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Big Mean Jerk posted:I was going to say that Heaven Sent had the misfortune of being sandwiched between the two worst episodes of that season, but then I remembered S9 also has the Zygon two-parter and the Me two-parter. I don't often hear negative opinions about Face The Raven, but I'd be keen to. What ground your gears? What got on your nerves? What trashed your trap street?
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Jan 7, 2019 09:15
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While I like Heaven Sent, I also kind of hate it for being the penultimate Moffat having to leave his mark with dumb changes to lore episode. The Doctor's childhood scenes in Listen were pretty unnecessary. Hell Bent's Gallifrey and suddenly useless and powerless Rassilon is just the worst. But in Heaven Sent he straight up killed the Doctor. Full stop. The character we've followed for 50+ years died for the dumbest of reasons. And then a duplicated lump of flesh strolled off with his face.
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Jan 7, 2019 09:34
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twistedmentat posted:It's easily Too Political = isn't focused on white men. I've tried everything people have suggested but YouTube still seems intent on recommending me videos where the thumbnail is a picture of Daisy Ridley next to the title "THE PROBLEM WITH FORCED DIVERSITY".
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Jan 7, 2019 10:41
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YouTube’s algorithm is weirdly focused on showing its users increasingly nazi-ish videos if you leave it running long enough.
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Jan 7, 2019 11:24
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Open Source Idiom posted:I don't often hear negative opinions about Face The Raven, but I'd be keen to. What ground your gears? What got on your nerves? What trashed your trap street? It’s more or less an okay episode in a vacuum and I understand why people like it, but the whole situation involving Clara’s death felt really cheap and forced. Doubly so since it was immediately reversed two episodes later. I also think Maisie Williams is a mediocre actor at best and I was already tired of her character after that two-parter earlier in the season.
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Jan 7, 2019 11:29
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SimplyCosmic posted:But in Heaven Sent he straight up killed the Doctor. Full stop. The character we've followed for 50+ years died for the dumbest of reasons. It was made pretty clear (at least to me) in the episode that the Confession Dial was a closed system with the same energy being recycled over and over and over again throughout it. The Doctor doesn't die, he just burns his physical body and the energy within is reconstituted in the form it was in back at the start of the cycle when he first teleported in (hence him losing the memories). The REAL horror for me of that story is that despite having no memory of previous cycles at the start of the next one, whenever it gets to the end he tells "Clara" that he always remembers "all of it" at that point. Suggesting that he's suddenly getting hit with the memory of all his previous cycles. That's another aspect of the torture intended to break him, the inescapable knowledge of the sheer futility of continuing to fight and just how long he has been doing this now. Of course he does anyway, and succeeds, because that's one hell of a bird 
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Jan 7, 2019 11:39
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I report any far right bullshit that appears in my YouTube recommendations. I doubt it accomplishes anything but it makes me feel better. I enjoy Heaven Sent primarily as a vehicle for Capaldi to show off as an actor. I don't think it's that compelling a story. Hell Bent I like the idea of though I don't know if the execution quite works.
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Jan 7, 2019 11:47
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I do however love that the Doctor is enduring all that horrific torture for the sake of Ashilde (I hate the name "Me" for her) specifically after her role in Clara's death.
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Jan 7, 2019 11:50
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The doctor's ludicrous level of willpower and determination is probably my favourite of his/her superpowers. The hyper intelligence and latest pulled-out-of-the-writer's-arse special time lord bodily functions can both get a bit tired, but the character's almost unreasonable ability to pursue a goal no matter what (usually Doing The Right Thing) is what makes the Doctor a genuinely good fictional role model
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Jan 7, 2019 11:51
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Ah! The new thread title "DOCTOR WHO IS CANCELLED. NO REFUNDS" had me so worried my heart lept into my throat. I swear to gxd, op! :fistshake: :P I sometimes think of the line "You have a 1% chance of survival. So what do you do? You concentrate on the one." its friggin powerful. thats the doctor who trait i most adore. optimism. e: actually the line is "Your chances of survival are about one in a thousand. So here's what you do. You forget the thousand, and you concentrate on the one." but the sentiment is what i enjoy.
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Jan 7, 2019 12:05
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SimplyCosmic posted:While I like Heaven Sent, I also kind of hate it for being the penultimate Moffat having to leave his mark with dumb changes to lore episode. I can't imagine how the exact and only extant copy of the same character with the same memories is any more killing the Doctor than having him choke out his companion, encourage a child to return to his abusive father, or say how cool and good Amazon is.
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Jan 7, 2019 12:13
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Doctor Who is in a perpetual state of being ruined forever.
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Jan 7, 2019 12:23
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SimplyCosmic posted:But in Heaven Sent he straight up killed the Doctor. Full stop. The character we've followed for 50+ years died for the dumbest of reasons. It's best not to think about the ethics of teleporters.
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Jan 7, 2019 12:46
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It's been a while since Eight's lost his memory! https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/war-master-vs-eight-doctor
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Jan 7, 2019 13:01
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Davros1 posted:It's been a while since Eight's lost his memory! I’m surprised they held off this long! Although now I’m sad at the thought we never got John Hurt and Derek Jacobi on the same audio. 
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Jan 7, 2019 13:51
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SimplyCosmic posted:While I like Heaven Sent, I also kind of hate it for being the penultimate Moffat having to leave his mark with dumb changes to lore episode. Star Trek does this multiple times an episode!
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Jan 7, 2019 14:20
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better never have character development either, that's the most egregious way to "leave your mark" on a show. how dare moffat write stories where things happen, he's so arrogant
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Jan 7, 2019 14:26
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Barry Foster posted:The doctor's ludicrous level of willpower and determination is probably my favourite of his/her superpowers. The hyper intelligence and latest pulled-out-of-the-writer's-arse special time lord bodily functions can both get a bit tired, but the character's almost unreasonable ability to pursue a goal no matter what (usually Doing The Right Thing) is what makes the Doctor a genuinely good fictional role model That's one of the reasons I love Day of the Doctor, in particular, so much.
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Jan 7, 2019 14:46
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Davros1 posted:A tweet from Colin Baker's daughter: "Change, my diaper.... and not a moment too soon."
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Jan 7, 2019 15:46
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Lampsacus posted:Ah! The new thread title "DOCTOR WHO IS CANCELLED. NO REFUNDS" had me so worried my heart lept into my throat. I swear to gxd, op! :fistshake: :P I actually based the thread name on the opening line of a Goon-created(?) storyline from a WWE video game called “Regal, Stretched” where the thing cancelled is WrestleMania. I always found it hilarious, and I figured this was as good a time as any to reference it.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:34
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SimplyCosmic posted:While I like Heaven Sent, I also kind of hate it for being the penultimate Moffat having to leave his mark with dumb changes to lore episode. Joke’s on you, that already happened to Five! don’t listen to necromantea
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Jan 7, 2019 18:32
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https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0792003/?ref_=nv_sr_1 W Morgan Sheppard, who played the older Canton Delaware in "The Impossible Astronaut", passed away.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:35
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Davros1 posted:A tweet from Colin Baker's daughter: Strained carrots?!?!
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Jan 7, 2019 18:38
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I was going to say that Heaven Sent had the misfortune of being sandwiched between the two worst episodes of that season, but then I remembered S9 also has the Zygon two-parter and the Me two-parter. SimplyCosmic posted:While I like Heaven Sent, I also kind of hate it for being the penultimate Moffat having to leave his mark with dumb changes to lore episode. quote:WILF: Yeah, but I thought, when I saw you before, you said your people could change, like, your whole body.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:21
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I think no matter what you think of it it's clear that a lot of effort and thought went into Heaven Sent, which makes it pretty astonishing when Hell Bent reveals that the entire purpose of the episode was for Clara to, upon hearing about it, burst into tears and ask "why would you do that to yourself?" I understand having objections to Moffat messing with the lore, but you can hardly accuse the man of playing favourites with his own stuff after he put out probably his best episode- possibly anyone's best episode- and then seven days later, as part of the same story, recontextualised the entire thing as a ludicrous stupid stunt that an rear end in a top hat would do
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Jan 7, 2019 20:37
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a controlling codependent rear end in a top hat!
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Jan 7, 2019 20:40
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Davros1 posted:Saw someone on Twitter try to say that the problem with this series was that every ep revolved around the Doctor being a woman. He never answered when I told him to cite examples. If there's a problem with the latest series, it's that they didn't do enough with the Doctor being a woman. One or two quick mentions plus some scenes in "The Witchfinders" and that was pretty much it. No doubt the fact that scripts had been written for "generic Doctor" before Jodie Whittaker was cast is the main reason, and I hope Chibnall shows some signs of recognizing the potential issues with having the first woman to play the Doctor be the one who is socially and emotionally aware and non-violent to the point of seeming powerlessness going into the next season. marktheando posted:I’ve started re-watching this silly show from the start again, rather than looking for something new to watch. Please send help. An old man with white hair will be along soon to hit you in the back of the head with a rock. Jerusalem posted:It was made pretty clear (at least to me) in the episode that the Confession Dial was a closed system with the same energy being recycled over and over and over again throughout it. The Doctor doesn't die, he just burns his physical body and the energy within is reconstituted in the form it was in back at the start of the cycle when he first teleported in (hence him losing the memories). The expression on Capaldi's face when that wall shatters would retroactively justify the entire episode even if it hadn't been good before then.
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Jan 7, 2019 21:00
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Lampsacus posted:I sometimes think of the line "You have a 1% chance of survival. So what do you do? You concentrate on the one." its friggin powerful. thats the doctor who trait i most adore. optimism. It gets brought up a lot and for good reason, but it's part of what makes Caves of Androzani so great. "So I'm in a crashing spaceship plummeting towards Earth, I'm dying of some horrible poison, and some rear end in a top hat has a gun pointed at me... but there's a practical stranger on that planet down there who I only just met who needs help, so I'm not backing down!"
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Jan 7, 2019 21:15
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The new episode was ok, but it's a shame that British police don't have radios, and the military only has one tank. The scene where the police person doesn't bother to even radio in that a weird thing is happening took me out so much that I didn't really even pay attention when Ryan was talking to his dad in the cafe.
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Jan 7, 2019 23:37
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Cojawfee posted:the military only has one tank. Mike Watt borrowed the other one 
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Jan 7, 2019 23:43
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The_Doctor posted:I’m surprised they held off this long! Although now I’m sad at the thought we never got John Hurt and Derek Jacobi on the same audio. Don't worry, I'm sure they'll encounter one another in an IDW comic book or three. At least we'll have that.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:16
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I was disappointed that we never got John Hurt vs Terry Molloy.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:40
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rvm posted:Doctor Who is in a perpetual state of being ruined forever. Doctor Who General Wikia is Dead, Long Live Doctor Who General! https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/8d8r32/times_doctor_who_was_ruined_forever/
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Jan 8, 2019 02:58
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Astroman posted:Doctor Who General Wikia is Dead, Long Live Doctor Who General! Doesn’t cover Death Comes to Time where the Doctor literally dies.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:37
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Most affecting "Doctor Dies" audio is a Seven story that I won't give away, but has "death" in the title. The companions' grief in that one felt so real, and then it goes for other reasons. Holy poo poo that was good. "Heaven Sent" holds that same kind of feeling throughout, which makes the ending of "Hell Bent" feel like even more of a cop-out. (Although I'm not as mad about that as I probably should be.) It also has one of the realest lines I've ever heard in Doctor Who: Heaven Sent posted:It's funny, the day you lose someone isn't the worst. At least you've got something to do. It's all the days they stay dead. I think about that line a lot.
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Jan 8, 2019 06:38
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I think Doctor Who is ultimately an optimistic enough fantasy show that it makes sense to take something that somebody has always wished for and put it on the screen: to express the horrible, sucking feeling that is the grief of losing somebody to that person, to let them know that you would do anything to have them back, and when they cry with sympathy about how much you're hurting, realize that you are grieving with the dead. It's a good follow up to a great episode about grieving. Hell Bent has a lot of problems - it wastes too much time on Gallifrey and prophecies and the ultimately meaningless maguffin of "the hybrid" - but the emotional connection between the Doctor and Clara carries it for me. Peter Capaldi saying "I have a duty of care" might be my favorite moment for his Doctor.
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Jan 8, 2019 06:47
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Clara's ending was definitely more a problem in execution than in concept, and I was much happier when the Bill re-do, since it bookended the season (and Bill's run).
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Jan 8, 2019 06:54
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I love the ending between them in the diner, where it turns out the framing story wasn't the Doctor telling the story of how Clara died to one of her clones, or to a memory-wiped Clara herself, but was instead the Doctor trying to piece together what memories of Clara remained to him. He felt like a confused old man, and I wonder if any of that writing- or performance- came from experiences of aged relatives with dementia. Try not to have your heart break as the Doctor says "if I saw her again I would absolutely know" and it's almost too much for Clara to take. DOCTOR: *playing Clara's theme* CLARA: You said memories become stories when we forget them. Maybe some of them become songs. DOCTOR: That'd be nice. *starts playing a different tune* CLARA: Yeah. It would be, wouldn't it. Ever notice how Moffat always seemed to use other people's episodes for positive callbacks, and his own for negative? Even with Clara gone from his mind completely the Doctor remembers the Ice Warrior on a submarine and the mummy on the Orient Express. When Amy reminisces she talks about the pirates and Van Gogh. The dalek Rusty, of all characters, gets a cameo in Moffat's final episode. But when the Doctor doesn't remember something clearly it's The Girl In The Fireplace or The Impossible Astronaut. Time Of The Doctor brushes aside three years of his own lore because we're busy doing Christmas. I'd put it down to a kind of Scottish Cringe, but the guy who undestroyed Gallifrey and had the Doctor defeat Rassilon by standing still and saying six words must have some confidence
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Jan 8, 2019 07:25
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In no way is it a perfect episode, and Hell Bent is plenty messy, but it's one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. There's so much to love there; others have already mentioned that it brilliantly uses Heaven Sent by having Clara horrified when she learns what the Doctor did to get to her, but he also deposes Rassilon in the first fifteen minutes to do so. Which could be too much, but the staging of it as a Western and the scene of the Time War veterans throwing down their guns to join the Doctor is just brilliant. The hybrid stuff is the weirdest thing, because I can't figure out if it's supposed to be a send-up of a series arc, an aborted series arc, a poorly implemented series arc, or a poorly implemented send-up of a series arc. In the end it doesn't matter because it's not much of a factor, but it's just bizarre.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:26
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Hell Bent did manage to portray one of those locations you only really expect to see in a book, and never actually on screen. The final hours of Gallifrey before it all burns down is wonderfully evocative.
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Jan 8, 2019 08:51
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