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jabby posted:Nobody does meaningless bollocks like Chuka though, which is why he gets the top job. https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1101114828154916865?s=20 This exchange in the replies is  Edit: Chuka Umunna would have gotten 297 votes in 2015.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:15
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Borrovan posted:Yeah WLG do gently caress all apart from the odd event (but your dues still go to Momentum so I stick around), if your CLP isn't doing much & you cba to be the change there's not much doing. However:- if militant industrial unionism is your bag, Wales is one of the biggest IWW branches in the world, if you're anywhere near Cardiff there's usually a bunch going on (& you can join when you're a member of another Union, most of us are). Hmu if you want to know anything Being in Wales and not having any Momentum stuff to do because of a bunch of timewasters is super reminiscent of being in Northern Ireland Labour and having to defer to the SDLP. I was looking at the IWW local, I’m a PCS member advocate too but happy to double up. Still got a naïve attachment to parliamentarianism though.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:17
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Darth Walrus posted:Hezbollah does complicate things a little. Tunisia may be a better example, unless it went to poo poo while I wasn't looking. It's never clear to me exactly which areas constitute the Middle East, but Cyprus and Turkey both seem like they should count?
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Feb 28, 2019 22:21
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While we're talking about great TV episodes of our childhood, I always was fond of the Pingu episode where he gets in a fight with a seagull because it keeps on making GBS threads on him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iahl8cTZfeE
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Feb 28, 2019 22:21
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big scary monsters posted:It's never clear to me exactly which areas constitute the Middle East, but Cyprus and Turkey both seem like they should count? I'm not sure Turkey counts anymore if we're going for democracies tbf
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Feb 28, 2019 22:27
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Still my favourite of all their sketches, made all the better when you know Previn hadn't even rehearsed and just read the script on the plane.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:33
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team overhead smash posted:While we're talking about great TV episodes of our childhood, I always was fond of the Pingu episode where he gets in a fight with a seagull because it keeps on making GBS threads on him. Holy poo poo I had forgotten that this existed, thanks comrade internet friend.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:35
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Still my favourite of all their sketches, made all the better when you know Previn hadn't even rehearsed and just read the script on the plane. I get " video blocked in your country" so I had to watch it via hide my rear end proxy.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:50
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jabby posted:Nobody does meaningless bollocks like Chuka though, which is why he gets the top job. I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night, although I have taken the form of Chuka Umuna, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I... am a centrist.
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Feb 28, 2019 23:03
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forkboy84 posted:It doesn't stop being a democracy just because some folk voted for some bad dudes. It's a legal political party in Lebanon which has a significant amount of support from the country's Shia population, and for that matter only it's military wing is a proscribed group by the EU & even the UK (although that's in the process of changing here). It's part of the democratic process of Lebanon and while I certainly don't support them (oddly enough, religious extremists tend not to mash very well with my left-wing internationalism) it is what it is. You don't just get to ignore a democracy because some of the people support regressive shits, otherwise America isn't a democracy/republic/don't be a loving pedant. Doesn't mash to the point that your left-wing internationalism could reasonably be called a lie even. My international lefty-ism requires LGBT+ people being able to exist as non-negotiable, that's the obvious example. I'm in these threads saying brexit should be respected because democracy but I'm not totally married to that and still get pushback, but you're straight up saying government brutality and oppression of immutables because democracy. Weird. Vitamin P fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 23:18
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Vitamin P posted:Doesn't mash to the point that your left-wing internationalism could reasonably be called a lie even. My international lefty-ism requires LGBT people being able to exist as non-negotiable, that's the obvious example. accepting that something is democratic isn’t the same as endorsing it. bringing back the death penalty in the UK would have a democratic mandate
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Feb 28, 2019 23:21
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Once Upon A Time... Space was also one of those weird Channel 4 cartoons (I was partial to Jace and the Wheeled Warriors), and it had effectively the same characters as OUAT... Life but instead of being body cells they were normal people in a light space opera.
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Feb 28, 2019 23:35
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Filboid Studge posted:accepting that something is democratic isn’t the same as endorsing it. bringing back the death penalty in the UK would have a democratic mandate It would, you are supporting my point. Democracy and decency are both virtues and when they compete something eventually has to give. Lebanon is a perfect example of an utter failure of decency justified by a weak democratic mandate and it absolutely shouldn't be defended, I was shocked to see that just pass by in this thread. Brexit is bad but it has a strong democratic mandate. The death penalty is bad but would hypothetically have a strong democratic mandate. Hezbollah are immense orders of magnitude worse than either and have a weak democratic mandate.
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Feb 28, 2019 23:35
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Comrade Fakename posted:Once Upon A Time... Space was also one of those weird Channel 4 cartoons (I was partial to Jace and the Wheeled Warriors), and it had effectively the same characters as OUAT... Life but instead of being body cells they were normal people in a light space opera. Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors was by J Michael Straczynski, notable creator of Babylon 5 and also the story editor through the best period of the Real Ghostbusters and wrote one of the most "I can't believe they let you write that in a kids TV show" scripts ever in said Ghostbusters cartoon
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Feb 28, 2019 23:39
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Dear Terrorists: Houses of Parliament, Westminster, London SW1A 0AA  Blow it all up please. It's not like we're using it for it's intended purposes anyway. Diet Crack fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 23:41
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Was the Morecambe & Wise chat earlier a result of Andre Previn's death? I missed that. In case it wasn't posted, he died today I only just found out.
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Feb 28, 2019 23:44
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Filboid Studge posted:Being in Wales and not having any Momentum stuff to do because of a bunch of timewasters is super reminiscent of being in Northern Ireland Labour and having to defer to the SDLP. How feasible is it to try and single-handedly revive a moribund local Labour branch? You can't be the only motivated lefty out there, can you meet up with any officials and volunteer for a communication position and start getting the word out to try and get new people interested? I don't actually know, my CLP in a solid Labour London constituency is obviously very active but I haven't attended any meetings (yet).
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Feb 28, 2019 23:54
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Vitamin P posted:It would, you are supporting my point. Democracy and decency are both virtues and when they compete something eventually has to give. Lebanon is a perfect example of an utter failure of decency justified by a weak democratic mandate and it absolutely shouldn't be defended, I was shocked to see that just pass by in this thread. I think you’re seeing a defence where there is none, but I don’t want to put words into anyone’s mouth. Re. the local branch- it’s one of the Caerphilly ones. Saith, do you know anything about the scene up here? Wayne David is pretty meaningless and grandad-racist
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Feb 28, 2019 23:57
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Vitamin P posted:Doesn't mash to the point that your left-wing internationalism could reasonably be called a lie even. My international lefty-ism requires LGBT+ people being able to exist as non-negotiable, that's the obvious example. I practically said HEZBOLLAH ARE BAD and apparently you think I'm defending them by saying "Lebanon is a democracy even if 15% of people voted for religious fundamentalists", that's impressive. Saying something is a democracy isn't a value judgement that it's good for fucksake. I was just making a point that the "only democracy in the Middle East" line trotted out about Israel is not true. If you're discounting Lebanon as a democracy because of violent religious fanatics getting elected , boy, wait till you find out about America! Or for that matter, "the world's largest democracy", India. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 00:01
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Some of the constitutional emirates are no less a democracy than we are. Others are a little noble, true.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:07
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Especially since apparently the bar for 'democracy in the Middle East' is apartheid states that do war crimes.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:07
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forkboy84 posted:If you're discounting Lebanon as a democracy because of violent religious fanatics getting elected , boy, wait till you find out about America! I was actually halfway through apologising somewhat, I had read more defence of Lebanon into your post than you'd actually written, but okay please do explain how Lebanon is so morally superior to America. Go deep, because I always thought universal civil rights, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, less not more oppression of women, freedom of sexuality, I thought these were just morally superior to the alternative but apparently not please enlighten me.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:16
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you're still misreading forkboy's posts, vitamin p
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Mar 1, 2019 00:19
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Vitamin P posted:I was actually halfway through apologising somewhat, I had read more defence of Lebanon into your post than you'd actually written, but okay please do explain how Lebanon is so morally superior to America. Go deep, because I always thought universal civil rights, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, less not more oppression of women, freedom of sexuality, I thought these were just morally superior to the alternative but apparently not please enlighten me. You keep reading poo poo that isn't there. I didn't say Lebanon is better than America. Just pointed out that they also have elected violent religious fanatics. Anyway, deleted a bit which was probably a bit over the top and disproportionate. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 00:23
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ITT we sniff each country's poo poo to judge which smells the most
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Mar 1, 2019 00:24
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jabby posted:Nobody does meaningless bollocks like Chuka though, which is why he gets the top job. Did chukka just independently develop fascism
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Mar 1, 2019 00:25
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Nah, fascism is an ideology.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:26
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This is moderate insurgency.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:26
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Did chukka just independently develop fascism Third Way to Third Position isn't the biggest leap in the world. Especially for a former Blue Labour guy.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:29
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Filboid Studge posted:I think you’re seeing a defence where there is none, but I don’t want to put words into anyone’s mouth. A Cardiff CLP here, the main significant thing of the last month or so that hasn't really gotten much attention is stage 2 of the democracy review closing. Which could have some pretty significant consequences if some suggestions are implemented. The upcoming politics stuff that you mighy be interested in (although I've never been myself) is Merthyr Rising an arts, music and politics festival: http://www.merthyrrising.uk Obviously they'll be canvassing in Newport if your idea of a fun day out is travelling up there to knock doors. And I'm tempted to make an effort post before the National Conference in Llandudno in early April, if you can get nominated by your CLP it might be a fun weekend this year and last year it was a beautiful scorcher although being stuck in the conference hall as a delegate less so.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:29
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Darth Walrus posted:Third Way to Third Position isn't the biggest leap in the world. Especially for a former Blue Labour guy. I think Jezzinist's concern was on the statement of "populist offering... ...the left or the right" Like trying to combine the extremes of both wings to form some kind of... ...socialist nationalism?
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Mar 1, 2019 00:32
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Azza Bamboo posted:I think Jezzinist's concern was on the statement of "populist offering... ...the left or the right" No, I know what he meant. Try Googling the Third Position. You may find it hauntingly familiar. Kind of amazing (and yet strangely unsurprising) if a rich black Londoner with persistent rumours about his sexuality decides that's the tiger he wants to ride, though.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:36
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forkboy84 posted:You keep reading poo poo that isn't there. I didn't say Lebanon is better than America. Just pointed out that they also have elected violent religious fanatics. Hezbollah are absolutely violent religious fanatics, you are making an equivalence to I assume George Bush? I'm no fan of Bush but did he ever order the American police to execute political opponents on the rationale of their being gay? Did he ever authorise the use of chemical weapons? Did he ever violently eject people that didn't share his religion from America? No he didn't you're making a false equivalence and it's super dumb.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:38
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work camps are a sensible, non-ideological choice
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Mar 1, 2019 00:38
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Darth Walrus posted:No, I know what he meant. Try Googling the Third Position. You may find it hauntingly familiar. Kind of amazing (and yet strangely unsurprising) if a rich black Londoner with persistent rumours about his sexuality decides that's the tiger he wants to ride, though. I know about Blair's "Third Way" is that what the Third position is?
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Mar 1, 2019 00:42
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Darth Walrus posted:No, I know what he meant. Try Googling the Third Position. You may find it hauntingly familiar. Kind of amazing (and yet strangely unsurprising) if a rich black Londoner with persistent rumours about his sexuality decides that's the tiger he wants to ride, though. Vitamin P posted:I'm no fan of Bush but did he ever order the American police to execute political opponents on the rationale of their being gay?
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Mar 1, 2019 00:42
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Marxist-Jezzinist posted:Did chukka just independently develop fascism I think it happened a while ago but he certainly just independently expressed it yes.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:46
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Azza Bamboo posted:I know about Blair's "Third Way" is that what the Third position is? It's the third of the three positions: normal, doggy and on top.
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Mar 1, 2019 00:51
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Azza Bamboo posted:I know about Blair's "Third Way" is that what the Third position is? Here you go. Guavanaut posted:Third Position is reactionary right-wing cultural views and radical left-wing economic views that conveniently get forgotten, he's going for reactionary right-wing economic views and maybe some radical left-wing social views that conveniently get forgotten. Blue Labour was all about using racism to push left-wing economics (and/or using left-wing economics to cover for racism). Chuka's voting record in the Miliband years is actually pretty consistent with that, and when Eaton brings it up in the article we're chatting about, he says it's not a bad idea. quote:Pollsters contend that the “unfilled space” in British politics is not for the liberal centrism associated with Umunna and his fellow defectors but for left conservatism. A YouGov survey last year on the “most fertile ground for a new party” found that the views deemed most unrepresented included “the justice system is not harsh enough” (24 per cent), “immigration restrictions should be tighter” (16 per cent), “Britain should not militarily intervene in other countries” (13 per cent) and “government should regulate big business more” (12 per cent).
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Mar 1, 2019 00:53
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I completely loathe that man
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Mar 1, 2019 00:54
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