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I really like Tom King's personality. I seriously wish that every writer in the industry had his personality. His writing, on the other hand, I would only wish on a very select few of my worst enemies.
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Jan 4, 2019 02:31
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I'm not jumping on any bandwagons here. I have been saying since Omega Men that I don't understand why people like that book. All it does is depower and mischaracterize Kyle Rayner up and down the street for the sake of gratuitous navel-gazing about misery and suffering and let's be honest about that sounding super familiar to everyone at this point since it's literally King's one and only trick and that's been apparent since 2015 at the least. And I don't mean to say that he's not, in general, quite good at writing about gratuitous misery and suffering. His writing always feels evocative and effective. But if gratuitous misery and suffering is the only thing that he's going to do...if that's the only thing that he can do...then I stand by what I said about not wanting anyone else to write like he does.
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Jan 4, 2019 20:09
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On the subject of not-stupid comics, Wonder Woman was fantastic this week and retroactively made me enjoy the earlier issues more and really excited about what Wilson has coming up next here. It's clear that the more she writes this, the better a handle she has on it all. There's just a ton in here that I enjoy. I like that Wilson is taking the time to re-establish the Olympian gods to the WW status quo in a way that's actually workable. I also really like Diana's interactions with Ares here; we've seen so many permutations of it through the years...he's the great big evil thing she has to defeat, or he's the sly devil at her shoulder, or he's her mentor and flat-out ally...and it's just kind of nice to see that, even after all this time, there's still ways to make their dynamic fresh and interesting and yet somehow something that feels familiar to all of the above incarnations combined. Finally, enough credit cannot go to Xermanico, the artist, and the colorist Romulo Fajardo. Like, I'm sorry to Cary Nord or whatever, but the first three issues were kind of miserable to read under his pen and the difference between those and these recent two were greater than night and day. It's kind of irritating that they're gone for the next two issues to be replaced by...two other rotating artists...but it's understandable with this being one of the few bi-weekly series we have left.
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Jan 16, 2019 11:53
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enigmahfc posted:Everyone knew Jon would get aged up, but now suddenly people are all, 'gently caress you Bendis! You did the exact thing we knew you would be doing for for like the past 6 months and has been confirmed by previews and everything!"
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Jan 16, 2019 19:47
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Also read Justice League Dark because it's really gnarly and entertaining.
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Jan 16, 2019 22:05
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If we as a species still can't see that King's one and only schtick is tired and obnoxious at this point, I feel that we can at the very least agree that "working through your issues" only gets someone so much leeway when it comes to writing mainstream fiction about cartoon characters.
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Jan 21, 2019 13:44
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I've been complaining about King since the very first book I've read from him so y'all can continue to sit right down with this whole ooh it's the new hip trendy thing to hate on King! distraction tactic that keeps popping up. The only difference between now and 2016 is that the more he writes, the more evident his problems become, the more people are reading these problems that weren't super glaring when he was simply writing niche titles about niche things. If someone is writing the most hyped event comic right now and and it loving sucks rear end, that person is going to get more negative press for some reason, how very strange. People here have bitched the hell out of writers like Johns and Loeb dealing with the death of their family through their writing, and the way that they've dealt with it has only ever been maudlin or overwrought. King, on the other hand, is about one fictional corpse away from becoming the official snuff porn aficionado at Marvel or DC, but oh no he gets an extra super duper special case of being above reproach because he's like just so like deep man like c'mon. Hey, if his kind of writing is going to keep having pretensions of high-brow profundity, then it's going to get the exact same kind of scrutiny that other so-called deep and meaningful works do, because obviously everyone knows that maturity just means violence and misery, duh. So let's do it. Let's have an honest discussion about the implications of murdering the most well-known female comic book character of all time over and over and over again on a book sold next to the Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Let's debate the pros and cons of shooting Lois Lane in the face, lasering her in the throat, burning her at the stake, having her eaten by sharks in order to show that her husband is worried about her and stuff. Let's share out thoughts about the imagery of victimization, violence, and gratuity that's being attached to this prototypical female comic book character in order to evoke the exact sentiments that this story is trying to evoke in us. You go first, white-knighters. Sell me on this book.
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Jan 22, 2019 03:46
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Madkal posted:Just don't read it then. And just to thwart the forthcoming "talk about what you like!" reversal, I also talk about comics I like all the time. Never seems to get the same sort of reaction as when I talk even the tiniest bit of smack about a comic, though.
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Jan 22, 2019 08:36
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Roth posted:Maybe people don't want to have a discussion with people that think "I don't get where the hate for Tom King comes from, and I don't think this bad one invalidates the comics from him I thought were good" equates out to people defending Lois Lane getting murdered for 12 pages. I just don't know what it is with this specific thread that you people get the over-inflated need to shut all criticism towards anything as if being ticked at comics is this bizarre intrusive concept that threatens your pristine forums utopia. Okay, so no writing is ever bad, nothing is ever inappropriate, everything in DC Comics is just fine and great and perfect from now until forever! Now how about that latest issue of Doomsday Clock, eh?? Newsflashfact: you're not a cooler comic book reader just because you're not as attached to this universe enough to complain about bad writing. No one is handing out gold stars here on these dead gay forums for being the exact rightest best kind of nerd. And...just to recap, my one and original complaint about the Wal-Mart special that I made last night was, roughly, "King still only has one tired shtick, and comic books really aren't the best place for him to work through those issues." That's it. That's...that was it. And apparently even that tiny little bit of a takedown was just way too scathing towards the poor little defenseless snuff comic for everyone to take.
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Jan 22, 2019 10:16
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ElNarez posted:I can't defend a book I haven't read, but I feel like I can at least debate you on your premises, most specifically this one: what's wrong with having violence and misery in comic books, especially when said violence and misery is here as an obstacle for heroic characters to rise above? The imagery itself, tame as it is when compared to some of the stuff DC has published in the past, might not be appropriate for the context of a Wal-Mart exclusive comic, but the impression I get from your post is one of raw anger at the idea of bad things happening to Lois Lane, even when that's just an illustration of Superman's fears. There's obviously a historical context of hosed up things being done to women for the sake of fiction to consider, but I feel like your problem is with having violence and misery in the first place, as if any comic with those was just snuff porn with pretentions of profundity, to paraphrase you. I think superhero stories, as vehicles for sorta-aspirational escapism, can, and to some extent should, be able to deal with violence and misery. I think there's room out there for stories showing that Superman is just as hosed up and afraid as the rest of us, and that there can be something heroic in dealing with those feelings in order to do good in the world. If I'm in the mood for stories where he rescues a kitten from a tree and nothing else happens, I'm pretty sure those stories are already out there. And so, the question we're forced to ask ourselves becomes "does the depiction of violence and misery, in and of themselves and for the sole sake of depicting violence and misery, make a story good?" And the answer I've consistently arrived at through the years is "no." No, your story is not good just because it is dark. No, the fact that your story is dark does not inherently make it more mature, more intelligent, or more valuable. All it is is dark. Of course, there are good stories that are also dark, but their value does not derive from their darkness. If the only thing that your story has to say is that things are dark and sad and then life is over and there's no escape from that, it's really not that much more interesting or valuable than a story where only positive happy things ever happen. (As an addendum to the above note about King's characters not actually rising above the darkness and just pretty much succumbing to it all the time: one thing that sticks out about his modus operandi is that he'll frequently depower or just flat-out change a character in order so that they will end up defeated or otherwise unable to deal with the problems they encounter. In King's universe, heroes do lose, but they seem to lose because King himself is bending power levels and characterization to whatever degree, sometimes past the breaking point, so that they will lose. This was really apparent to me in his depiction of Kyle Rayner in Omega Men and continues to be apparent in his depiction of Booster Gold in HiC. Again: if you have to intentionally lessen these superheroes in order to tell the "valuable" story of them losing and being sad about it, you're not actually telling me anything valuable about these characters...instead, all I've learned is that you'll write them out of character in order to serve your tragic tale. What little value we might have had with a story examining the question of "What if this character had to deal with this serious issue?" is tossed straight down the chute because you're not actually writing the character.) (It's a problem I'm having with Doomsday Clock as well...though we digress) Now...all of that may not pertain 100% to Superman Giant #7. The only notion we have so far of that story is some second-hand accounts and selected imagery...which include repeated and graphic depictions of a popular female character's victimization-slash-murder -- over and over and over again, literally filling up page after page of the book -- in order to make a male character feel bad. That's its own bag of shite and I think we're all fairly cognizant of why that alone, in and of itself, is just really tasteless and inappropriate even without me having to go into the whole thing. But in regards to your specific question of "Why shouldn't a comic book be able to deal with violence and misery?"...sure, they're totally allowed to do that. And they can still suck even if they do. I'm not opposed to violence or misery or graphic content in comic books, but I believe we can all agree that those things alone aren't gonna make your bad ideas good, your tasteless ideas tasteful, and your out-of-character scenes suddenly in-character again. And if violence and misery are the only things you are able or willing to write in this great big fictive universe with its limitless breadths of genres and concepts and relationships and history, then I think it'd be really easy to make the argument that you're a pretty narrow writer and probably unqualified to be taking the lead on so many of these characters.
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Jan 22, 2019 13:02
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It's kind of a strange hybrid of Morrison-esque JLA with the DCAU version of JL. It...mostly?...works? It plays with big ideas like THIS ORB CONTAINS THE ESSENCE OF THE UNIVERSE ITSELF or something and it's like, do you actually have any idea what you're doing here my dude? And then however many issues later, whether he has any idea is still kinda up in the air.  But I've enjoyed it more than not. Snyder clearly loves these characters and their voices and personalities come across really well. If you've looked at No Justice, it's mostly just a continuation of that.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:39
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I'm at work rn and can't really yak but I just gotta say I'm real tickled that the cover of WW this week just flat-out depicts...well, "female-presenting nipples" pretty much just...right on there for all to see,  but I guess no one noticed because they were attached to a minotaur.
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Jan 31, 2019 00:49
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I was a little disappointed that Metal, which was overall obsessed with connecting all of DC minutiae together into one giant continuity porn extravaganza that just so happened to feature Hawkman very prominently, never once leaned into the tidbit that the current Dream is literally Hawkman's grandson. Speaking of which, I got caught up with Hawkman recently and it's actually enjoyable enough to go on my pull list. It's a pretty introspective series that focuses on Carter Hall as an explorer and scholar instead of the weird annoying barbarian that he's usually typecast as. It's also basically using Hawkman's past lives to explore every fantastical element and setting of the DCU which is entirely my jam. It falls a...liiittle bit into doing the whole "Now here's Hawkman's real actual forreals truest most secret actual origin finally revealed, only it doesn't even end up being all that interesting anyway!" thing that a lot of books can't seem to help but fall into, but that's kind of a footnote and not the actual focus of the book. Bryan Hitch is also...like, good here and not doing the weird melty face thing he was doing in the N52 JL series. For anyone who's interested, I'd actually start with the most recent issue, #8, which is about Carter meeting a version of himself who was a professor on Krypton...while Krypton was about to explode.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:06
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Madkal posted:I always wanted a Hawkman series that just explored history of the world using a Hawkman stand in. Him and his wife are supposed t be repeatedly reincarnated so why not have some Hawkman stuff that takes place in Victorian England, or 17th Century China, or ancient Rome etc? But I do like the way that the current series has set it up, where he actually reincarnates across all time and space irrespective of chronology. There could be a version of Hawkman on Daxam in the year 3029 who is actually a previous incarnation of the one who lived in Britain as the Silent Knight. There could be another version of him right now who is actually him from several lifetimes down the line. It's all weird and complicated which means I'm real into it. Heck, it actually explains a lot of what's been happening with Kendra and Shiera in Justice League. Speaking of which, I really enjoyed the JL Annual last week as well. It's great to see all these major forces of the DCU working together to solve big problems, even if they fail real bad and end up getting the whole universe pretty ticked off at the JL. Also this was like...the first time Kyle Rayner has interacted with the rest of the League, much less gone on a mission with them, since...gently caress, I don't even know? Like, pre-Blackest Night at the latest? Maybe even as far back as GL: Rebirth? Goodbye, era of writers having Kyle mill about randomly in outer space away the core mainline JL characters 'cuz DC has to keep pretending that Hal Jordan is the only one who gets marketing! Hello, comics that acknowledge and perpetuate Kyle's epic history with the JL! Finally, WW #62 was a great delight as well. I'll admit it, for the first couple of issues of Wilson's run I was really just thinking, "Where is all this actually going?" but, the more she writes, the stronger that her personal "voice" comes across in these events and the more I'm understanding what her direction for this series is going to end up looking like. All in all I'd consider this issue a pretty good jumping on point for anyone wondering what's being going on in this book. Spoiler alert: she brought back Ferdinand! 
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Feb 5, 2019 06:22
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Man. The scene between Wonder Girl and Zeus in this week's YJ was written so well and captures Cassie's personality perfectly. It's the sort of scene that can only come about from someone who's really followed this character and has a great appreciation for her. Too bad it also makes no sense at all with Cassie's rebooted history and is pretty much indicative of how much the N52 retcons continue to gently caress over the overall Wonder Woman canon, even today. Because this conversation just doesn't carry any weight at all with Zeus as Cassie's grandfather instead of her father. It just doesn't. It was clearly, originally written as if Zeus was speaking to her as a father, but then an editor told Bendis "Hey guess what, we completely railroaded that massive aspect of her history" and then he just had to replace the nouns after that fact. And an estranged grandfather is just not the same as an estranged father...like, again, it just isn't. The whole thing with him telling Cassie that she's so much like her mother would've been a great sentiment coming from her actual estranged father but like...who gives a turd if her estranged father's father thinks that? He doesn't know her mom! She's just someone his son got knocked up! And then the whole part with him going on about Cassie being the future of the pantheon just comes across so flippin' awkward when Diana...who is his actual daughter in this current hellscape of a mythos...is just flying about right now doing her thing. God, if only Bendis had just gone ahead and ignored all that N52 nonsense and just made Cassie Zeus' daughter, this would all be cleared up straightaway. What was stopping you, Brian! It's not as if you let silly things like continuity get in the way of your writing before now! 
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Feb 6, 2019 23:24
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I feel like we've had to have heard Superman breaking the jaws of a god at least a couple times by this point though.
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Feb 11, 2019 18:37
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Yeah, Shazam is turning out to be a really great read. The whole powers split amongst Billy's foster family thing felt a bit, like, "ehh sure? do whatever" when it first came about, but it's turning out to be a fantastic setup for this series. Honestly though, at this point I think they should just give in and rename him Captain Thunder or whatever. Shazam is just not an easy name fit for the character, much less the group, and it's had years and years to settle in at this point.
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Feb 28, 2019 04:25
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Is that Guy Gardner in the page with John and Hal and Jessica? HiC nonsense averted? If the actual explanation for "why have none of the DC heroes been dealing with the poo poo in Doomsday Clock" is going to be "they were just in space and stuff" I stg I will whine about it so much
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Mar 5, 2019 22:59
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Cocks notwithstanding, things actually happened in this issue so I didn't hate it!
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Mar 7, 2019 06:51
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I mean bats are great so I actually can't think of any way this could go horribly wrong. 
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Mar 8, 2019 00:31
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frameset posted:Regarding Naomi 3:
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Mar 21, 2019 21:16
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There's a lot of fun stuff with Diana and Giganta in WW this week. I don't know if Wilson realizes it or not, but she's continuing this cool trend over the years where WW's enemies will just...like, throw up their hands, say "gently caress it," and team up with her at the end of the day. It's happened over and over, more for WW than I can think of for any other leading hero. There was a time throughout the nineties where WW was just lowsy with former foes turning up to fight on her side, and even the N52 had the big thing where she befriended the previously unfriendable Hera. Diana's "thing," despite what someone like Geoff Johns might think, is not that she doesn't have a lot of villains because she deals with them lethally. It's that she doesn't have a lot of villains because she ends up actually redeeming a whole lot of them. I mean...that is, until Johns decides that they just want Giganta to be his generic menacing villain again and turns her into a monosyllabic brute as is currently happening in Doomsday Clock. Anyway. The rest of the issue is...I'm a little unsure where we're going with this thing with Maggie and Damon? The satyr? I mean, Wilson...knows what satyrs are, right? Which. Look. I love satyrs. They're one of my favorite mythological things with tons of cool lore and mythic resonance. They are also.......uh...the nicest way to say might be mega pervy chuds, so, choosing to portray an idyllic young romance between one of these guys and your new ingenue OC is......unexpected, in a word. I'm just not sure where we're planning to go with this.
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Mar 28, 2019 03:57
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Man, these last two issues of Hawkman have been so great. Bryan Hitch is at his best, and what is it with Venditti getting me to fall for these generoic squarejawed "boring" heroes? This has definitely been one of my favorite books recently, and this arc in particular has been supremely satisfying. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to describe the events of this book without spoiling the great parts. The best I can put it is...well, the thing that Carter does here? Would make for a drat sweet ultimate move in a video game or something.
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Apr 11, 2019 05:04
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So like ... I don't really know how to say this politely but...what exactly is King's...credentials...for writing about trauma and counseling and recovery? I know it's not as if you need to be a doctor to write a story about hospitals, but...for some reason the, like, comics community at large seemed to suddenly agree that Tom King is in any way qualified to be making any statements whatsoever about these sorts of very delicate issues and it's like.................... ........why?
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Apr 24, 2019 05:22
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Cassa posted:Also has the speed force ever been described as functioning this way, by anyone? edit: BrianWilly posted:As an addendum to the above note about King's characters not actually rising above the darkness and just pretty much succumbing to it all the time: one thing that sticks out about his modus operandi is that he'll frequently depower or just flat-out change a character in order so that they will end up defeated or otherwise unable to deal with the problems they encounter. In King's universe, heroes do lose, but they seem to lose because King himself is bending power levels and characterization to whatever degree, sometimes past the breaking point, so that they will lose. BrianWilly posted:if you have to intentionally lessen these superheroes in order to tell the "valuable" story of them losing and being sad about it, you're not actually telling me anything valuable about these characters...instead, all I've learned is that you'll write them out of character in order to serve your tragic tale. What little value we might have had with a story examining the question of "What if this character had to deal with this serious issue?" is tossed straight down the chute because you're not actually writing the character.
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Apr 24, 2019 11:43
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I think we're one just more "I still like Tom King, but...!" post away from a bingo card. And like, I'm sorry, I don't want King to be getting death threats but I am neither surprised nor will I lose any sleep about it? Non-white, female, and queer creators have been receiving far worse than that for years upon decades on the internet for merely existing, so for degenerates to snipe at Tom King because he wrote the most mind-bogglingly lovely comic in recent memory is like...whatever. Anyway. Tynion's depiction of Circe in JL Dark always gives me life, fills me with much needed energy in these trying times. I love that he depicted her in her classic Perez look during the flashback with Zatara. I love it when writers play around with metafiction like that, make it seem like the DCU has a persistent history that adds to its personality. Also, an extra year is added to my lifetime any time Xermanico draws an issue of Wonder Woman.
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Apr 24, 2019 23:57
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Eisner Award Winner Heroes in Crisis
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Apr 27, 2019 00:14
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How many bad books is King going to write before people finally stop giving him opportunities to do so?
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May 16, 2019 00:59
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I dunno how *~unpopular~* this will be but if King really did propose something ridiculously controversial and out-of-character for Batman -- or for any other character -- then I'm glad someone up high actually did their job and told him "no" in clear certain terms. They should've done so plenty of times before, and not just for King. ...If this really happened of course.
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May 22, 2019 21:35
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Well I guess that answers my question!  BrianWilly posted:How many bad books is King going to write before people finally stop giving him opportunities to do so?
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May 23, 2019 21:44
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Of all the claptrap defenses of HiC, I didn't really expect "Everyone's talking about it so that must mean it did good!" to come from the writer himself. Anyway, Doomsday Clock this week was actually quite interesting. The story itself absolutely has gone on for way too long, but I was glad this issue at least took the time to go over everything it needed to go over.
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May 29, 2019 21:53
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Jiro posted:I wonder if Doomsday Clock had actually been on time and not elongated/whatever, if this issue would be as interesting as you all are saying. Is it because they finally got to the fireworks factory, or it's just the thing that everyone knew was going to happen for like, 2 years is finally being explained? Or hey, or it's just Johns on his sixth-year attempt to make us forget that it was Barry Allen who hosed it all up. Whichever.
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May 30, 2019 03:15
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I'm enjoying that Wilson is actually doing something with the WW mythos and tying up loose ends that shoulda been tied up a long time ago, but so far there hasn't been a whole lot of epic, memorable moments or issues. It ain't exactly nothing enough to be filler, but it feels like we're still waiting for something truly important to happen.
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Jun 10, 2019 10:00
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Hawkman is one of the greatest unsung gems of DC Comics right now. Venditti keeps pulling off impossible feats with this book. I really wish inspirational writers like him and Snyder were the ones constantly getting the attention instead of your usual...not thems.
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Jun 14, 2019 10:01
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It feels like we're having three different conversations here, none of them very enlightening. Yes, Clark Kent probably needed a reason to not be in the military back when the draft was mandatory, but A) most readers 100% did not give a poo poo back then because Superman is a cartoon character and B) it looks like they came up with an explanation eventually anyway, so. Y'know. Great. Nowadays, we don't need any explanation for any characters not being enlisted. And it feels a little weird to be citing comics from the old days as some sort of precedence for tackling the issue because...well, it was a non-issue then and remains a non-issue now. And especially since the cited precedence ends up depicting that Superman wasn't ever enlisted so like...why is it relevant anyway? All in all it's just sort of a touchy matter because it sounds like someone going "Well hold up now y'all...look, noted literal crazy rear end in a top hat Frank Miller's idea of putting His Goddamn Superman into the armed forces is actually totes good and interesting because of this thing from the Silver Age" and it's like...nah. Nah, it still isn't.
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Jun 18, 2019 03:47
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Rucka didn't wish away the Superbro/Wonder Woman bangathon. In WW#9, he directly referenced the fact that his WW still hella banged that guy. The ultimate culprit who did away with the SuperWonder banging was Tomasi himself (with help from Jurgens), through the Reborn storyline which made it so that Clark and Lois had always been together all this time. It's not that complicated y'all 
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Jun 18, 2019 06:57
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I would be entirely unsurprised if Johns had just forgotten about Pandora at this point.
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Jun 30, 2019 04:58
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You'd think that readers might wise up to "What if thing you know...but grim and dark????" as a narrative device at some point, and yet here we still are. edit: Fraction's Jimmy Olsen is amazing y'all BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jul 18, 2019 |
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Jul 18, 2019 05:36
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One of the central conceits behind the Lois Lane series right now is simultaneously hilarious and biting and insightful and yet completely ridiculous all at once. Basically someone caught a photo of Lois, who's publicly married to Clark Kent, kissing Superman. Instead of assuming that Clark Kent and Superman are the same person so that Lois is just, y'know, kissing her husband, the world at large instead goes right to the assumption that Lois is a tramp who is cheating on her poor ol' incel of a spouse with chadly Superman instead. Also, 100% of the blame is being leveled at Lois instead of Superman. It absolutely pushes the "no one thinks Superman and Clarke Kent are the same person" concept to the breaking point and beyond, but I just love that this is simply how the DC Universe...works.
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Aug 9, 2019 04:37
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Well the thing here is that...it's Rucka, so the entire rest of the book is, like, this ultra-gritty crime drama with back alley murders and political intrigue and bar stakeouts etc. And then we get to the parts about Lois' private life and it suddenly operates on completely-self-aware silver age logic. I'm not ragging it at all btw. It's great.
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Aug 9, 2019 22:40
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