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Paulie - You're not gonna believe this. He killed sixteen Czechoslovakians. Guy was an interior decorator. Chris - His house looked like poo poo
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Mar 5, 2019 23:53
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I have to say, the second to last episode was so much better than the last episode ( not talking about the diner scene, which I actually liked). The 2nd to last did such a great job of building a sense of dread for Tony. Dr. Milfi finally rejecting treating him (that final closing the door was amazing), Bobby and Sil getting shot, Tony holed up in a house with a machine gun in his bed. I felt the conflict with Phil kind of fizzled a little. Still a great last episode, but the episode leading up to it was fantastic.
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Mar 5, 2019 23:58
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I have always loved HBOs penultimate episode is the true finale and the last episode is the the denouement thing
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Mar 6, 2019 13:54
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Not to mention the upcoming arrest and prosecution of Tony that they set up in that episode as well. So no matter what happened in that diner he was going away. He always said there was only two ways it ended for guys like him, and I liked that they left it open to either.
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Mar 6, 2019 14:47
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Solice Kirsk posted:Not to mention the upcoming arrest and prosecution of Tony that they set up in that episode as well. So no matter what happened in that diner he was going away. He always said there was only two ways it ended for guys like him, and I liked that they left it open to either. Agreed. I took that ending diner scene as that Tony will always be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Whether it be being killed or going to jail, he spends the rest of his time looking over his shoulder.
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Mar 6, 2019 15:35
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I feel like he did die because of all the poetry that goes along with the Members Only jacket and the flashback to "you probably don't even hear it" but yeah it almost doesn't matter. That's how it will end for him someday, and all he can do is wait.
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Mar 6, 2019 15:53
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MrBling posted:Also, probably my favourite Tony moment is the pulp argument out in the driveway. The idea that this loving idiot will stalk out of his house in his bathrobe, just to chase Carmella down to bitch about the orange juice, is hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IS-GZ4q340
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Mar 6, 2019 22:42
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The whole episode is great. That's the one where she decides that $50k is what she wants instead of finding her own happiness/redemption away from blood money right?
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Mar 7, 2019 02:32
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So over in The Wire thread, I did a bunch of write-ups of most of the episodes of the show. It was largely a way for me to organize my own thoughts as well as generate some discussion out of some of the themes, questions, speculations each episode arose, and for me at least it was a ton of fun to do. I've been thinking of doing something similar for The Sopranos for awhile, but wasn't sure if I should make a separate thread or just post them here? They'd be LOOOOOONG write-ups (though not as long as what I did for The Wire, which got ridiculous) so anybody disinterested would have to scroll past them, but I also wouldn't want to make a new thread and potentially pull discussion away from this one.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:50
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Jerusalem posted:So over in The Wire thread, I did a bunch of write-ups of most of the episodes of the show. It was largely a way for me to organize my own thoughts as well as generate some discussion out of some of the themes, questions, speculations each episode arose, and for me at least it was a ton of fun to do. I don’t think this thread gets enough traffic/posts for it to be an issue. And I’d really enjoy reading your write ups.
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Mar 7, 2019 02:54
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Do it. I'm thinking about finishing my rewatch and I want an excuse to talk about how I think Tony really did kill Ralph because of the horse and not because of the dead girl (Tracy?).
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Mar 7, 2019 03:03
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Oh my god I can’t stop laughing at this scene where Tony is at Adriana’s club and she’s imagining he knows that she’s a rat and they shoot Adriana and Tony with these Dutch angles and it is just so jarring and so funny. “I’m gonna gently caress her face up before I kill her!” About a minute in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfZehsgpXV8
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Mar 7, 2019 03:34
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Even today in the era of Netflix I'm not great at binging shows, just one episode right after another like it's a can of Pringles. I did to that with the second season, though. I mean I was already in on it, but I think it was the when Richie takes a coffee pot and just smashes it across Beansie's face. I've probably seen way worse even on TV now but there's still something about it. It's also the only show I know that did something significant with Big Mouth Billy Bass. "Anyway, four dollars a pound."
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Mar 7, 2019 03:44
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Jerusalem posted:So over in The Wire thread, I did a bunch of write-ups of most of the episodes of the show. It was largely a way for me to organize my own thoughts as well as generate some discussion out of some of the themes, questions, speculations each episode arose, and for me at least it was a ton of fun to do. Feel free to post them here!
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Mar 7, 2019 05:39
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Dawgstar posted:It's also the only show I know that did something significant with Big Mouth Billy Bass. “These guys, on either side of me... they’re asleep.” I’m not crazy about the dream episodes in this show, but Funhouse is just so good. My second favorite episode after Pine Barrens.
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Mar 7, 2019 05:50
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I love the dreams in this show because they do a really good job of capturing dream logic. The Test Dream pushes it to its limit but it's still pretty incredible, especially when he completely hosed up in front of his old high school coach. Of course my favorite dream from the series is also the one that utterly terrifies me, at the end of Calling All Cars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi_mVNeIb4&t=53s
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Mar 7, 2019 07:14
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I was thinking about doing a rewatch anyway. Jerusalem, I would be happy to join you.
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Mar 7, 2019 07:15
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Uncle Ercole https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slFgV5qHMDA
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Mar 7, 2019 07:23
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Kevyn posted:I’m not crazy about the dream episodes in this show, but Funhouse is just so good. My second favorite episode after Pine Barrens. There's something about Spoons shrugging when Tony tries to apologize for having him killed, too.
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Mar 7, 2019 13:21
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I forgot how after the whole Italy experience with the terrible bathrooms and the disappointing food and the hookers who refuse to pretend to like him, Paulie still gets home and immediately he's lording it over Pussy in the car that he's been to Italy and Pussy hasn't. With that condescending "I want you to have this experience that I had" tone too lol
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Mar 7, 2019 14:59
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Re: the ending There's a lot of evidence that Tony died at the end. But is there anything people use to suggest that he didn't die? It seemed like David Chase was pretty clear about it.
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Mar 7, 2019 16:31
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Big Dick Cheney posted:Re: the ending It cuts to black for a reason. Chase gives you enough to come to a certain conclusion but also not enough for it to feel definitive. If he wanted it to be definitive he would've handled the ending differently.
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Mar 7, 2019 18:42
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Just saw this clip again and it's a huge reminder how terrible Carmela was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB9u7-SbP5w Big Dick Cheney posted:Re: the ending I feel like Alan Sepinwall's book "The Revolution was Televised" had the best Tony didn't die at the end theory.. https://slate.com/culture/2012/12/alan-sepinwalls-the-revolution-was-televised-excerpt-david-chase-and-the-sopranos.html Also in that book, they talk about how they were gonna resolve the disappearing Russian from Pine Barrens. quote:They finally hit on an idea everyone would be happy with: Tony and Christopher pay a visit to the local Russian mob boss, where they find Valery sweeping the floor, not recognizing Christopher thanks to a traumatic brain injury suffered when Chris and Paulie were shooting at him. (It would be explained that a local Boy Scout troop found him with part of his skull missing, and saved his life.) At the last minute, Chase changed his mind, and he recalls a despondent Winter insisting, “God, you’re making a huge mistake leaving that on the table!”
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Mar 7, 2019 18:48
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Handsome Ralph posted:I feel like Alan Sepinwall's book "The Revolution was Televised" had the best Tony didn't die at the end theory.. Thanks! This is good stuff. Here is the strongest (but not only) argument from the article about Tony not dying at the end. quote:Narratively, this was never a show that cheated, or tried to trick its audience. This was never a show told only from Tony’s point of view. We knew most everything going on in his world: who was on his side, who was against him, who was honest and who was lying to him. If a character went to work for the FBI, for instance, we either saw it happen, or it was such a minor character (like capo Ray Curto, so obscure that most fans couldn’t tell him apart from Patsy Parisi) that it didn’t matter. I have to kind of agree. It does seem kind of hamfisted to say "Tony gets shot by Members Only guy" by order from some unnamed but probable enemy from his past.
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Mar 7, 2019 19:19
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Mahoning posted:I have to kind of agree. It does seem kind of hamfisted to say "Tony gets shot by Members Only guy" by order from some unnamed but probable enemy from his past. That's why the ending works though. If you literally show Members Only guy walk up to Tony and shoot him in the head ala a classic Sopranos-style whacking, that becomes the focus. For the reasons Sepinwall points out, it becomes a mystery to be solved, but a mystery that isn't really relevant. A distraction. By doing it with the cut to black, Chase nipped that pointless debate in the bud. He was able to heavily imply that Tony's life had ended without allowing the audience to go down that dumb road of obsessing over the specific plot details. At least to me, the endless debate of whether Tony is alive or dead felt more thematically relevant than just talking about the minutiae of which crew from which family ordered the hit for what reason.
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Mar 7, 2019 19:26
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The best " Tony didn't die" theory I've seen was that the blackout was the result of him losing consciousness due to a panic attack. Never being able to relax, never knowing if it's a guy sent to kill him or just some rear end in a top hat in a Member's Only jacket, all his friends are dead, one of his Capos is about flip and Melfi not treating him sent him over the edge. We've seen him have panic attacks before but always as an outsider observer, this time see what it's like for him to go through one.
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Mar 7, 2019 20:22
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He usually feels them coming on though. He doesn't go from fine to out immediately.
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Mar 7, 2019 20:44
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Mahoning posted:Thanks! This is good stuff. For one, I feel like Patsy still thinks/knows Tony killed Spoons. And as they say, revenge - unlike onion rings - is a dish best served cold. Not saying I think Patsy did it, but there are all manners of people who could have done it. The russian could have finally found out about the interior decorator, for example. It just lines up too well with all the imagery in the episode called Member's Only, then to that final scene - and I do feel like there's something to be said for Meadow needing 3 tries to park the car. I'll stop yammering because anybody here has read all this crap before. The dude has killed dozens himself and probably ordered the murders of a hundred or more, and probably has ruined the lives of many times that. There's no shortage of people who would profit from him dying, and one rival mob boss being dead isn't going to change that. Hell, Phil's crew might want Tony out of the way just so that he can't tell anybody they turned on their boss. The guy says it would be weird for any of that to happen because it would be a "sudden shift" but Tony all of a sudden strangling Chris, or Junior shooting Tony, these are major events that weren't really foreshadowed per se. Yeah Tony had thought about killing Chris previously but it seemed like in the back third of the series their bond had become unshakable. They definitely were abrupt shifts in the narrative that didn't have any recent precedent in the show.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:30
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banned from Starbucks posted:He usually feels them coming on though. He doesn't go from fine to out immediately.  If you told me he was about to pass out I'd believe it.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:45
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Eh disagree i guess. The show always makes a pretty big thing about the dizziness, blurry vision ect he gets. None of the previous POV shots in that scene imply that. And the message goes from "you never know how or when your end comes" to.. "go back to therapy " ?
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Mar 7, 2019 23:23
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Yeah I don’t think that holds up tbh
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Mar 8, 2019 09:59
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Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot/The SopranosTony Soprano posted:Lately, I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end. A middle-aged man sits in a waiting room, framed between the legs of a nude statue he can't help staring at. He looks like any well-to-do middle class suburban Dad: a bit of a gut, thinning hair, but otherwise unremarkable. This is our first introduction to Tony Soprano, a normal looking guy in a normal if awkward situation. His family Doctor has sent him to see a psychiatrist to get to the root cause of a recent collapse they can find no physical reason for. Tony is married with two kids, has a well-paying job, the respect of his colleagues and takes simple pleasure in the fact that a family of ducks have made their home in his swimming pool. He's stand-offish about his emotions, unsure about sharing what's on his mind with a psychiatrist (particularly a lady psychiatrist) and his biggest source of stress seems to be dealing with aging relatives. Also he's a Caporegime in the DiMeo crime family, making his living from extortion, illegal gambling, prostitution and murder. Filmed in 1997, this pilot episode aired for the first time in early 1999, several months before the release of Analyze This, a movie with the hilarious and ridiculous concept of a.... get this... a Mafia boss.... undergoing therapy! The Sopranos, on the other hand, was always intended to be more serious, though it was often very comedic in its approach to some particularly dark themes. The therapy sessions between Tony and Dr. Melfi, which would continue on and off (mostly on) through most of the series' run gave an opportunity to explore deeper into the psyche of the type of man who could live simultaneously as both a feared mob boss and a family man. The interplay between the two was often fascinating, particularly in the way Tony sought to undermine and negate Melfi's status to deflect reflecting too deeply on his own issues. But while the series would go many interesting places with the relationship between Tony and Melfi in the episodes and seasons to follow, here it is largely used as a framing device. Tony tells her about himself, his family, his work etc which provides the excuse for Goodfellas like narration to showcase the disconnect between what Tony says and what really happens. He's somewhat open about his need to obfuscate at least, and Melfi quickly picks up what he means (his practiced pat answer of "Waste Management Consultant" when asked what he does really says it all), with her reaction leading to one of the frequently asked (in-world and outside) questions of this series: Why does she agree and continue to treat him? She even straight up tells him how to tell her about his crimes without crossing the line where she has to report him. What drove her even at this early point to allow a professional relationship? A sense of duty that ANYBODY deserves her help? Fascination with his illicit life? The chance to be a tourist, or just simple curiosity?   The most obvious and straightforward dichotomy is between Tony's family and The Family. At home, Tony happily clambers into his pool in his dressing gown to feed the ducks while his family roll their eyes and think he's being lame - he's dad, the beloved but slightly embarrassing patriarch. To Carmela he's a constant pain in the rear end whose many infidelities are an open secret between them. But at "work" he's the guy who runs people who owe him money down in his car and beats the poo poo out of them. He works out how best to deal with rival gangs trying to muscle in on his "garbage" territory, and talks openly about the planned murder of other connected guys. As we'll learn throughout the following seasons, there is no real divide in these two aspects of Tony's life, no matter how much he might tell himself there is. Members of his extended family are part of the same Crime Family he holds such a high position in. His "nephew" Christopher Moltisanti (actually a cousin), his Uncle Junior, both occupy spaces in both his lives and cause him any manner of headaches. Christopher is young and arrogant, lacking the work ethic and the toughness Tony lauds from a bygone (rose-tinted) era. He always has excuses for why he hasn't done as asked (I was nauseous, my mother said I shouldn't even come to work!), complains about the lack of respect he gets AND splashes out money he shouldn't have on expensive things like a Lexus. When he and Tony spot a deadbeat gambler who owes them money, Christopher fails to physically restrain him and is more concerned with the damage to his car, while Tony is the one who dishes out the (comically bad) physical violence for him. Meanwhile, Junior is from the old school and refuses to change with the times, leaving Tony caught between respect for his father's brother, the man who used to take him to Yankees games, but also the need to maintain equilibrium in his own life. Junior plans to murder an associate, which doesn't bother Tony, but he also plans to do it at a restaurant owned by Artie Bucco - a lifelong (unconnected) friend of Tony's.   But it is only here, 15 minutes into the first episode that the true magic really happens. If the beating of the gambler was the low point of the pilot, here comes the best part. The first introduction of Livia Soprano. Like her namesake, Livia is a monstrous figure who will loom large over her children long past death. Tony visits her dutifully to present her with a CD player and remind her to attend his son AJ's 13th Birthday tonight. But even before we see her the weight of her overbearing presence on Tony is clear just from the way he braces himself as he knocks on the door and she deliberately holds off from answering, then pretends not to recognize his voice. She demands he eat and ignores his protests, turns her nose up at his gift, sneers at his attempts to dance with her and growls at him to shut up when he tries to talk about her becoming more active now that his father ("A saint!" she faux-weeps) is dead. His forced cheer almost immediately breaks down as she grinds him down with practiced ease, leaving unspoken but clear her agreement when he snaps that she thinks he doesn't know what he is doing in his "business". He storms out in a rage but even this is obviously a well-run routine between them, as he stops at the threshold to talk about her attending the party tonight and bringing her baked ziti, and she counters with a demand to be picked up because she won't drive when it rains. The obvious simmering resentment and fury he holds (and the guilt that accompanies that) is fully formed, and it is no surprise that until Nancy Marchand's unfortunate death, this was a show primarily built around Tony and Livia's tortured relationship. Hell, after she was gone it still was, just in a very different way. Of course she does NOT come to the birthday party, instead leaving a message with AJ on the phone that he reports with characteristic idiocy ("no loving ziti?"), and shortly after while grilling at the BBQ, a seething Tony sees the ducks fly away and suddenly collapses in front of his horrified family. Rushed to hospital, he's put into an MRI as he and Carmela have an amazing conversation where she lashes out at his attempts to brush aside his infidelities and even put equal blame on her for her frequent visits from their local priest. Carmela snaps that the difference between the two is that he will go to hell when he dies, a line that will come back to haunt her, but even something as cruel as that is apparently old hat between them as she then stands at his side and holds his hand as long as she can. This is a marriage where arguments are passionate and cruel words are frequently spoken. As Tony waits for reports, life goes on. Or not, in one case. Christopher's handling of the rival garbage collectors is to invite round a young man called Emil on the pretense of a coke deal and then murder him right there in the pork store (in the pilot it was the real life Centanni's), evidently believing that dumping his body in their rival's dumpster will send the message that "Louis Brassi sleeps with the fishes". It is gently explained to him by enforcer Big Pussy that he both has the reference wrong AND the message it will send. Instead he advises that they dismember and bury the body to send a message that "nobody knows, but they know" what happened to Emil. This will come back to haunt Christopher later in the show, as will a surprising number of other things first introduced in this pilot episode. The Godfather references continue as Carmela watches a laser-disc (Good Lord we're old) with Father Intintola (played by a different actor in the pilot) and they discuss the Godfather movies, with Intintola's interest betraying that he too might be a bit of a tourist, enjoying a "safe" view of the mob lifestyle (he won't be the last throughout the series, including we the viewers). Unfortunately this leads to one of the more embarrassing missteps of the pilot, as Carmela overhears a noise and pulls out a ridiculous assault rifle thinking there is an intruder, only to discover Meadow had snuck out of the house. Furious, Carmela bans Meadow from her Aspen Ski Trip, which drives her insane with teen outrage. Tony, who of course is only in therapy because the tests came back negative, dismisses this as all stuff that will blow over. These dramas and problems are obviously common occurrences in his life, and of course the Carmela/Meadow stuff in particular is typical mother/daughter stuff. But when Melfi finally raises the specter of Depression, his immediate attempt to divert the subject is obvious and telling. He looks at her name, he establishes she is Italian, he attempts to turn her from a professional and an authority into - if not a sexual being, then a romantic figure. He posits that his mother would have loved them to get together, but she very smoothly stamps her status back down on him with a quiet reminder that she is DOCTOR Melfi, and then forces him to confront the very real and undeniable problems that Depression can cause. This sets Tony off, as he takes the chance to vent his frustration and stress out on an external source. People who have depression are weak. People who talk about their feelings are weak. Ergo he himself cannot have depression, or if he does he cannot talk about it, because that would make him - Tony Soprano! - weak too. Tony Soprano posted:Whatever happened to Gary Cooper? The strong, silent type. That was an American. He wasn't in touch with his feelings. See, they didn't realize that once they got Gary Cooper in touch with his feelings... they wouldn't be able to shut him up!   Melfi, a good psychiatrist, won't let him divert her or push her aside though. Clearly intimidated by his rage, she doesn't allow him to walk over her. When he rants that he understands Freud and therapy as a concept ("I had a semester and a half of college!") but that it doesn't work in his world, she calmly and firmly hauls him back on track by asking him again and again,"Do you have depression." When he finally admits it, and acknowledges it came from the ducks leaving, she sees the chance to push ahead but he rushes out instead, terrified by just how much she managed to get him to admit and unwilling to face up to what else she might pull out of him. It is this therapy session and the next one that stand out in the pilot, the model for most everything that would follow. Instead of being used as a framing device and a poor excuse for ill-advised narration (which can only cause negative comparisons to Goodfellas) it is Tony and Melfi going at it one-on-one and driving emotional reactions and exposing Tony to uncomfortable and perhaps unwelcome truths. Imagine if the Sopranos had continued in the vein of the pilot, with Melfi largely a cardboard cutout on a chair asking the odd question so Tony could narrate another story? Thank God we got more of this instead. After a disastrous trip to a retirement community he wants his mother to move into, Tony collapses again, once more in front of the rest of the family. Tony, obviously distraught at his percieved weakness, returns to therapy where he attempts to impress Melfi with that semester and a half of college intellect, before once again going on a rant about the weakness of modern society: particularly in regards to his "business", where nobody has "room for the penal experience" and everybody rats instead of maintaining their silence. He talks once again of a probably mythical past, obviously humiliated that he collapsed in front of his mother who lived through the Great Depression ("for her the Depression was a trip to Six Flags!") and is disgusted when Melfi offers him medication to help with his emotional issues. Thoughout the episode there has been a throughline of things not being what they once were, of everything running down and decaying. The garbage business isn't bringing in the money it used to, even young guys like Christopher are openly questioning whether Tony is "running things down". Things take a turn here, AFTER Tony starts therapy and medication, as he talks with an elderly loanshark/adviser who is a mentor to himself and an old friend of his father's, Hesh. Meeting with Christopher at the strip club run by Silvio Dante, Tony's second in charge, they discuss financial matters. Hesh is owed 250k on the gambling debts of Mahaffey, the deadbeat Tony and Christopher ran down earlier. He doesn't have the money, and after Hesh offers Tony a reasonable solution to his Junior/Artie problem (just get Artie out of town for 3 weeks so the restaurant isn't available), Tony comes up with a potential moneymaking idea. Mahaffey can start paying them money on fake claims from the HMO he works at, or pay back the money he doesn't have, or experience "a rainy night in Lyndhurst". While Carmela and Meadow continue to bicker, with Meadow devastating Carmela by refusing to take part in an annual tea tradition, Tony is so full of cheer that he doesn't bother to attend his next therapy session. Instead he takes Artie two cruise tickets and a bullshit story about getting them as comps. Artie of course takes it at face value and accepts the tickets, only for his wife later that night to tear him a new one for being such a naive idiot and demand he take them back. Meanwhile, Mahaffey has a VERY uncomfortable walk with Hesh and Big Pussy where he quickly realizes the dangers of saying no and agrees to help them fake HMO claims. Tony surreptitiously takes Prozac and plays golf before getting the good news that the Kolar Brothers withdrew their garbage bid, it seems everything is going his way after all, even the news that Artie is returning the tickets can't break his good mood. Tony and Melfi have their first meeting outside of her office (this will be a rarity throughout the series) as she gets a firsthand look at the status and power his role affords him. Waiting with her date to be seated at a popular restaurant (the hostess is played by Drea de Matteo, though this was not originally intended to be Adriana), she observes Tony and his girlfriend arrive and immediately be seated, though not before Tony happily greets her, thanks her for her "decorating tips" and displays his power by getting her and her date the seat they've been waiting for. It's an incredibly uncomfortable scene, if only for the way it shifts the power dynamic between Tony and Melfi. Their respective dates picks up on it too, as Irina later teases Tony on his boat The Stugots for the obvious intimate nature of his relationship with Melfi, while Melfi's date Nils recognizes Tony and presses her to reveal whether he is her patient (she is horrified of course, and refuses). More importantly though, let's not forget the dirtbag Maître d who helps Tony cheat on his wife!   Tony, convinced that his Prozac has cured all his woes, tells Carmela over dinner that he has to confess something. Her reaction is priceless, as she expects him to admit another affair, but she is delighted when she learns that not only is he on Prozac but he's on therapy. She gushes with pleasure, saying that while it doesn't address the soul it is a huge step forward and she is proud of him (though she still snorts when he says he is always completely honest with her). The two share a rather touching conversation about his parents (she doesn't like Livia!) and he assures her that Meadow doesn't hate her - it is a nice reminder that while he might be banging Irina, and sharing his hidden fears with his therapist, it is Carmela that he has the deepest, truest connection with. Sure would be nice if he wasn't banging Irina though! Even the news that Little Pussy is back in town and Junior's hit will happen soon won't bring him down, he's on top of the world now and knows how to deal with everything. At Meadow's volleyball game, he makes plans with Sil (who is there for his own daughter, Heather) and then walks with Meadow as she rants about how unfair Carmela is being not letting her go to Aspen. He gets sidetracked by the sight of a nearby Church and wonders inside, where in a rather beautiful, spontaneous moment he talks to her about how her Great Grandfather and his brother Frank helped build the Church they are currently sitting in. He admits they were on a crew of laborers, but they still had a hand in this: they couldn't design it, but they could build it, and it lasted. She actually stops to consider this, taking in the beauty of the place, and shares a moment with a father who is, for the first time in a long time, not wallowing so much in himself that he can actually be present. The beauty of this moment is its spontaneity. Tony will try to capture lightning in a bottle twice by having the same conversation years later with AJ, with hilarious results. Silvio blows up Artie's restaurant, because an emotionally healthy and positive Tony Soprano is still a Crime Boss and this seemed like a pretty reasonable idea to him. Tony returns to therapy for what he thinks will be the last time, telling Melfi that he is thinking clearly and is more present and open with his family. Her reply unbalances him, as she explains that prozac actually takes time to build up in the system to the point where it will actually affect emotions. He can't understand, then why is he feeling so much better? Because of the therapy, of course. He's actually opening up and talking about his issues and that helps. Pushing him further, she gets him to admit he really showed up to this session (remember he skipped the last) because of a dream he had the night before.  For a show that would capture dream logic better than almost any other show in history, the dream he recounts sounds like the amateurish scribblings of a hack. "I pushed my belly button and my penis fell off and a bird flew away with my penis", it sounds like something he is making up to try and impress her. But this surprisingly poor writing aside, Melfi takes the opportunity to push him on his fixation on the ducks that took up temporary residence in his swimming pool. She pushes him harder and harder, to the point where it almost feels like she is enforcing her own reading onto his. He grasps at that quickly - "I'm afraid I'm gonna lose my family!" - and when she asks what he is afraid of, he admits he doesn't know. That above scene feels like rather clumsy foreshadowing crammed into the end of the pilot to be paid off by Junior and Livia's conversation, but the benefit of hindsight allows me to give it a more forgiving reading. Melfi was so keen to push Tony to associate the ducks with his family, and he was so keen to understand what was wrong with himself, that they both embraced the idea haphazardly. One could argue (or not!) that the penultimate episode of the entire show finally reveals the lie of this, that Melfi overstepped and set herself on a path of aiding and ultimately enabling a sociopath to be better at covering up his many, many crimes. When first pressed as to why he was fixated on the ducks, Tony smiles and says it was a trip for these wild animals to come live in his pool. It's possible (or not!) that it really was as straightforward as this. That he was a monstrous humans being, a murderer and a thug who just so happened to really love wild animals and get a kick out of having them around. In any case, as the Sopranos gather once again to belatedly celebrate AJ's 13th birthday, things seem largely positive for Tony. He's back grilling meat, helping console a devastated Artie who can't believe a faulty stove burned down his restaurant, everybody around him saying it could have been worse. A furious Christopher loses his cool and, when pressed by Tony, complains that he hasn't gotten any thanks for his part in pushing back the Kolar Brothers. Tony, already demonstrating improved communication skills and anger management from his therapy, soothes his ego but then flies into a rage when Christopher admits that he's had offers to sell his story to Hollywood. Disturbingly, just as quickly as he's furious he's suddenly calm again, telling Christopher that he'd had offers too but those are distractions, and now they've opened up HMOs on top of the garbage business there is work to be done and money to be made for all of them. He walks Chris away, pointing out it's a beautiful day so what could be bad?  Tony has spent the episode complaining that things aren't like they were back in the day, that this new generation lacks the work ethic and strength of purpose of even his generation. But as he walks with one of those new generation kids looking to the future, Livia and Junior drive to the party echoing many of his same complaints. Or rather Junior does, as Livia carefully and purposefully allows him to drive the conversation himself. What starts initially as two old people complaining about the younger generation not valuing them quickly turns into Junior ranting about how he can't run his business the way he wants, with Tony sticking his nose in, and not paying the proper respect to New York! Things are down all across the board, alot of friends of theirs are complaining, and the mob is no longer recession proof. As he rants, Livia's face tightens as she ponders what is being said, especially as he - carefully eying her up from the side - lightly touches on the idea that maybe... just maybe something needs to be done about Tony. The episode ends on a cheerful note as the family gathers and heads inside to eat and celebrate AJ's birthday. But what I'll always remember is that horrible old man thinking he is being subtle as he suggests murdering his nephew to take his place, and Tony's own mother giving tacit approval in her silence, and that barest subtle smile that appears to trace over her lips.  It has been argued that Tony Soprano was an anti-hero, perhaps the first of the modern generation that birthed a renaissance in television drama. But while it is true he was a horrible, monstrous person, never let it be forgotten that the real villain of the piece, at least while Nancy Marchand was alive, was Livia Soprano. One of the most incredible, complex and horrific monsters in television history. We're just getting started on a wild loving ride. Season 1: The Pilot | 46 Long | Denial, Anger, Acceptance | Meadowlands | College | Pax Soprana | Down Neck | The Legend of Tennessee Moltisanti | Boca | A Hit Is a Hit | Nobody Knows Anything | Isabella | I Dream of Jeannie Cusamano Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2019 09:26
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I wrote and rewrote the above several times trying to keep it down to a somewhat reasonable size, so hopefully in amongst the rewrites I didn't lose a chunk of stuff that renders the rest of it a mess. I'm trying not to just do a straight recap but also avoid veering off into lengthy sidetracked discussions of what I think the ducks represent or anything. Anyway, just a few things that stood out to me most on rewatch: - What do you think of Tony's narration? Personally I hated it, and felt it was trying way too hard to ape Goodfellas/Henry Hill. I know Gandolfini had some speech therapy between the pilot and the next episode, but it really did feel like he was channeling Ray Liotta in parts. - Do you think Melfi pushed too hard her interpretation of the ducks on Tony? It really did feel forced to me but that really might just have been that they wanted some form of closure/resolution in the pilot - It's remarkable how fully formed a lot of the characters already are, how much is in place for stuff that will come to fruition many episodes or even many seasons down the track. How much I wonder was planned from the beginning and how much was worked back from or just turned out that way by lucky coincidence. Particularly stuff like Big Pussy and Christopher dumping Emil's body, Christopher commenting on his cousin's girlfriend being a development girl in Hollywood, or Carmella's in-depth knowledge of Tony's infidelities. - Is there anything quite as embarrassing in the series as Carmella whipping out the assault rifle? Maybe Carmella walking in slow-mo from that teacher she was having sex with? - Has there ever been a more monstrous character than Livia Soprano? Is Livia smiling at the end there when Junior suggests murdering Tony?
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Mar 10, 2019 09:33
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Much like looking at The Rock when he was young, it's weird looking at a man the size of Gandolfini in the pilot and thinking jesus he's small there.
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Mar 10, 2019 09:56
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Yeah, it wasn’t like he was a small guy either, he just got so much bigger. There was over a year between the pilot and episode 2 but even so he put on 60 pounds between those episodes, which is nuts.
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Mar 10, 2019 10:34
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Jerusalem, that post was heckin' rad and I can't wait to read the next episode. Might be time for a rewatch tbh, it's been a while since my last.
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Mar 10, 2019 11:20
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Great writeup, can't wait for more! I started a rewatch about two months ago, but just real slow, maybe two episodes every weekend. The pilot is so weird. The wacky Benny Hill like attack on the HMO guy always bump me, it's like a different show. And Meadow's nose, oh marone.
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Mar 10, 2019 14:26
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Jerusalem posted:I wrote and rewrote the above several times trying to keep it down to a somewhat reasonable size, so hopefully in amongst the rewrites I didn't lose a chunk of stuff that renders the rest of it a mess. I'm trying not to just do a straight recap but also avoid veering off into lengthy sidetracked discussions of what I think the ducks represent or anything. I actually really like the pilot for what it is, a more broadly comedic showcase of what the series could offer before David Chase really knew what sort of tone and content he'd be able to sell. In that spirit I can sort of forgive stuff like Carmela catching Meadow sneaking out, which we regret to inform you was cemented as canon by the reappearance of the Lawn Defence Kalashnikov in season 5. I probably have a harder time with how big they went for the Mahaffey beatdown scene; I know vicariously persecuting the American upper-middle class is a cornerstone of the series, but I know Chase at least regrets the doo-wop music. It's easily my favourite show, but as far as some of the writing in Sopranos embarrasses me it's side effects of how unequivocally caricatured the characters tend to become the further they are from the middle-aged/Italian-American/hetero-male axis that the series is filtered through. Sticking to what's corny rather than Actually Problematic, I am going to go left-field and say I really didn't care for the bit at Johnny Sack's daughter's wedding where they discuss the Rusty hit at the table and we're treated to some old people ear-trumpet schtick. I feel like a fair chunk of the millennial character dialogue would also qualify were I prepared to remember it. The narration is definitely inelegant but fine for one episode as a device for concisely introducing the cast and setup, and I definitely like the duck dream more than you do, which I think is sold on the little details and Tony's aversion to get to the point of it. Plus it's laying out the central stakes of the show and I don't know how better to arrive at that inside of 60 minutes. I think Melfi is pushing him only because he's all but begging her to, but if you want to read it as Melfi needing to prove that there's meaningful potential in attempting to treat Tony, I think that works fine too.
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Mar 10, 2019 14:51
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Jerusalem posted:I wrote and rewrote the above several times trying to keep it down to a somewhat reasonable size, so hopefully in amongst the rewrites I didn't lose a chunk of stuff that renders the rest of it a mess. I'm trying not to just do a straight recap but also avoid veering off into lengthy sidetracked discussions of what I think the ducks represent or anything. Not only was the narration channeling Scorsese, but the use of music was too. Scorsese typically uses classic rock or other popular songs during particularly violent scenes. Anyways, yeah it was pretty obvious they were aping Scorsese and I’m glad they didn’t continue it because the show didn’t really need it. Great write up. edit: I was wrong about the particular song I think. I was really channeling Scorsese too much. Mahoning fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 15:21
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UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST posted:. I feel like a fair chunk of the millennial character dialogue would also qualify were I prepared to remember it. Ha yes. The dialogue when Meadow or AJ are hanging out with their friends is really cringeworthy sometimes, and comes off as adults trying to write how they think kids talk. My favorite is when AJ’s cutting class and hanging out in front of a convenience store. One of his skateboarding friends busts out with “My mom's all, ‘get involved.’ It's like, hello, i am involved... with boarding.”
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Mar 10, 2019 17:48
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