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I give that dream sequence a 2/10. Not enough vaporwave. Mega64 posted:I'm sad that Chome didn't get to see his mom or his Nohr bodyguard that fell down the gorge or Hans or that one evil guy he spared who turned good before dying. Those were all I'm surprised they didn't show his mom given that's practically a given for these types of scenarios. I mean, isn't that what made Chome finally realize that "dad is bad and not dad"? Then again, I shouldn't be given this game's track record and this ongoing discussion that the DLC holds most of what little story this game has.
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Jan 31, 2020 21:06
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Mega64 posted:I'm sad that Chome didn't get to see his mom or his Nohr bodyguard that fell down the gorge or Hans or that one evil guy he spared who turned good before dying. Those were all That's in Conquest and Revelation
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Jan 31, 2020 23:41
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Presumably in those routes he doesnt fall down a (plot) hole.
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Jan 31, 2020 23:50
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No, he still falls down a hole. The pre-family selection routes are all the exact same. They just actually remember to rescue him in the other routes.
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Jan 31, 2020 23:58
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Tae posted:No, he still falls down a hole. The pre-family selection routes are all the exact same. They just actually remember to rescue him in the other routes. Wait, so what's his face actually survived the fall down the hole? Does that mean we left our trusted steward to starve to death in a ditch? Also, if you're playing with permadeath, do the folks you got killed show up in the dream sequence?
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Feb 1, 2020 00:36
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Brunom1 posted:Wait, so what's his face actually survived the fall down the hole? Does that mean we left our trusted steward to starve to death in a ditch? The bottomless canyon actually has a dimensional portal at the bottom of it. So Gunter gets trapped there, and Azura only bothers to inform you about this in the other 2 routes because reasons.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:28
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Gruckles posted:The bottomless canyon actually has a dimensional portal at the bottom of it. So Gunter gets trapped there, and Azura only bothers to inform you about this in the other 2 routes because reasons. Also, he is statted out as a Jagen (Crazy strong for early game, garbage growths that leave him useless by mid), but you don't get him back until well after he'd stop being useful At least he looks cool?
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Feb 1, 2020 19:36
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He's actually kinda alright just for how good his personal skill is at enabling Corrin but is still mostly not worth a deployment slot.
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Feb 1, 2020 19:44
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Captain France posted:Also, he is statted out as a Jagen (Crazy strong for early game, garbage growths that leave him useless by mid), but you don't get him back until well after he'd stop being useful Does Jagen refer to growths, or just that as a prepromote he's not going to get much XP and will keep others from earning it?
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Feb 1, 2020 19:58
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Bruceski posted:Does Jagen refer to growths, or just that as a prepromote he's not going to get much XP and will keep others from earning it? In my experience, a Jagen is specifically a prepromote who can solo the early stages, but has absolute garbage growths. Case in point: There are characters with higher growths in a single stat than Gunter's total growths.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:22
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Jagen is a Paladin prepromote that you start the game with that can carry you through early game and is basically necessary on harder difficulties. Some of them have poor growths but their bases will hold up until they fall off. Some are just gods like Seth and Titania, some are mainly used for their early game utility. Gunter's probably one of the worst ones in the series but he has a use if you want to use him.
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Feb 1, 2020 20:28
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Bruceski posted:Does Jagen refer to growths, or just that as a prepromote he's not going to get much XP and will keep others from earning it? It's both, usually, including in Gunter's case. Which is especially stupid, because you'd think with him missing from like the third stage until everyone is caught up with him level-wise that he'd be able to just slot back in and just be a normal unit from then on, but nope, all his growths are trash. As if Xander having his ridiculous magic weapon wasn't enough to make nearly every other cavalier bad by comparison anyways. And then in Heroes they gave him some of the best art and a reduced stat total for being old. (I say nearly because Effie, Elise's armor lady friend, can get a horse. And all three melee weapon types. And she's basically invincible. And she can canonically deadlift a tree right out of the ground, and her strength stat reflects this. Effie is nuts. I should finish Conquest.)
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Feb 1, 2020 21:53
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Captain France posted:I should finish Conquest. No you should not, because Fates is a terrible game. Anyway, it's not enough that they gave Xander a weapon powerful enough to completely break the game on its own and instantly render all other swords completely obsolete; no, they ALSO had to give him the best growths out of everyone with his class tree on top of that, because he's a prince. Ryoma's basically the same for the Samurai tree: Magical superweapon so powerful he literally doesn't need anything else, combined with the best growths for his class in the game. Now let's look at the other siblings... Leo: Magical superweapon, excellent stats to support it. Takumi: Magical superweapon, good stats to support it. Probably the second-worst off of the siblings, because his offense is comparatively lacking and he has minimum-range issues. Camilla: High stats in everything, enough so to render all other wyvern riders redundant. Hinoka: High stats in everything, enough so to render all other pegasus riders redundant. Elise: Kind of the odd royal out; she's got staggeringly high Magic and excellent evasive abilities, but her physical stats are basically nil. Sakura: High stats in everything, though not enough to render other healers redundant because healers are kind of important. So yeah, this game does not make its classism or sexism secret in the least. Generally speaking, if you are royal you are better than everyone at everything, and if you're a male royal you get a super-special weapon that instantly makes you invincible on top of that.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:14
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Would it have been so hard to just make a super-special weapon for all the types? Just add an axe and a lance/naginata with fire and water effects and we’re good. Now we get all the classic elements and only the Little Sisters are missing ultimate weapons (an unlimited staff would be very hard to balance).
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Feb 2, 2020 00:51
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Geostomp posted:Would it have been so hard to just make a super-special weapon for all the types? Just add an axe and a lance/naginata with fire and water effects and we’re good. Now we get all the classic elements and only the Little Sisters are missing ultimate weapons (an unlimited staff would be very hard to balance). Yeah, this would at least give the older sisters relevance beyond "yet another unit to throw at enemies, except this one's an overpowered flier." Of course, just an axe and a lance would leave shuriken as the odd type out as far as legendary weapons go... Maybe they should've made the super-special weapons a bit less special too, to make sure that other weapons are actually competitive. Really, the only reasons not to use the royals are to challenge yourself or sheer spite. Elise, at least, gets a pass by being at least marginally plot-relevant already (she's the only Nohr sibling who's trying to defuse the situation rather than escalate); Sakura, on the other hand, is mainly there to serve as your starting healer while your servants are AWOL, from what little I remember.
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Feb 2, 2020 01:24
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Conquest rules and is one of the best games in the series to actually play, just skip all the cutscenes.
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Feb 2, 2020 02:23
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CptWedgie posted:No you should not, because Fates is a terrible game. This is why I always refused to use the royals out of contrarianism.
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Feb 2, 2020 03:45
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RevolverDivider posted:Conquest rules and is one of the best games in the series to actually play, just skip all the cutscenes. I've seen an LP of Conquest, and from what I saw Conquest's gameplay is basically "Birthright, except the game cheats at every opportunity and you have limited resources." I mean, the game pulls out completely unfair mechanics such as "the boss attacks your entire army every turn with no adequate explanation" or "enemies are literally invincible unless you hit them at exactly the right time;" how is that good SRPG gameplay?! And more importantly, why would I play a game that goes out of its way to be unfair in just about every way possible when I can just go play something I actually enjoy instead? If they wanted to make the game harder, they should've varied the map conditions instead of imposing stupid one-time mechanics on the player which, more often than not, are completely contrary to everything they could possibly have learned up to that point. I mean, let's look at "seize" maps as an example. A valid way of making them harder would be "race this guy over here to the destination." A cheap way of making it harder would be "if you step on this unmarked space over here, you get teleported back to the start with 1 HP and all the enemies respawn. Oh, and you still have to race that guy." Conquest... uses the latter kind of map more often than not, I'm pretty sure. Oh, and because I forgot her earlier... Azura: Absurdly high Strength and evasion, otherwise statistically lackluster but can give her turn to other characters. Has super-special powers, but because she has too many X chromosomes those super-special powers will kill her. Can't give those disgusting girls anything too good, after all, or they could threaten our masculine sense of superiority. (/disgusted sarcasm)
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Feb 2, 2020 04:04
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The “boss attacks your whole team every turn” thing happens in Birthright but not in Conquest. There is no map that does anything like teleporting your team to the start and crippling them the way you describe. What makes Conquest fun is that the maps in the back half of the game specifically challenge the typical principles of fire emblem team building and force you to come up with alternatives. Spoilers, I guess, for descriptions of a couple of maps: Chapter 17 hits you with a bunch of weak 1-2 range enemies who will nevertheless wreck you if you attempt to tank them with a bulky 1-2 range guy of your own. You can avoid poison if you kill on the counterattack, but the trouble is that physical 1-2 range weapons mostly can’t double and usually can’t one-shot at this point. So you can adapt by carefully positioning your team and using the Dragon Veins to split up the enemy groups in order to defeat them in detail. Alternatively, you can turn your bow users into legitimate enemy-phase monsters by putting them behind walls and forcing all the ninja to attack at 2 range; this is by far the simplest way to beat the challenge “legitimately,” without just skipping to the boss with multi-singing. You get an opportunity to recruit a bow unit strong enough to do exactly this at the end of the preceding chapter, if you want, or you can take boots instead and use one of the other two archers you get way earlier. If you have foreknowledge, you might instead use some reclassing seals in advance to make someone like Silas or Laslow into a bulky, fast ninja capable of beating all the enemy ninja on enemy phase. Chapter 19 does a couple of things. For one, it absolutely ruins cavalry—typically a core part of a Fire Emblem army—by limiting their mobility and making all the enemies speedsters with effective weapons. This is specifically bad for Xander, the strong but terribly slow paladin you just got a few chapters ago. Fliers can avoid the terrain, but the route's native fliers use axes and will struggle to hit. Of course the trickier and more infamous part is the illusion gimmick. It prevents you from doing the tried-and-true tactic of baiting enemy groups with one strong unit and then cleaning up the weakened enemies with a swarm of scrubs who were waiting out of range. The gimmick is a little weird, so that's why it’s introduced to you in the way that Mario levels do their own one-offs. First you get token resistance, a single guy with no special skills right next to your start who exists just to show you what the mechanic does. Just past him, there's a pack that doesn’t use the gimmick at all, so you can judge the strength of the enemies and work out how to defeat them. This escalates with the two next-closest groups, which are each on one illusion cycle. Now you can bait and kill like usual, but you have to do it fast. If you don’t clear them in one turn once they’ve engaged, they’ll run right through your strong units on their illusion turn and hunt down all the weaklings you put in the back line. It's hard to run away because of the forest terrain. The final challenge is the large mixed group that you face after that. This time, about half the enemies will be invulnerable on any given turn, and in particular, the ones you are able to weaken on enemy phase and then kill on your own phase are not the ones who can attack you on the next turn. You can’t mitigate the imminent threat by just picking the enemies off, but you actually can do that with formations. The enemies are strong and fast, but if you put your troops in a rectangle and perhaps back them up against the mountain peaks, no one faces more than two opponents at a time and you can weather the storm. I think this is the only occasion in any FE I've played that calls for something resembling a legitimate formation. Of course there are other tools available. Armor units are generally disliked, but the level 15 knight you got in chapter 13 can instantly promote to general with no training and dominate this map by himself using the Beastkiller. He even comes with a personal skill to reduce the enemy's obnoxiously high Avoid. If you raised a wyvern lord and you bothered to work on their lance rank, they'll do that job too, and they can carry that same general around to maximize their own bulk and also trade their HP pool with his if necessary. And of course Xander, your paladin with great strength and defense and base D rank in lances, can reclass into wyvern lord himself. What I think is great about this is that on a blind first playthrough, you’re almost certainly going to run into these a little ill-prepared. You'll barely squeak by. But that's what makes it so interesting to replay: you can come back next time with experience and a solid plan. These challenges ramp up right at the point when your army is promoting and you have many options opening up. In most other FE games, that's about when the difficulty curve completely collapses. Here, the game's just getting started. Or, you know, you can build Super Odin or Super Ophelia and trivialize the whole thing.
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Feb 2, 2020 05:57
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I agree. Fates' story is a dumpster fire and the characterization is uneven or non-existent, but they really nailed down the gameplay here. Birthright is simply a better Awakening in terms of how the maps are designed, and no rear end in a top hat reinforcements means it's the only version of any game in the series where Lunatic is actually fun to play. Seriously, I can't even enjoy Awakening anymore because of the reinforcements on Hard and above. I actually enjoyed the changes to the weapons. I like that the endgame isn't just 5 units with hand axes and javelins tanking everything on the map. Now there are actual, tactical reasons to choose which weapons to use and when. I will admit that shuriken are just a little too good, but 1-2 range has always been that way. And let's not forget that Fates was the first game to make bows good again, even ignoring Takumi. Pair Up is even better in this game, and by that I mean it was nerfed. Now there are stances, and like weapons there are times to use both. Birthright is easy enough you could play it like Awakening regardless of difficulty, but try playing Conquest with everyone in guard stance and you won't make it past Chapter 6 on Hard. Conquest has some of the best maps to come out in the West since PoR. Chapter 10 is the first real difficulty spike, but I often struggle more on Chapter 12. 17 and 19 are puzzles, but discovering a solution is pretty fun. The Wind Tribe is the most unfun, artificially bullshit difficult map in the game but it's one of a small few slogs.
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Feb 2, 2020 07:51
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I personally found Camilla better than Xander? But that's just me: in my run Xander got way too slow and meant he was very regularly eating doubles. Despite his decent Def score, he's not invincible and can't dodge/crit for days like Ryoma. A Spd-screwed Xander just sits there with a bunch of half-finished enemies around him. daermon posted:Pair Up is even better in this game, and by that I mean it was nerfed. Now there are stances, and like weapons there are times to use both. Birthright is easy enough you could play it like Awakening regardless of difficulty, but try playing Conquest with everyone in guard stance and you won't make it past Chapter 6 on Hard. I finish Conquest Hard with everyone in guard stance. I won't say it was smooth, but it's very doable.
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Feb 2, 2020 08:22
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daermon posted:I agree. Fates' story is a dumpster fire and the characterization is uneven or non-existent, but they really nailed down the gameplay here. I made it to chapter 11 on hard with only guard stance. Wasn't fun, but the game's repeated use of paired enemies in a way that's almost impossible to predict killed my interest in experimenting with attack stance. Birthright's got even duller maps than Awakening, which is impressive Really, though, the fact someone praised Conquest 19, the worst map in the whole Fire Emblem series? That's enough to write off the defense for Conquest's map design without me doing anything. I don't want to spoil too much but... it's bad. So, so bad.
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Feb 2, 2020 09:16
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chiasaur11 posted:I made it to chapter 11 on hard with only guard stance. Wasn't fun, but the game's repeated use of paired enemies in a way that's almost impossible to predict killed my interest in experimenting with attack stance. What do you mean by this? There are no surprise enemy guard stance pairs. Enemies never pair up during a battle except in one scripted event on a DLC map. And yeah, you can manage Lunatic with pure guard stance. It's a lot harder than it has to be because doing that cripples your action economy, but you can do it. I’m of the opinion that guard stance should've been weaker to break players of this habit carried over from Awakening. Attack stance is both more fun and more powerful.
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Feb 2, 2020 10:12
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Zoran posted:What do you mean by this? There are no surprise enemy guard stance pairs. Enemies never pair up during a battle except in one scripted event on a DLC map. I mean, the most obvious answer I can think of is Takumi on the final Conquest map.
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Feb 2, 2020 10:20
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Zoran posted:What do you mean by this? There are no surprise enemy guard stance pairs. Enemies never pair up during a battle except in one scripted event on a DLC map. They mean enemies attacking in attack stance, because what every single enemy will do and when can't be predicted. For example, a ninja moving before another unit and then another unit attack stancing with that ninja, killing you because the ninja's second attack benefits from their first attack's debuff. It's another layer of information tracking on top of everything Fates and Conquest in particular throw at you already. Fire Emblem is a game that both heavily benefits and suffers from structural inequality between the player and their enemies (their win condition is killing a single one of your units, and they have a lot more units than you), so taking a mechanic that heavily favored the player like Pair Up and letting the computer use it feels even worse than it actually is.
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Feb 2, 2020 10:45
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ApplesandOranges posted:I finish Conquest Hard with everyone in guard stance. I won't say it was smooth, but it's very doable. I didn't think it was possible. Wow. Fates, particularly Conquest, is a very plater phase focused game in a series that generally relies on a strong enemy phase playstyle. Once that clicked for me the game became much more fun.
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Feb 2, 2020 15:29
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I mostly played in guard stance because of the stat boosts, and timing invincibility from the pair-up. I rarely used the pair-up attack.
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Feb 2, 2020 16:06
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ungulateman posted:They mean enemies attacking in attack stance, because what every single enemy will do and when can't be predicted. For example, a ninja moving before another unit and then another unit attack stancing with that ninja, killing you because the ninja's second attack benefits from their first attack's debuff. It's another layer of information tracking on top of everything Fates and Conquest in particular throw at you already. Ah, got it. To me this is one of those things that can be solved by just assuming the worst even though the AI is frequently too dumb to do it. Even if you’re not completely sure what they’re going to do, a simple heuristic that almost always works is to just check what the single scariest dual strike you might take is and then double it. (This is effectively the same as just taking the strongest regular attack you might receive twice, simplifying the math.) There's almost never a situation where (1) the enemy can use attack stance against you three times in one turn and (2) you weren’t going to die anyway. So if you’re in range of multiple opponents, you just say: what if the scariest enemy gets to hit me one more time? If that's too much, use someone else, or use guard stance. ApplesandOranges posted:I mean, the most obvious answer I can think of is Takumi on the final Conquest map. That's every third turn, or every other turn on Lunatic. It's announced the turn before, and you can block it. Zoran fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 16:17
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Zoran posted:There is no map that does anything like teleporting your team to the start and crippling them the way you describe. Yeah, those were exactly what I meant when I said the game flat-out cheats. And the "teleport to start and cripple" thing was an example, not a statement of something any game actually does (if a game ever actually does that I'm sure someone would warn everyone else so they could avoid that BS "gotcha, you insta-lose!" kaizo trap, either by marking the specific tile it happens on or just not playing the offending game in the first place). As I said before, none of those examples you gave sound fun to me! I don't play for the satisfaction of overcoming the odds or whatever, I play because I like games. A "filthy casual," as some would put it. The harder a game becomes, the more likely I become to drop it out of frustration. Honestly, to me you're sounding like a challenge gamer who's getting overly worked up over his favorite objectively-unfair roguelike getting a lower-difficulty sequel to make it more accessible to newbies. And I seem to be in the majority on that last example you gave: That sounds like some of the worst BS possible in the history of gaming, let alone Fire Emblem, only slightly mitigated by the fact that it is, technically, winnable. IF you already know what you're doing when you go into it, that is.
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Feb 2, 2020 18:12
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 new video Ep 91 - Chapter 27 - King Garon (part 4) you have selected regicide
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Feb 2, 2020 20:28
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+1 for pure guard stance being totally viable, I use it exclusively because tacking dual strikes on top of debuff spam and Poison Strike and the like is a level of fiddly semi-obfuscated numerical bullshit I have no desire to deal with, and I've cleared no-grind Lunatic Classic runs of all three routes. Never really felt like I was missing out on much, though I am extremely not a hyper-efficient turn-player type and am entirely content to be slow and thorough and cautious when I can get away with it, so that might have killed a lot of attack stance's value for me. Conquest is bad. Or rather, the early half of Conquest is mostly fine enough with a couple bumps once you're used to it (and Ch10 is legitimately great and hands down the best map Fates has to offer), but the back half is just total garbage. Ninja Hell, Fox Hell and Mr. Fuga's Wild Ride are all godawful and all within one four chapter block, which is enough to kill all good will towards the game's maps even without Ninja Hell 2: Ryoma Edition (and its Lunatic introduction of Inevitable loving End, The Worst Enemy-Only poo poo Ever) and the shitshow that is the endgame still looming. I'm fine with challenge, but challenge based entirely on one-off dick move gimmicks, nigh-unavoidable damage, and debuffs loving up the ability to easily run the numbers in your head is a type I do not enjoy at all.
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Feb 2, 2020 22:37
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I'm glad all those children were made just to feed the dragon.
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Feb 2, 2020 23:59
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Thank you for a fantastic LP. I played and enjoyed all three campaigns of Fates back in the day, but the story is even more spectacularly dire than I remembered. It's been really fun seeing everyone riff on the this, and the way Fantasy Eugenics lets you make it even weirder.
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Feb 3, 2020 23:24
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I'm still somewhat shocked by just how much the game's plot ignored Hinoka, compared to what I assumed when the LP started. This occurred to me because I remembered the start of the LP, where she's the fiesty redhead warrior-sister and I thought, "Oh, that's a clear standard archetype character, I know what they're going to do with her." And then nothing.
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Feb 4, 2020 04:35
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Vavrek posted:I'm still somewhat shocked by just how much the game's plot ignored Hinoka, compared to what I assumed when the LP started. This occurred to me because I remembered the start of the LP, where she's the fiesty redhead warrior-sister and I thought, "Oh, that's a clear standard archetype character, I know what they're going to do with her." And then nothing. Yeah, that's another instance of the game's sexism rearing its ugly head: The male royals are all relevant regardless of route, though to what degree tends to vary (Takumi is, ironically, probably the most plot-important one). Unless I'm misremembering, though, the females are only plot-relevant in the other route (and even then not as much as the men): Hinoka and Sakura are just two more units in Birthright but are actually given some importance in Conquest; I don't remember Camilla actually contributing much on the Conquest route but in Birthright she's a recurring boss, and Elise... well, her primary role in Birthright is to prove that Nohr isn't completely beyond redemption, and then die off in a badly-mishandled tragedy scene, while in Conquest she's basically just your primary healer. So yeah, Fates is incredibly classist and, on top of that, sexist. Yet another reason it's a bad game.
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Feb 4, 2020 07:16
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Alright Kana, we're going to sacrifice several of your friends and family so you can get the final hit on the final boss, how do you feel about that?
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Feb 4, 2020 08:19
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An LP of Echoes would probably have gone better, if more worrying with the dungeon aspect to it.
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Feb 4, 2020 08:51
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Shiny777 posted:+1 for pure guard stance being totally viable, I use it exclusively because tacking dual strikes on top of debuff spam and Poison Strike and the like is a level of fiddly semi-obfuscated numerical bullshit I have no desire to deal with, and I've cleared no-grind Lunatic Classic runs of all three routes. Never really felt like I was missing out on much, though I am extremely not a hyper-efficient turn-player type and am entirely content to be slow and thorough and cautious when I can get away with it, so that might have killed a lot of attack stance's value for me. This is a big part of why you hate Conquest. Because debuff spam and poison strike exist to make pure guard stance suffering, but guard stance is just barely strong enough for you to win anyway. Likewise, you don't have to worry about surprise pair ups if the entire enemy group has been nuked on player phase. Relying on Impregnable Wall and the like in 3Houses might have been a better way to allow the player to initiate with an enemy group without making enemy phase heavy strategies workable. But anyone who went pure guard stance deserves that sort of suffering.
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Feb 4, 2020 18:29
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golden bubble posted:This is a big part of why you hate Conquest. Because debuff spam and poison strike exist to make pure guard stance suffering, but guard stance is just barely strong enough for you to win anyway. Likewise, you don't have to worry about surprise pair ups if the entire enemy group has been nuked on player phase. Relying on Impregnable Wall and the like in 3Houses might have been a better way to allow the player to initiate with an enemy group without making enemy phase heavy strategies workable. But anyone who went pure guard stance deserves that sort of suffering. Actually, I'm willing to bet that the reason people hate Conquest is that it's part of Fates, which... well, I've already gone over that.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:04
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golden bubble posted:This is a big part of why you hate Conquest. Because debuff spam and poison strike exist to make pure guard stance suffering, but guard stance is just barely strong enough for you to win anyway. Likewise, you don't have to worry about surprise pair ups if the entire enemy group has been nuked on player phase. Relying on Impregnable Wall and the like in 3Houses might have been a better way to allow the player to initiate with an enemy group without making enemy phase heavy strategies workable. But anyone who went pure guard stance deserves that sort of suffering. So, if the game teaches the player to approach it in a way that makes its bad design decisions even worse, then the player deserves to be punished? That's pretty messed up logic.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:09
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