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Gripweed posted:It drives me crazy how you can’t talk about this stuff in real life. If you mention in conversation with friends or family that America is completely incapable of fighting a peer war, or that everything people in the west know about Ukraine comes from a Ukrainian-Canadian nazi conspiracy, at best they’ll just change the subject. Even on other sub forums on SA, if you say that the US military is having a recruiting crisis because autistic children are sexually fixated on wolves, they think you’re crazy! You can see how this is a problem at the ole 9-5.
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Mar 30, 2024 02:34
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poisonpill posted:got a good source? quite a few articles in wapo mentioning it in passing iirc, just google the keywords e: oh heres a recent one from nyt
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Mar 30, 2024 06:06
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Gripweed posted:Even on other sub forums on SA, if you say that the US military is having a recruiting crisis because autistic children are sexually fixated on wolves, they think you’re crazy! What?
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Mar 30, 2024 06:24
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Gripweed posted:It drives me crazy how you can’t talk about this stuff in real life. If you mention in conversation with friends or family that America is completely incapable of fighting a peer war, or that everything people in the west know about Ukraine comes from a Ukrainian-Canadian nazi conspiracy, at best they’ll just change the subject. Even on other sub forums on SA, if you say that the US military is having a recruiting crisis because autistic children are sexually fixated on wolves, they think you’re crazy! PawParole posted:What? He's being absurd, the problem is Americans not being able or willing to fight an actual war not the sexual fixation with wolves. The turkic people exist because a boy was sexually fixated on a wolf and their children founded multiple nomadic empires. Even today Turkey is certainly a near-peer to the US and honestly I'm not sure in which direction it's a near-peer.
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Mar 30, 2024 07:06
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awooooooo~!
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Mar 30, 2024 07:34
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The US will lose World War Three Wolf Moon
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Mar 30, 2024 08:34
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inside your military-industrial complex there are two wolves
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Mar 30, 2024 09:05
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Having harmless furry tattoos is better than having Nazi tattoos
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Mar 30, 2024 09:20
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The Oldest Man posted:ff what do you think about towed artillery being done forever and replaced with autonomous robot spgs hard agree, i think Ukraine has proved that any fixed firebase now and in the future will be hunted down by ordered-on-Amazon drones with old mortar bombs taped to them everything from 155s to like 60mm mortars needs to be on wheels now we need a computer-laid rocket artillery system that's road mobile, somewhere around 100-120mm, optionally with smart warheads, that can be loaded by infantry and by a specialized vehicle for more intensive missions. So Hawkeye 105mm with the largest charge can reach out 17.5km/10.9 mi and with rocket assistance, 19.5 km/12.1 mi. A 🇿🇦 Valkiri 127mm MRLS system meanwhile has a range of 36 km (22 mi); a Serbian 128mm system has smart long-range projectiles up to 50 km (31 mi). One advantage rocket artillery has over conventional artillery is rapidly saturating a target and being a much lighter system for road vehicles. Conventional artillery is cheaper and easier for regular people to handle for sustained fire.
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Mar 30, 2024 13:03
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stephenthinkpad posted:Having harmless furry tattoos is better than having Nazi tattoos sometimes its both!
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Mar 30, 2024 13:06
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PawParole posted:What? There was a strange derail a few pages back
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Mar 30, 2024 13:14
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Cerebral Bore posted:inside your military-industrial complex there are two wolves wolves get your tax, arisen!
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Mar 30, 2024 14:53
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Real hurthling! posted:wolves get your tax, arisen! 
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Mar 30, 2024 14:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Marinetimes/status/1773000785984377205?t=aUrfWi1vMn2k3tIDrmkAIw&s=19 Wake up people! Go back to sleep
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Mar 30, 2024 17:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Marinetimes/status/1773000785984377205?t=aUrfWi1vMn2k3tIDrmkAIw&s=19 more proof that the US military's gotten too woke
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Mar 30, 2024 17:40
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poisonpill posted:more proof that the US military's gotten too woke Heh
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Mar 30, 2024 17:43
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Marinetimes/status/1773000785984377205?t=aUrfWi1vMn2k3tIDrmkAIw&s=19
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Mar 30, 2024 18:28
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PawParole posted:What? BearsBearsBears posted:He's being absurd, the problem is Americans not being able or willing to fight an actual war not the sexual fixation with wolves. The turkic people exist because a boy was sexually fixated on a wolf and their children founded multiple nomadic empires. Even today Turkey is certainly a near-peer to the US and honestly I'm not sure in which direction it's a near-peer. Additionally, if you have any other questions on this topic, please refer to the origin myth of the Roman Empire. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Romulus-and-Remus posted:
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Mar 30, 2024 18:52
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if cia funded provocateurs intensify their attacks on concert halls, parades and other civilian getherings, vicotry will surely be ours
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Mar 30, 2024 19:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:hard agree, i think Ukraine has proved that any fixed firebase now and in the future will be hunted down by ordered-on-Amazon drones with old mortar bombs taped to them I'm just glad that I'm not one of the officers that has to figure out how you organise a war where any concentration of troops and equipment can be hit at any time, not just on the front lines.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:07
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This has been the situation since 1914, you guys are being ridiculous. "Oh no! The enemy might shoot back and strike with firepower the way we do! Whatever will we do?"
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Mar 30, 2024 19:08
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Fixed artillery has been at risk of being blown up at range since the advent of... artillery.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:11
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Regarde Aduck posted:awooooooo~!
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Mar 30, 2024 19:12
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bobtheconqueror posted:Fixed artillery has been at risk of being blown up at range since the advent of... artillery. Exactly. Artillery crews are supposed to be able to withstand heavy casualties and stand by the guns, but nobody wants to go down colours flying anymore 
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Mar 30, 2024 19:19
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"towed guns are cope and obsolete old man!" I yell, as a thousand D-20's crater my position like the surface of the moon
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Mar 30, 2024 19:21
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I would simply have more towed guns than the enemy and maybe intersperse them with some kind of other towed artillery that shoots really tiny shells, perhaps with some kind of timed fuse
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Mar 30, 2024 19:26
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Exactly. name an extant country worth dying for.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:29
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Dixon Chisholm posted:name an extant country worth dying for.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:30
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Anyway drones clearly don't have a problem hitting vehicles as well. SPGs are useful clearly, but it is also about the amount of firepower you are going to be able to project toward the enemy. If you give up your towed artillery, you give up a significant degree of that firepower. Anyway, the proper response to drones isn't to try and run away but beef up EW and local AD capabilities.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:32
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I for one think it would be very good for the US to replace their existing towed howitzers with fantasy projects that will never get made, and I would like to encourage them to do it.
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Mar 30, 2024 19:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:hard agree, i think Ukraine has proved that any fixed firebase now and in the future will be hunted down by ordered-on-Amazon drones with old mortar bombs taped to them an assembly line for towed artillery will always be smaller and less resource intensive compared to a line for sp artillery so when scaled up the towed artillery is always going to have the highest potential volume of fire per cost to manufacture not even factoring in maintenance etc. rocket artillery can concentrate fire in larger bursts and from further away but it's basically converting the labor/resources that would yield a larger overall amount of firepower across a larger timespan, and compressing/packaging it for specific use, rockets are burstier and have better packaging but they'll never be more economical because each shot fired has its own engine, fuel, guidance computers so across the span of an industrial war they'll always be relegated to a situational tool if towed artillery actually went extinct it would be from something that made standard rifles extinct too bc they both fit in their niche for economic reasons more than anything, using all self propelled artillery or rockey artillery is a "why don't they build the whole plane out of the black box?" kinda thing
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Mar 30, 2024 19:46
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I for one think it would be very good for the US to replace their existing towed howitzers with fantasy projects that will never get made, and I would like to encourage them to do it. I would rather have infrastructure and health care and education. the fantasy weapons won't get made either way
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Mar 30, 2024 19:48
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:I for one think it would be very good for the US to replace their existing towed howitzers with fantasy projects that will never get made, and I would like to encourage them to do it. 
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Mar 30, 2024 19:49
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Dixon Chisholm posted:name an extant country worth dying for. 
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Mar 30, 2024 20:11
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The Voice of Labor posted:I would rather have infrastructure and health care and education. the fantasy weapons won't get made either way you're not getting infrastructure, healthcare or proper education either way
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Mar 30, 2024 20:22
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The Voice of Labor posted:I would rather have infrastructure and health care and education. the fantasy weapons won't get made either way fantasy infrastructure and health care and education
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Mar 30, 2024 20:37
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i tried figuring out motor, chip and pcb production figures because i have a hunch the fpv drone proliferation situation wouldn't scale to a conflict larger than ukraine when civilian electronics markets can't supply you but holy poo poo is the electronics market capital-brained to the point where i'm having a hell of a time finding output in material terms rather than dollar terms that and search engines are worthless ofc e: i did find a little bit of us will lose ww3 in the attempt as it sure seems like the us department of commerce only uses dollars to define the size of the electronics companies supplying the us military atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 21:12 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 20:42
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Also, push comes to shove, towed artillery also is an available tool that exists and can do work, it is a lot easier for the Russians to take D-20 out of storage and maybe replace the tires or the barrel that it is to build a new system out of scratch. Just keeping spare towed guns around just allows you to properly support mobilized infantry if nothing else even if it is an old fashion way of doing things. Admittedly, the US is going to pick the option that makes someone some money.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:08
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FirstnameLastname posted:rocket artillery can concentrate fire in larger bursts and from further away but it's basically converting the labor/resources that would yield a larger overall amount of firepower across a larger timespan, and compressing/packaging it for specific use, rockets are burstier and have better packaging but they'll never be more economical because each shot fired has its own engine, fuel, guidance computers so across the span of an industrial war they'll always be relegated to a situational tool This is NATO-brain. The Russians use the Grad system which normally fires unguided rockets. The fuel also shouldn't count against rockets as each as artillery shells also need to have its own "fuel". Rocket engines can be made very simply as well and I think you would need to count barrel wear on tube artillery as it has to endure harsher conditions. I'm not convinced that there is a great cost difference between using non-stupid version of rocket and tube artillery. There great tactical differences with rocket artillery being better at burst bombardment and tube artillery being better at sustained bombardment. Would love to see any documentation of on the comparative costs of using each type (instead of just acquiring the system). I can't find any myself.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:21
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The 2S1 and M109 were supposed to replaced towed guns in armoured and mechanized units, and for a lot of reasons they largely did, and were largely successful. It's just that we've basically forgotten how to make cheap automotive components. It should not be hard to make a modern M113 chassis, but here we are. However, airborne, airmobile, marine and otherwise expeditionary units have always required light equipment, which means towed. We've discussed to death that in 1991 this was the dream, right? Deploy forces worldwide on C-5s and C-17s to knock over whatever government we want. The point is that these systems were always envisioned to be a mix, they serve different needs. The only country to go all-in on SP guns was Israel, with an inventory of only M109s after 83, but it's important to remember that Israel gets equipment for free and maintains it with other people's money, so these are not universally applicable principles. DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 21:38 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 21:29
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