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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Games Workshop is a bad example because they literally closed Forge World last year. hehe, he calls it a service product instead of service weapon.
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Apr 20, 2024 04:52
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Games Workshop is a bad example because they literally closed Forge World last year. the m14 sucked so bad that even the australians didnt adopt it.
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Apr 20, 2024 10:02
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Yeah, the M14 sucked beyond its manufacturing issues, it was a huge, heavy gun that clearly was the result of trying to jam into automatic capability into an M1. Even if you are talking about trench warfare ala the Korean War, the Chinese and North Koreans were using plenty of SMGs even if they couldn't get their hands on AKs and the future was clearly forward small and lighter rifles that could also be automatic rather than full battle rifles. Also, it seems like having a significant portion of the action on the outside of the gun probably wasn't going to be that useful in adverse conditions including frost. The m16 was absolutely a better gun even though it too needed to be fixed. The M14 is acceptable as a DMR but that is kind of it.
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Apr 20, 2024 10:34
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:I basically read several pages worth of this on the Project Owl Discord, because I'm an idiot and was looking for some new information on the Iraqi PMF strikes there. 350 billion in investment hasn't resulted in a functional deterrent in 50 years, and missiles remain cheaper than interceptors.... So we're gonna keep paying Lockhead to develop interceptors. We can't produce basic munitions for a peer conflict right now but we're still full throttle on wunderwaffe.
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Apr 20, 2024 10:55
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big dong wanter posted:the m14 sucked so bad that even the australians didnt adopt it. Good. Because using the same rifle as the rest of the Commonwealth should have been common sense for the Yankeephile Aussies. e: Maybe Americans just don't understand, but because of Canada's gun laws, the Norinco M305/M14S was one of the most popular, I think the most popular rifle here, for decades - until an RCMP informant went on a rampage and Trudeau banned it. There were so many parts, gunsmiths who could fine tune them, really innovative stuff was happening here. DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 12:37 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 12:34
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I am noticing a trend of articles reassuring the public that Chinese military tech is just outdated copies, everything is fine, the occident patriots are in charge over the backward opium-addled orientals. Most recently I found this article claiming that the chinese WZ-8 unmanned drone is a "copy" of the US D-21 from 50 years ago. https://www.businessinsider.com/chi...ign=business-sf Tellingly they never show a don't show a picture of the Chinese drone until 3/4 of the article and never show what you'd expect in an article making this claim: a side-by-side of their silhouettes.   I guess they uh... both kind of taper to a point in the nose? They don't even have the same propulsion system. Of course credulous boomers were commenting on the article about a Temu army and that we should just whip them with our superior might, and russia while we're at it.
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Apr 20, 2024 13:19
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1. everyone copies everyone so it doesn't really matter, and 2. even if they take design elements, it doesn't really mean it is a "copy." Look at the "J-31" which is suppose to be "an exact copy" of the F-35 when its profile is radically different and it has a 2 engine design configuration. If anything the J-31 is more aerodynamic because it is a 5th gen jet not designed around a huge VTOL system. That is just the physical design of the plane itself. Did they look at the F-35/F-22 when designing it, probably, and then they did their own thing because there are clear flaws with both fighters. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:22 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 13:34
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there's also the fact that as you optimize for a certain trait, different starting designs will converge.
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Apr 20, 2024 14:21
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Dixon Chisholm posted:there's also the fact that as you optimize for a certain trait, different starting designs will converge. yeah the soviet space shuttle looked exactly like the american piece of poo poo shuttle because thats just what was aerodynamically required to be a space plane and survive re-entry
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Apr 20, 2024 14:56
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convergent evolution ftw
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Apr 20, 2024 14:56
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I bet your jet has wings and an engine. How derivative.
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Apr 20, 2024 15:13
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Ardennes posted:Did they look at the F-35/F-22 when designing it, probably, and then they did their own thing because there are clear flaws with both fighters. Specifically I remember reading defense articles years ago about how the US expected copy cat designs for their latest fighter and when they came up with their own design it scared them a whole lot more. And then the US expects the chinese counterparts to get more flight hours every month for training and their poo poo isnt breaking every few months like the US , there is palpable panic in certain circles. Cao Ni Ma has issued a correction as of 15:19 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 15:16
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Owlbear Camus posted:I guess they uh... both kind of taper to a point in the nose? They don't even have the same propulsion system. at first glance, the top one looks like a high altitude drone, the bottom one is i imagine a hypersonic/suborbital glider? but yeah, same thing really i guess. no difference between a p-51 and a me-163 if you really think about it, both have a propeller up front
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Apr 20, 2024 15:19
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/19/us-troops-niger/ The US is fleeing from Niger, this comes a day after Chad told them to pack up and leave as well. E- you know the western media is going try to frame this as the evil military autocrats when there is broad support from the people in the region to kick out colonial forces Cao Ni Ma has issued a correction as of 15:27 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 15:20
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Specifically I remember reading defense articles years ago about how the US expected copy cat designs for their latest fighter and when they came up with their own design it scared them a whole lot more. Yeah, and honestly, at least in terms of specs and its profile, the J-31 may more aerodynamic, faster, and more maneuverable as well than the f-35. The F-22 is on its last legs as well, they are getting rid of 32 early production models this year. ---- News from Chad is a pretty big deal since it follows the election of a government more hostile to France in Senegal and the Central African Republic offered the Russians space for a base. It seems like the post-coup government in Gabon is also warming to the Russians as well.
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Apr 20, 2024 15:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:yeah the soviet space shuttle looked exactly like the american piece of poo poo shuttle because thats just what was aerodynamically required to be a space plane and survive re-entry space planes have no real use for earth orbital flight and the ussr knew this but wanted to be sure they weren't missing out on a critical capability which is the whole reason then developed it then a roof feel on it and destroyed it, loving giant waste of time and money lol oviets smoked the west with space if you compare relative financial/academic resources to throw at things they tended to follow better design principles from the start but then didn't have the resources to test and develop as much and they didn't get to the finish line first on a lot of things but imo their program would've come out ahead if the space race didn't end when it did FirstnameLastname has issued a correction as of 16:22 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 16:17
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Ardennes posted:The M14 is acceptable as a DMR but that is kind of it. I wouldn't really call it "acceptable" as a dmr considering the amount of work it takes to get it there and keep it there, the army just made the m21 because they had a bunch of m14s laying around collecting dust (bc they sucked)
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Apr 20, 2024 16:26
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i will hear no slander against my favorite gun from cod4
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Apr 20, 2024 16:28
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I would say also it is just also the result of the Kremlin being asleep at the wheel even before Gorbachev. It wasn't that they didn't have good scientists and engineers who did great work but there didn't seem any real urge to rapidly redirect capital until there was a crisis. Also, the Kremlin constantly invested into "super-projects" to compete if not over-compete with the US while neglecting quite a bit back home. Honestly, they could have probably gotten away with something far more simple than an entire space plane, they didn't need laser equipped satellites (this happened btw), and a lot of the more outlandish stuff probably should have been shelved. Obviously, there are core technologies that needed to be preserved and developed but there is an honest question what the Kremlin was thinking by letting much of the bloc countries join GATT or get indebt to the Paris Club well before the liberals came to power. Westerners usually overplay how bad things were and how stupid/evil etc the Soviets were even during the 1970s, but the Brezhnev malaise was real thing. It wasn't that people were starving, but there was immense passivity in terms of investment. Justin Tyme posted:I wouldn't really call it "acceptable" as a dmr considering the amount of work it takes to get it there and keep it there, the army just made the m21 because they had a bunch of m14s laying around collecting dust (bc they sucked) At least it can do that job, but as a useful service rifle (at least post-1945), not really. Basically, the Springfield arsenal had a rifle that worked (the M1) which was fine for its fine but rapidly becoming obsolete and rather than designing something from scratch like Stoner, they just kept on screwing with the M1. The AK just had already made it obsolete, and the AKM only more so. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 16:34 on Apr 20, 2024 |
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Apr 20, 2024 16:29
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Justin Tyme posted:I wouldn't really call it "acceptable" as a dmr considering the amount of work it takes to get it there and keep it there, the army just made the m21 because they had a bunch of m14s laying around collecting dust (bc they sucked) Listen, I wish the government prohibited the M14 and not the FAL, since the C1 was God's gift to the rifleman, but for whatever reason the M14 had longer legs than the FAL or G3, both of which I think were technically better rifles. Is there any particular reason for that? e: Gun Nerds: I have read that the Italian BM 59 was better than the M14, but they look literally the same to me. Can someone explain the differences, the how's and why's, because, just looking at it, idgi. 
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Apr 20, 2024 16:42
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Listen, I wish the government prohibited the M14 and not the FAL, since the C1 was God's gift to the rifleman, but for whatever reason the M14 had longer legs than the FAL or G3, both of which I think were technically better rifles. Is there any particular reason for that? Isn't the G3 still in service in some countries?
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Apr 20, 2024 18:31
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Justin Tyme posted:Isn't the G3 still in service in some countries? My understanding is that it's a perfectly good, fantastically well engineered rifle, but like the HK21 and HK33, the roller delayed blowback thing (German engineering) requires the rifles to be finely tuned by armourers over time, including for each type of ammunition, and that's why they've fallen out of use.
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Apr 20, 2024 18:37
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Justin Tyme posted:Isn't the G3 still in service in some countries?
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Apr 20, 2024 18:47
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mawarannahr posted:In Turkey they still use it. it has a reputation for being heavy. Yeah I have one + an original hensoldt claw mount scope, it is an absolute boat anchor of a firearm and has punishing recoil for being so heavy
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Apr 20, 2024 19:11
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mawarannahr posted:In Turkey they still use it. it has a reputation for being heavy. Smh they don't make Turks the way they used to 
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Apr 20, 2024 19:13
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Danann posted:
If I was an American Admiral I would be a bit concerned about the fact that the Houthis managed to force an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer to use it's CIWS to shoot down one of their missiles. If one of the poorest countries in the world can use their limited resources and Iranian help to do that it would be scary to imagine a full on attack by an industrial superpower like China. Of course I'm sure that the Americans are watching this situation closely and learning all the right lessons. Now I'll simply confirm this by checking navytimes.com:  I see. Any day now I guess...
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Apr 20, 2024 20:19
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:My understanding is that it's a perfectly good, fantastically well engineered rifle, but like the HK21 and HK33, the roller delayed blowback thing (German engineering) requires the rifles to be finely tuned by armourers over time, including for each type of ammunition, and that's why they've fallen out of use. I was about to post an image of Pacino from Heat before I realised that was an FN FNC and my memory was being dodgy.
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Apr 20, 2024 20:32
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Western iterative design vs Oriental insectoid mindless imitation
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Apr 20, 2024 22:18
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The battle rifle in general was a stupid idea. The subgun always made more sense for grunts and the idea of a full auto 308 that people carry around is just loving daft. Post ww2 it's only really a thing because the us military was drinking gallons of paint
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Apr 20, 2024 22:25
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FuzzySlippers posted:Western iterative design vs Oriental insectoid mindless imitation      
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Apr 20, 2024 22:33
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how the gently caress do you print that boat picture in that orientation? bush league work
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Apr 20, 2024 22:35
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big dong wanter posted:The battle rifle in general was a stupid idea. The subgun always made more sense for grunts and the idea of a full auto 308 that people carry around is just loving daft. Post ww2 it's only really a thing because the us military was drinking gallons of paint ar-10s are good guns, fals and g3s are fine. it's not an inherently bad idea, the m14 just sucks
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Apr 20, 2024 22:35
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Guys, guys. Check out this new AR for the US Army made by SIG...
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Apr 20, 2024 23:08
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Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:Guys, guys. Check out this new AR for the US Army made by SIG... great example of another weapon made to fix a problem that already had a solution. it stemmed from soldiers in Afghanistan engaging targets at distances that the 5.56 isn't designed for, plus there were concerns about the performance of common ammo (like the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) against enemies wearing modern body armor (y'know, Chinese and Russian infantry), so the Army came up with the NGSW program and the result is the SIG MCS SPEAR/XM7, firing the .277 Fury/6.8x51mm cartridge (which has a three-piece case that's partially steel to handle the insane chamber pressures). problem solved! except why not modify the 7.62 NATO to fit your needs? they're dimensionally similar! did I mention the XM7 comes with a suppressor because it's loud as gently caress and the barrel life is questionable due to those pressures
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Apr 21, 2024 01:57
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rudecyrus posted:great example of another weapon made to fix a problem that already had a solution. it stemmed from soldiers in Afghanistan engaging targets at distances that the 5.56 isn't designed for, plus there were concerns about the performance of common ammo (like the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) against enemies wearing modern body armor (y'know, Chinese and Russian infantry), so the Army came up with the NGSW program and the result is the SIG MCS SPEAR/XM7, firing the .277 Fury/6.8x51mm cartridge (which has a three-piece case that's partially steel to handle the insane chamber pressures). problem solved! because is there anything that MIC doesn't do that doesn't sum up to "there's not enough grift"
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Apr 21, 2024 02:36
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rudecyrus posted:great example of another weapon made to fix a problem that already had a solution. it stemmed from soldiers in Afghanistan engaging targets at distances that the 5.56 isn't designed for, plus there were concerns about the performance of common ammo (like the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) against enemies wearing modern body armor (y'know, Chinese and Russian infantry), so the Army came up with the NGSW program and the result is the SIG MCS SPEAR/XM7, firing the .277 Fury/6.8x51mm cartridge (which has a three-piece case that's partially steel to handle the insane chamber pressures). problem solved! doesn't the suppressor also need some proprietary fluid that needs constantly refilling?
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Apr 21, 2024 02:38
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also proprietary ammo
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Apr 21, 2024 02:51
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sig probably wanted to do a nonstandard proprietary pistol cartridge for the m17 as well but realized no matter how good they bribed the generals that might be a little too cute
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Apr 21, 2024 03:20
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rudecyrus posted:great example of another weapon made to fix a problem that already had a solution. it stemmed from soldiers in Afghanistan engaging targets at distances that the 5.56 isn't designed for, plus there were concerns about the performance of common ammo (like the 5.56 and 7.62 NATO) against enemies wearing modern body armor (y'know, Chinese and Russian infantry), so the Army came up with the NGSW program and the result is the SIG MCS SPEAR/XM7, firing the .277 Fury/6.8x51mm cartridge (which has a three-piece case that's partially steel to handle the insane chamber pressures). problem solved! I feel like this problem could have been solved by having a designated marksman with a long range rifle in each squad.
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Apr 21, 2024 03:55
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BearsBearsBears posted:I feel like this problem could have been solved by having a designated marksman with a long range rifle in each squad. china handles it by means of explosives your bog standard rifle squad carries a 120mm rocket launcher and a 35mm rotary automatic grenade launcher, as well as the usual SAW and rifles the 120mm pf-98 has twice the effective range of the western carl gustaf and packs 4x the explosive their grenade launchers are high-velocity weapons, so those 35mms can reach out twice as far as man-portable western 40mm launchers meanwhile your bog standard US rifle squad doesn't carry a rocket launcher of any sort, and has two single shot M320 40mm together with the SAW and rifles the rifle platoon for both has three such squads. the us rifle platoon will also have two anti-armor teams each with a javelin. the us rifle company will have two 60mm mortar sections. the chinese platoon has two 60mm mortar sections each and two additional 35mm grenade launcher sections each but sure some rifles that shoot longer for five minutes before breaking and needing to be sent back to SIG for maintenance will make the superior combat force and they definitely won't lose ww3 (the firepower disparity gets even more lopsided at the company/battallion/brigade/etc level) atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 04:31 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 04:25
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