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The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Danann posted:

the us brought some robodogs off the shelf for a few grand with flamethrowers

the russians strapped a thermobaric grenade to an fpv drone

these arent for military use theyre for fpv human hunting

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fatelvis
Mar 21, 2010

BearsBearsBears posted:

The F-35 has an honest to god touchscreen, I always assumed it was just a multi-function display. Touchscreen-operated and doesn't work in the rain, it really is the Cybertruck of fighter aircraft.

Have there been any studies on on touchscreens Vs tactile switches/buttons/knobs and usability in a stressful environment?

Touch screens suck, and I can't imagine how much more they suck if someone is shooting at you.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

mycomancy posted:

So...what happens during a mission when the codes expire? Do they just fall out of the sky?

explains what happened when that japanese guy flew over the date line lmao

Zeppelin Insanity
Oct 28, 2009

Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

fatelvis posted:

Have there been any studies on on touchscreens Vs tactile switches/buttons/knobs and usability in a stressful environment?

Touch screens suck, and I can't imagine how much more they suck if someone is shooting at you.

A bunch of the US navy ships that crashed had touchscreens for rudder control

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Anyway, the subject of the PLA came up, and particular its ground force and it is interesting to see how much it has changed since 2017.

The PLA used to have a army-division-regiment structure to army groups (army corps) and brigades with a couple divisions here and there remaining. This is arguably in some ways similar to the BTG reform that happened to the Russians and the BCTs in the US army.

Arguably, the Russians mostly unwound that though while the Chinese seem to be sticking with brigades for the time being. The Russian army is also changing by the year so it is kind of hard to get at what exactly they are going to settle on in terms of formations until the war is over.

-----

Anyway, the PLA's core ground force is divided into light/medium/heavy combined arms brigades with about 6 to every army group (with some exceptions plus artillery and support detachments). The mix is a little all over the place but they are significantly more medium and heavy combined arms centric army groups than light.

This is in contrast with the US army where the emphasis is still on its 15 IBCTs which are all light motorized infantry, 6 stryker brigades, and 12 armored brigades. This US professional army force is roughly about 1/4th of the size of the comparable portions of the PLA ground force (numbers are hard to find, and there are always changes etc etc but about 140-150k in terms of the core elements of the US Army about 550-600k in terms of China).

But really the other issue is just how they are shaped, where as even the Chinese light combined arms brigade pretty much has much more firepower from the squad to brigade level, from the individual soldier to crew serving weapons, to the vehicles themselves. The Chinese to use a light Humvee-analogue but usually they just put far more on them in armaments and have the troops inside them carry far more as well. In addition, they include large amounts of AD in all of their formations.

The medium combined arms brigades are as stark with generally with IFVs as heavily or more heavily armed than Strykers and usually more support elements with more heavily outfitted infantry, alongside the fact there are just a lot more medium mechanized elements in the army.

The heavy combined arms elements are more comparable to their American counterparts is just that the Chinese also can put more tanks in the field as well and again they have more AD in them. (Also, the Chinese have just more SPGs/MRLSs etc both in their brigades/group armies and as far as their total force etc).

Then you get into the fact that the Chinese have other long-range AD systems than the US is light on along with their own 5th generation fighters etc, you can see the issue if the F-35 is supposed to "erase" everything on the ground.

Arguably, the US wouldn't try to be seriously put foots on the ground in mainland China, if China actually decided to intervene anywhere near it on land near it, such as in Korea...it would be telling. Likewise, even if somehow NATO got its poo poo together, China could easily tip the scales if they felt like it. It is a good question of the Chinese keep the same structure or take some lessons from the Russians and combine some brigades back to armies/divisions. Arguably, the Chinese want to be flexible (sort of their entire mindset) and prefer a swiss-army knife approach where they can conduct light intensity warfare with their lighter elements while still having a powerful mechanized/armor force backed with AD elements and artillery if they need it.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:00 on Apr 24, 2024

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Truga posted:

explains what happened when that japanese guy flew over the date line lmao

The dateline is like 1,000+ miles east of where that plane crashed. It did not cross a dateline when the pilot crashed it. Ocean’s big.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

mlmp08 posted:

The dateline is like 1,000+ miles east of where that plane crashed. It did not cross a dateline when the pilot crashed it. Ocean’s big.

So it crashed because of a pop up warning about the dateline?

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
"date has changed, you have 10 minutes to enter new passcode"

welp, time to afterburn to japan

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Truga posted:

explains what happened when that japanese guy flew over the date line lmao

is this a new dateline issue? i was thinking of the older f22 story

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/stealth-fighters-hit-by-software-crash-74081

corner cases? our heavily tested well documented safety-critical software forgot to check for those :mad:

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

Delta-Wye posted:

is this a new dateline issue? i was thinking of the older f22 story

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/stealth-fighters-hit-by-software-crash-74081

corner cases? our heavily tested well documented safety-critical software forgot to check for those :mad:

I might doxx myself here: one of the checks used in the area of safety critical software I worked in that required a security clearance and wasn't military was "does the software need time of day to do it's job"

RIP Syndrome
Feb 24, 2016

Skill issue, just switch off NTP and turn back the clock a little. Enjoy the eternal F-35 trial version.

The real winner though is it also works on WinRAR

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Isentropy posted:

I might doxx myself here: one of the checks used in the area of safety critical software I worked in that required a security clearance and wasn't military was "does the software need time of day to do it's job"

let me guess, nsa or export regulations inspector?

Z the IVth
Jan 28, 2009

The trouble with your "expendable machines"
Fun Shoe

RIP Syndrome posted:

Skill issue, just switch off NTP and turn back the clock a little. Enjoy the eternal F-35 trial version.

The real winner though is it also works on WinRAR

Frantically trying to get a hold of Razer1911 as the PLA swarm across the Taiwan Strait and the auth server is down for maintenance.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Z the IVth posted:

Frantically trying to get a hold of Razer1911 as the PLA swarm across the Taiwan Strait and the auth server is down for maintenance.

razer's dead. Empress is the only one who can crack Denuvo.

AmyL
Aug 8, 2013


Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

Ardennes posted:

...even if somehow NATO got its poo poo together....

If they could get it together, how would they even start?

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

AmyL posted:

If they could get it together, how would they even start?

Beyond doing the seeming impossible, fordism; probably putting conscripts at gunpoint in any scraps of armor they can get their hands on and charging the Russians and hoping they lose nerve.

Even if all of that happened, and somehow they were able to claw their way through the Russian MIC, the PLA would just close the door anyway.

AmyL
Aug 8, 2013


Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

quote:

Beyond doing the seeming impossible, fordism; probably putting conscripts at gunpoint in any scraps of armor they can get their hands on and charging the Russians and hoping they lose nerve.

Even if all of that happened, and somehow they were able to claw their way through the Russian MIC, the PLA would just close the door anyway.

https://www.luxcapital.com/securities/defense-fordism


quote:

Securities
Defense Fordism
Danny Crichton
·
January 29, 2022

quote:

...There’s the canonical line attributed to William Gibson about the future not being equally distributed, but what happens when the future is staring you right in the face and nostalgic blindness prevents a leap to the next generation? It’s a Brave New World out there, and the Fordism of the Navy’s past and all the rest of defense is running up against the Fordism of the future. Cheap and abundant will beat expensive and rare....

Sounds like a GG, RIP, and F against the Russians, PLA, and Chinese there.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Ardennes posted:

Beyond doing the seeming impossible, fordism; probably putting conscripts at gunpoint in any scraps of armor they can get their hands on and charging the Russians and hoping they lose nerve.

Even if all of that happened, and somehow they were able to claw their way through the Russian MIC, the PLA would just close the door anyway.

I mean, there is no real technical difficulty. If you can still build cars you can build shells. It wouldn't take decades between the decision to do some industrial planning and shells rolling off the assembly line. And Russia isn't exactly the PRC. They just really really don't want to.

AmyL
Aug 8, 2013


Black Thursday was a disaster, plain and simple.
We lost too many good people, too many planes.
We can't let that kind of tragedy happen again.

quote:

I mean, there is no real technical difficulty. If you can still build cars you can build shells. It wouldn't take decades between the decision to do some industrial planning and shells rolling off the assembly line. And Russia isn't exactly the PRC. They just really really don't want to.

You still have to move the shells in the US using rail, you have to load them in ships using cranes, and you have to transport them to whatever theatre they will be in.

There are a lot of other things involved but with the current condition of US rail infrastructure and ship-building even after infrastructure week...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2021/09/29/why-the-us-armys-rail-transport-system-is-a-wreck/

quote:


The U.S. Army’s rail transportation system is a wreck, according to a recent U.S. government report.

The Army depends on railroads to move personnel and equipment, especially heavy vehicles like tanks. But the tracks connecting Army installations are in poor repair, and the Army lacks sufficient railroad crews to transport units to ports for deployment overseas during a crisis.

“Army inspectors characterized about half of the Army’s rail track as closed due to defects, and four of 60 installations had not met or were not scheduled to meet the 5-year ultrasonic inspection timeline standard set by the Army inspection program,” according to the report by the Government Accountability Office. “Although the Army has some quality assurance efforts, it has not established an overall quality assurance program to ensure that its track is inspected and that deficiencies are corrected according to existing protocols.”

Nor are there sufficient railroad crews. In 2015, the Army slashed its railroad personnel by 70 percent, in favor of relying on commercial rail carriers in the U.S., and railroads operated by foreign governments when American troops operate overseas. The Army’s rail units shrunk from four battalions to just one battalion – the 757th Expeditionary Rail Center (ERC).

The 757th ERC told GAO that the unit would “likely be unable to meet the simultaneous overseas and CONUS missions during a large-scale combat operation, but that they saw no other solution to the lack of sufficient, trained rail operating crews,” according to the report. The Army doesn’t even know how many rail crews it needs to transport its units in the event of a mobilization.

But recent history suggests that if the Army needs to move large numbers of troops, it will need a lot of trains. “Army officials have stated that during contingencies, approximately 67 percent of Army unit equipment moves by rail from its fort or base of origin to a shipping port,” GAO noted. “In 2003, for example, nearly 1 million tons of unit equipment moved by rail in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. This is the rough equivalent of moving more than twice the total number of M1-series tanks currently in the Army inventory.”
...

AmyL has issued a correction as of 17:06 on Apr 24, 2024

mags
May 30, 2008

I am a congenital optimist.

can’t sortie, software is updating

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



your fire control system is updating

please do not engage any targets while this update completes

your fighter jet may restart several times during this process

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020

Clip-On Fedora posted:

mawarannahr posted:
South Korea's F35 fighter jet needs a U.S. password to start up every day - Straturka


South Korea will lose KW2.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

genericnick posted:

I mean, there is no real technical difficulty. If you can still build cars you can build shells. It wouldn't take decades between the decision to do some industrial planning and shells rolling off the assembly line. And Russia isn't exactly the PRC. They just really really don't want to.

It is a little more complicated than that, you need years and plenty of supporting infrastructure. The Russians could do it because honestly their rail system is not only less burdened but even before the war they had been building plants and that only accelerated. It isn’t just shells either but everything at a certain point including the guns themselves and AFVs.

The West would not only have to spend a huge amount of money, there is no real reason Russia/Iran/NK wouldn’t scale either.

tatankatonk
Nov 4, 2011

Pitching is the art of instilling fear.
Could a touchscreen be disrupted by EW stuff?

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

tatankatonk posted:

Could a touchscreen be disrupted by EW stuff?

probably no more or less than a computer-controlled aircraft with mechanical gauges

mags
May 30, 2008

I am a congenital optimist.
has anyone gotten Doom to run on an F-35 yet

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

Lostconfused posted:

Well obviously US strategic planners expect a minimum 24 hours notice before to be the ones initiating the start of world war 3.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Minimum 24 hours notice also implied that :colbert:

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

AmyL posted:

quote:

The 757th ERC told GAO that the unit would “likely be unable to meet the simultaneous overseas and CONUS missions during a large-scale combat operation, but that they saw no other solution to the lack of sufficient, trained rail operating crews,” according to the report. The Army doesn’t even know how many rail crews it needs to transport its units in the event of a mobilization.
:rubby:

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



https://www.defensenews.com/land/2024/04/25/us-army-to-shift-aviation-force-structure-back-to-tailored-brigades/

More evidence that the US is moving away from the "Modern" brigade concept into the traditional division one

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010

mawarannahr posted:

let me guess, nsa or export regulations inspector?

Nuclear. :)

Morbus
May 18, 2004

Owlbear Camus posted:

your fire control system is updating

please do not engage any targets while this update completes

your fighter jet may restart several times during this process

How would you rate this ejection?
* * * * *

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

🤯

Isentropy
Dec 12, 2010


Just to be clear heavy water facilities and some US ones. Most of my work was for somewhere up north in Ontario, FF knows where.

ianmacdo
Oct 30, 2012

OctaMurk posted:

i miss the good old days of shareware and infinitely long trials

They're back with windows 10. I had to fix my parents computer and I changed too many parts so it thought it was a new computer, but you can just ignore the msg and it just watermarks the bottom corner of the screen but still works.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Z the IVth posted:

Frantically trying to get a hold of Razer1911 as the PLA swarm across the Taiwan Strait and the auth server is down for maintenance.
razer1911? is that the chair model in the plane

e: lmao i was joking but of course razer now also sells chairs https://www.razer.com/eu-en/gaming-chairs/razer-iskur-v2
i wonder if they come with drm

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Everyone makes their own chair. They all come out of the same chinese factories. Steve made a video on how easy it is to get a quote from one of the companies to just select the type of shape, extras and then just slap on your logo on it.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
does the f-35 logo also have rainbow leds tho

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Cao Ni Ma posted:

Everyone makes their own chair. They all come out of the same chinese factories. Steve made a video on how easy it is to get a quote from one of the companies to just select the type of shape, extras and then just slap on your logo on it.

the mre guy? he's got his chair merchandise now?

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The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

imagining a dude just so stoked to sit on office chairs and tell you about it. let's sit on this one out on display. nice

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