Gen Con: Using 52nd Edition Rules, Crits On 20-19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Gen Con: Using 52nd Edition Rules, Crits On 20-19

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

so glad they did exhibitor housing earlier this week. I've been in the hospital since Friday and I can't imagine the anxiety the housing lottery would have added on while here if I had to either miss it or deal with it while doctors are doing unspeakable things to me.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2019 00:06

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 17:30

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Yay, out of the hospital and ready for Gen Con! I think I mentioned it on the groupme but am thinking of doing a crowdsourced image archives project for gen con on https://www.best50yearsofgaming.com. I don't know I'll get it sup up in time for 2019 since I have a ton going on between now and then (fulfilling Bee Lives, getting the Bee Lives public launch at our Gen Con booth ready, designing a new game, writing an RPG book, and then for my day job we are moving to a new library on campus this summer). Super excited, as usual, and registering for Gary Con events this past week has just reminded me it is the start of 2019 con season!

# ¿ Jan 30, 2019 21:20

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Lots of way to do it, if you mean how they do it currently in organized play its through an event they call the open. I can detail it more tomorrow if you like. Way back when it was a lot of competitive play, including two parties in the same dungeon there to kill each other.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 04:33

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

The official competitive format for D&D 5e is called the Open. They've been making one of them per year for the past 3 years and it debuts at Origins. The first two Opens were a little closer to traditional D&D competitive formats, but they experimented with the most recent one (which I'll get to in a minute). I DMed a table for the first two 5e opens. Each DM is given a scoring rubric that the players don't know about. I mean, they know they are being scored but they don't know what actions give them positive points, which give them negative, and which are neutral. The modules are created in a way to have multiple rooms that are essentially each separate encounters and puzzles. There are also 2 separate puzzle events where the tables have to get information from each other and the first few tables to complete the puzzles win. The gameplay itself at each individual table is much more challenging, mechanically at least, and is meant to test the players' ability to work together and their knowledge of their characters. As DMs, we were told to be openly hostile to the players. Not in the sense of cheating or anything, but basically pull no punches. If someone was knocked unconcious and they were fighting intelligent enemies they were to strike while the character was down to finish them off (this is usually a no-no in general organized play). These Opens have all had methods of getting players back between encounters so it wasn't supposed to be a big deal, and there were even special certs for the player who was first killed, died the most times etc. That said, it was still somewhat traumatic for players who were not use to it. Running the first open at GameHole Con I killed one players character 3 times in the same encounter and it bothered them so much they started to cry at the table and went to talk to Admin who then asked me to leave their character be for a while.

All of the above is a lot of fun if you aren't use to playing so and want some variety. Its challenging, especially with the time crunch. How good it is as a competition I am not sure, though. Each DM is different, some are a lot tougher on the players than others, etc. and the scoring is all over the place. I know the first Open I ran my table scored something like -75 points and the winning table had something over 2000 points and me and several of the other DMs were like how is a score that high even possible.

The newest and current Open they changed things and I am personally less of a fan. I think its fine what they did, but its really an entirely new format and they should have just made it a different event type. Instead of the above, everyone was given a pregenerated tier 1 character at the start of the event. The character is only used for the open, and the goals and challenges the players had to work through were almost entirely role play based with both competition and collaboration between the tables. I'm glad they did something that is supposed to be competitive with more of an RP focus but they went so far in that direction there was baisically no combat and little mechanics of the game involved. Some people were also turned off because they couldn't use their own characters for the event.

I'm not 100% when the open format was started but it was also around in 4E. I played in the Open at Gen Con 2012 and it was a lot of fun, very intense. We were all given pre-generated level 22 characters about 2 months before Gen Con so we could learn how to use their abilities to the best of our advantage. The day of the event, you and your party were told the scenario and you had to achieve a very specific goal in the module to beat it. No resurrections unless someone in your party could cast it. If you died you were out. There was also a scoring rubric the DM had but we didn't. The top tables (I believe top 4) were invited back to play again on Sunday with the top couple getting prizes. It was extremely challenging and a lot of fun. Some of the Opens were printed in Dungeon magazine and I believe the Lair Assault store events (never released for retail but you can find some of them on ebay) were essentially designed as this same format.

Waaaay way back in the day they ran tournaments at cons and later made them modules. This is how adventures like the Shrine of Tamoachon came into being. I don't know how they did it, but players had to get through that entire module in 4 hours to beat it and potentially win. Thats why, in that module, there is a poison gas in the air that hurts the players every few rounds. It was designed that way to remind them they were on a time crunch and had to keep moving (and also help kill them faster). If I remember correctly, all of the AD&D modules of the C series were originally tournaments.

In the 70s and possibly early 80s there were also some tournaments where the adventuring parties were supposed to go into a dungeon with the purpose of finding and killing each other. There isn't a ton of information on how these tournaments went but they were a thing.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 23:08

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Granted, I am not 100% on the up and up as to what is going on with Vampire, but perhaps they are offering that because running VtM 5e at Gen Con will get you branded as in the RPG alt right? I know they last minute pulled out of Pax unplugged because of that.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2019 21:29

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I doubt they will. Likely for legal reasons. They arent going to publically post their ban list for sure. I think the best thing we can hope for is a statement about how they value the safety of attendees and pointing to their anti harassment policy.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2019 00:17

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I dunno, Gen Con is a pretty big org, and saying publically you will actively prevent someone from attending something is different from saying you wont work with them. It's not like they need to fire the person, just not sign on any new contracts. It would also be a kind of weird precedent, in that would people then expect gen con to let the public know everytime they ban someone and why?

Do what you feel is best, obviously, but I sincerely dont think it's as simple for gen con as a small publisher just saying they wont do more freelance work with someone.

Where is the lotfp statement? I haven't seen anything from them yet.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2019 00:30

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

That's not an lotfp project

# ¿ Feb 16, 2019 00:37

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

If people want to do an online group viewing of Hobocon it could be arranged. Last year it was just me and one other, but we had fun despite it being a terrible film. That was organized at the last minute though so I am not surprised it was poorly attended. I have a couple of hours of footage from Gen Con in the 90s I wish I could share but I can't

I also have Uber Goober which, while also a bad film, does contain an ok amount of footage from Gen Con in the late 90s.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386836/

# ¿ Feb 18, 2019 20:47

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

It's related to the doc, yeah, that's the jist of it.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2019 00:14

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

There were a whole bunch of Gen Cons in Europe, Australia, and elsewhere:

http://best50yearsingaming.com/neatline/fullscreen/gen-con-map#records/16

# ¿ Feb 22, 2019 17:35

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Dr. Quarex posted:

Actually I wonder if a fair number of them were groups licensing the name to give their event some sort of greater credibility? That would not explain why there was a sudden explosion when Peter Adkison bought the whole shebang though. And there were like a dozen different Gens-Con Europe locations 8one6, behold the map and tremble in horror

According to, I believe, Mike Carr, Gen Con West, South, and East were all run by people licensing the names. They went horribly, though, and he told me it was going so bad that most of TSR loaded up in cars and drove to the 2nd (and final) Gen Con East to prevent it from being a complete dumpster fire.

Yeah, here it is:

Nesbit37 interviewing Mike Carr posted:

Shoemaker: Gen Con, as we know it today, that is in Indianapolis, is not the only Gen Con that has happened. I know when you were working for TSR you were all shipped off to Gen Con East at one point. Could you talk a little bit about what that was like and how it was different from the main event that was in Wisconsin at the time?

Carr: That's an interesting question and one of the side notes of the history of Gen Con I think is the fact that TSR tried to use the Gen Con name and encourage groups, or I think it was probably more likely that groups in other areas; Jacksonville, Florida had a Gen Con South, and they asked "could we call our convention Gen Con South?" and could somebody from TSR make the trip to Jacksonville, which I did at least once. Then Gen Con east was in Chester Pennsylvania for several years and that was a good thing. It was a success. Again it was a relatively modest affair in both cases, but, you know we're talking hundreds of people rather than thousands of people. But it was a success, so I guess it was inevitable that as time moved on those events faded and at some point stopped. They were emulations, I guess, of the great Gen Con and TSR certainly did support them by sending people to them. We made a journey to Gen Con East, Brian Blume insisted that we drive straight through. It was 14 or 16 hours, endless trip, we had to drive through Chicago of course and past Cleveland and all the way to Baltimore without stopping or sleeping other than some quick meals. So I don't have a fond recollection of at least the road trip portion of that. When you get out into other areas, and especially in those days, going to Jacksonville to meet people in Florida who loved D&D and other games and going to Chester, Pennsylvania near Philly and again meeting people who, you know, didn't have the wherewithal to come to Gen Con in Lake Geneva, usually because they were young and they were college students and nobody had any money just to meet them and, you know, see their appreciation for people from TSR making the trip to their backyard and having these events. It was very gratifying. The cool thing I think, even now, all these many years later is just the genuine interest and enthusiasm and excitement that a lot of these gamers have, whether your favorite game is D&D, or Dawn Patrol or anything else. Just meeting people at these events is just a wonderful treat because they express their appreciation and many times I've had people say "Oh, I've played your B1 module, In Search of the Unknown, it was one of my first experiences with Dungeons & Dragons, I just had the greatest time and I just want to shake your hand." and how cool is that. I talked to a guy yesterday who said that he's run the B1 module many, many times for decades. I said well, how many times do you think you've run it? This may sound crazy but I've probably run it 100 times. I've got 5 different versions of it, riffing off of what you've created just to kind of keep it fresh so that people will play it again. So its not the same for them and they've got a few surprises along the way. Just meeting the gamers and stuff at these conventions is great. Not to mention the camaraderie of interacting with your fellow gamers or meeting new people and again I talked to some people that said "Oh I met somebody at a convention, you know, 30 years ago and we've stayed friends ever since." The friendship aspect and the social side of this activity is wonderful, and really conventions promelgate that and offer the opportunity to mix with other gamers and make new friends.

More oral histories here:
http://best50yearsingaming.com/exhibits/show/interviews

# ¿ Feb 22, 2019 20:56

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Dr. Quarex posted:

Making a new reply because I feel like this thing I found while searching for more information on Gen Con East needs to be highlighted: here is the passive-aggressive blog of someone who is mad that Gen-Con "left the Midwest"

I like how that was put together as a professional proposal as if Gen Con didn't do all of it's own research on that topic, doesn't see a million posts a year on their forums and other social media about moving to other cities, and actually cares about a random person trying to court them to their hometown. I bet he didn't he even send that proposal to Adrienne (not that it would have mattered).

# ¿ Feb 22, 2019 21:07

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Pollyanna posted:

Oh my god, why would anyone license their own name and trademark without vetting the hell out of the recipients?

Welcome to the world of gaming, where even successful companies are run by people with little to no business acumen. A fine tradition largely carried on to this day.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2019 17:00

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I don't remember if it was in this thread or the groupme, but it was proposed to do another online group viewing of Gen Con related films. Last year we did one very last minute one of Hobocon, which was fun but sparsely attended mainly because it was put together at the last second.

I know Gen Con feels super far away but its going to be here soon. I've got Gary Con next week, Unpub 9 a little over a week after that, and then Origins will be here before you know it and welp, then the nerd train to Indy starts going.

Do we want to get something on the calendar, even if its a month or two off (you can tell I am turning 40 this year based on my desire to schedule things)?

I have numerous films that may fit the bill:

Hobocon - 3 morons decide to go spend the weekend at Gen Con with no money and no room and try to survive the con by begging for food and crash space from other attendees. (Gen Con 2008 if memory serves)

Uber Goober - a 2004 independent documentary film focusing on people who play role-playing games. The film was directed by Steve Metze and features interviews with Gary Gygax, Peter Adkison, Mike Stackpole and Bob Larson, amongst others. The film has screened at theatres, film festivals, and gaming conventions, winning the award for "Best Film" at Gen Con Indianapolis, 2004.

Gamers: The Hand of Fate - An actually good movie about tabletop gaming. Deals with themes of women in gaming, specifically CCGs. Humerous at times, and a little less than half of it takes place at Gen Con (2013 or 2014 if memory serves)

TSR: The Fantasy Factory - This one isn't really about Gen Con at all, is on youtube, and only 22 minutes long so I dunno: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq8G-gjpWM8

City Confidential: Deadly Games in Little Washington - In 1988, a North Carolina State University student, Chris Pritchard, tried to live out his obsession with the fantasy game Dungeons and Dragons when he shot his mother and father-in-law, Bonnie and Lieth Von Stein.

Cruel Doubt - This is a dramatization of the Von Stein stuff mentioned above in City Confidential. A 1992 miniseries starring Blythe Danner and Matt McGrath, as well as Danner's daughter, Gwyneth Paltrow. The film was broadcast in two parts on NBC in the United States and on CTV in Canada on May 17 and May 19, 1992. Ed Asner, Adam Baldwin and Dennis Farina also star. The miniseries is based on the 1991 true crime book Cruel Doubt by Joe McGinniss, which documents the 1988 murder of Lieth Von Stein by his stepson, Chris Pritchard, and two friends, James Upchurch and Gerald Neal Henderson.

Skullduggery - Five anxious players gather for a medieval board game where merciless warlocks battle for ultimate occult power. But something is playing -- and it's no longer just a game. Some unspeakable evil is manipulating an unwitting player to play out a blood-letting orgy of unrelenting horror.

Note that most of the above are terrible, fair warning.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2019 19:53

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Oh yeah, there are definitely some others. I forgot about Of Dice and Men. There is also "0 Charisma," which I think I don't like but I can't make up my mind about it. It's definitely painful to watch but I think that's what the creators were going for.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2019 20:01

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Dr. Quarex posted:

Thank you Nesbit37 for that list, I am basically stoked to watch all of them. I suspect my "most free on weekday nights" schedule is hardly agreeable to the average person who might join this project; maybe we should have like a monthly session with a movie or two on varying days of the week and eventually watch everything?

That's fine by me. FYI, I am virtually always busy Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday evenings and Sunday afternoons. Monday evenings are my most reliable free evenings, though Wednesday's may be a possibility since I usually play BloodBowl after work and that only goes to 8 at the absolute latest. Depends where everyone who wants to watch lives as well, I am GMT -5.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2019 16:55

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Dr. Quarex posted:

Wednesday is the day I am most singularly likely to have nothing going on and be sitting by myself on the couch in Captain Rat's living room, so I could get behind something like a semi-monthly viewing night (if we wanted to get through a lot of things by Gen-Con; monthly would probably make it seem more important, because obviously that is our intent)

I also may well be free Friday/Saturday/Sunday nights after like 9 P.M. Central (GMT-6) too

Should we make a doodle or something? Right now it sounds like this is just going to be a Quarex and Nesbit party.

Also, I am going to have surgery in mid-April that will keep me home for 2 weeks for recovery. Could just watch these horrible pieces of cinema on repeat then.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2019 00:01

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Gary con 2019 in one image

# ¿ Mar 10, 2019 07:28

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I'm mostly doing Bee Lives stuff, though hopefully I wont be as worn out every evening after the hall closes like I was last year. Need to get some gaming in after dinner this year.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2019 04:11

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Bee Coffee Roasters and The Ram are my mainstays there. God help us if the steak and shake goes, awakening the smelly beast and its wrath their bathrooms have kept sated all these years.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2019 01:01

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

BlackIronHeart posted:

For real, if that's an actual thing then we'll have to go to war with another state. Again.

Wisconsin looks way more like a hand than Michigan does. If you truly want to look like a mitten then give us back the UP. *opinion of a native wisconsinite*

# ¿ Apr 6, 2019 16:16

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I have a bunch of True Dungeon tokens I should probably dump. I decided I wanted to get into it more seriously about 3 years ago and spent more than I should have on tokens and did a few transmutes. After Gen Con that year I came to my senses and realized if I was going to spend my gaming money on something it should not be something that costs the better part of $100 per 2 hour experience plus extra money on it's collecting aspects (which honestly is what I think I enjoyed more than the dungeons themselves).

# ¿ Apr 8, 2019 21:08

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Gen Con time is more precious than gold. Suffer not the grognards.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2019 10:44

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

If anyone has high risk evening activity for Gen Con this year (high risk as in it could only be amazing or hilariously bad) let me know. I feel like I could use something like that to relax one of these evenings after running a booth all day.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2019 21:50

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

If you want to play mini's based tournaments go to Adepticon. It's all that convention is about, and if you like those things its a blast. But yeah, unless its some ridiculously obscure game tourny or a joke tourny or something skip them at Gen Con.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2019 22:17

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

True Dungeon is fun, it just isnt enough fun for the money it demands.

Despite the fact that they still run on Mech Warrior 2 the Battletech Pods are still awesome.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2019 01:49

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I did the blood bowl tourney 2 or 3 years. It was a lot of fun, but it ate the entire Saturday that year and I had some serious FOMO.

I've had more fun with smaller tournaments that are more like short special events. In 2012 or 2013 Mayfair held the worlda largest game of catan that had something like 500 players on the same endless board and was essentially a tournament. It took like 3 or 4 hours on, I think, Friday night, was a lot of fun and didn't leave me wondering what else I was missing.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2019 15:01

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Here is a shot of part of the table I was seated at for that Catan game/tournament. It was 2013, and had 1,000 players.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2019 15:11

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Definitely take off. At least for Friday if you're tight on days.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2019 20:52

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

It only grows from there. I now get in Tuesday and dont leave till monday.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2019 22:34

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Things don't start till 10am, and especially on Thursday the hall is ridonculous until the afternoon, so if half days are better than nothing.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2019 23:48

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Dr. Quarex posted:

Someone run a Goon game of simultaneous 4th and 5th Edition with a chaser of whatever the hell Pathfinder 2.0 is so I can finally have played all of those dumb things

If you weirdos want to play in a game as a bunch of demented rabbits let me know and I can maybe make that happen with the new Bunnies & Burrows edition. Pretty sure its the same thing as D&D 4e, 5e, and Pathfinder 2.0 rolled into one with a dash of OD&D thrown in for spice.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2019 05:08

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I can't imagine getting food delivered to you at Gen Con is a good idea. Actually, isn't it against the convention center rules? The hotels would be different I guess, but I know when we do that even at Gary Con it takes forever and has problems. I'm always terrified some random grognard is going to just take our pizzas.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2019 21:39

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I forgot all about Clustertruck. I haven't used them myself but I know Nellie raves about them.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2019 23:38

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I shall also be at Origins.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2019 18:43

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I've been told they are shooting for October but I haven't checked to confirm.

# ¿ May 2, 2019 17:53

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Everything food related seems to be failing at Indianapolis. I am pretty sure all that is open right now is the RAM, the Rathskeller, and the Steak and Shake. Pretty sure Steak and Shake survives due to the Lovecraftian beast that drives its shake machine from the sewers below.

# ¿ May 2, 2019 18:50

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

Agrias120 posted:

There's a TON of great places to eat in downtown Indy! Some of them are a short Uber ride away, but all are easily doable during an hour or two break in your schedule if you need to get away. It's in the OP, but my friend and I wrote up a list of places convenient to the Con to get food.

Maybe, but a larger than usual number of them (at least as far as Gen Con goers are concerned) have closed this past year. And uber to food? Never! That takes up valuable gaming, drinking, and sleeping time.

Some of the ones closed in the last 12 months of note, I am sure there are more:

Scotty's
Shula's (apparently there were 15 downtown steakhouses, now there are 10)
Red the Steakhouse
Hard Rock Cafe
Noodles & Co
Crispy-bird Fried Chicken
King David Dogs
Broken English (pretty sure this place opened up after Gen Con last year and is already closed)

# ¿ May 2, 2019 19:26

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 17:30

nesbit37: Dec 12, 2003; Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)

I wonder how many racists think people agree with them just because they drop their race bomb and run away without a response leaving the people too shocked to respond.

# ¿ May 2, 2019 21:34

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