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I just read the Resistance Toolbox and nobody had made a Spire thread so I made one. What is Spire? Spire: The City Must Fall is an RPG written by Grant Howitt and Chris Taylor. It feels much like a game that's descended from the Apocalypse (though not Powered by it). It is often compared to Blades in the Dark. It was nicely described as mllaneza posted:Spire is an ancient artifact of unknown purpose or provenance. You play Mechanics are roll Nd10, keep highest, compare to chart of "No, Yes But, Yes" results we all know and love. You have "moves" that are familiar to those who have played any Apocalypse-adjacent game. The Fatal and Friends is amazing and deep and definitely worth a read if you're not going to read the book. Big thanks to lazyangel. Who wrote it? Grant Howitt and Chris Taylor. They've brought you such gems as
The adventures for the game are quite good. Eidolon Sky is pay-what-you-want, and I think does an amazing job of setting up an adventure in a narrative game where players can change the fiction wildly in play. There are a decent number of adventures and small supplements, as well as the Resistance Toolbox. They let others write for them: the Codex of the Deep Spire by Jordan Shiveley is full of crazy ideas dripping in theme. Like a secret cabal of talking cats. I poo poo you not. The Conclave of Khaats. And, they just finished a Kickstarter in November for Strata, a supplement with new classes and moves and ten scenarios. BackerKit. The Resistance Toolbox Available pay-what-want, the authors have released the Toolbox, and SRD and guide. It includes the core of the game, with thoughts on how to hack it. Hack Ecosystem Ascendancy, described by author Ruby as "queer tabletop RPG about being psychic cyborgs in a city at war after the empire ruling it fell". Facade, a "transvampiric roleplaying game about existing and surviving under the pressure of society's unfair (and often contradictory) expectations", by Nora Blake. Community There isn't much of one, which is why I'm posting here. CitizenKeen fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 19:56
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CitizenKeen posted:Mechanics are roll Nd10, keep highest, compare to chart of "No, Yes But, Yes" results we all know and love. You have "moves" that are familiar to those who have played any Apocalypse-adjacent game. That dice mechanic seems a little odd, has there been any feedback from the creator on the specific reasons for choosing it?
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Feb 21, 2019 23:32
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nomadotto posted:That dice mechanic seems a little odd, has there been any feedback from the creator on the specific reasons for choosing it? I haven't read any. It's the same dice mechanic as Blades in the Dark, except d10s. IIRC, Howitt claims he wasn't aware of Blades (and wishes he had been because a) Blades does some things better, and b) he would changed some things just to make them less similar). However, despite that claim, it seems a case of parallel evolution. I'm not sure what was going on in the "let's make games inspired by but not powered by the Apocalypse" community at that time. CitizenKeen fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 23:55
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thank you for this
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Feb 22, 2019 01:56
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CitizenKeen posted:I haven't read any. It's the same dice mechanic as Blades in the Dark, except d10s. IIRC, Howitt claims he wasn't aware of Blades (and wishes he had been because a) Blades does some things better, and b) he would changed some things just to make them less similar). However, despite that claim, it seems a case of parallel evolution. I'm not sure what was going on in the "let's make games inspired by but not powered by the Apocalypse" community at that time. I wish that had happened too, BitD would be fantastic for providing a structure to the resistance struggle. They also Kickstarted a supplement that seems to be two new classes, some supplementary rules, and several adventures. The adventures have some real gems in them that I'm going to give prospective players a choice of. "Strata posted:Line in the Dirt by Pauline Chan. The cell’s safehouse - and home - is in the god-forsaken district of Derelictus, amongst the lowest of the low. But as they wake up one morning, they discover that aelfir-owned companies are threatening to destroy their apartment block to make room for new housing, and evict them in the process. Can the players keep hold of what little space they’ve managed to mark as their own, or will their fellow residents sell them out for a chance at a better life? I'm planning to try to run one of those in bits and pieces at work.
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Feb 22, 2019 05:58
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mllaneza posted:They also Kickstarted a supplement that seems to be two new classes, some supplementary rules, and several adventures. The adventures have some real gems in them that I'm going to give prospective players a choice of. Frak, how did I forget Strata. I updated the original post. Thank you!
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Feb 22, 2019 06:57
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Found on Facebook:quote:Traveling in a fried-out Zombie quote:Buying boots from a Dwarf in Brukkles
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Feb 25, 2019 19:42
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So, disarming in Spire. There's no way to reflect bad things happening, other than through Fallout. Failure results in Stress, which is abstract. I guess you could declare that an NPC is trying to disarm you, and the PC could roll Resist, and failure results in Stress and their weapon being knocked from their hand? Just thinking it through here.
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Feb 26, 2019 18:18
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grant was also one of the writers for the most recent paranoia. for whatever that's worth.
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Feb 26, 2019 18:47
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Oh man, do I really want to read a new edition of Paranoia? (No.) Am I a completionist who is currently trying to procure everything Howitt and Taylor have touched? (Yes.)
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Feb 26, 2019 19:23
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So, the Knight's Armor is 3 Armor, Heavy. I'm working on a cyberpunk hack and I want to make one of those heavy total-conversion style cyborgs. How terrible would 4 Armor, Heavy that you couldn't take off be? (Obviously with a Medium/Heavy Advance that would include getting rid of the Heavy tag.)
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Feb 27, 2019 20:59
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CitizenKeen posted:So, the Knight's Armor is 3 Armor, Heavy. Sounds fine so long as there are big, Brutal, guns around.
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Feb 27, 2019 21:17
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I mean, obviously.
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Feb 27, 2019 21:32
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Just thought I'd point out that the creators of Spire had a commentary podcast on Soundcloud where they went through the core book, chapter-by-chapter and talk about it. It's really cool if you're interested in Spire, or just interested in hearing game designers talk about their creative process.
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Mar 1, 2019 06:55
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I've been working on a hack/reskin of the Spire, into a simple Cyberpunk game. Here's a link of what I have so far: link.
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Jul 19, 2019 21:01
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If you like Spire then you should probably check out Heart: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gshowitt/heart-the-city-beneath?ref=discovery_category
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Sep 18, 2019 23:00
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Could someone do a FATAL and friends of the game and some of the material? I want a breakdown of how it works in practice before I drop a bunch of  on the thing.
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Sep 19, 2019 00:03
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StratGoatCom posted:Could someone do a FATAL and friends of the game and some of the material? I want a breakdown of how it works in practice before I drop a bunch of https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/lazyangel/spire/
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Sep 19, 2019 02:05
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An anyone explain how resistances / free resistances work? The book section isn't quite clicking for me. Do the 5 boxes on the character sheet add to the free resistances (eg +1 blood = 6 free blood stress before it affects stress rolls), or do you only get to use those boxes if you get +x free resistance?
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Sep 30, 2019 23:24
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They just take damage that doesn't count towards the fallout roll. So if you have +2 blood from a pick and say, 2 armor, you could take 4 blood his and still not have anything counting towards the fallout check
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Oct 1, 2019 01:41
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So Spire’s actually pushed me into GMing again for the first time in a decade and a half, and it’s actually going quite well. It’s horrifically easy to pretty much just wing it with a vague idea of the eventual direction of the game, which meshes well with my general laziness. It’s been quite alarming how little you need to feed the players - something about the characters the game generated pushes them into being nice and active with only the occasional nudges and the odd bit of scene description. Being online probably helps with this. Trying to use a selection of newspaper headlines as a framing machinist for each session. Have only written on Torch headline and already feel a bit greasy...
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Nov 25, 2019 23:44
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Say, if a Midwife is wearing Armor and then summons her armor with her Medium, they don't stack, do they? I don't think they do, but it's one of the only cases of 'natural armor' in the game.
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Nov 26, 2019 03:30
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So this game seems to have a fair few sourcebooks. What ones would you recommend the most?
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Nov 27, 2019 09:13
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ZeroCount posted:So this game seems to have a fair few sourcebooks. What ones would you recommend the most? There’s really only two - Black Magic and Strata. The former has more info on the Occult domain and is pretty short, but does include the Blood Witch class and some bits and pieces to play up the occult horror side of the setting. Strata is much more comprehensive, addressing High and Low Society, with two more classes and a load of scenarios in addition to more flavour for some of the city. The scenarios are a bit of a mixed bag, but the book is pretty excellent otherwise. Both are worth getting, really, but Strata has a lot more content.
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Nov 27, 2019 12:46
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i'm going to be running this in january. any tips on how to best handle the engine? are there any APs i could listen to/watch for guidance?
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Nov 27, 2019 15:05
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The most important thing I've found (and I'm hardly an expert, this is pretty much the only 'narrative' system I play) is to limit how often people have to roll. I know the book tells you this already, but it means it; Fallout can come on extremely fast and you don't actually have very much Resistance most of the time. It also makes it easier if you only have players roll when you have a good idea for what could go wrong, because that's what I feel like you're really rolling for: You're not rolling to see if something goes right. There's no 'did better than expected' result, after all. Just 'Made it', 'made it but something went wrong', 'Oh no' and 'everything is on fire.' I also like to have lots of stuff players just get/can achieve because they have a skill or domain (which also lets players add this stuff to their own descriptions and actions more easily). Like the WWI veteran Midwife having Order from her Sergeant advance in Enlisted just having a good sense of when soldiers are bored or cutting through jargon in a stolen report to get a read on the real situation. Or someone with Fix being decent at reading peoples' moods, because Fix is also psychology. Also really, really don't be afraid to change the setting or to just focus on certain parts. There's so much in there that if you try to incorporate too much you can lose control of your plot. It's best to just find the bits that excite you and write around them. Again, something the book emphasizes but it means it. There is just too much setting to cover it all, even though an awful lot of it is very good. But the most important thing is to remember that outside Advances, most of the rules are about things going wrong or things you can lose. They even say as much in the SRD; rolls are about what you're risking. This doesn't mean the game is about inevitable failure, just that moments where failure is very possible and could drive the story in different directions are what the rules are for. This also means combat is extremely dangerous, because you roll for everything in combat. Now a character who is actually good at fighting has a surprising amount of resilience against this, and you're obviously going to need to fight at some point in a game about violent revolution, but just remember that an actual fight is one of the most dangerous things that happens in this game. E: Also, I find it's really helpful to sit down with your players and talk over any changes people want to make to the setting before you start play. And to discuss break points and strong points in the regime; is the military's morale flagging to the point that they can't be relied on? Are the cops genuinely loyal for the most part? Are the aelfir mostly disinterested in enforcement outside of flashy elite positions like the Paladins, or do they really get off on playing cop? What is possibly pushing the city towards rebellion? Is it a material condition, a political situation, or is it entirely up to the PCs in a Spire that's mostly given up? Night10194 fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Dec 12, 2019 |
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Dec 12, 2019 15:27
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Was hype for this game but then I instantly died in our first combat so now I'm less so.
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Jan 22, 2020 06:32
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ZeroCount posted:Was hype for this game but then I instantly died in our first combat so now I'm less so. .. how did that happen? The worst weapons inflict d8 stress, which cannot reach the 9 required for Severe Fallout where death is an option?
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Jan 23, 2020 17:05
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Yeah, sounds like the GM both kinda hosed you and instantly chose death as the fallout option which is.... Certainly a choice they can make, I guess.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:52
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Also the death fallout options are generally 'you may choose Bad Thing OR Death'. That said combat is the most dangerous part of the game because it's the part where you have to roll dice the most, and every time you roll dice you are inviting disaster.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:53
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I suppose there is Knocked Out as a moderate fallout which could be problematic with an enemy prepared to kill you. “Ok he knocked you out, then he slits your throat and you die, you can’t resist and you can’t decide to give something up instead because you are unconscious”.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:07
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i think in that situation the person who knocked you out doesn't kill you for whatever reason. maybe you get captured or robbed blind or whatever, but killing your character would not fit with a moderate fallout
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Jan 23, 2020 18:52
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Serf posted:i think in that situation the person who knocked you out doesn't kill you for whatever reason. maybe you get captured or robbed blind or whatever, but killing your character would not fit with a moderate fallout I agree, but if I was GMing I'd have a hell of a time explaining why, because of a low Stress roll, a character's mortal enemy would not decide to kill them given a golden opportunity with them unconscious in front of them. Maybe CountZero's GM had the same issue?
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Jan 23, 2020 19:38
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hyphz posted:I agree, but if I was GMing I'd have a hell of a time explaining why, because of a low Stress roll, a character's mortal enemy would not decide to kill them given a golden opportunity with them unconscious in front of them. Maybe CountZero's GM had the same issue? This shouldn't be hard; you're resistance fighters. There's always a use for captured resistance fighters. Ransoms, questioning, hostages; there's tons of reasons your enemy would want to take you prisoner. Alternately, if you're not fighting the authorities, your enemy hits you hard in the head, sees your helmet split, and sees you drop, bleeding profusely. They think you're dead and they need to get moving before the authorities arrive anyway. Similarly, in a larger fight, same thing happens and you're left for dead because no-one goes through every body in a battle and stabs them to make sure they're dead. E: And more generally, 'I rolled Moderate Fallout and chose Knocked Out, so that means what happens for this Fallout stops at Knocked Out, let's come up with the circumstances of that and how it will introduce new issues for the story' is literally the game. That's the whole point of the system, to hit that result and then write fiction to explain it.
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Jan 23, 2020 20:05
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hyphz posted:I agree, but if I was GMing I'd have a hell of a time explaining why, because of a low Stress roll, a character's mortal enemy would not decide to kill them given a golden opportunity with them unconscious in front of them. Maybe CountZero's GM had the same issue? i think the way to approach it is to start with the fallout, and work it all the way out from there. the consequence of being knocked unconscious is that your enemies will have time to move and your allies will be left without you. so if your rival knocks you out and obviously goes for the kill, then some act of god prevents it. the roof gives out under their feet or they get called away by a more powerful person or they pull the classic bad guy move of assuming that killed you
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Jan 23, 2020 20:15
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The way I read the rules - and possibly not the only interpretation, but I think this is the best for the spirit of the system - is that "Knocked Out" as a fallout means that you get knocked out and you're out of the scene and possibly have other consequences of a similar severity, but you'll be back on your feet soon enough. It doesn't mean "you got knocked out and then they slit your throat, you're dead" because that's not "out for the scene". That means that if the GM's in a situation where your character is taking Moderate blood fallout, and they select Knocked Out, it cannot result in your death or really in any more significant consequences than getting knocked out and missing out on the rest of the scene and possibly waking up in a lovely position or whatever (I can't remember the exact description of Knocked Out, but I assume it's along those lines). And if the GM can't come up with a way for you to get knocked out but not killed, they aren't allowed to select Knocked Out as a fallout.
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Jan 24, 2020 09:37
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a computing pun posted:"Knocked Out" as a fallout means that you get knocked out and you're out of the scene and possibly have other consequences of a similar severity, but you'll be back on your feet soon enough. I think this is an appropriate reading of the rules, given that Spire is supposed to be a narrative-driven game.   Rules for Fallout do note that you can either downgrade a Fallout to be multiple lower-level Fallouts, or upgrade it if the character experiences Fallout again from repeat sources - Maybe the first time you get walloped, you go unconscious, but if your enemy continues beating you in the head, you die. That said, I think it's disingenuous for a GM to apply a "Moderate" fallout and then have an NPC coup-de-grace your character for no real reason. It's stated that the game is meant to be similar to PbtA in that it's a conversation, and also that the GM doesn't roll dice, except in response to player actions. While the GM is still responsible for moving the story forward, the impetus should be with the players to drive the scene - and this is evident in the combat/play examples through the book. If a given player rolls poorly and suffers Blood stress in combat, that stress probably shouldn't be applied (unless by way of a Spread weapon, for example) to their colleagues. hyphz posted:I agree, but if I was GMing I'd have a hell of a time explaining why, because of a low Stress roll, a character's mortal enemy would not decide to kill them given a golden opportunity with them unconscious in front of them. Maybe CountZero's GM had the same issue? This probably depends on the situation. If their mortal enemy is an Aelfir, I could conceivably see them regarding the erstwhile Drow as not really being worth the effort. After all, this is Spire, and there are some pretty bad things that can happen to an unconscious person if left alone. Personally? I think we're drawing a lot of conjecture from scarce details, but after seeing the lengths some GMs will go to in order to just gently caress with people (thanks, Cat Piss thread) I'm inclined to believe that CountZero's GM decided to just crank the lethality up to 11 for shits 'n giggles.
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Jan 24, 2020 18:12
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I picked up Heart (I actually picked up the entire Resistance bundle in print, because gently caress it, I'm not spending money on anything else). Spire, but with structure, is a glory to behold. Easily the best XP system I've ever seen. I'm pretty sure Chuubo's XP is similar, but I could never make heads nor tails of it.
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Apr 3, 2020 16:13
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CitizenKeen posted:I picked up Heart (I actually picked up the entire Resistance bundle in print, because gently caress it, I'm not spending money on anything else). In general, everything in Heart is basically Spire 2.0 - advancement is leagues better (although geared to a slightly shorter campaign), Fallout is more interesting, with character death dependent on the player agreeing, and abilities are much more consistently useful. It's be interesting to see how portable some things would be back to Spire, although I suspect it'd be waaay too much work. For the record I'm doing a Fatal and Friends read-through/review right now.
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Apr 6, 2020 08:21
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LazyAngel posted:In general, everything in Heart is basically Spire 2.0 - advancement is leagues better (although geared to a slightly shorter campaign), Fallout is more interesting, with character death dependent on the player agreeing, and abilities are much more consistently useful. It's be interesting to see how portable some things would be back to Spire, although I suspect it'd be waaay too much work. Well, one of the stretch goals that funded is the Spire Conversion Kit--granted, that's more pitched as "using Spire classes in Heart" rather than "use Heart mechanics in Spire," but I have to imagine that will get you at least 75% of the way there.
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Apr 6, 2020 09:07
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