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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Summary: Insular Religious Fundamentalists The Walder Frey faction? We will gently caress our way into the balance box.... Also please we want more funding for our wall scroll collections and no work requirements.
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Feb 3, 2019 18:50
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Badger of Basra posted:OP could you (or one of the other israeli posters in the thread) talk about how arab israelis feel about the israeli-palestinian conflict (and vice versa) Not Israeli, spent a bunch of time in Israel/Palestine and am a Hebrew speaker, but I can elucidate a little bit on this. First, the term "Arab Israeli" is not preferred amongst that specific community, the proper term (or more preferred) term being 'Palestinian Israelis' and depending on who you talk to, it might simply be 'Palestinian'. Palestinian Israelis see themselves as part and parcel of the wider Palestinian nation, and their sympathies lie not with the Israeli state or Israeli Jews, but with the Palestinian nation. Very few think of the Jewish state as a good idea, even fewer will bring themselves to vote for Jewish political parties, and even fewer than that will seek to volunteer in the IDF. They are discriminated against culturally and politically, with the recent Nation State Law stripping Arabic of its status as an official language, and is merely noted as a 'language of importance' - and this law also noted Jews as the only people allowed to have 'national self-determination' in Israel. That being said, the majority of Palestinian Israelis support some concept of the two state solution - an Israel and Palestine living together on/within internationally recognized borders, but the key thing that they want in addition to that is for the Israeli government to (finally) recognize the Right of Return that Palestinians have to the land that they left. This is of course a non starter within Israeli society, especially within the racist right wing, but that's a discussion for a different time. I would say 50-55% of Palestinian Israelis support an idea of a two state solution, I would say another 30-35% support a binational one state solution, and then after that an incredibly small minority that advocate for 'other' solutions - typically the replacing of the Jewish ethnostate with a Palestinian ethnostate, or an Islamic state. The right wing in Israel would have you believe that this small minority represents all Palestinians, do not believe them.
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Feb 3, 2019 19:14
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Ha. Bibi is currently the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Health and Minister of Defence. He was also Minister of Communication until a short while ago. Democracy!
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Feb 3, 2019 20:15
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right? this "democracy" fellow is quite the repulsive character
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Feb 3, 2019 20:20
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1994 Toyota Celica posted:you can't honestly think Palestine was an empty wasteland before the Zionists got there You're right in that. I meant to say that the lands that were bought from the Ottomans by early Zionist groups were the barren and swampy ones. I'll fix the post.
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Feb 3, 2019 21:52
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lol * Was a member of Banki (בנק"י -ברית הנוער הקומוניסטי בישראל, a communist youth league) in his youth, and was investigated by Shin Bet at the age of 15.
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Feb 3, 2019 21:53
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:for now, everything points to nothing changing and more or less the same coalition returning to power, give or take a few minor parties. its not like the main challenger right now (Gantz's Hosen Yisrael) is all that different policy-wise from Likud, so even if there is a sudden reversal, not much will actually be different, but at least we would get the satisfaction of seeing Bibi kicked to the curb. To this I'd like to add that Gantz is playing it real nice not saying with whom he will allign himself. It lets him play both sides until he sees what the general mood is. But there is a chance the new coalition will be center-left. I'm (naively) hopeful. Solar Tornado has issued a correction as of 22:30 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 22:25
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Solar Tornado posted:To this I'd like to add that Gantz is playing it real nice not saying to whom he will allign himself with. It let's him play both sides until he sees what the general mood is. hope is a mistake. and who is the center left part of that hypothetical coalition? labor? because lol
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Feb 3, 2019 22:27
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Sure. Since the Israeli left is still explicitly Zionist and would keep Israel as the nation of the Jewish people, no party representing Israeli Arabs would join in government with them. However, in the 90's, Arab parties supported Rabin's minority government without formally joining his coalition - think of this as something akin to the Confidence and Supply agreement the Tories have with the DUP in the UK Parliament. In the last election, the Joint Arab List voiced support for having a similar arrangement with Herzog's Zionist Union (a joint electoral list of Labor and Tzipi Livni's party Hatnuah) should they get enough numbers to form government (they did not).
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Feb 4, 2019 00:12
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Saladin Rising posted:It's a shame the bolded part didn't come to pass, seeing an unofficial coalition with the Joint Arab List, Zionist Union, Meretz, and whoever else would be crazy enough to join up would have been fascinating. It almost certainly would have fallen apart after a while just like we're seeing with the current Government, but Bibi/Likud in the opposition with an Arab party in the majority would be a hell of a shake-up. headcanon vs material reality After shock doctrine in the 80s bankrupted most kibbutzes labor lost its core constituency After rabin Peres wanted to turn the west bank into a free trade zone with casinos and cheap labor That radicalized Jewish communities there They are organized Labor is not
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Feb 4, 2019 02:20
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 Balad Hebrew: ברית לאומית דמוקרטית Translation: National Democratic Assembly Members in Current Knesset: 3, as part of Joint Arab List Founded In: 1995 Appeals To: Palestinian Israelis, Palestinian Nationalists, Hezbollah History: * Formed by various Israeli Palestinian groups after the signing of the Oslo Accords as a result of opposition to what they viewed as the existing left movements legitimisation of the Zionist government and minimization of the Palestinian cause. For example, one of these groups split from Maki (from the larger Rekah faction that opposed Zionism) because of “the internationalist chauvinism of communists towards the oppressed identity of Palestinian Arabs”. * There were internal disagreements within the new movement as to whether to run for election at all, but it was ultimately decided that running was the best route to advancing their cause and achieving tangible results. They ran in a single list with Hadash in the 1996 election, but later split up due to various differences in tactics and ideology. After the next election, Ahmed Tibi, one of their MKs, split off to form his own party Ta’al. From 1999 to 2015, they were on their own. * Notably, the party vocally supported Hezbollah and their conflict with Israel. For that and other reasons, it was cast as an enemy of the Israeli Jewish public and multiple attempts were made to ban it, all eventually overturned by the Supreme Court. The party founder, Azmi Bishara, resigned while abroad and never returned to Israel following accusations of spying for Hezbollah during the 2006 war. Several other MKs served time in prison for various national security related charges, with latest being MK Bassel Ghattas who is currently serving a two year sentence after being caught smuggling celluar phones to Palestinian prisoners. Long-time MK Hanin Zoabi might be the most hated MK in the Knesset among Jewish Israelis, though she won’t be standing for re-election. * After the electoral threshold was raised to 3.25% before the previous election keep out small parties like Balad, the party run together with other Arab parties in the Joint Arab List and succeeded in retaining its number of representatives. It looks set to run in the JAL for this year’s election as well, despite the fact that MK Tibi’s Ta’al split off once again. Key Stances: * Transforming Israel into a “country for all its citizens”. * Retreating from all Occupied Territories, forming a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital and granting the Right of Return for Palestinian refugees. * Stopping Israeli seizures of Palestinian land. * Releasing Palestinian political prisoners and detainees. * Separation of state and religion. * Resisting all efforts of conscripting Israeli Arabs into the IDF or alternative national service. Leader: Dr. M’tanes Shehadeh  * Political Scientist at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem studying the impacts of Israeli politics on the Palestinian economy. * Newly elected to the party leadership, replacing MK Jamal Zahalka. Has never been in the Knesset before. * “We are forced to be there [in the hostile Knesset] to protect the group or the constituency we represent. But we want to change and improve the situation. We present the Jewish and Arabic populations with an alternative to what exists now, where we are all rolling toward a fascist regime.” * “[Azmi Bashar and Bassal Ghattas] are both paying the personal price, the main subject is the enmity towards Balad’s political platform. Even if someone doesn’t do anything, you treat them as an enemy. Like Dr. Jamal Zahalka, like all of us, you always have enmity towards us because of the political platform we present.” Candidates in List: Various members of Balad. Summary: Palestinian Nationalists willing to risk themselves and break the law for the cause. AFancyQuestionMark has issued a correction as of 12:56 on Feb 4, 2019 |
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Feb 4, 2019 12:53
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Ha. Bibi is currently the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Health and Minister of Defence. He was also Minister of Communication until a short while ago. Democracy! I'm kinda surprised this doesn't cause him problems internally with his party. Presumably there are ambitious MKs in the governing coalition that would like to be ministers?
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Feb 4, 2019 15:51
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UrbicaMortis posted:I'm kinda surprised this doesn't cause him problems internally with his party. Presumably there are ambitious MKs in the governing coalition that would like to be ministers? Yes, but what can they do? For anyone from Likud, they can't run without him. For anyone from the other parties, its not like there's some alternative coalition they can form without running into ideological or rhetorical incompatibilities. After Lieberman quit his post as Minister of Defence following the ceasefire, the conditions were just right for him to take some of Likud's votes away - a dramatic resignation following a move that was viewed very badly in Likud's base ("they're just letting Hamas do as they like!", etc.). The other coalition parties smelled blood in the water, Minister of Education Bennett (leader of Jewish Home at the time) came out with an ultimatum - "make me Defence Minister or its time for an election!". Bibi called their bluff. He didn't give anyone anything else and Bennett just quietly folded. The coalition staggered on for several more month with 61 MKs. The news cycle moved on. Everyone forgot about the ceasefire, and now Lieberman is the one that has to struggle for every vote. I doubt that, if the Attorney General wasn't about to make his decision on whether to indict Bibi or not, we would even be having this election in April. I fully believe this coalition was capable of staggering on till the final date in November. What this teaches us is that, for now, the political arena operates on the schedule set by Bibi. Not the other way around.
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Feb 4, 2019 16:11
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so the "best" outcome with a chance of happening is a gantz government in coalition with the centrist secular parties?
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Feb 5, 2019 12:19
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i say swears online posted:so the "best" outcome with a chance of happening is a gantz government in coalition with the centrist secular parties? Yes, but I struggle to see how this type of coalition would get to 61+ seats. There's no way Gantz is going to let himself be supported by the Arab parties (nor would they have any real interest in supporting him). Even if the Likud vote implodes, which is extremely unlikely, you'll probably see some of the same faces in Gantz's coalition. At a minimum, I would expect Lieberman to be there.
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Feb 5, 2019 12:29
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What are the chances of a deadlock and new elections if Likud's vote holds and Gantz wins lots of seats while keeping his promise not to go into coalition with Likud (or was it only to avoid coalition with solely bibi as pm)?
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Feb 5, 2019 13:35
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i say swears online posted:What are the chances of a deadlock and new elections if Likud's vote holds and Gantz wins lots of seats while keeping his promise not to go into coalition with Likud (or was it only to avoid coalition with solely bibi as pm)? Pretty much none. If Likud's vote holds and Gantz doesn't overtake him, the current coalition (more or less) will just take power again, while Gantz gets to replace Labor as Leader of Opposition. That's assuming he even keeps his promise in the first place. However, I should reiterate that this is the situation as it looks now. A lot can happen in a couple of months. I'll have a detailed post about potential outcomes near the end of the month, after I've gone over all the parties.
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Feb 5, 2019 13:41
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Likud list primaries are over. I'll have a post about Likud up tomorrow, but I still want to discuss some of the results today. The good news is that MKs Oren Hazan and Anat Berko, as well as spineless bootlicking corruption elemental Minister Ayoob Kara are on their way out, unless the Likud gets an unprecedented share of the vote. If you're curious who those people are, well...  Oren Hazan in particular has been perpetually starting personal fights with opposition MKs, calling them slurs like "pet immigrant" and "half a human being" on the regular. His whiny smarmy attitude was seen as a symbol of the values held by the Likud voter base. He is also a former pimp. He will not be missed. On a more "meh" note, the current (not yet final) results show the current Knesset Speaker Yuli Edelstein in the lead. This man has been pretty much a grey void of decorum and appeals to legal institutions, which ring pretty hollow when his party is headed up by a Prime Minister under multiple corruption investigations and when the official party-line has along been to denigrate those institutions and cast them as establishment leftists out of touch with the people. Bibi's internal rival Gidon Saar is also within the top five, which could bring interesting things if Bibi gets indicted. He could also end up being a wet fart, which is most likely. Aside from that, the list is dominated by the usual faces: established Ministers and MKs following Bibi's line. Coming out of these primaries, Likud is pretty much the same as before, albeit with a few less populist troublemakers. For the Likud, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
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Feb 6, 2019 12:32
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i missed if you did a post on how the primaries work. is it similar to the AP/Coach's polls for college football where everyone submits an ordered list and it's tabulated from there, or are there multiple fptp positions and the top x vote-getters become the list?
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Feb 6, 2019 12:35
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i say swears online posted:i missed if you did a post on how the primaries work. is it similar to the AP/Coach's polls for college football where everyone submits an ordered list and it's tabulated from there, or are there multiple fptp positions and the top x vote-getters become the list? For the Likud, it's a mix of both. Every party member gets to submit a list of 12 nation-wide candidates. In addition, Likud Center members get to list five more candidates, one for each of 5 out of 10 districts. Each district has one reserved spot on the Likud list for the Knesset, and who gets iis determined by FPTP using said votes from center members. The rest of the list is determined by the generic, nation-wide candidate rankings of regular members. Here are the voting ballots: National  Districts  
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Feb 6, 2019 12:53
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ugh that's a billion times more interesting and representative than the US. i love voting systems edit so parties are free to conduct primaries in whatever manner they wish. do the haredi parties vote on this stuff, or are they essentially reserved? especially with such a short expected list compared to the larger parties i say swears online has issued a correction as of 13:11 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 13:07
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You should keep in mind that a significant chunk of primary voters don't compose their list on their own. Instead they use the ranking provided for them by one of the various influence groups within Likud. For example, the employee union in Israeli Aerospace Industries, one of the largest government owned companies in Israel, allegedly has a semi-illegal political wing that encourages workers to sign up for the Likud to vote for a pre-approved list in the primaries. A totally unrelated fact is that the former secretary of that union, current Minister of Welfare Haim Kaz, is high up on the list in the interim results 
AFancyQuestionMark has issued a correction as of 19:03 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 13:17
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lol
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Feb 6, 2019 13:22
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i say swears online posted:edit so parties are free to conduct primaries in whatever manner they wish. do the haredi parties vote on this stuff, or are they essentially reserved? especially with such a short expected list compared to the larger parties The Haredi party lists are decided entirely by their councils of spiritual leaders. In practice, these councils tend to be rubber stamps for the decisions made by Haredi community leaders. For example, as I wrote in my Agudat Yisrael post, all the candidates there are men involved in managing the public affairs of the Hasidic Admors, ranked in the order of the relative size of the Hasidic Courts they represent.
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Feb 6, 2019 13:24
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democracy
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Feb 6, 2019 13:26
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btw, it always irks me that when americans on these forums discuss the potential of unions, they tend to completely ignore that just like any other form of representation, they can be and often are captured by political forces or personal corruption
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Feb 6, 2019 13:37
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Let's see, number 19 in the list, reserved to the winner of the Shfela district, is Pinhas Idan. I've never heard of him before, I wonder how he got...oh. He is the current chair of the labor union committee at the Israel Airports Authority. That answers that question.
AFancyQuestionMark has issued a correction as of 19:07 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 16:58
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how many jewish dialects in israel have been wiped out by the country's adoption of hebrew? i know that mizrahi dialects that included arabic were explicitly discouraged due to that being the language of "the enemy" early on, and i would imagine that didn't do ladino any favors eitherAFancyQuestionMark posted:btw, it always irks me that when americans on these forums discuss the potential of unions, they tend to completely ignore that just like any other form of representation, they can be and often are captured by political forces or personal corruption
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Feb 7, 2019 01:10
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get that OUT of my face posted:how many jewish dialects in israel have been wiped out by the country's adoption of hebrew? i know that mizrahi dialects that included arabic were explicitly discouraged due to that being the language of "the enemy" early on, and i would imagine that didn't do ladino any favors either I don't really know about that. What I do know is that there are still some Haredi communities that speak Yiddish, and the various immigrant communities tend to speak their first language among themselves, so I don't really think Hebrew adoption would "eradicate" anything, but maybe I am wrong. In addition, Hebrew was the main language in the Zionist settlements decades before independence and many Jewish communities in Europe spoke Hebrew as well. David Been Gurion was fairly ardent in his insistence that everyone adopt Hebrew as their primary language, and even encouraged people to change their names into more Hebrew compatible variants. He also had a bunch of weird opinions about what modern Hebrew should be like and forced some of them on official government correspondence. For example, he insisted that words with Greek origin be written with "ס" instead of "ז", like "מוסיאון" instead of "מוזיאון". He also though that the use of the connective participle "את" should be discouraged as much as possible, because he thought it wasn't necessary to comprehend most sentences. The Academy of the Hebrew Language just threw out all of his weird stuff after his death.
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Feb 7, 2019 08:00
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*screams internally* *also externally* (it says netanyahu- in a different league)
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Feb 7, 2019 16:04
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i posted a tweet with it in the other israel thread but they've photoshopped netanyahu so he's the same height as trump
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Feb 7, 2019 16:08
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Jose posted:i posted a tweet with it in the other israel thread but they've photoshopped netanyahu so he's the same height as trump what the gently caress is it with wannabe despots and height anxiety It's way more intimidating to be some dangerous little short dude that everyone underestimates imo thank you for all the writeups, it doesn't lessen the sick feeling I get when I concentrate on Israel's business for an extended period of time, but I appreciate being better informed on the specifics
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Feb 7, 2019 21:04
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:The Academy of the Hebrew Language just threw out all of his weird stuff after his death. Imagine a Hebrew version of Academie Francaise, running around coming with cumbersome and useless alternatives to perfectly acceptable loanwords in some bid to maintain the purity of the Hebrew language, like no one ever told them that's not how language actually works. The most annoying part? They actually call themselves the "Academy" for Hebrew language in Hebrew. The fuckers who go around trying to come up with a superior alternative to "laptop" (מחשב מיטלטל, לא מחשב נישא) don't call themselves "הוועד ללשון העברית" or "המכללה ללשון העברית" but "האקדמיה ללשון העברית". Because the word "academy" has a wealth of connotations and historical context no equivalent Hebrew translation could convey. ... Almost like that's the case for most loanwords. Also, I know the French academy was established in the 16th century, but most obsession with the purity and richness of one's language comes from a really gross place of 19th century racism and nationalism.
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Feb 7, 2019 23:11
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What the Hell is Yiddish? Is it a German dialect of Hebrew? Sure, I could Wikipedia it, but I'd rather an Israeli/Jew/scholar thereof tell me because as Yankee, I would give a very different description of our political system than the internet would.
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Feb 8, 2019 01:00
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Jose posted:i posted a tweet with it in the other israel thread but they've photoshopped netanyahu so he's the same height as trump Tubgoat posted:What the Hell is Yiddish? Is it a German dialect of Hebrew? Sure, I could Wikipedia it, but I'd rather an Israeli/Jew/scholar thereof tell me because as Yankee, I would give a very different description of our political system than the internet would. similarly, Ladino is more or less the Sephardic version of Yiddish, except the base language is late medieval Castillian (Spanish). it also has influences of Turkish and Arabic in addition to Hebrew because many Jews that left reunified Spain settled in the Ottoman Empire. the Holocaust and Sephardic integration into Israel has made the language endangered, but it's had a minor revival over the past few years. i'm actually going to a Ladino festival this Sunday
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Feb 8, 2019 02:33
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this is apparently a mistranslation lmao https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/1095748204405104641
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Feb 13, 2019 19:36
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Can’t see the tweet.
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Feb 13, 2019 20:39
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the bit of the image cut off https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1095756303077687296
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Feb 13, 2019 20:41
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:While we are on the topic of Maki, I wanted to mention one of David Ben Gurion's slogans - "בלי חירות ומק"י", meaning "without Heirut and Maki" - he said this while putting together the very first coalition and it demonstrates his vision for what the "acceptable" range of views in Israeli politics looked like by establishing limits from the right (Heirut) and the left (Maki). The reason I mention this now is because Likud, which put together the last several coalitions, is Heirut's successor. Meanwhile, from the left side, neither Maki nor Hadash have ever been a part of any government. Just a little historical curiosity. Rather reflects the wider world as well. Authoritarian nationalist right has generally been more acceptable all round. Much to the detriment of many countries and societies.
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Feb 19, 2019 09:14
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cool https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1097885901185785856
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Feb 19, 2019 18:14
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