is freely available on the channel. Hell, Colville is even more kind than some DMs where if you roll below an 8 you reroll. If you somehow don't get any 15's, you reroll the whole thing.

But yeah it was probably pre-planned, even up to the player being in on it. The table knew that things would be tough, and that the prologue of sorts was meant to give their organization a crushing defeat. What better way narratively than to lose the top of your chain of command?

Even if it wasn't planned out with Lars, the player in question. It's still a really strong narrative moment. These people have been playing together for a long time, there's only one newer person at the table and even they've played in one of Colville's campaigns in the past. The world is known to them, they know how dangerous it is and some people at the table already had a reason to hate the villain, now their characters do too. People just love to project their own bullshit onto it for some reason.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 1, 2019

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
It's the major reason I think that he had them all set up retainers/junior officers as backups. If it wasn't entirely pre-planned and given they are a 5-person party, he likely rolled a d6 in the end to choose who was focused on. Lars, being the most veteran player at the table and knowing he could handle it, was probably assigned 5-6 while everyone else was 1-4.

Loss of a character can feel bad even if you know it's coming, the main difference here compared to when it happens on Critical Role is Lars didn't get up and leave the room/camera area.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

kingcom posted:

I'll definitely give this watch when I get the chance, I'm not sure why there wouldnt be a mention of 'hey people are going to die, go into this game with a backup character and ideas even for session 1' though if that was the idea. My most optimistic guess is that this is trying to give something to get people excited about and talking about the campaign for the audience, hence why its not mentioned until it happened.

Well in this case, there was. It's why everyone already have backups not only planned out, but literally following their current characters orders as junior officers in the mercenary company.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Conspiratiorist posted:

I'm late to Colville chat but he's a bad DM and a bad design apologist. His only contribution to the D&D scene is making long-winded videos about how "the rules are just, like a suggestion, man" *proceeds to massively profit off self-publishing homebrew rules*

I think I realize why you grate on me sometimes man, you try to put what you say off as absolute fact. He isn't a bad DM, he runs differently than you do. Get off your high horse for once.

kingcom posted:

Man that's great! Guess it was a real good long con to have Lars be unsure what he was going to play and rolling up stats just for show I guess. Maybe I missed it but what's his new character and when did he get introduced?

Even if it was sarcastic, which I'm not sure why you feel the need to be since it's a legit question. He has his replacement character, he didn't play him for the last third of the stream. The name of the character is King, he is a cleric and the Chronicler for their mercenary band(basically some important position that gleans ancient knowledge from a tome linked to the past deeds of their mercenary company).

Yes, the character had custom commissioned art. I'm sure that it felt just as lovely when it happened in the second season of Critical Role too, despite there being more sessions of using the art and mini.

Arthil fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 1, 2019

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

kingcom posted:

I felt like my tone during that was unfair sarcastic for the phrase and I'll take your word on Critical Role cause I stopped watching that? Plus idk I feel like that would be a pretty different and comparable situation. I personally if I was expecting to have to go into this with knowledge that my character is going to die would not have custom commissioned art.

Look I get what he was trying to do and run a Black Company style campaign, I've run that before as a warhammer 40k style Gaunts Ghosts campaign. It can work but a big key to it is
a) having everyone create and run 2-4 different characters as part of the company and have people rotate in and out about who they will be playing for the current scenario/arc etc (having your players open to their other PCs still operating and being vulnerable when you're not controlling them
b) setting and creating a pile of npcs with your players so everyone has quick and direct investment for the people your are working this
c) letting them get a win before a defeat

This means when things go bad and players are forced to start eating that military attrition, its a real rough emotional journey because of everything your set up

He may have some brilliant plan and ideally hes that why hes funnelling them through a tunnel so far he on top of that he may not even be doing this type of game anyway but I feel its not some outrageous attitude to be skeptical about this especially for those of us who watched his last set of streams and games and watched his campaign diaries about the kind of stuff he loves doing and seeing in his games.

Hes enthusiastically talked about the 'Colville Screw' as a reason you want to systematically exterminate everything in a dungeon or the second you gently caress up that stealth he'll drop everything you skipped on your way there. It's a very old style kind of gameplay which is not necessarily a good spotlight.

It seems like they are kind of doing a) with the retainer/junior officer thing. They may not all be fully fleshed out sheets, ready to go at a moments notice. But they have personalities, backstories etc and they've outright worked out a system where your replacement can receive some of your stuff if you die. The only thing that didn't happen is Lars just picking up right away with King, and I can't rightly blame him whether it was planned or not. Losing a character sucks, you're rarely gonna see someone pumping their fist in the air and going "gently caress YEAH! Next character!"

b) seems to be covered by the entire idea of the merc company. Now they also have the need to bolster their numbers. When it comes to c) a crushing defeat was known to be how the campaign itself would start. I think the major thing is we're actually seeing all of this, rather than from Session one Colville going. "The Chain Is Broken, used as a pawn by Lady Sariel to attempt to kill Lord Ajax, The Invincible, their Commander slain by an abominable creature from hell itself and his very soul left to the devices of demons. They lick their wounds across the sea, only now arriving to the great city of Capital to rebuild. What will The Chain do, in the end? Continue as mere mercenaries, or seek revenge for their fallen?" and then rolling in like that. Mercer had some smaller pre-game sessions for Season 2 and by the sound of things poo poo got dicey in a couple of them, but we'll never know, it was never streamed.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

kingcom posted:

Actually another separate point, as multiple people have point out and after watching his older videos I remember Lars definitely and most of the others I've seen in his videos at some point as his players. Wouldn't this kinda mean that they all know that death is a possibility because hes talked before about killing players in his game and going through the motions about if he felt it was right at the time etc. I'm not sure why this needed to be demonstrated to the players at all really and I'm assuming (if its not for the audience) its purely to make the players emotionally invested but that still seems like a really rough way to get that investment? Again the better way to do it historically is to always build up then knock down to make them want to build back up again.

I didn't feel very good about it seeing it happen live myself, to get everything straight. But dwelling on the experience of the players, and everyone there as a group made me realize that this is just how they play. I'd never want something like this dropped on me without any kind of expectation, but I'm pretty sure that isn't what's happened here. People harp on about it being Bad DMing, when given the stories of previous campaigns, this is just the style of game they play.

I've also seen people complain about the heavy third person/OOC talk, the cross-talk etc. Which is obviously them coming in expecting CR when that isn't what was promised. These are nerds in the industry, without the years of voice acting/theater/etc experience behind them, playing their home game. It varies a lot I'm sure, but on average It feels like their type of game with people not deep-diving into character etc is more common than becoming your character as soon as you sit down.

Despite my feelings about what happened in the moment, I did love the line from Anna's character, Judge. "I don't take orders from dead men."

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
That feels like a weird way to approach it. It's like you're viewing it as if they have only ever played with Matt running a game, period, and that they are trapped by it. Given their age I highly doubt that's the case. If I'm recalling correctly, someone at that table has run a game that Matt has played in himself and it might be Phil but I'd need to check.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
I think I know the one you're talking about, and I actually found that to be a really great video. It sort of pushed against the kinds of people that would get mad about Critical Role, when they'd make mistakes and just roll with it instead of wasting time looking up the specifics.

Edit: Watching that podcast with the Matt's, Adam and Mearls really was pretty great just to see Adam and Mearls butt heads.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Razorwired posted:

In the context of suggesting DMs for newbies to see themselves after rolling stats in 5e and "The first two sessions are gonna be railroady" are both terrible advice.

The stream is not where someone should be trying to learn from Colville, at all. They are playing a game, not putting on a show after all. It's the post-game videos he'll be putting out after each session which is where one would learn anything, and given what he's said on reddit that video is probably going to preface with. "Don't do what I did, unless there's already a lot of trust built between you and the player."

It isn't like the guy is springing this randomly, people that look at his youtube channel can see he's been keeping the community that watches him up to date on how the beginning of the campaign will be. But people like to paint things with their own brush, rather than pay attention.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Mr. Maltose posted:

Don’t learn how to play the game by watching the game be played is certainly a stance to take, I suppose.

A group that's already well established, they're all friends. Have played the game, other games, and whole campaigns together.

Not the place to necessarily learn if you're brand new to running, or are dealing with a table full of random people or friends that haven't played together before. As someone in the CR thread also said, I also definitely wouldn't want someone learning D&D directly from CR either.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Hold Person is a pretty obvious one, Slow too.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Been keeping up with The Chain, really digging things overall even if the first episode was a bit rough.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow
Just keep in mind that, even with Action Surge. You are restricted on what you can cast. Say you already got your Spiritual Weapon/Guardians blender going on, what it'll do is let you cast one normal spell, and then a cantrip.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

MonsterEnvy posted:

You sure. I thought that was only the restriction with bonus action spells.

Just looked into it. Huh, it might be in the rules for spellcasting and I just hadn't read it but that is surprising. Seems you could double spell... so long as you don't use your BA to CAST a spell.

Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Conspiratiorist posted:

It's honestly a very dumb rule that only exists for the sake of preventing Sorcerers from casting Fireball twice on their turn (unless they multiclass into Fighter).

Yeah, my Saturday DM has actually outright told our sorcerer that they will allow them to cast full spells via metamagic. Cause the way they see it, they're just running through their resources even harder.

Though the sorcerer leans towards double casting Magic Missile, surprisingly effective.

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Arthil
Feb 17, 2012

A Beard of Constant Sorrow

Conspiratiorist posted:

Quickened Metamagic is less SP available for Twinned; I think I only ever used it a handful of times throughout the entirety of CoS.

Yeah, it's definitely bursty but we'll see if they realize the benefits of twinned haste.

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