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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Warthur posted:

One of the things I've noticed about 2E is that if you switch all the optional rules to "off", what you have left is an awful lot like "B/X only with race and class separated out". The extensive optional rules put a figleaf on this (or rather, disorganisedly dump a bag full of fig leaves over it - Jef's points about 2E's organisation remain true), but it's still evident.

Part of that is probably because the 2E revision was done by Zeb Cook, who designed the "X" bit of B/X, but in his intro Zeb says that a lot of the revisions were done because they reflected the way lots of people actually played AD&D in practice, and there's at least anecdotal reason to believe that loads of people just muddled through AD&D using their knowledge of BX to fill in the gaps which were incomprehensible. This became very apparent in the early days of the Dragonsfoot forum - one of the first specific "Let's discuss old editions of games" places - where it became apparent that almost nobody did initiative the way that the 1E DMG says you should do initiative, because the 1E AD&D initiative system is an absurdly convoluted monster and most groups just defaulted to something resembling the B/X version because they figured that's what was intended in the first place.

This was totally a thing.

My very, very first AD&D game decades ago (in Dragonlance of all settings) we lifted the weaponmastery system and initiative out of the Rules Cyclopedia because it made better sense.

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Libertad!
Oct 30, 2013

You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Liquid Communism posted:

This was totally a thing.

My very, very first AD&D game decades ago (in Dragonlance of all settings) we lifted the weaponmastery system and initiative out of the Rules Cyclopedia because it made better sense.

Tell me more... :getin:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Libertad! posted:

Tell me more... :getin:

Initiative wise, it's simple.

Party and monsters each roll 1d6, higher of the two goes first.

Everyone on one side moves, then resolves attacks in order:

1. Missiles
2. Spells
3. Hand to hand combat.

Then the other side goes. Very wargame-y, but it let the players coordinate their turn and made mass combat a hell of a lot faster.


Weapon mastery is still the best feeling version of that system ever published for D&D to me. It worked a lot like weapon proficiencies in AD&D, but had cooler options. Characters got weapon choices based on 2+1 per 3 levels for non fighters or 4+1 per 3 for fighters, and could spend them to go between basic, Skilled, Expert, Master, and Grand Master with a weapon. I've also used these in later campaigns just straight replacing weapon profs 1:1.

Using a weapon you don't have Basic skill with means flat half damage. Each level above basic gives +2 to hit across the board, larger damage dice. and various other bonuses such as extended range on missile and throwing weapons, or an AC bonus against the first x attacks per round. Weapons also have special abilities based on their use, such as free second attacks with no offhand penalty if dual-wielding, knockout (for 1d100 rounds, on blackjacks), delay (which makes the opponent save vs. PPDM or lose initiative next round) or my very favorite Deflect.

quote:

Deflect: In addition to any attacks, the wielder of this weapon may attempt to deflect the
number of melee and thrown weapon attacks indicated in one round. To deflect each attack, the
character must make a saving throw vs. death
ray

A grandmaster with quarterstaff gets 4 deflects a round. This did a ton to make squishy casters more survivable, so the GM pulled zero punches on trying to kill them dead. From a player perspective it feels better too, as it makes melee more interactive than 'he hits my AC, I take x damage, next round'.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Dec 28, 2019

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
I wrote a school for Unknown Armies where you paint graffiti to steal semiotic power away from the businesses and governments that plaster our public spaces, and now it's plastered on the internet: Logomancy!



Wasn't sure where else to put the shameless plug these days, but there you have it.

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.
I wasn't sure where to put this but this came up in a discussion after a game and I just want to say I love the Stars Without Number "One Roll NPC" idea:



(It's not actually one roll but being able to grab an array of dice and get the wireframe of a new NPC that fast is awesome.)

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Nuns with Guns posted:

I wasn't sure where to put this but this came up in a discussion after a game and I just want to say I love the Stars Without Number "One Roll NPC" idea:



(It's not actually one roll but being able to grab an array of dice and get the wireframe of a new NPC that fast is awesome.)

Yeah it's pretty cool you could chuck a handful of dice and then have an answer

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Coolness Averted posted:

Yeah it's pretty cool you could chuck a handful of dice and then have an answer

SWN has additional ones for random patron generation, plus urban and wilderness encounters, but I really dig that the NPC tables are generic enough that you could repurpose them for pretty much any game you want

UnCO3
Feb 11, 2010

Ye gods!

College Slice


Just 32 hours or so left to buy my bundle of Supernatural Strangeness that contains my found-footage weird horror game The Cromlech Archives and my supernatural submarine tragedy map-game SONAR GHOSTS! Both are due to be updated early next year and both will come with a significant price bump, but if you buy in the next 32 hours you'll get both and any updates for as little as $4/20% off ($2.25/10% off individually). If you buy after the sale but before the updates then you'll still get all that, but at a slightly higher price ($2.50 each, no bundle price). Very close to hitting my target for this sale; any help would be much appreciated :v:

-



As well as the closing hours of my sale/bundle, I've just published From Sea to Shining Sea, my sci-fi Fear and Loathing-inspired game of gonzo journalism among the decadent and corrupt colonies of the near-ish future lunar landscape! It's my attempt to get across some of both the style and the substance of Hunter S. Thompson's works, though with probably a lot less depictions of vicious bigotry and genuinely terrible deeds (unless all players are on board). It's also minorly inspired by Diaries of a Spaceport Janitor, and mechanically it's a bit Powered by the Apocalypse/Belonging Outside Belonging-ish. It's my final submission to Ad Astra Jam on itch.io (games about feelings in space - in this case hope and fear, disappointment and yearning, nostalgia and anger, and more). Here's the itch blurb:

quote:

From Sea to Shining Sea is a GMless tabletop role-playing game for 2-4 players who're ready to open the dark heart of the future. You all play as freelance journalists (when you're not out doing gig and part-time jobs to pay rent) hired to cover a sporting event in the future, on the moon. It's bland mouthpiece reporting out here.

Moon colonies, moon highways, moon casinos. Corruption, depravity, poverty. Ostentatious wealth and media misdirection. The future was meant to be better than this, but it's not, and all you are gonna take a look at the failures and the underbelly of moon society and be honest about it all, while having a hell of a time good and bad.
It's currently priced at $10 (recommended price $12), has 10 community copies to start with (as usual, they'll be added at a rate of 1 per purchase), and, on top of that, 6 early bird copies that literally anyone can take, no questions asked! That aside, there are two screen versions of the text (light text on dark background and dark on light), a print-friendly black and white version, and a .txt version edited for text-to-speech apps (tested here). If you feel like giving me a signal boost on twitter, here's the launch there:

https://twitter.com/SpeaktheSky/status/1211646575967117312

Dr. Lunchables
Dec 27, 2012

IRL DEBUFFED KOBOLD



Well, 2019 was weird as poo poo, huh?

LashLightning
Feb 20, 2010

You know you didn't have to go post that, right?
But it's fine, I guess...

You just keep being you!

Green Stuff World isn't doing great - first there was the issue of Nazi imagery as part of one of their rollers (the SS black sun image) which they took ages to sort out, then they started refusing to sell to people with Chinese/Asian names, and now they've used YouTube's DMCA to take down a video review of a rival company's colour shifting paints, as both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints called Colorshift - Vallejo are now in the process of renaming their range to Shifters - but as far as I know, the vlogger involved doesn't have any more connection to either GSW or Vallejo than any other customer/consumer.

I could see action being taken between GSW and Vallejo, but attacking customers of Vallejo products - or trying to scrub the internet clean of any evidence that Vallejo's range was called the same as GSW's - is quite an over reaction!

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

LashLightning posted:

Green Stuff World isn't doing great - first there was the issue of Nazi imagery as part of one of their rollers (the SS black sun image) which they took ages to sort out, then they started refusing to sell to people with Chinese/Asian names, and now they've used YouTube's DMCA to take down a video review of a rival company's colour shifting paints, as both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints called Colorshift - Vallejo are now in the process of renaming their range to Shifters - but as far as I know, the vlogger involved doesn't have any more connection to either GSW or Vallejo than any other customer/consumer.

I could see action being taken between GSW and Vallejo, but attacking customers of Vallejo products - or trying to scrub the internet clean of any evidence that Vallejo's range was called the same as GSW's - is quite an over reaction!

I love when companies try to protect generic words as their ip

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Coolness Averted posted:

I love when companies try to protect generic words as their ip
It's so generic that despite the very clear phrasing "both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints called Colorshift" I still parsed the sentence as "both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints that shift colours"

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Splicer posted:

It's so generic that despite the very clear phrasing "both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints called Colorshift" I still parsed the sentence as "both GSW and Vallejo have a set of paints that shift colours"

Yeah that's how I keep parsing it too.
Reminds me of a company I worked for that actually tried to trademark 'breathe'

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
Someone in my gaming group took to reddit asking about the record for the largest single D&D game (single meaning adjucated by a single head GM, wherein the actions of any one party can influence other parties and the overall game itself) was set at a comic convention in Brazil, 2019. It had 750 concurrent players.

It's my understanding that both Paizo and WotC release suppliments intended to be played by many smaller parties simultaneously, in the same instance.

Zeerust
May 1, 2008

They must have guessed, once or twice - guessed and refused to believe - that everything, always, collectively, had been moving toward that purified shape latent in the sky, that shape of no surprise, no second chance, no return.
So I got the Lancer core book as a Kickstarter backer, and am I missing something, or does the book not actually give you a character sheet?

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Keep On Shroomin

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

Someone in my gaming group took to reddit asking about the record for the largest single D&D game (single meaning adjucated by a single head GM, wherein the actions of any one party can influence other parties and the overall game itself) was set at a comic convention in Brazil, 2019. It had 750 concurrent players.

It's my understanding that both Paizo and WotC release suppliments intended to be played by many smaller parties simultaneously, in the same instance.

I’ve done one of the Paizo modules that had around ~200 people playing. It was a lot of fun!

Flavivirus
Dec 14, 2011

The next stage of evolution.

Zeerust posted:

So I got the Lancer core book as a Kickstarter backer, and am I missing something, or does the book not actually give you a character sheet?

Character sheet's not done yet, but Comp/Con can make you characters and mechs and export them in a printable format.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

Gonna try to get a game group starting this year to play dungeon world. My wife wants to host but isn't into the regular fantasy milieu, so she's not excited about playing. A couple of her and my friends have expressed interest, mostly around D&D, but I want to try and break out of that mold.

Anyway, i chatted about it with her, and she mentioned that a murder mystery teen drama game like Pretty Little Liars would be her jam. Now I can't get the idea out of my head of getting the group together and then introducing them to Monster Hearts.

Edit: after they're well and comfortable with DW of course

Tibalt fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jan 1, 2020

hyphz
Aug 5, 2003

Number 1 Nerd Tear Farmer 2022.

Keep it up, champ.

Also you're a skeleton warrior now. Kree.
Unlockable Ben
That sounds more like Bubblegumshoe.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

hyphz posted:

That sounds more like Bubblegumshoe.
Thanks!

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.

Tibalt posted:

Now I can't get the idea out of my head of getting the group together and then introducing them to Monster Hearts.

Edit: after they're well and comfortable with DW of course
Honestly? Skip straight to Monsterhearts. It's a really good AW hack. Dungeon World...not so much.

BlackIronHeart
Aug 2, 2004

The Oath Breaker's about to hit warphead nine Kaptain!

Ilor posted:

Honestly? Skip straight to Monsterhearts. It's a really good AW hack. Dungeon World...not so much.

This, do this.

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Monsterhearts is a great game, but it's definitely one to have a long conversation about with your group before playing, given the degree that sex, violence, and various forms of abuse can end up playing into the narrative. Make sure there's a high level of trust at the table and that everyone is comfortable setting and asserting their boundaries, as well as respecting other people's.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Ilor posted:

Honestly? Skip straight to Monsterhearts. It's a really good AW hack. Dungeon World...not so much.

Do this

Antivehicular posted:

Monsterhearts is a great game, but it's definitely one to have a long conversation about with your group before playing, given the degree that sex, violence, and various forms of abuse can end up playing into the narrative. Make sure there's a high level of trust at the table and that everyone is comfortable setting and asserting their boundaries, as well as respecting other people's.

But definitely definitely do this first, Monsterhearts is an amazing game but if you just assume everyone's on the same page without hashing it out first then it starts off with everyone having a good time and it's a bit like Buffy and then suddenly the whole group except for one person is going :stare: shutupshutupshutup:stare: and it's a bit like Buffy.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


There's a part of me that wants to try Monsterhearts because I read the praise on the forums, but a bigger part of me doesn't want to be a sexy Frankenstein in a Monster High RPG

Lemon-Lime
Aug 6, 2009
If you're not at least a little bit interested in playing through what is essentially a soap opera/The CW drama RPG (that happens to use monsters as metaphors for teenager feelings), then you shouldn't play Monsterhearts. It's a good game specifically because its mechanics really drive its theme, and if you don't care for the theme you just won't have a very good time.

Ilor
Feb 2, 2008

That's a crit.
Yeah, let me be clear here: I wholeheartedly recommend Monsterhearts for people who want to play that kind of game because the rules are tight, the playbooks are exceedingly well constructed and the game hews to its chosen theme extremely well. But I personally have zero interest in it. It is definitely a niche genre.

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
ooohhhh i'm stupid sexy archie, i never wear shirts, i have feeeeeeeeeeeeeelings and sing muuuuuuuuuusic. i started a riot at a juvenile detention facility i went to willingly because i'm stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. oh noooo im getting my guts ate by a gargolye, oh no jughead, run and tell veronica that im getting my insides turned into outsides by the evil D&D metaphor gargoyle gang, oh nooooooooo, my aaaaaabssss.






That's Monsterhearts. It's got a good Riverdale S3/Chilling Adventures of Sabrina vibe.

Coolness Averted
Feb 20, 2007

oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

ooohhhh i'm stupid sexy archie, i never wear shirts, i have feeeeeeeeeeeeeelings and sing muuuuuuuuuusic. i started a riot at a juvenile detention facility i went to willingly because i'm stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. oh noooo im getting my guts ate by a gargolye, oh no jughead, run and tell veronica that im getting my insides turned into outsides by the evil D&D metaphor gargoyle gang, oh nooooooooo, my aaaaaabssss.






That's Monsterhearts. It's got a good Riverdale S3/Chilling Adventures of Sabrina vibe.

well that sold me

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
I learned the hard way that you can't argue with grogs about AD&D because hardly anyone actually plays AD&D by the book. There's a reason weapon speed and weapon vs. armor were explicitly marked out as optional rules in 2e. (And AD&D was already Basic plus a compendium of mishmashed house rules--it was designed to have large parts of the rules ignored, probably not on purpose.)

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...



I figure this has been asked before but: is there a good system for modelling Redwall-style adventures?

potatocubed
Jul 26, 2012

*rathian noises*

Zurui posted:

I figure this has been asked before but: is there a good system for modelling Redwall-style adventures?

Mouse Guard seems like the obvious answer, but there are probably others I can't think of right now.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
Also Root (PBTA), Woodland Warriors (OSR), Wild Lands, and The One Ring if you're willing to homebrew new Cultures and Backgrounds.

Also someone is doing Actual Plays

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
It's definitely Mouse Guard.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.
redwall RPG should have PBTA-style resolution for most things including combat, but an enormously elaborate high-crunch system for cooking

PHIZ KALIFA
Dec 21, 2011

#mood
What's the cosmology like for Redwall, where Satan exists and is referenced during battles, but never any mention of a savior?

Zurui
Apr 20, 2005
Even now...



grassy gnoll posted:

It's definitely Mouse Guard.

Mouse Guard is great but takes some hacking to make work with a mixed-species party and a more cosmopolitan world. I was hoping to get something that works more out of the box.

Joe Slowboat
Nov 9, 2016

Higgledy-Piggledy Whale Statements



PHIZ KALIFA posted:

What's the cosmology like for Redwall, where Satan exists and is referenced during battles, but never any mention of a savior?

I always assumed, since human towns, dogs, and horses appear in the first book (albeit at a remove) the mice are mimicking human society but have their own mouse traditions which are vaguer.

That or Satan is just their term for snakes, since the snake in the quarry is named Asmodeus.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

PHIZ KALIFA posted:

What's the cosmology like for Redwall, where Satan exists and is referenced during battles, but never any mention of a savior?

The original Redwall book has a few oblique references that point to the animals practicing literal Christianity (or having done so at some point, at least), and subsequent retcons have them practicing no religion at all. There's an afterlife of some sort but it appears to both literally exist (for the dead to send back visions from, among other things) and the conception of it, when it's addressed at all, gets closer to the idea of the Greek underworld than anything else; the first book's references to Hell or "Hellgates" are gradually downgraded to the idea of the "Dark Forest" where the souls of the dead go in general.

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grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.

Zurui posted:

Mouse Guard is great but takes some hacking to make work with a mixed-species party and a more cosmopolitan world. I was hoping to get something that works more out of the box.

Ironclaw functions pretty well as a system, but you're looking at more high-fantasy adventure at that point. It's a bit of a pain to pick up until you figure out what it's trying to do, though.

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