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Mel Mudkiper posted:Did a dude just revive a thread to make weak attempts to counter some of my random posts are threads on the first page considered dead now? anyway yes I suppose your posts should be characterized as white noise, you're right, I'm sorry for hurting your feelings enough to prompt you to tell everyone about it
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Apr 11, 2019 06:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:It made the military of the past look like a sexist boys club. The entire subtext is that wow look how cool it is to be a fighter pilot and how honorable and cool fighter pilots are and its empowering that women now get to be fighter pilots unlike in the past. Worth noting that this is the same play for the military that Captain Marvel makes for comic book films - Bree Larson goes back in time to the 90s to make sure that "Tank Girl" doesn't happen in either conceptual dimension.
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Apr 11, 2019 09:35
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Phylodox posted:That’s ignoring context entirely. Flying a fighter plane in defence of harmless, bedraggled refugees against a monolithic military aggressor isn’t exactly in keeping with current US military policy. I know this isn't what you mean, but it kinda seems like saying it can't be military proaganda because it depicts the military as being more heroic than they are irl, which made me smile.
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Apr 11, 2019 15:49
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Crimpolioni posted:I know this isn't what you mean, but it kinda seems like saying it can't be military proaganda because it depicts the military as being more heroic than they are irl, which made me smile. I mean it isn't what he meant but I certainly do think its what he doesn't realize he is missing
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Apr 11, 2019 15:50
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josh04 posted:Worth noting that this is the same play for the military that Captain Marvel makes for comic book films - Bree Larson goes back in time to the 90s to make sure that "Tank Girl" doesn't happen in either conceptual dimension. Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need.
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Apr 12, 2019 08:02
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The main character's life being a lie was interesting on paper, but I think it hurt her character development overall. It's hard to get much grasp on who someone is when they have no meaningful relationships at the start of the film, and what we eventually do get is a speech and flashbacks telling us what kind of person she used to be. We don't get much showing us who she is in the present. Not to say that Marvel protagonists are usually the deepest characters ever, but we generally get at least a few scenes of them living their life and interacting with people so we can get some idea of who they are and how the course of the movie changed them.
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Apr 12, 2019 12:39
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The main character's life being a lie was interesting on paper, but I think it hurt her character development overall. It's hard to get much grasp on who someone is when they have no meaningful relationships at the start of the film, and what we eventually do get is a speech and flashbacks telling us what kind of person she used to be. We don't get much showing us who she is in the present. yeah, it was an interesting idea for subverting the standard origin story arc, but it just didn't work that well in the execution, unfortunately
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Apr 12, 2019 19:27
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Irony Be My Shield posted:The main character's life being a lie was interesting on paper, but I think it hurt her character development overall. It's hard to get much grasp on who someone is when they have no meaningful relationships at the start of the film, and what we eventually do get is a speech and flashbacks telling us what kind of person she used to be. We don't get much showing us who she is in the present. Yeah. I think Larson did a good job with what the story gave her, but it didn't quite fill the hole where lawson/marvell wasn't.
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Apr 13, 2019 07:17
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I saw this movie and thought the 2nd half was wayyy better than the first. Also I brought my daughters and when she told the dude "I don't need to impress you" at the end I wootled a little.
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Apr 20, 2019 01:00
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This was a pretty good video essay exploring militaristic messages in Marvel movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih_iGLowp7A
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Apr 24, 2019 23:42
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I think the messaging in Captain Marvel is very clever. Anti-intervention viewers are likely to see the Kree as a stand-in for the US military, but ultimately you have a war with a Good Side and a Bad Side and our hero decides to intervene with her overwhelming power to help out the Good Side. It's OK to blast these people with lasers or drop bombs on them from your plane - they're bad. It also does have a very empowering message, but that message is specifically about how empowering it is to become a military pilot. I agree that it's far more insidious than other Marvel films which merely whitewash the military.
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Apr 25, 2019 00:24
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teagone posted:This was a pretty good video essay exploring militaristic messages in Marvel movies: video is 100 percent right. exactly what i said about the winter soldier when it came out, which a lot of people refused to acknowledge.
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Apr 25, 2019 01:02
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idiotsavant posted:Quoted from pages back but I think this misreads the movie completely - like Phylodox said, she believes in herself 100% throughout the entire movie. Like, that was the whole point of the montage of memories during the last fight - they were all points in her life when she had been defeated (not just faced defeat; had actually been defeated) and she stood back up anyways for another round. It's basically the most explicitly feminist message of the movie. Yeah she’s very confident and even above it all for so much of the movie. It felt very weird compared to the normal marvel heroes who are plagued with demons and fears. Her total lack of anxiety made her hard to connect with as a character
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Apr 28, 2019 23:01
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Ccs posted:Yeah she’s very confident and even above it all for so much of the movie. It felt very weird compared to the normal marvel heroes who are plagued with demons and fears. Her total lack of anxiety made her hard to connect with as a character "You've believed in yourself all your life, but none of the men in your life have and indeed they've been actively trying to pull you down your whole life" is a plot that resonates really well with many women.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:43
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Carol looked fabulous in Endgame btw.
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Apr 29, 2019 01:51
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Yeah, the shorter cut was great.
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Apr 29, 2019 01:53
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teagone posted:Carol looked fabulous in Endgame btw. 
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Apr 29, 2019 01:54
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Cythereal posted:"You've believed in yourself all your life, but none of the men in your life have and indeed they've been actively trying to pull you down your whole life" is a plot that resonates really well with many women.
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Apr 29, 2019 02:20
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Not at all; it contrasts perfectly with her present lived experience and really sets up the main conflict of the movie - her own battle with her memories and her concept of herself as a person. She has unshakable self-confidence, and yet she doesn't know if any of her own thoughts are actually real. There are life situations when the only way ahead is through, and experiencing those situations and dealing with them can be emotionally brutal. I thought it was refreshing and inspiring to see a superhero face those situations head-on and push forward even while in the middle of failure and defeat. I mean, it really is a perfect superhero trait, more than being able to fly and punch holes in stuff.
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Apr 29, 2019 05:23
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Finally got around to seeing CM, and I thought it was overall pretty decent with enough cool moments to make it worth the ticket price, so pretty on par with most marvel origin stories. Between the two films I'd say I agree that Wonder Woman is better overall, though I think CM's female empowerment and anti-imperialism beats landed a bit better. I have to disagree with the assertion that WW is explicitly anti-war, though. IIRC Trevor and crew were portrayed as unabashedly heroic individuals sacrificing their lives to fight proto-nazis, so if anything it was more anti-western cinematic boogeymen. It's been quite a while since I've seen it though so my memory could be failing me here.
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Apr 30, 2019 01:50
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Another poster in a different thread pointed out that there’s no second act low. Part of the reason Spiderverse is so effective is it has such a definitive second act low. But Carols emotions are all very clouded. Maybe she’s got internal angst but there’s no internal monologue so we only just see her facial expressions. Which never betray any real hurt that her life is a lie. She just gets pissed and pretty easily turns super saiyan.
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May 1, 2019 03:43
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Not every superhero needs to be angsty. I think Carol works well for "I have superpowers and it is loving AWESOME!"
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May 1, 2019 04:22
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Ccs wasn't advocating for angst...
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May 1, 2019 04:26
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Or more variety of emotion, basically. The contrast brings out the highs. It’s why “What’s Up Danger” sequence in Spiderverse hits so hard because it’s a moment of jubilation after the low. I respect Captain Marvel for trying to make the mystery of her identity plot work but I felt that along with the lack of emotional range really hindered my enjoyment.
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May 2, 2019 00:15
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Cythereal posted:Not every superhero needs to be angsty. I think Carol works well for "I have superpowers and it is loving AWESOME!"
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May 2, 2019 01:31
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Cythereal posted:Not every superhero needs to be angsty. I think Carol works well for "I have superpowers and it is loving AWESOME!" You got your Captain Marvels mixed up, you're describing Shazam
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May 2, 2019 03:13
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Autism Sneaks posted:You got your Captain Marvels mixed up, you're describing Shazam Only one Captain Marvel has been making a habit of body slamming battleships from orbit with her face.
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May 2, 2019 04:21
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Cythereal posted:Only one Captain Marvel has been making a habit of body slamming battleships from orbit with her face. The Big Red Cheese doesn't need to do that in order to save the day.
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May 2, 2019 04:45
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He just hasn't had the chance to yet is all.
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May 2, 2019 05:43
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Finally saw this and enjoyed it a lot. I think my only real issue with it was how "whelp" Nick losing his eye was. Like the way it happened was fine (and funny) just, like, he seemed so nonchalant about it when he thought it was just a scratch and it went from that to him cold losing an eye so fast. Knowing how gravely this effected him via his conversation with Captain America in Winter Soldier made it even funnier though. 
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May 9, 2019 17:06
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Neo Rasa posted:Finally saw this and enjoyed it a lot. I think my only real issue with it was how "whelp" Nick losing his eye was. Like the way it happened was fine (and funny) just, like, he seemed so nonchalant about it when he thought it was just a scratch and it went from that to him cold losing an eye so fast. Knowing how gravely this effected him via his conversation with Captain America in Winter Soldier made it even funnier though. All I know is Goose had better show up again at some point in the future. Sam Jackson had about as much chemistry with that cat as he did with Brie Larson and Clark Gregg.
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May 9, 2019 17:10
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Wow this thread sucks. I thought CM was a decent movie but her superpowers were really overpowered. It made me realize that the "hero barely surviving fight with villan and winning by their wits/determination at the end" was a trope I enjoy in this type of movie. She just effortlessly destroys everything. I give it a 6/10, slightly better than Thor 2 but not amazing like CA3.
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May 27, 2019 18:22
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According to the directors, one of the deleted scenes had Yon-Rogg paying a visit to the Supreme Intelligence, who appears as the person you admire most. So who did YR see? Why, himself, of course!
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Jun 2, 2019 23:24
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Hah, drat, that's actually pretty cool characterization.
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Jun 3, 2019 22:31
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After watching End Game without watching CM, I had no idea what to think of her as I thought she came off like as kind of an rear end in a top hat at worst and just there at best. Aside from being rather OP until she wasn't vs. Thanos, I was pretty perplexed by the character's existence in the MCU. I was hoping her own movie would shed a lot more light on her. I finally watched this and I can't say that I felt the movie did much more than Endgame for her character. It felt really lazy about important things like having a character arc and some kind of development for her. It would have been cool if she was more of an alien at the beginning and then regained her humanity or something. It would've been a pretty cool setup for a fish out of water story. Instead she was basically the same, snarky and sarcastic person throughout, with the only development being regaining her memories later and unlocking her full powers--nothing affecting her personality or character much in a narrative sense. Her sealed memories were basically a macguffin. They also could've done something with the fact that Yon-Rogg's blood is coursing through her veins. Is this how she's written in her own comics?
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Jun 3, 2019 23:04
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I agree. I don't hate Captain Marvel the film but Captain Marvel character is poorly defined. That's an issue for a franchise that shoves all its characters into event movies and relies on you having an intuitive grasp of who they are.
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Jun 3, 2019 23:40
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iamsosmrt posted:I finally watched this and I can't say that I felt the movie did much more than Endgame for her character. It felt really lazy about important things like having a character arc and some kind of development for her. It would have been cool if she was more of an alien at the beginning and then regained her humanity or something. It would've been a pretty cool setup for a fish out of water story. Instead she was basically the same, snarky and sarcastic person throughout, with the only development being regaining her memories later and unlocking her full powers--nothing affecting her personality or character much in a narrative sense. Her sealed memories were basically a macguffin. They also could've done something with the fact that Yon-Rogg's blood is coursing through her veins. quote:Is this how she's written in her own comics?
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Jun 3, 2019 23:49
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I think that, given the story they were telling, leaning too hard into the "Carol is an amnesia victim" would have had unfortunate implications through the first half of the movie. You have to walk a fine line between Carol being internally victimized, and Carol being externally gaslit, and the movie, for good reason, wanted to fall on the latter side of the line. I liked the implication that while the Kree could take her specific memories away, they couldn't destroy her own sense of self; she always knew who she was, it's just that the world was telling her she was something else. I'm not sure I get what you mean about the unfortunate implications and issues with her being internally victimized. In a way, I wish she appeared more vulnerable so I could relate with her more as a person. Irony Be My Shield posted:I agree. I don't hate Captain Marvel the film but Captain Marvel character is poorly defined. That's an issue for a franchise that shoves all its characters into event movies and relies on you having an intuitive grasp of who they are. Yeah if I had to try to best positively summarize her characterization, it'd be something fairly shallow like "tough, unflappable, sarcastic woman with 'tude who has the strongest powers in the MCU." Do people consider her MCU character to be a Mary sue?
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Jun 4, 2019 01:44
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all the usual people who get mad about WOMZ in their COMIC BOOKS hate her, but for the most part she just seems relatively forgettable
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Jun 4, 2019 07:50
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I know the MCU version is based more on Kelly Sue Deconnick’s relaunch of the character from 2012-13 and I can see them steering the character like that in future movies. Right now she’s kind of gotten tired of the current super hero status quo of being so reactive and is always looking for ways to be more proactive. This plus her military backgrounds tend to give her more of a authoritarian streak. She tends to get teamed up with T’Challa for this very reason.
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Jun 4, 2019 15:42
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