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while we're discussing Football Rules, i say ban, and if necessary arrest, all kickers
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Jan 24, 2019 03:38
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indigi posted:afaict that WPA/EPA is calculated the same way it is for regulation time which doesn't operate under the assumption that a TD ends the game and a FG probably ends the game. but I do agree that assuming winning the coinflip guarantees a win is absurd. it just makes it more likely i think it's very likely that the biggest problem is that the coin flip appears to be unjust and pisses people off, not that it's actually unjust
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Jan 24, 2019 03:59
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Feels Villeneuve posted:i think it's very likely that the biggest problem is that the coin flip appears to be unjust and pisses people off, not that it's actually unjust The problem at least insofar as it applies to Patriots/Chiefs (you know, the one people are annoyed about) is that the flip is significantly magnified in importance by having a good offence (or your opponent a bad defense). Overtime games that end on the second or third drive don't cause controversy. Overtime games that end on the first drive have a distinct tendency to cause controversy. This is why the sudden death TD rule gets so much scrutiny for being a lovely rule (because it is). Just make it minimum one drive each. Literally that's all that needs to happen for all the bitching about fairness to go out the window.
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Jan 24, 2019 04:18
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They also seem to be ignoring the Saints game. In which a world class, "The Game Is OVER." level offense got the ball but didn't win. The Patriot's scoring aTD wasn't locked in stone once they got the ball. There were multiple time their drive could have stalled. if Julian Edelman is covered better on any of the third and longs then the game goes the Chiefs way. Tony Romo was calling where the ball should go based on the coverage he saw. Teams will sometimes show one coverage and go into another and if the Chiefs had done that and that one spot where the ball HAS TO GO suddenly has a white jersey the this mantra of "The flip of the coin gives an unfair advantage to the team that wins it" goes bye bye and the Thread for Laughing at the Patriots takes off.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:03
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Darth Brooks posted:They also seem to be ignoring the Saints game. In which a world class, "The Game Is OVER." level offense got the ball but didn't win. The Patriot's scoring aTD wasn't locked in stone once they got the ball. There were multiple time their drive could have stalled. if Julian Edelman is covered better on any of the third and longs then the game goes the Chiefs way. The Saints haven't had a world class offense since like Week 13 when they got shutout by the Cowboys. They struggled horribly down the stretch. From end of November to the end of December they dropped a full 10 ppg (to a truly world class 19.3). The Chiefs defense sucked, it's true, there's no excusing that. The part that's lovely is the Pats offense (good) got matched up against the Chiefs defense (bad), and the TD ended the game before we got to the Chiefs offense (great) matched up against the Pats defense (better than the Chiefs). The Pats never had to play defense in OT. In the circumstance of "good offense versus lovely defense", the coinflip won the game. And that's the part that everybody complaining is complaining about. When an OT period gets to the second drive the controversial part of it goes out the window because both sides get a fair shot at playing a truncated facsimile of a game. Instead of the massive disappointment for 85% of the viewing audience we actually got.
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Jan 24, 2019 06:30
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You're mistaking resulting outcome for potential outcome.
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Jan 24, 2019 07:30
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Darth Brooks posted:You're mistaking resulting outcome for potential outcome. No, I'm suggesting that the conditions that make a coin toss the defacto result of the game can be mitigated in a way that makes the game "feel" fair by having a minimum of one possession per team whether the first possession goes for a TD or not.
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Jan 24, 2019 07:48
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Just get rid of the coin entirely and award the decision to kick or receive to the home team. Winning the flip is advantageous and can help determine the outcome of a game, and it also exists out of anything actually relating to the game, so just make it a factor of home field advantage then.
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Jan 24, 2019 11:27
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Strobe posted:No, I'm suggesting that the conditions that make a coin toss the defacto result of the game can be mitigated in a way that makes the game "feel" fair by having a minimum of one possession per team whether the first possession goes for a TD or not. I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp lol
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Jan 24, 2019 14:51
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weird Asian candy posted:I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp lol If you interpret disagreement as misunderstanding it's no wonder you can't.
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Jan 24, 2019 15:20
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If you don't get the ball first your defense better make the stop. Reid should've seen his defense was getting tired & called a timeout to give his team time. The Saints won the coin flip & Brees threw an interception. Hell, the Patriots went into overtime with the Broncos in a regular season game in 2013 and gave HOF quarterback Peyton Manning the ball and still won. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy_sHN0y3pM I could've sworn there was a saying that "defense wins championships." 
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Jan 24, 2019 15:46
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They gave Manning the ball because the winner of the coin toss can either choose to receive the ball, OR choose which side of the field they want to kick off from. It was windy as poo poo and Belichick felt that having the wind at their back was a bigger advantage than getting the ball first.
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Jan 24, 2019 15:50
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Strobe posted:If you interpret disagreement as misunderstanding it's no wonder you can't. Yea that’s not it at all but I digress...
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Jan 24, 2019 16:06
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:They gave Manning the ball because the winner of the coin toss can either choose to receive the ball, OR choose which side of the field they want to kick off from. It was windy as poo poo and Belichick felt that having the wind at their back was a bigger advantage than getting the ball first. True, but with that argument you can say "all teams should be in domes to take away the possibility of weather affecting the game." Kansas City was skating by the entire season with a great offense covering the fact their defense wasn't great and it got exposed in the AFCCG. Be honest, would y'all be saying the OT rules should be changed if the Chiefs won the coin toss & won with a touchdown drive?
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Jan 24, 2019 16:38
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Android Apocalypse posted:True, but with that argument you can say "all teams should be in domes to take away the possibility of weather affecting the game." Kansas City was skating by the entire season with a great offense covering the fact their defense wasn't great and it got exposed in the AFCCG. In this particular case? No, but that's 100% because it's the Patriots and they deserve every bullshit bad break that can happen? Literally anyone else? Would definitely feel bad about it.
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Jan 24, 2019 16:42
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Unless you are fine with going back to the old way of FGs being able to end OT, there's no reason arbitrarily choose that a touchdown can end the period. If the concern is injuries, then go back to a FG can end it. Or even better, just assign the tie or conduct a literal coinflip on the field to determine the winner. If the goal is to measure actual ability, then both teams should be allowed to possess the ball over a fixed time, or some other skills measurement should be used. Expecting the defense to make a stop when the NFL is actively working to increase scoring a neuter defenses is some idiotic bullshit. Yes, the Saints received the ball and lost, but it was a freak play where the ball literally landed on his stomach while he was on the ground. This issue is only exasperated in the playoffs when the only teams still left are all top tier offenses. If the league is being designed so defenses are inherently unequal to offeses, how is it fair to expect each side to have an equal chance of victory in OT?
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Jan 24, 2019 16:57
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Keep the coin toss, abolish the kickoff. Winning team can defer or accept the ball, they start at 4th & 15 on their 35yd line. You play out the whole 10 mins, no challenges, no Timeouts, 2min warning still in play, out of bounds doesnt stop the clock.
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Jan 24, 2019 17:04
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if offenses in playoff games are as world class unstoppable as people say, then making it so both teams have to touch the ball is just kicking the can down the road
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Jan 24, 2019 17:50
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Feels Villeneuve posted:if offenses in playoff games are as world class unstoppable as people say, then making it so both teams have to touch the ball is just kicking the can down the road Literally no one is saying this
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Jan 24, 2019 18:07
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Two world class offenses trading touchdowns for hours upon hours, over and over, until a ref blows a key call. Patriots win.
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Jan 24, 2019 21:00
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Change the rules of football back to where defense is of the same importance
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Jan 24, 2019 21:02
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quote:The California Interscholastic Federation introduced the California tiebreaker in 1968, and the state’s high school football districts used the system through the 1970s and ’80s. The California tiebreaker is, to put it in the simplest possible terms, like tug-of-war without the rope. insane
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Jan 24, 2019 21:25
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Change the rules of football so the Bengals win every game
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Jan 24, 2019 21:26
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Wow. So they just take turns on offense wherever the ball is down until someone scores? Like a football version of tug of war? I'm down, let's goooooooo!
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Jan 24, 2019 21:30
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Cavauro posted:Change the rules of football back to where defense is of the same importance i mean yeah this is the actual answer, the conversation can only really happen when you decide football is fundamentally an offense vs offense game which it hasnt been until very recently
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Jan 24, 2019 21:32
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This loving owns
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Jan 24, 2019 21:56
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General Dog posted:This loving owns This is the only suggestion I've heard so far that sounds better than the way it is right now. Fairly quick, exciting, probably lots of tricky plays, rarely going to be a tie again requiring more plays. Adding one point at a time would also lead us to an orgy of Scorigami to defile out tiny minds with. Downside is that I don't think it plays well with PI being a spot foul. You can just chuck and duck and hope to get the flag, and the other team is super effed in a way that they might not be in a normal game if they could force them into a field goal because game is just going to end at a number of plays instead of by time. It also doesn't really allow for a hurry-up offense to leverage that. Also, it's fun, so the NFL will never ever loving do this. It's not like this is all a game.
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Jan 25, 2019 01:07
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Do this instead of the Pro Bowl
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Jan 25, 2019 02:06
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You've got 60 minutes of game time, 3 hours of prime time and 400 truck commercials. If you can't get it done with that, and you can't stop a drive from getting in your own end zone, then gently caress you and your soft limp noodle team Dont @ me
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Jan 25, 2019 16:17
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Android Apocalypse posted:True, but with that argument you can say "all teams should be in domes to take away the possibility of weather affecting the game." Kansas City was skating by the entire season with a great offense covering the fact their defense wasn't great and it got exposed in the AFCCG. i've been saying the rules should be changed and the pats won a super bowl and this game thanks to those rules. i don't find it fair even if it helped the team i root for.
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Jan 25, 2019 17:58
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Android Apocalypse posted:Be honest, would y'all be saying the OT rules should be changed if the Chiefs won the coin toss & won with a touchdown drive? Yes. And I realize it sounds childish to be all "it's not fair" but I have long believed that both sides should at least have equal opportunity in OT.
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Jan 25, 2019 18:01
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Suggestion 1: head to head long field goal competion. Start with 40 yd FG attempts and no rush, just a kicker/holder. Each team's kickers alternate attempts and get 3 attempts to make a FG at each distance. Once you're successful, you stop kicking from the current distance and move back 5 yards. OT is over when 1 or both kickers miss all 3 attempts at the current distance. Whomever has the longest successful FG wins. If both teams end at the same distance, the team with the least number of misses at the previously successful distance wins. Ex: team A is successful at 40, 45 and 50. Team B is successful at 40 and 45 but misses 3 times at 50 yds. Result: Team A wins Ex: both teams are successful at 40, 45, 50 and 55 but miss all 3 at 60 yds. While Team A kicker was kicking at 55 yds, he missed twice before making the 3rd attempt. Team B kicker made his first attempt at 55 yds. Result: Team B wins. Suggestion 2: progressive 2pt conversion style tradeoff. Start at the 2 yd line, each team gets 1 scrimmage down to score a TD. If one team scores and the other does not, the game is over. If both fail, replay at same yd line. If both score, move back 2 yards and repeat.
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Jan 25, 2019 19:37
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Same as current system but no special teams. No kickoff (opening drive starts at 25), no punts, no field goals, no extra points.
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Jan 28, 2019 17:03
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nah posted:Same as current system but no special teams. No kickoff (opening drive starts at 25), no punts, no field goals, no extra points. No disrespect, but that's kind of stupid.
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Jan 28, 2019 17:59
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I can only accept that comment with the respect that was clearly intended
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Jan 28, 2019 18:05
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I don't really like any of the suggestions that start to not resemble the actual rules of football. The only gimmick I semi-like is the CFL "2-point conversions in OT only" stuff.
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Jan 28, 2019 18:07
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Regular season: no OT, it's just a tie. Playoffs: first touchdown wins.
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Jan 28, 2019 18:48
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Regular season: no OT, it's just a tie. Is "first touchdown wins" functionally that different from what we have now? If team B wins on a FG after team A has already had a possession where they failed to score, I have a hard time seeing a compelling argument that it shouldn't be over. With you 100% on just getting rid of OT in the regular season.
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Jan 28, 2019 18:52
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What would happen if every OT game this year just ended in a tie instead? Here's the new standings AFCE Patriots: 11-5 Dolphins: 6-9-1 Bills: 6-10 Jets: 4-11-1 AFCN Ravens: 10-4-2 Steelers: 9-6-1 Browns: 6-6-4 Bengals: 6-10 AFCS Colts: 10-5-1 Texans: 9-5-2 Titans: 8-7-1 Jaguars: 5-11 AFCW Chargers: 12-4 Chiefs: 11-4-1 Broncos: 6-10 Raiders: 3-12-1 NFCE Cowboys: 9-5-2 Eagles: 9-5-2 Redskins: 7-9 Giants: 4-11-1 NFCN Bears: 12-2-2 Vikings: 8-7-1 Lions: 6-10 Packers: 5-9-2 NFCS Saints: 12-3-1 Falcons: 7-8-1 Panthers: 7-9 Bucs: 4-11-1 NFCW Rams: 13-3 Seahawks: 10-5-1 49ers: 3-12-1 Cardinals: 3-13 I didn't look at tiebreakers sorry Couple notes: - Chargers new #1 seed over Chiefs - Colts win division over Texans - Bears #2 seed over Saints - lol Browns
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Jan 28, 2019 19:06
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I'd like to believe the coaches would be more aggressive in going for the win in regulation if there was no overtime; but I know in my heart of hearts they wouldn't, and that 90% of these overtime games would've still ended in ties.
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Jan 28, 2019 19:41
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