What is Wealth?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What is Wealth?

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Wistful of Dollars posted:

Wealth is freedom from want.

That's actually a pretty good philosophical answer.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2019 09:34

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 21:19

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

'What is wealth, I just don't know?' asks the guy with a a several paragraph critique of Marx and how command economies got it wrong. I begin to think, sir, that you are arguing under false pretenses.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2019 11:48

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Infinite Karma posted:

You keep making up false equivalencies. Why is every transaction a change in ownership? We're all harping on you because rent extracting and rent-seeking is an inevitable part of private property. Instead of buying a hammer, what if the shirt guy just wants to rent one to hang a picture? What if the hammer guy refuses to sell his hammers and ONLY rents them temporarily. Do you not see how that inequality builds itself inherently? To the point where you need to account for it in the model of economics as "work abstraction".

Also, the quote is based on a poor understanding of basic capitalist economics as well.

The sale point for any good isn't 'less than it would cost me to make the shirt myself' it is 'less than the opportunity cost of making the shirt myself', which includes both the cost of manufacture and the time lost to perform that work. It's a minor difference, but very important, because people are more than willing to pay a premium for not having to do a thing they don't want to do, in this case defined as 'making a shirt', so as to spend their time on something more productive or more enjoyable.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2019 12:36

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Enjoyment is marginal utility. :haibrow:

# ¿ Feb 14, 2019 14:04

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

WampaLord posted:

It's not "paranoia" it's loving pattern recognition. You think you're the first idiot to stumble drunkenly into D&D and post long screeds about how you've figured out economics/wealth/humanity more than anyone else in the whole world?

And for some reason, the conclusion of all these brain geniuses is never "we should give poor people more money" so if you're the first one with that conclusion, congratulations, but somehow I highly doubt that's the big thing you've been working up to.

And shock of all shocks, you're a JP fan. Of course.

To be fair, this is more amusing than the usual 'see all of recorded history' result when the libertarians stop by. I mean, watching y'all teach the basic terms of macroeconomics to what appears to be one of the dudes in Plato's cave is entertaining.

paternity suitor posted:

I'm familiar with the basic gist of MMT, so I suppose I can see how that can address the issue of essentially a negative return on any money lent by the government. I understand that all money in circulation is created by the government. Government deficits can simply be restated as private surplus, I get that.

When you say, more specifically the money comes from anywhere...that's not very specific. It seems like it has to come from the government if it's lent out with no expectation of return. Who else would lend it? Even government spending has an expectation of return, even if the return isn't monetary, but improved safety or overall wellbeing of the population.

What does it mean to put money under democratic control? I guess what I'm driving at is, going beyond the idea that capital is provided interest free by the government, who exactly is deciding who gets the money in this scenario? If I have a business idea how would I obtain money, and what if my idea is really loving stupid and expensive? Who decides that it's loving stupid? What if it's actually very smart, but most people think it's loving stupid because it's esoteric?

Money explicitly comes from nowhere. It is a promise of value based on the value of the issuing country's entire economy, at its most base. Money creation has no expectation of return, but is rather necessary to prevent the existence of savings and hoarding from making money useless as a method of exchange by locking up the entirety of the currency pool and creating hyperdeflation.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Feb 20, 2019

# ¿ Feb 20, 2019 07:01

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 21:19

Liquid Communism: Mar 9, 2004

Eschat0n posted:

Good god, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that since I have all the time in the world and no actual obligations, I am free to consider even potentially high-noise sources of information.

You also appear to lack sufficient effort and introspection to reliably tell signal from noise, especially when you can't be bothered to read your sources fully.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2019 02:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What is Wealth?