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One thing to note is that in the software world, working in Japan is can be a black hole for your resume because most dev work in Japan is pretty bad. There are some good companies of course but unless you plan to make your career in Japan your next step will be an upwards battle of convincing them that you actually did do good work at your last company and kept up with the latest trends and developments in the field as most Japanese companies do not. This is probably less of an issue of a small startup where they actually value your work, but the stereotypes will definitely be against you unless the company ends up breaking out and becoming a huge player on the international stage. It's like going to a Japanese university, sure it's possible to get into a great program and take advantage of all of the resources and come out with a lot of new skills and knowledge, but if you try to apply for jobs overseas you'll have to fight the stereotypes that you didn't just piss around for 4 years and learn nothing of value.
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Jan 3, 2019 05:10
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Original_Z posted:One thing to note is that in the software world, working in Japan is can be a black hole for your resume because most dev work in Japan is pretty bad. There are some good companies of course but unless you plan to make your career in Japan your next step will be an upwards battle of convincing them that you actually did do good work at your last company and kept up with the latest trends and developments in the field as most Japanese companies do not. This is probably less of an issue of a small startup where they actually value your work, but the stereotypes will definitely be against you unless the company ends up breaking out and becoming a huge player on the international stage. It's like going to a Japanese university, sure it's possible to get into a great program and take advantage of all of the resources and come out with a lot of new skills and knowledge, but if you try to apply for jobs overseas you'll have to fight the stereotypes that you didn't just piss around for 4 years and learn nothing of value. Yeah, this is definitely a concern for me. This particular company does work with some fairly cool modern technology, which might help with that, but I do worry that if I take the Japan job for a few years, and the offer in NY disappears (company isn't hiring anymore, or doesn't want me anymore), it could be harder to break back into the top tiers of programming jobs - they seem to mostly hire fresh grads or from each other. That's probably the biggest thing stopping me from just a taking the Japan job, alongside the effort and expense of moving, the potential social isolation from not speaking the language very well and having to switch my anxiety meds as the current ones I'm on aren't available in Japan (or I guess the state of Japanese mental health care in general).
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Jan 3, 2019 16:21
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mmm11105 posted:Yeah, this is definitely a concern for me. This particular company does work with some fairly cool modern technology, which might help with that, but I do worry that if I take the Japan job for a few years, and the offer in NY disappears (company isn't hiring anymore, or doesn't want me anymore), it could be harder to break back into the top tiers of programming jobs - they seem to mostly hire fresh grads or from each other. I kind of assumed this entire thread that you were fluent in Japanese and that's part of why you were contemplating it. If you're not fluent then just go ahead and forget about it. As the other poster said though it seems you're trying to find people to agree the Tokyo job is the better option, so go ahead and take it if it is truly a burning desire. But from the information you've given the NYC job seems a better fit in every aspect for you.
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Jan 3, 2019 21:31
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Raldikuk posted:I kind of assumed this entire thread that you were fluent in Japanese and that's part of why you were contemplating it. If you're not fluent then just go ahead and forget about it. As the other poster said though it seems you're trying to find people to agree the Tokyo job is the better option, so go ahead and take it if it is truly a burning desire. But from the information you've given the NYC job seems a better fit in every aspect for you. No, I'm far from fluent in Japanese - I'm trying to learn, would be nice that I would be able to learn faster there, but my Japanese is just above an N5 level. The company is all in English though.
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Jan 3, 2019 21:41
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i don't see a single advantage to the Japan job at this point to be honest you can consider future employment opportunities in Japan after two years at the NYC joint since it sounds like you'll be better positioned then
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Jan 4, 2019 14:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i don't see a single advantage to the Japan job at this point to be honest The advantages to Japan are the location (I really loved living in Japan) and the job atmosphere (a little more relaxed, a little more of a team feeling). They're two pretty big plusses to me, but there's a whole lot of minuses to go with them. mmm11105 fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 15:10
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you loved living in japan for four months and super relaxed isn't what you want as your out-of-college role that will set the stage for the rest of your career
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Jan 4, 2019 15:29
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I find it hilarious that "job likely to be around later" is white on the NYC side and "company may not be around later" is green in Japan. Your heart wants Japan but the brain says "NYC you idiot its a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS with more opportunity later" You can visit Japan a shitload of times with a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS a year. Just sayin'.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:54
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Bank posted:I find it hilarious that "job likely to be around later" is white on the NYC side and "company may not be around later" is green in Japan. Your heart wants Japan but the brain says "NYC you idiot its a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS with more opportunity later" Yeah, but I can't visit Japan a shitload of times with the amount of vacation time I get there. But yeah, it's definitely a heart vs mind battle - my heart thinks back to how happy I was for my four months there and how much I miss it now and wants to get that back, by brain says that the NY offer is rationally better on just about every metric.
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Jan 16, 2019 21:37
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NYC is the right decision imo. It's awesome here and $250k goes a really long way even though this is a very expensive city. You'll never run out of things to do here and you can afford to travel anywhere in the world you want to go. Plus I think it will be better for your resume to work for a known company rather than a tiny team. Living in Japan isn't worth $75k a year, especially when you're still so young and have pleeeenty of time to travel.
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Jan 17, 2019 00:54
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NYC is absolutely the right decision. You're young, and to have a reputable firm as your first job is a Big loving Deal. Early career turns to mid-career in the blink of an eye, and clout counts for a lot when you're negotiating for what you want at your next job. The salary differential doesn't hurt either. Go to Japan a couple times a year with the extra money you make.
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Jan 17, 2019 01:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:you loved living in japan for four months and super relaxed isn't what you want as your out-of-college role that will set the stage for the rest of your career
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Jan 17, 2019 16:34
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Lol just read your spreadsheet, you think you're going to get mugged like it's 1980s NYC. Also lol at "literally everybody I know and also a bunch of people I don't know are telling me to take the NYC job, hmm but maybe everybody is wrong" Also lol at someone with anxiety thinking that they are more likely to go out and socialize in a language they don't know.
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Jan 17, 2019 16:44
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Make hay while the sun is shining, motherfucker.
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Jan 17, 2019 16:49
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:You are a college senior about to make 250k out of the gate? 
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Jan 17, 2019 23:44
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OP, take the job in Japan so I can feel less poor.
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Jan 18, 2019 00:24
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moana posted:Also lol at someone with anxiety thinking that they are more likely to go out and socialize in a language they don't know. It's strange, but I kind of did - I found myself going out to socialize more living in Tokyo then when I did in New York - though that might just be because being "the foreigner" let me control things more, since people for the most part wouldn't bother me unless I initiated it.
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Jan 19, 2019 19:10
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OP, I lived in NYC for several years immediately after graduation and it was an incredible experience. NYC is super safe, huge, and full of opportunities. You may currently feel comfortable with the idea of living in Tokyo, but in Japan you’ll always be a foreigner whereas eventually in NYC you’ll become a New Yorker and you’ll be able to feel like you belong.
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Jan 19, 2019 19:29
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I can second NYC being awesome. I spent five years being a Lawn Guylander (Queens) and love the hell out of the city.
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Jan 19, 2019 21:12
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NYC sucks rear end and smells like piss but it’s a quarter million dollars and a blue ribbon firm for the resume.
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Jan 20, 2019 02:04
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The prop trading world is an amazing/hellish rollercoaster ride. Just go in eyes open about your expected hours, particularly as a dev-quant. Also, pay attention to how hard the large prop firms are contracting + merging with one another recently.
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Jan 23, 2019 10:02
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jbusbysack posted:The prop trading world is an amazing/hellish rollercoaster ride. Just go in eyes open about your expected hours, particularly as a dev-quant. I've worked for both of these firms - hours are sane are both, generally 8-9hr days in Tokyo as a dev-quant, 9hr days in New York as a pure dev (but you get provided breakfast). Occasionally something is on fire and the days are longer. NY firm is expanding pretty quickly at the moment - lots of hiring. Tokyo firm has no desire to he huge, they've been a profitable operation of about 10 employees for the last 10 years.
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Jan 23, 2019 15:39
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The NY place flew me out to visit to talk teams with them, see where I'd be placed if I took the job. Pretty much reaffirmed what I already knew. The work there is definitely more technically complicated and specialized, I'd get to work on some very technically interesting projects, at the expense of a little less variety and less exposure to the business as a whole. New York is as I remember, interesting but annoying from a livability perspective, trains are still always late, spend an hour and half stuck in traffic on the highway in a Lyft trying to get to the airport, which is all delayed because of political nonsense. Spoke with the tech manager there, he said he doesn't see any reason why they wouldn't be willing offer me a position again in a couple of years if I want to go elsewhere in the meantime, unless something happens that makes them cut hiring. Also made the suggestion that I could just take some of the signing bonus and spend a month or two in Japan before starting - though it's not quite the same, I generally enjoy living in places more than just tourism, you get a break from the touristing during the week and get to see a different side of things. By the end of my day of meetings there I had mostly talked myself into taking the NY job, but as I'm waiting for my plane back I find myself starting to drift back the other way.
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Jan 26, 2019 02:09
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mmm11105 posted:By the end of my day of meetings there I had mostly talked myself into taking the NY job, but as I'm waiting for my plane back I find myself starting to drift back the other way.
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Jan 26, 2019 02:59
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We're getting pretty close to BFC-Goon In Well, I think. Even if you end up hating the NYC job in a few years, it's almost certainly going to be the better choice for your overall career. Please don't kneecap your lifetime future earnings because anime waifus. I'm kidding about the waifus. I hope.
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Jan 26, 2019 04:47
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Sundae posted:I'm kidding about the waifus. I hope. I think at this point it's really the only explanation here
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Jan 26, 2019 04:49
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mmm11105 posted:It's strange, but I kind of did - I found myself going out to socialize more living in Tokyo then when I did in New York - though that might just be because being "the foreigner" let me control things more, since people for the most part wouldn't bother me unless I initiated it. This makes me worried you're subconsciously drawn to the culture divide obfuscating anxiety-triggers.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:24
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mmm11105 posted:... annoying from a livability perspective ... spend an hour and half stuck in traffic on the highway in a Lyft trying to get to the airport, which is all delayed because of political nonsense... I've traveled to Japan twice and I am seriously in awe of their train system. But do you really anticipate regular trips to the airport - so many that they impact your every-day life - if you ended up living in NYC? Would you be commuting via train or subway? Are both poo poo? Maybe, if all the input in this thread still has you undecided, maybe, maybe you'll be happier in Tokyo.?
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Jan 26, 2019 05:40
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Go to Japan OP the world needs fewer 1%'ers
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Jan 26, 2019 05:51
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If you're hemming and hawing, follow the money. When I moved from Boston to Seattle, I was decisive. Had cultural, economic and geographic factors in mind. Could rattle them off. Easy choice. If NYC stresses you out a whole bunch, know this: NYC has world-class therapists and mud spas.
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Jan 26, 2019 05:57
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theHUNGERian posted:I've traveled to Japan twice and I am seriously in awe of their train system. But do you really anticipate regular trips to the airport - so many that they impact your every-day life - if you ended up living in NYC? Would you be commuting via train or subway? Are both poo poo? It's just reflective of the general quality of life differences - Tokyo is an incredibly convenient place to live, you can get around everywhere quickly and (more importantly) reliably, there's nature accessible by train ride, etc. Whereas when I lived in NY, anytime I actually went out to do something on the weekend it seemed like I wasted half my day waiting for subway trains to actually arrive, or stuck in traffic on buses because there's no train in running in the right direction - which led to me doing a lot less. This was even more turn on weeknights - in NY I just about always went straight home from work and did nothing much during my nights - between the amount of time sucked up trying to get places and the lack of availability of fast, reasonably healthy and well-priced food it was just too much of a pain to do much. Whereas in Tokyo I was doing things most nights since it was just so convenient to do so, and there were so many great things to do - I miss the little free jazz bar I visited there quite a bit, even if the lady who owned the place did chain smoke while running the bar all night. Though maybe at some point I'd grow tired of the things doable at night in Tokyo - hard to tell for sure. I'd probably be taking the subway in to work - unsure where in NY I'd want to live yet, either somewhere in the the Lower West Side of Manhattan or Brooklyn in the vicinity of Prospect Park. Could also rent in Battery Park City near work, but then it's absolutely dead on nights and weekends.
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Jan 26, 2019 16:15
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mmm11105 posted:It's just reflective of the general quality of life differences - Tokyo is an incredibly convenient place to live, you can get around everywhere quickly and (more importantly) reliably, there's nature accessible by train ride, etc. Whereas when I lived in NY, anytime I actually went out to do something on the weekend it seemed like I wasted half my day waiting for subway trains to actually arrive, or stuck in traffic on buses because there's no train in running in the right direction - which led to me doing a lot less. This was even more turn on weeknights - in NY I just about always went straight home from work and did nothing much during my nights - between the amount of time sucked up trying to get places and the lack of availability of fast, reasonably healthy and well-priced food it was just too much of a pain to do much. Whereas in Tokyo I was doing things most nights since it was just so convenient to do so, and there were so many great things to do - I miss the little free jazz bar I visited there quite a bit, even if the lady who owned the place did chain smoke while running the bar all night. Though maybe at some point I'd grow tired of the things doable at night in Tokyo - hard to tell for sure. If all the things that you want to do are a chore to reach in NYC, then your quality of life will suck indeed. Have you looked really hard to see if there is anything within easy reach that would keep you entertained on evenings/weekends? If so, and you still come up empty, then I guess Tokyo has a lot going in your favor.
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Jan 26, 2019 18:45
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theHUNGERian posted:If all the things that you want to do are a chore to reach in NYC, then your quality of life will suck indeed. Have you looked really hard to see if there is anything within easy reach that would keep you entertained on evenings/weekends? If so, and you still come up empty, then I guess Tokyo has a lot going in your favor. I guess it depends on the activity. I like to cook, which is probably equally a pain in both places - Tokyo because of the tiny kitchens in apartments there and New York because getting to a from a decent grocery store is often a pain (at least it was when I was last there). Good food is available in both, though for a lot of my favourite food in NY I found myself having to trek out to the rear end end of Queens which is a real pain. I love hiking, which is way easier to do on the weekends in Tokyo, there are lots of beautiful trails and mountains in easy reach by the train network, which is definitely not true in NY (when I was there last I found myself walking the same paths in Prospect Park a lot). I also really like to just wander cities, which Tokyo is ideal for - it is super walkable, has tons of near little side streets and alleyways, lots of very different feeling sections, and is so safe you have no worries about just walking down random alleys to see where it leads. New York is weirdly bad for this, Manhattan is pretty boring since it's, 90% chain shops and office buildings, and the other boroughs are overly spread out and therefore annoying to walk. I'm also into design, especially Japanese design, which gave me lots of interesting exhibitions and the like to look at in Tokyo. EDIT: I guess it comes down to that the four months j spent in Japan we're the happiest four months of my life. Part of me wants to try to recapture that, the other part worries that it's can't be recaptured and I'd be throwing away a great opportunity to try. mmm11105 fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jan 26, 2019 |
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Jan 26, 2019 19:03
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bro you are absurd. here are your problems with living in new york: 1) hard to live by a grocery. mother fucker you are going to make two hundred fifty thousand us dollars a year you can afford to live on top of a grocery store 2) you like the food in Queens. yes the food in queens is boss. live in queens, then 4) no nature nearby. similar to Tokyo, you can take all manner of commuter trains to some nature. or rent a car on the weekends and drive up to the Catskills, Taconics, Berkshires, etc. you are gonna be making a lot of money so you can afford to spend $150/week getting out of the city 3) new york is not walkable. at this point i'm convinced you are retarded. just move to japan, america is already full of idiots and we don't need another one.
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Jan 26, 2019 20:14
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:bro you are absurd. here are your problems with living in new york: yeah i have no clue what he's talking about. Grocery stores are literally everywhere, lol. If the food you like is in the rear end-end of queens, I assume you mean Indian/Pakistani/Chinese - good luck finding any of that food in Japan. Also, what do you mean you're "into design"? Design of what? NY would be the capital for most "design" things, but who knows what you mean, unless you mean anime design.
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Jan 26, 2019 20:23
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you could also just ask jane street if you could work in their hong kong or london offices if you hate new york that much. it sounds like you'd enjoy hong kong joining a no name tokyo prop shop that still only has 10 employees ten years in when the alternative is jane street is absurd to the point i suspect this whole thread is a fakepost
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Jan 26, 2019 21:03
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mmm11105 posted:I guess it depends on the activity. I like to cook, which is probably equally a pain in both places - Tokyo because of the tiny kitchens in apartments there and New York because getting to a from a decent grocery store is often a pain (at least it was when I was last there). Good food is available in both, though for a lot of my favourite food in NY I found myself having to trek out to the rear end end of Queens which is a real pain. I love hiking, which is way easier to do on the weekends in Tokyo, there are lots of beautiful trails and mountains in easy reach by the train network, which is definitely not true in NY (when I was there last I found myself walking the same paths in Prospect Park a lot). I also really like to just wander cities, which Tokyo is ideal for - it is super walkable, has tons of near little side streets and alleyways, lots of very different feeling sections, and is so safe you have no worries about just walking down random alleys to see where it leads. New York is weirdly bad for this, Manhattan is pretty boring since it's, 90% chain shops and office buildings, and the other boroughs are overly spread out and therefore annoying to walk. I'm also into design, especially Japanese design, which gave me lots of interesting exhibitions and the like to look at in Tokyo. You will have $250k a year. That money can be exchanged for services - food delivery for example.
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Jan 26, 2019 21:15
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quote:You will have $250k a year. That money can be exchanged for services - food delivery for example. Yep - reminder that Peapod exists and will literally drop food at your door for like $8 + a tip for the driver. quote:I guess it comes down to that the four months j spent in Japan we're the happiest four months of my life Hoo boy. If we're not in fakepost mode, good lord you're making a mistake in your value comparison here. Pardon the awkward question, so just gonna put it out there: Are you a Japanese-American? Do you speak Japanese with native fluency? If you're not, I really, really suggest that you go talk to longer-term expats to Japan who are also not Japanese. Anything works for four months, but two years in you have a good chance of feeling differently. I think you've overlooked some very, very important social aspects of long-term residence in Japan as a foreigner. Please go talk to some people who have done it and get a variety of takes. Speaking as someone who has done the whole "foreigner working in a foreign country" thing, I don't think you've done all your homework.
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Jan 26, 2019 22:57
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I'm not convinced this isn't a very elaborate fake post thing. The guy makes little sense. But if it's true and it's that easy to land these offers post-college with the right project portfolio, goddamn. There are just too many little things that seem not to add up am I wrong?
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Jan 26, 2019 23:19
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Something Offal posted:I'm not convinced this isn't a very elaborate fake post thing. The guy makes little sense. But if it's true and it's that easy to land these offers post-college with the right project portfolio, goddamn. There are just too many little things that seem not to add up am I wrong? At 18 years, the average student needs a hall pass (or at the very least permission from an adult) in order to go use the bathroom. OP is only 4 years older, so I would not expect them to be able to make this decision easily, especially since they have spent quality time in Japan.
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Jan 27, 2019 00:13
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