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Homing missiles are why I never finished this game.
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Apr 5, 2019 05:08
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Those vulcan robots always struck me as incredibly unfair. Either you get the drop on them with homing missiles, or they do guaranteed damage on you no matter how good at flying or fighting you are. The other enemies are largely OK but so many of the corridors are so narrow it also feels like it's up to pure chance rather than player skill as to whether an incoming shot will hit you or not. What the game feels like it's really missing is larger rooms with cover in them (other than the entrance doors/corridors) - something as simple as a low wall you can duck behind to switch up weapons or pillars that you can pop around and come out again at a flanking angle could really add more depth to the fights rather than "IF homing missiles = 0 THEN shields = shields-20".
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Apr 6, 2019 06:05
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In the original engine homing missile trajectory updates were tied to the frame rate. Whether this was because the calculation was being done during the draw process or whatever I dunno, but the end result was that the turning radius of a homing weapon became tighter as frame rates climbed. Once you were cranking enough frames per second a homing missile gaining a lock on you at all is game over since that fucker will do a near 90 degree turn on a single point to get you. As I recall this became a real problem especially with the Descent 2 multiplayer scene as late model Pentium and early Pentium IIs became more common. I know source ports corrected the issue but I'm not sure if the original code ever got adjusted for Descent or Descent 2. But for a while there it was pretty funny that someone running a garbage can computer could terrorize the god boxes of the time in multiplayer. Although with Descent 2 the scenario could be reversed with the omega cannon whose discharge rate was also pegged to frame rate. In that case if you were pushing huge FPS you could literally empty the weapon charge in a half second and if your target was on a weaker computer they'd basically get "stun locked" and die as they struggled to process what was happening. I think that one was fixed by the developers in a patch.
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Apr 6, 2019 06:48
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This becomes slightly more evident in later videos, but the vulcan robots do have one weakness beyond just their general low health and ability to be blown up with homing missiles and splash damage. They do have to rotate to face the player before they can begin firing, so if you get their attention from one corridor, then run away and then flank them from another angle, they can't shoot you while their back is turned. That said they're still a really rude enemy design since they react very fast, are generally already damaging you by the time you can hear them, and on top of that are small and kind of fast too. They're also often placed inside little nooks rather than mid-way in hallways or loops, so they're always facing outwards, meaning you can't really sneak up on them without aforementioned homing missiles. Thankfully after some other robots get introduced there's a bit less of a focus on them. A little bit.
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Apr 6, 2019 07:07
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Leylite posted:Thankfully after some other robots get introduced there's a bit less of a focus on them. A little bit. ...but later we also get cloaked drillers  Although I recall them being very rare and when they do show up the developers toss in a nearby mitigation option in the form of a cloak or invulnerability power up. Fabulousity fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 07:23
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Leylite posted:This becomes slightly more evident in later videos, but the vulcan robots do have one weakness beyond just their general low health and ability to be blown up with homing missiles and splash damage. They do have to rotate to face the player before they can begin firing, so if you get their attention from one corridor, then run away and then flank them from another angle, they can't shoot you while their back is turned. Descent 2 is (for the most part) much better about this with level design but as mentioned before, cover won't get you far with drillers - and lifters are placed so that they chase you out of cover a lot of the time. Staying on the move as a survival mechanism works a lot better than it looks at first glance and melee enemies love floating into mines. Well, that's what ten year old me thought anyway. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Apr 6, 2019 |
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Apr 6, 2019 20:24
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Drillers and high-framerate, impossible tracking missiles are exactly the things that made me give up on Descent when I tried to play it a couple years ago. 
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Apr 6, 2019 20:56
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah, that's something I kind of wanted to touch on - berryjon seems to be playing it a lot like a cover shooter and sure, the corridors force it, but when you get to the big rooms mobility is a lot better a defence than walls. It's the nineties, shooters are all about getting in the middle of enemy clusters and dodging and weaving between bullets. Dead right, this is also what I was wanting to point out. As great a game as Descent is, the level design and drillers are totally at odds with the rest of the game design. The movement mechanics, player weapons and most of the other enemies are wonderfully designed to give you that beautiful dodging-and-weaving 90s shooter experience, but you almost never get to do it because of the drillers and narrow corridors. Spaces big enough to actually sidestep (as opposed to hiding behind a corner or doorway) incoming fire are few and far between. These guys unwittingly invented the 2000s-esque hitscan cover shooter before their time.
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Apr 6, 2019 22:35
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When I get to level 10, and we get our first really huge rooms, I will be touching on that. Alas, I don't get a 15 second "watch the enemy homing missile through the back of the cockpit" instance on the recording as I dove through one such room. There's also one other aspect to the game that encourages constant motion that I plan on talking about in mission 8 or 9.
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Apr 6, 2019 23:52
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  Level 7: Mercury Core - COMMENTARY (With Ephphatha and Speedball) - NO COMMENTARY - 35:13 Commentated Video might still be processing. Give it a couple minutes if so.
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Apr 13, 2019 17:04
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Oh, it's this one; I still remember the little touches like the hemispherical rock with passage in it and the yellow key approach. Plus obviously the finale. ...Am I misremembering that the demo had a different (and much better) music track for it? e: Hell, I still remember the way from the spawning room to the red door. After 23 years. e2: Okay, so I feel like a gushing a bit more about the level's end so spoilers for the last video: the Superhulk (Uber? can't recall the official name or even if it has one) is an amazing fight. It looks really simple on the surface - it's just a bigger version of a robot you've been fighting since the start - but it requires you to change the way you're playing. You've got an enemy that doesn't follow you, doesn't track you, can't be lured into mines, can't be provoked out of cover; guy just doesn't give a poo poo about you. He doesn't even attack you directly, what he does is trickshots: fires rockets into walls and those green balls of fire will follow you to the ends of the room. You really don't ever want to be caught anywhere near those rockets' points of impact. You really don't ever want to have a straight shootout with the guy because he doesn't shoot straight. So what you do is us the tunnels in the central pillar because they're the only safe spot. You're playing mouse to its cat. And like the mouse just sticking its head out of its hole, you have very little idea where the enemy is since the sound tracking (another new mechanic) provides a general indication but doesn't tell you anything about the trajectory of the missiles. So you hide in tunnels, wait until the air is clear to pop up and put a couple missiles into the guy. You can totally feel brave and just run laps around the room - as berryjon showed - but it's far from foolproof and there is always the risk of a stray plasma shot which you really want to avoid if you're, say, carrying hostages. In summary, this guy is scary as hell: you're outclassed from the very beginning and if it's your first time playing chances are he'll kill you a couple times even before you spot him because he can hear your shots on the other side of the pillar and can start pumping missiles into walls just for the hell of it. So the first couple times you die mysteriously, then you catch a glimpse of how big that thing is - and all throughout these steps, it's being built up as this invisible deadly threat. Then you start working out the mechanics of its weapon and after that it's coming up with a strategy to beat it. I loving love that fight and beating it for the first time is a very fond childhood memory. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Apr 13, 2019 |
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Apr 13, 2019 17:37
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Man, that must have been quite a turn that missile did at 8:05. Does Descent 1 have the rear view camera, or was that only added in Descent 2?
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Apr 13, 2019 18:41
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Montegoraon posted:Man, that must have been quite a turn that missile did at 8:05. Does Descent 1 have the rear view camera, or was that only added in Descent 2? It's in 1, trust me. There's nothing like running in circles in a huge room watching homing missiles come up your tailpipe. I have an excellent chance to show this off in Level 12, trust me.
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Apr 13, 2019 19:18
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It was in D3, but I knew someone whose favorite thing was to get another player to chase him, then zip down a narrow tunnel and slam a smart missile into a wall for the pursuer to run facefirst into. ...it was also basically the first thing he ever told me about how he played D3, and he never seemed to figure out why instead of dying to the smart missile I'd almost always mysteriously appear at the other end of the tunnel with homing missiles ready.
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Apr 13, 2019 20:04
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That boss really gated me from seeing the rest of the game. I beat it once or twice, but at such a cost of resources that I never really had the will to continue (at least as far as I can remember). So the rest of this series is bound to be interesting for me!
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Apr 13, 2019 23:36
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You know, I played the hell out of this game when I was a kid (my childhood was basically this, Mechwarrior 2, X-Wing and TIE Fighter) and all these years later I still find myself wondering...What the hell is the mining purpose of that thing?
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Apr 14, 2019 02:25
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Polaron posted:What the hell is the mining purpose of that thing? It doesn't have one. It's a Boss.  It's Military.
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Apr 14, 2019 02:28
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It was supposed to keep the rest of the drones in line. Can't have'em getting ideas like (heavens forbid) unionizing.
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Apr 14, 2019 02:55
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berryjon posted:
Audio levels seem out of whack in this one, you Berryjon are very quiet compared to your guests. That said Chufty Boy is quite the surprise at the end! There was more than one demo! The one I had, Destination Saturn, had 15(!) levels and an entirely demo-only final level (the namesake Destination Saturn). I think it's in the Levels of the World pack if you have that. But it also had a pretty challenging reactor to pop in this level instead! Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 03:42
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Here's some fanart for the thread. The Boss wants you in his office in five minutes.
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Apr 14, 2019 03:54
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berryjon posted:It doesn't have one. It's a Boss. I thought it was tied into the malfunctioning robots in that (spoilers ahead that also apply to Descent 2 and 3): PTMC was dabbling in not-so-wholesome military jiggery-pokery that may have been enhanced by an alien virus which itself started to infect their day to day mining operations. Descent 2 highlights the alien thing a tiny bit more and Descent 3 straight up runs with it at the outset. Eventually the virus/bots started to home brew some of their own designs of which OH LAWD HE COMIN' hulk in the Mercury Core mine was one.
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Apr 14, 2019 06:27
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Zanzibar Ham posted:It was supposed to keep the rest of the drones in line. Can't have'em getting ideas like (heavens forbid) unionizing.
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Apr 14, 2019 08:09
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I think there's only one boss left in the first game, right?
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Apr 14, 2019 08:11
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Solitair posted:I think there's only one boss left in the first game, right? Yes, and it will stare into your soul before killing you. It's also a long way away: In Descent 1 the first big boss is level 7 and the next is in 24. Although the chonk boy we just saw will kind of be back towards the last mines, but easier in some ways and more horrible in others. anilEhilated posted:Actually there are supervisor bots but I don't remember if they show up in this one or the sequel. Their way of "fighting" perfectly fits the role. Class 2 Supervisor Robot is what you're thinking of but to this day I guess no one is sure if they change anything. They are in Descent 1 but if I remember right in Descent 2 they show up in a secret level or two.
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Apr 14, 2019 11:20
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Fabulousity posted:Yes, and it will stare into your soul before killing you. It's also a long way away: In Descent 1 the first big boss is level 7 and the next is in 24. Technically there is also a mini-boss kind of enemy that is IIRC exclusive to a secret level. Fabulousity posted:Although the chonk boy we just saw will kind of be back towards the last mines, but easier in some ways and more horrible in others. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 14, 2019 |
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Apr 14, 2019 20:38
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 COMMENTARY (With Speedball) - NO COMMENTARY - 17:13
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Apr 21, 2019 00:11
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One advantage of the Plasma Cannon  is that it makes the dodgy guys a little easier to deal with than your other energy weapons by spewing hot plasma death everywhere very quickly
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Apr 21, 2019 03:07
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I'm pretty sure I remember discovering when I was young that the plasma cannon does exactly as much damage as a level 4 laser. It fires faster but that's negated with the quad upgrade.
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Apr 21, 2019 03:29
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That escape sequence commentary is pretty much the perfect summation of how Descent plays. Maybe missing a bit of "gently caress where's the exit, where's the exit, I forgot where's the exit!" but that's bound to happen sooner or later.
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Apr 21, 2019 07:45
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anilEhilated posted:Are we both thinking of the purple ones? I genuinely don't remember our smartly equipped buddy ever coming back. Yeah, the same model gets used with a purple skin and the smart missiles get replaced with fusion cannons. I believe they show up in the very last few normal levels but in sort of far-flung locations or are otherwise easily bypassed. I also remember there was a secret level where they are all over the place. The weapon swap makes the smaller purple ones a lot less deadly than level 7 Garfield boss but they still represent the hardest hitting non-homing non-hit-scan enemies in the game. They also have large health pools and can take a lot more punishment than those drat red super hulks. For general commentary: You guys got the plasma cannon right in that it's a great spray and pray weapon in large rooms and a doom gun in tight quarters. The shot velocity is also high which is handy in multiplayer. Lasers still remain the far and away most efficient weapons in terms of damage per energy spent but they're slow and aren't that great for area denial like the plasma cannon. The fusion cannon will be appearing soon which offers some fun crowd control abilities in the single player missions. In multiplayer it was a badge of honor to fusion one or more people with a single shot and an anchor of shame if you were a victim of said shot. Only getting flared to death was more shameful. Fabulousity fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Apr 21, 2019 |
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Apr 21, 2019 12:27
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It uses fusion canon and Mega Missiles. Yes, the lasers are the most efficient for DPS per energy spent, but most stages have recharge rooms at this point and plenty of energy pickups. I haven't see berryjon run out of energy yet and he's been pretty liberal with his shooting. I switched to Plasma at this point in the game and never looked back until D2. I would use the spread cannon to handle enemies that were barely sticking out around corners. The only weapon-type that these games don't really have is a sniper.
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Apr 22, 2019 01:14
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mastersord posted:The only weapon-type that these games don't really have is a sniper. Descent 3 does, but that game's a pretty different beast, what with nearly all the weapons being replaced.
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Apr 22, 2019 02:56
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mastersord posted:The only weapon-type that these games don't really have is a sniper. The vulcan cannon is kind of like that (and a particular fast missile in Descent 2), but they don't really have the "high damage in one single package" that a sniper rifle shot usually has.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:08
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Leylite posted:The vulcan cannon is kind of like that (and a particular fast missile in Descent 2), but they don't really have the "high damage in one single package" that a sniper rifle shot usually has. Oh lordy am I gonna wax poetic about that missile if we get there.
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Apr 22, 2019 03:17
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Bellmaker posted:Oh lordy am I gonna wax poetic about that missile FIFY. Also, I know I'm going to get all the games done, but I haven't decided if I want to go for a full megathread, or keep each game in a separate thread yet.
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Apr 22, 2019 04:26
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Ah, the plasma cannon. High damage, high rate of fire, high projectile speed. I learned early on that if you're good at strafing and maneuvering the joystick, you can keep all your plasma shots on a pinpoint target while circle-strafing to avoid oncoming fire. Doesn't work in the tighter corridors as well, but it is a godsend in any space where you have some wiggle room for maneuverability. Melting hulks in an unending stream of green while taking no damage yourself is a fantastic feeling.
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Apr 22, 2019 17:55
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A while back Volition Inc. (formerly one half of Parallax Software) would post videos where their developers would play various games both past and present. A few years back they posted one where some of the original developers played Descent 1 for a bit and share some fun stories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwm2SJFDH3A
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Apr 22, 2019 22:20
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 COMMENTARY (With Speedball) - NO COMMENTARY - 19:34
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Apr 28, 2019 19:12
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Ahh yes, we get a good glimpse of one of my favorite little touches in this level. When the reactor is blown all surviving display screens switch to an animated Star Trek red alert gif saying >>>EVACUATE<<<. It's a small thing, but a charming one. It helps sell the OKAY TIME TO LEAVE feel of a good level end.
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Apr 28, 2019 20:24
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Loxbourne posted:Ahh yes, we get a good glimpse of one of my favorite little touches in this level. When the reactor is blown all surviving display screens switch to an animated Star Trek red alert gif saying >>>EVACUATE<<<. I never noticed this when I played as a kid, but that's probably due to the fact that I shot every monitor I saw as often as possible
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Apr 29, 2019 22:36
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