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It's clearer with a screenshot, people are lazy and don't click on links. Or at least that's what I do. 
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Jan 18, 2019 21:55
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Turin Turambar posted:It's clearer with a screenshot, people are lazy and don't click on links. Or at least that's what I do. It embedded just fine for me. Your Computer posted:has the interface been updated since the game first came out? I remember being a bit skeptical of it because the interface looked like a mess, just a bunch of different fonts of different pixel resolutions and really hard to read. That was like, a pretty long time ago though. Actually yes, my main issue with the game when I first tried it early in beta last year was the patchwork UI, I tried it again last weekend and all the UI issues had been cleaned up and significantly improved.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:07
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I hope this game does really well on Switch, it really deserves it and it should be a good fit. Not to be weird but does anyone know / want to comment on how it's done? I feel like it got a lot of pre release hype but I haven't seen much about it since.
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Jan 18, 2019 22:37
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I hope this game does really well on Switch, it really deserves it and it should be a good fit. Zircon's commented about being happy with the number of sales, and it seems like it's taken off in Japan since the translation came out.
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Jan 18, 2019 23:14
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SKULL.GIF posted:It embedded just fine for me. Uh, I didn't even know that was a feature in this forum. What browser are you using? I'm finishing up my third playthrough, I think now I will take a breather to try Slay the Spire when it releases, and then come back to the expansion.
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Jan 18, 2019 23:54
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Turin Turambar posted:Uh, I didn't even know that was a feature in this forum. What browser are you using? Enable experimental features, iirc. You may also have to unblock Twitter in Ghostery/uBlock if you're running these (or something similar).
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Jan 19, 2019 00:11
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It might as well be a whole different game compared to launch. Give it a shot. It's not a perfect game by any stretch but what's there is fun. After my third win I'm not sure I wanna do anything more cause the builds do end up a bit sameish for me and ng+ laps don't do much for me. The expansion looks like it's going to solve quite a bit of this, I hope.
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Jan 19, 2019 05:04
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Put together an Edge Thane/Sword Dancer/Budoka build focused around lloads of crits, ALL THE PARRIES, and Steel Resolve, going to take a deep dive through the second half of the game.
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Jan 20, 2019 18:36
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SKULL.GIF posted:Put together an Edge Thane/Sword Dancer/Budoka build focused around lloads of crits, ALL THE PARRIES, and Steel Resolve, going to take a deep dive through the second half of the game. People do interesting things with builds, like a multi-class build to have several pets at the same time (so, Soulkeeper/Floramancer/Hunter?). I'm going the opposite way, on the other hand, I'm doing a mod to have a shorter experience (15 floors, no side dungeons) and play with a single job in them.
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Jan 20, 2019 20:36
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The dev, Zircon, is a good guy (tm), after I had some problems with the mod I was developing, he included new moddable balance variables so players can tweak the experience. It will be included in the next update.
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Jan 22, 2019 12:30
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Well, at this point I played well enough to judge the issues of the game. Because every game have them  -Pace. The game is imo too long. We are talking of 20 hours for the first run, a bit less on the following ones. The game is 24 floors + 12-15 of side dungeons + whatever number of floors you do in dream items, and some of them can be up to 5 floors. In total around 50 floors to do. That’s fine for a game you are going to play one or two times, but for a game that is supposed to be very replayable (random dungeons, random items, random champions & rumors, a dozen of classes), it had been better idea a shorter length to use better that replayability. -Difficulty balance. The game difficulty isn’t as well adjusted as I would like. Part of it it’s the variable length, part of it the randomness. For the first part, it can make the game too easy for the middle 25% of it. The game won’t scale the floors content to the player, as because the game designer didn’t know how much side content the player is going to do nor at what point he is going to do it, in the end it’s easy to out-level the main story content of the game if you explore every side dungeon, do semi frequent rumors, and are basically a completionist player. There are some mechanics to be sure they player won’t outlevel a lot the game, he gains less and less xp in the content that it’s too easy for him, but even then, you can outlevel several floors in the middle of the game by two or three levels, enough to make them boring. It seems the game trust on the caps (hard player level cap at 15, and a cap for job skills as you can only have 16 active and 4 passive ones) to make the endgame not trivial whatever the player does, and it mostly works, but the issue still persists, in the previous floors before the ‘endgame’ (the last four or five floors). The second part is the opposite, instead of the game being too easy, sometimes it’s too hard. It’s more rare, but from time to time the pure randomness of a roguelike can bit you in the rear end. That’s ok-ish in a roguelite where a run is 70 minutes, but less ok when the run is 20 hours. The issue is the champions and their randomness, sometimes a floor have zero champions, sometimes they have three. Sometimes they are separate, sometimes two fo them can be close enough as they move around randomly, so once combat starts, you may have to fight two fo them. Their level also varies a bit (-1 to+1?) of what it should be, sometimes they are ‘very hard’ and sometimes they can be ‘impossible’, all this means sometimes you will fight two harder than usual champions. And finally add their champion abilities are random, and some are better and more deadly than others. And they have up to four of them, so you may have a champion with several of the ‘mean’ ones. So all these random factors can produce up encounter that are much more harder than the rest of the game. -The game had a good amount of variation in key aspects, like biomes, player classes, enemies, iteminization… still, at the end of the day, it’s a hack & slash. It gets repetitive. This is more wish listing, but I think what is missing maybe it’s a bit more environmental effects and interaction. The game has a few ground tiles with effects (mud, lava, water), it wouldn’t hurt to have a few more types. And traps, thing like triggerable fire traps or spinning blades or a rolling boulder, something that other RL have done but are totally missing here. I think they can be fun, if you can use them at your advantage, against the enemies, too.
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Jan 23, 2019 15:57
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Agreed with most of that. I'd like a more streamlined option for a short campaign and I definitely miss the environmental interactions and traps that many roguelikes have - appreciate that the better your graphics get the harder these are to implement on a small budget, but hopefully now the game is in place we'll see some expanded interactivity. I think ToME is a good comparison here (in that it's also far too long) - most of the game doesn't have extensive interactivity, but then you have weird levels like the sandworm lair where the paths are always shifting, underwater levels where you have to manage your breath, etc. Some stuff like that would be cool and the lack of auto-explore would take away one of the issues Lunchmeat Larry fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 16:32
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This is one of the best roguelikes I've ever played; it's simultaneously approachable and daunting. There's so much at work in a game designed so well you don't have to really gently caress with all of it and you STILL reap the rewards. Plus, it looks cool af.
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Jan 23, 2019 16:45
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this game is fun but its too hard to die as it is with the million healing items and food you will accumulate during a run
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Jan 24, 2019 22:31
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also I had a really fun Edge Thane build with the gem that changes verse of the elements to del damage to a random enemy and whirlwind from axe mastery. turns out whirlwind and the verse all trigger even during free turns so you can get a bunch of free dmg procs as you throw your songs and verses around
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Jan 24, 2019 22:40
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babypolis posted:this game is fun but its too hard to die as it is with the million healing items and food you will accumulate during a run I agree, the game is on the casual side. If you have experience with roguelikes, try some of the game modifiers to make the game harder.  You can try the yellow 'triple pandora boxes' and take all of them, it should increase the difficulty enough. Monsters regenerating health I guess in practical terms it means they will need a pair of hits more than usual (as they will recover a bit while you fight), so maybe that's also the closest to a simple "hard mode". Or the red 'all enemies have one champion ability' sounds fun, I have to try that one sometime. In think it's a mistake of the game to have these modifiers that are kind of hidden (the fact it's a single line in an unrelated screen about perks don't help) and in addition they don't have a clear 'make the game harder', and not have a easy, obvious to understand difficulty mode: easy, medium, hard, etc. Note: In a few days there will be an update that will allow to mod the difficulty in an easy way, I will make a pair of mods then for it. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 22:57
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I've got six bucks on my Nintendo account from all the rewards points I've harvested lately so looks like I'm waiting a week to get this on Switch
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Jan 24, 2019 23:06
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I bought this on Steam and I really love the soundtrack.
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Jan 25, 2019 01:20
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The first six minutes of the expansion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06T0u8N2rzI It shows how Shara plays differently, in how she obtains stats, skills, in how she uses pets and how fountains affect her.
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Jan 26, 2019 22:25
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New Updatequote:ART/VISUALS I remark the Mod support because I've made a few. I will publish them soon enough (tomorrow?)
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Jan 29, 2019 20:14
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Switch version is out. https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/tangledeep-switch https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Nintendo-Switch-download-software/Tangledeep-1505728.html https://ec.nintendo.com/JP/ja/titles/70010000003095 The dev is streaming the console version here https://www.twitch.tv/impactgameworks/
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Jan 31, 2019 19:19
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Turin Turambar posted:New Update Sorry for the 'spam', but let me write a bit about the mod I've made. First, this is it, Turin Condensed Campaign You can read inside the intention of the mod, how it works, etc. Basically, I tried to do a shorter, more condensed experience to play a single job, still maintaining the variety of types of floors, improving the pace and the balance of the game. In addition, it's a bit harder than the main campaign. If anyone can give me feedback about it, I would be happy. That said, now it comes the boring part. Let me talk about the sunk costs fallacy. Because I started the mod basing it in a sample dungeon mod from the devs, with the intention of making a dungeon run for myself. I saw the xml structure of the mod, and it seemed super easy to do, just copy and paste some sections, modify some values, edit some id numbers, test it works, and baaam done in a pair of hours ! Well, you know how it's any software development. Unexpected problems appeared one after another, I underestimated the amount of time needed to balance it (and I wanted something better and better as I developed it, to), and in the end I needed not 2 hours, but six days to do this. If I had known from the start the amount of work I guess I wouldn't have made it, but here it comes the sunk costs fallacy. As I already had invested 7 or 8 hours of my time when I started thinking 'mmm maybe I should forget this poo poo', if I dropped it to cut my losses, that 7 or 8 hours would have been a waste if I didn't finish it and release it, so I continued and continued, until the time investment was more like 10x of my initial thought, lol. Because the entire dungeon counts as a side dungeon, at some parts I had to even invent some workarounds to deal with how the game passes days, or how you obtain orbs, I talked with the dev for some stuff (that new possibilities for modding in the last update? that was me ), and playtested to check the balance.In any case in the end I'm happy with the result, the mod more or less fixes most of my issues with total length, pace and uneven difficulty, while tweaking things to a 'experienced' player level, without going overboard. Because the mod is a totally experience linear without alternative branches or sidequests (with the exception of the dream dungeons, that also are limited), you can control the difficulty progression better than the base game does, and as the experience is notably shorter than the base game, you win: -less gold -less xp (you don't reach the cap, in fact) -less jp -less health charges (and no fireplaces between floors) -notably less orbs -most rumors aren't in this mod dungeon, so that's also another source of resources nullified Adjusting the economy and progression balance in a more 'tight' way. Money is a bit more important, in the base game once you were high enough it was no concern. You have enough jp to buy a full job and a weapon mastery, but not enough to take a second full job. You have enough health charges and food to finish the dungeon, but not enough to end it with 40 extra unused flasks. And more importantly, there shouldn't be floors where you are mopping the enemies with autoattacks without even looking what they are. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 22:38
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dont worry about spamming, you are contributing useful posts
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Jan 31, 2019 22:55
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A bit about general game design armchair-itis: It's after tweaking and retweaking and testing the mod that I can say, this game really needs something lots of gamers usually hate: some kind of auto-level system! Because basically it's impossible to guess at what 'power level' (imaginary number as summary for player level, how many job skills, how good is the equipment) at say, floor 12 in the game. How many side dungeons have been done? Who Knows! How many rumors have been completed? Who Knows! Have he completed the job trials? Who knows! Have he gone back and completed both branched in the first division after the first boss? Who knows! And even more important, how many Orbs the player have gained? (Because it's a random number, champions may or may not drop it) And is he using them and improving his weapons or is he keeping them until he gets a really good legendary? And when using an Orb, is he entering in trivial/very easy Dreams, or in Hard ones? Because the amount of xp and jp gained will vary too. So in the end, you can't know if the player is 'power' 100, or 'power' 160. So I guess now you know why that kind of system was invented in the first place.
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Jan 31, 2019 23:10
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As someone who had a fair amount of trouble when they first played the game to me now who is clowning on most floors, bringing a pet is literally the difference maker between getting totally overwhelmed and being very strong
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Jan 31, 2019 23:23
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Yeah and you don't even have to go that overboard with it. One generation of cross breeding water heal alongside fungal regeneration is enough to tank almost all of the normal game.
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Feb 1, 2019 06:16
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The pet is great for tanking enemies, otherwise every little fight will drain your resources a lot. In special not every pet is the same, it's key that the pet has a heal, that's why the starting frog pet is so good. Others are much more cumbersome, even when they are higher level pets. Hey I found the Trello boards of the devs, they are open https://trello.com/b/ULZ83No3/tangledeep https://trello.com/b/u3HPNTiL/tangledeep-expansion Dragons!  I read on Discord some comments from 2 months ago, the dragon thing is supposed to be a future expansion or free post-support content for the Shara expansion. They weren't sure at that moment.
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Feb 1, 2019 10:20
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Does anyone know when the Shara expansion drops? I'm between games and wouldn't mind going back to Tangledeep.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:14
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Happylisk posted:Does anyone know when the Shara expansion drops? I'm between games and wouldn't mind going back to Tangledeep. Last I heard,closer to end of February than to the beginning. So you can put another game in between now and end of the month.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:25
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Bummer, for some reason I thought it was this week. Must have gotten it confused with the Switch release. I'll just pick up Card Quest in the meantime.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:29
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I'm having a pretty good time with the Switch version so far. The only gripe I'm having with it is it's pretty tedious to open up a menu to select and use consumables. I swear it takes me like 10 seconds to find one that I'm gonna use and it might do something like give me extra damage on my next attack. It's pretty small, and I reaaally appreciate the work that's been done to make the UI in this game even usable on a console. It's just this last small thing that bugs me. I kind of wish there was like a radial menu I could assign things to.
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Feb 1, 2019 14:42
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DarkAvenger211 posted:I'm having a pretty good time with the Switch version so far. The only gripe I'm having with it is it's pretty tedious to open up a menu to select and use consumables. I swear it takes me like 10 seconds to find one that I'm gonna use and it might do something like give me extra damage on my next attack. So I don't have a Switch, but there should be a way to assign a consumable item to a hotbar, the 8 squares you see on this screenshot.  Same thing you do with the skills of your Job. Not only that, but there should be some button to switch between two hotbars, at least in this switch video is visible  So you have 16 slots for skills and item in total. In pc you switch between both with Control, for example.
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Feb 1, 2019 15:58
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Garfu posted:Both of the main devs are goons, zircon and madjackmcmad (dungeonmans) This is exciting to hear! I'm torn between this and Wargroove and this just sold me on this game. Dungeonmans owns! I had no idea madjack was involved with this. 
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Feb 1, 2019 16:50
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Hey guys, got this on Switch yesterday and it is really good. Thanks for making a good game and selling it to me. I'm rockin a sword dancer who uses a 2 hander and she is flippin around parrying and countering everything, it rules. Dungeonmans port next?
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Feb 1, 2019 18:29
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I had no idea about this thread! I will visit it more often, thanks for putting it together.Lunchmeat Larry posted:I hope this game does really well on Switch, it really deserves it and it should be a good fit. Turpitude posted:Hey guys, got this on Switch yesterday and it is really good. Thanks for making a good game and selling it to me. I'm rockin a sword dancer who uses a 2 hander and she is flippin around parrying and countering everything, it rules. just not the right game for the platform.DarkAvenger211 posted:I'm having a pretty good time with the Switch version so far. The only gripe I'm having with it is it's pretty tedious to open up a menu to select and use consumables. I swear it takes me like 10 seconds to find one that I'm gonna use and it might do something like give me extra damage on my next attack.
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Feb 1, 2019 18:59
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madjackmcmad posted:I had no idea about this thread! I will visit it more often, thanks for putting it together. You basically stumbled right into 'if you build it they will come' for Japan. Tangledeep is the exact kind of game they super love and it has just the right aesthetic so you just hit it out of the ballpark for them.
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Feb 1, 2019 19:49
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There have been so many games with roguelike elements, I forgot how much I enjoyed just a traditional dungeon-crawling roguelike. Really takes me back to the days of playing Nethack and (more recently) Dungeon Crawl. Switch port seems great, and I'm not having any trouble with the default font size in handheld mode, like I thought I might.
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Feb 1, 2019 19:51
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madjackmcmad posted:
Yeah! I've been using them a bit, but once the inventory gets a little full it starts getting a bit harder to parse. I think this also excludes self buff items as well (though I could manually flip the filter over). What does the ZL button do? It looked like it just displays arrows in all directions. I thought it might have been a radial menu at first but I couldn't quite figure out what it was for. I totally realize UI design is hard as hell, let alone the UI for a game like this. So overall you should know that I think the result you came up with is fantastic. You manage to give so much information to the player without taking up too much screen space. If you manage to somehow fit another customizable hotbar or radial menu in it would fix my only complaint I have about it.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:13
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Is there a map in this game? Been watching some gameplay on YouTube and I haven't seen a map or a minimap in any of it. I am terrible at navigating in games without maps. 
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Feb 1, 2019 23:23
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If you're on Switch hit the minus button.
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Feb 1, 2019 23:44
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