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Binary Logic posted:Has anyone ever referenced him? eg, "I want to get in Andolov's head. Really crawl in there and see what he's thinking. Like Craig Schwartz in Being John Malkovich" Have these random, oddly very specific pop culture references always been part of the show and I'm just only noticing them this season, or have they just been cranked up to 11 this particular season or the last few? I find myself just cringing at every single one of them because they're all so loving forced, random and terribly written. What I hate is how specific they are (Like I get the reference if it was about "the guy in Being John Malkovich", but going so specifically as to naming the character, Craig Schwartz, with his full first and last name? Seems so bizzarely specific that no one even as wittily Sorkin-written as these guys are would know ). It also feels constant now too, like every conversation must have one, over the top reference I don't mind the pop culture metaphors and references but when they make it sound so forced and for characters that would never know those references it really just jars me out of a usually interesting and gripping drama. It's actually taking me to the point of maybe getting out of the show entirely. Like, the ones that quote movies or whatever are fine and normal, or "it's chickentown" is fine, or throwing in some impressions but some of these are just written like a wikipedia citation Oysters Autobio fucked around with this message at 05:00 on May 8, 2019 |
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May 8, 2019 04:48
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The show has been renewed for season 5.
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May 8, 2019 20:42
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Oasx posted:The show has been renewed for season 5. At this stage, it's going to be loving President Chuck or something.
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May 8, 2019 21:21
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Six seasons and a movie lets go
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May 9, 2019 01:30
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I'm doing a rewatch of the first and second seasons, and holy lord what is up with all the vaping? I feel like none of the characters smoked after the second season
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May 13, 2019 02:11
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Oasx posted:The show has been renewed for season 5. Sweet, I'm on board with this show getting a nice long 7-8 season run, round it all out nicely and go out while you still have a bit of steam left in the tank. Some fun returns in this episode with the alpha Jock therapist and the doctor Chuck, Wendy, and Axe framed. The medical board tie-in was fun there, as was Chuck doing some 3-D chess in pretty much just visiting him to make sure Connerty knew what he wanted. I'm pretty baffled that Chuck didn't just pick saving Wendy in exchange for the train, but I guess at least it seemed that at the end of it he went with no deal on that rather than outright siding with getting his Dad's ask done. Hopefully we find out what's behind this mobile voting thing soon seeing as he just mortgaged his marriage to keep that in his pocket. Stuff like this always comes out too, and once Wendy finds out he didn't do it I feel like that's the deathblow to their marriage. If Connerty was on his game, or operating at Chuck's diabolical level, I think he would have put together that Chuck may tell her he couldn't get it done and use that as leverage or just tell her to get some revenge. On the other hand I didn't really dig the Axe Cap side of things this episode, kind of all stuff we've seen before. At least we get the new Taylor romance (swerve in it not being their right-hand blonde lady) and Taylor knowing where to hit Axe out of it. I hope the status quo there changes soon, seeing Axe and Taylor take shots at each other has been fun but I'm good with just a season of that, and in Axe's case in particular it feels like 80% of what we've seen is him lashing out in revenge against rich people he feels have wronged him, with the other 20% being him defending himself against Chuck. Basically I kind of want to see some new angles taken with the characters and who they're in opposition against, kind of like how Wendy's been shaken up as of late. Her shift into full evil manipulator mode feels like a real change, whereas Axe is still doing Axe stuff and Chuck's doing Chuck stuff. Since I like the show and the actors I still like seeing them do their stuff, but I'd like some new twists beyond them doing the same stuff to different people. Edit: It just occurred to me that Connerty thinking a guy is a super great therapist and life coach because he made some gross references to Japanese culture is a really brilliant callback to all the random Japanese culture he's espoused over the series, and I want to give that its due. I may have some complaints about other characters' overall arcs and repetitive storytelling, but between Connertysandwich.gif and this I'm fully content with that character. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 06:00 on May 13, 2019 |
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May 13, 2019 05:39
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Chuck's dad continues to be the best. The slinky and his comment that it he is still playing with it tomorrow they should put all their energies into the girl is perfect. As was his night soil comment.
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May 13, 2019 16:15
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Have Connerty and Wendy ever shared a scene together? I'm trying to think of pairings that haven't been done yet and might make for fun television Chuck interrogating Taylor has to happen at some point - that's going to be bonkers
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May 15, 2019 02:35
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Vernacular posted:Haha was that Tim Ferriss as one of Mafee's trainers? And Jocko Willink was Dollar Bill's trainer. Real deep dives on the self help podcast universe.
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May 16, 2019 21:22
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Connerty, Wendy and Chuck had a big scene together at Chuck's house where Connerty was trying to convince them to take a plea deal related to the whole Ice Juice mess. For the most part they haven't been together though, I agree that Connerty should get paired up with Wendy and Taylor eventually, that'll be fun. I'm also game to see Connerty realize Chuck's too smooth to really take out, or just get firmly beaten by him, and then work an angle to go after Axe instead. As chummy as Axe and Chuck are now there has to be a lasting sentiment on both sides that they'd like to see the other taken out of power, and I think it's an interesting character moment if Connerty has Axe dead to rights on something major and only Chuck could possibly throw a wrench into it, but instead of the obvious choice of stopping it because of their alliance and because he can't stand to see Connerty do what he couldn't he decides that ultimately he wants to see Axe burn and lets it happpen, blowing up their comraderie in the process.
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May 17, 2019 17:50
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So did the producers just decide that they didn't want to compete with the GoT finale tonight?
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May 20, 2019 04:30
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Vernacular posted:So did the producers just decide that they didn't want to compete with the GoT finale tonight? Yep
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May 20, 2019 10:44
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Vernacular posted:So did the producers just decide that they didn't want to compete with the GoT finale tonight? https://twitter.com/briankoppelman/status/1130078326838710272?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet Not sure why they would do this in TYOOL 2019 when almost everyone is watching via on demand / streaming anyways.
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May 20, 2019 16:54
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May be a way to not gently caress up their ratings as well
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May 20, 2019 18:28
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First really good episode in a while I think they're finally going to pull the trigger on Wendy and Axe sleeping with each other Can't tell if the blonde woman is mad about Taylor sleeping with an employee because of professional reasons, or because she wants to sleep with Taylor instead Connerty's going to get caught trying to break into Chuck's house
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May 27, 2019 02:43
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EugeneJ posted:First really good episode in a while This season has had a few misses. (Way too much weird References for no reason) but this episode wasn’t just good, it was paced like a good season one or two episode of the west wing. Same level or writing.
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May 27, 2019 04:03
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I actually didn't like this episode as much as some of the past ones this season since it was so direct and on the nose with its themes and what was causing the wheels to turn in characters' heads. It's always been very much that type of show most of the time, just something about how it was done this time bothered me, even when it was being done well. I definitely think we're seeing that groundwork being put down for Wendy sleeping with Axe, and probably some of my dislike for the episode is from me not wanting to see that happen since it's such a conventional plot move. It creates plenty of good drama, and Axe being super supportive and that being extra effective with where Wendy's marriage is at makes loads of sense and hits harder because of it, but for me personally that's not a road I want to see traveled. I also didn't like that Chuck didn't pick up on the Treasury Secretary suddenly being half mime, hell he's had so many "smart" feats that I expected him to pick up on there being a bug as soon as he found out both his father and his family were out of their respective homes on that day. Maybe we'll get a nice little rewind and see that he started passing notes to his Dad ahead of the meeting. I'm certainly expecting that "the one at most risk" they're referring to is AG Jock and Chuck is turning this bug situation around to sink his enemy, with that Safe acting as a trap to help that avenue of attack. Kind of going to be real disappointed if Chuck's caught completely unaware on this, hell I'm on board for him knowing that he was spotted with the Judge all the way back to the wiretap being granted and having played that sweet, sweet long game since that's a narrative device I never get tired of. Still, certainly not a bad episode and plenty of interesting character stuff in there. I like that the sense I got was Chuck is in sync with S1/S2 Wendy with the plea deal but they've grown too far apart for him to recognize that she'd rather compromise her morals and sense of being a good person significantly and get a full win than take a deal, avoid the board meeting, and view herself as good without having to go on the record and be grilled. I feel like Wendy's also gone along with things that Chuck or Axe have told her are the way to go before, and this was a case where she wasn't willing to immediately defer to one party. With all that said, I feel like I can count on the show to manufacture a situation where Axe has to do serious harm to Wendy to get himself out of trouble (Ice Juice debacle but way more intense and unavoidable), and I'm down for either of the obvious possibilities there whether it's Axe throwing her under the bus or him not being willing to do it and that's what finally has him taken down and facing the harshest possibly consequences I can imagine for the character short of somebody deciding to straight up murder Axe: 3-5 years in a cushy Federal Prison and only having about a billion dollars stashed in an offshore account somewhere, and losing his trading license for good. Well I was due for a wall of words on this show I probably care about too much. One good thing I can definitely say about it is it seemed like Maggie Siff was acting her rear end off in this one, so that was fun to see.
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May 28, 2019 11:17
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I find it hard to believe Chuck wouldn't have even attempted to bullshit through the "when did you know" question. Wendy's obviously fishing for some kind of validation. Chuck's been trying to hold the family together. Chuck is a repository for anecdotes and stories. Make something up. I figured Wendy would see through it or find him insincere so we'd end up in the same place either way. To just punt on the question felt out of character.
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May 28, 2019 17:22
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Yes that stood out to me too. I was expecting a 5 minute story with several diversions and a twist ending from Chuck not an abrupt "No". Similarly uncharacteristic when Wendy went to talk to Taylor and they said they wouldn't go to the hearing - what?!
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May 28, 2019 17:50
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Oysters Autobio posted:Have these random, oddly very specific pop culture references always been part of the show and I'm just only noticing them this season, or have they just been cranked up to 11 this particular season or the last few? Thank goodness I'm not the only one who can't stand it. I think it is worse this season and it makes me cringe every time.
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May 28, 2019 22:16
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nooneofconsequence posted:I find it hard to believe Chuck wouldn't have even attempted to bullshit through the "when did you know" question. Wendy's obviously fishing for some kind of validation. Chuck's been trying to hold the family together. Chuck is a repository for anecdotes and stories. Make something up. I figured Wendy would see through it or find him insincere so we'd end up in the same place either way. To just punt on the question felt out of character. I thought that was strange as well, but it does fit in amongst mounting evidence that their relationship doesn't have the same meaning for him that it once did (despite occasionally paying lip service to wanting to keep things together). The dom/sub dynamic being thrown into question and subsequently publicized, Chuck not cutting the deal with Connerty to get Wendy off the hook, etc. I think he's (they're?) losing interest in maintaining the charade. Agreed though that the writers telegraphed it hard and it felt awkwardly done. I don't think I would mind the show veering off into Wendy-sleeping-with-Axe territory. It's a trope, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it won't have interesting ramifications for the show. It's also kind of been pre-ordained in a way, has it not? And the show does have a kind of a grandiose Shakespearean/Greek tragic feel, so it would be "in character". Besides, with things starting to feel more obviously recycled, it might be a good time to start ushering in the final act.
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May 29, 2019 01:58
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Maybe Wendy doesn't need to gently caress Axe, she just needs a warm comforting embrace. Or she could go after hapless harmless Ben Kim, give that actor something to do. Our Health and Safety Committee had someone come in to gave us 20 minute chair massages; I'm going to request a professional hugger and see what they say. (They already turned down my request for basketball finals tickets to help office morale). So yeah at least twice in the past few episodes Chuck has offered Wendy help and she's responded by attacking him, I can understand if he's not feeling their relationship is worth working on. Still, he rarely passes up the opportunity to tell a story like that. Maybe the show's writers use cultural references to distract us from the 180 degree turns the characters go through to maximize conflict like Keyser Söze limping to throw detectives off.
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May 29, 2019 10:43
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Vernacular posted:I don't think I would mind the show veering off into Wendy-sleeping-with-Axe territory. It's a trope, no doubt, but that doesn't mean it won't have interesting ramifications for the show. It's also kind of been pre-ordained in a way, has it not? And the show does have a kind of a grandiose Shakespearean/Greek tragic feel, so it would be "in character". Wendy ending up with Axe and Chuck ending up with Lara would be fitting If Chuck can't sink Axe in court, he can definitely find satisfaction in loving his ex-wife and spending his money Chuck would need a strong other-half if he ever wants to run for governor/president - Lara fits the bill
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May 29, 2019 14:33
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"The kamikaze get a bad name, because everyone wants to focus on the suicide. But what they miss out on is...the purity of the commitment!" This Cobra Kai side story for Connerty is so strange. And hilarious. Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 01:21 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 01:12
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Binary Logic posted:"The kamikaze get a bad name, because everyone wants to focus on the suicide. But what they miss out on is...the purity of the commitment!" The arc was perfect timing for him. Restored some of the moral charge that had become such a defining trademark for the character, while also preventing him from slipping away entirely into some makeshift antagonist dead zone. As shlocky as it felt sometimes, I think Connerty was always an important moral counterweight amongst the purely macchiavellian egos of the show, so it's good to see the writers at least attempting to bring his recent machinations into alignment with his overarching need for moral grounding.
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May 30, 2019 01:49
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I mean, Connerty's about to do some real unethical and unmoral stuff, probably the most clean cut case of him being shady in the show so far if he even tries to steal what's in that safe, so I think this counseling is justifying and feeding in to his desire to switch to breaking the rules. I hadn't thought of a wife swap but that would be a fun dynamic to explore, as much as part of me would still hate it I'd like a Wendy/Axe pairing a lot more if that happened. Put me down for Taylor showing up for the hearing after all, either because they really are committed to Axe-style vengeance to the point of lying about showing up to accentuate the impact or because something new happens before the hearing that pisses them off and makes them want to lash out at Axe/Wendy. I feel like we've seen Wendy lose less often than we've seen proper losses chalked up to the various other major cast members over the course of the show, and with her clearly being emotionally vulnerable, in conflict with herself, and enduring the public humilation of her sex practices being public I think we need to see her really lose the hearing to complete that arc and truly set her back, to the point that she's really at a different point in her character's arc going in to the next season. If she fully wins the hearing then she avoids the consequences of her actions, and even if she gets that win with dirty play Axe tactics, lying to the committee, or emotionally manipulating Taylor that's kind of just her showing that she's willing to get her hands dirty, and that's been clear ever since she was totally on board with setting up somebody to get out from under Ice Juice. A loss that results in her losing her license but Axe still 110% on board with working with her and giving her some kind of crazy high profile job title (I think something like V.P. of the company or otherwise basically at a Wags level) and an insane bonus/new salary, and her taking it but still clearly being super unhappy, all that seems like solid plot stuff that moves characters forward. Oh, and while I'm making wild predictions put me down for some other character who isn't Connerty making a huge kamikaze play that basically destroys themselves in some way but really harms someone else. That seems like a play that Chuck's dad would make, for instance, if it meant preserving his family's name and his son's career, but really I'm expecting it from someone more minor like Dollar Bill. There's been plenty of stuff that involved mutual damage, Ice Juice being the obvious example, but I just get the feeling that we'll see someone accept a true and complete "death" of something very dear to them, such as their career or freedom, for the sake of vengeance. Imagining Connerty's therapist using super weak and like, basically pre-broken boards made me smile too, but I think the guy takes himself too seriously to go that far and just went with the standard martial artist boards used for that sort of thing, which in fairness seem to be pretty weak already. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jun 3, 2019 |
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May 31, 2019 11:04
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NowonSA posted:I hadn't thought of a wife swap but that would be a fun dynamic to explore, as much as part of me would still hate it I'd like a Wendy/Axe pairing a lot more if that happened. I mean, gently caress, imagine how pissed Lara would get when she finds out Wendy and Axe are a couple And then there's Rebecca (who I'm already tired of) - she'll also seek blood if Axe cheats on her
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May 31, 2019 13:35
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I hope they don’t go that direction, Axe and Wendy having no romantic or sexual attraction to each other is one of the good things about the show.
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May 31, 2019 15:10
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NowonSA posted:I mean, Connerty's about to do some real unethical and unmoral stuff, probably the most clean cut case of him being shady in the show so far if he even tries to steal what's in that safe, so I think this counseling is justifying and feeding in to his desire to switch to breaking the rules. Right but my point was that it restores a sense of moral context (be it rooted in honesty and jurisprudence or, in this case, not) to his actions, which the writers had dropped the ball with this season up until this counselor arc. It was kind of gratifying on some level watching him go full scumbag out of nowhere, but it was also a weird dehumanization of a character that had always been the token “human” on the show. It’s good that we’re once again getting windows into his meditations on purpose.
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May 31, 2019 16:47
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Well I didn't get the "in on it all along" wiretap story I wanted, at least not yet (and if they do reveal that it's a heck of a weird scene we saw between them, though if only Chuck knew ahead of time that could still work), but Jock is definitely screwed here (or in the near future next season) and I'm looking forward to seeing how Chuck bobbed and weaved his way through it. I also like that it's hard to picture it as a clean smooth win too, even if he used the wiretap against them (which isn't a certainty), he still has to work around the contract getting sniped. I suppose technically our favorite lady prosecutor could have turned on Chuck, but I don't believe that for a second. She brought up how she learned from him and now she's running basically the same play that Chuck tried to run at the end of last season, where she's giving info/working with Jock in exchange for professional advancement while really using that as part of the longer game. Happy that Wendy went with a full confession there, gotta lose that license to keep things moving forward! It also means that Chuck having that favor to cash in and save her license, but choosing not to, might not be a big ol hand grenade that could ruin their relationship if it comes out, and given this show loves to bring back stuff like that I feel like Connerty's gonna tell Wendy at some point. A fun episode this week, it's predictable that Axe is going to use Saler's and blow up his new relationship just to deal a serious blow to Taylor, but it'll still be fun to see the fallout. Even funner if Taylor knew it was coming and instead hurts Axe's relationships while keeping their own financial interests safe, or even better profiting. I guess I just want characters in this show playing 4D chess and making moves that we the audience don't know about until the big reveal, the way that Ice Juice played out with the flashbacks and all that really spoiled me.
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Jun 3, 2019 12:18
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NowonSA posted:Well I didn't get the "in on it all along" wiretap story I wanted, at least not yet It seems like they’ve left it set up to even more plausibly screw Connerty - they left the safe plotline with Bobby’s man (Hall) noticing the painting was askew, and Connerty can’t use his own pictures for anything, so they may now know the best course of action is to swap the papers for something else that will get pulled under warrant. Plus there’s Jeffcoat pushing him to go around the taint team.
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Jun 3, 2019 18:10
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Listen, I didn't face ten long tours against the goddamn 'bots to come back home and lift baby weights.
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Oasx posted:I hope they don’t go that direction, Axe and Wendy having no romantic or sexual attraction to each other is one of the good things about the show. I assumed they already slept with each other but never talk about it. I thought that was the whole "Lovers goodbye" thing from the first season. It could have been retconned, but that was totally the vibe I got from it.
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Jun 4, 2019 18:27
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That was a fairly predictable ending.
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Jun 9, 2019 21:40
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https://www.theringer.com/tv/2019/6/7/18656652/billions-season-4-finale-similes
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Jun 9, 2019 22:03
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They came so close to loving So close! Taylor telling their girlfriend about the trojan horse is going to be a fatal mistake - Wendy's going to sniff that poo poo out
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Jun 10, 2019 00:44
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Maybe I'm just weird, but I'll be so loving annoyed if Axe and Wendy wind up sexually or romantically entangled with each other. I feel like their connection is oriented differently, where Wendy recognizes and reflects Axe's inner machinations with such clarity that sex or romance between them would be practically masturbatory. I can see how Axe's story about his realization of Wendy's importance a couple episodes ago could have been the writers setting up a romantic plotline, but I also interpreted it as an example of how she divined his inner struggles and then held him to account. She's a counterbalance to his ego that he himself lacks but needs to function as a complete human being. Then again, maybe I'm just romanticizing the hell out of her character's role within the show. I did think the closing scene with Chuck was an ideal ending for him. He does poo poo in his position that fills him with enough self-loathing that he can fully submit to a good ol' whipping from the dominatrix? Fantastic! I'm almost sad next season is going to come around and gently caress that up.
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Jun 10, 2019 07:20
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Yeah it would be massively disappointing and cliche if they went for it after all this time. The time for that tripe would have been in season 1 when they were still establishing the characters, now it would just be weird.
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Jun 10, 2019 07:36
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I got my Chuck long-term masterminding that I wanted and then some, going back way further than I expected it to. I wonder what Connerty's going to be doing next season, I'd be shocked to see the one character who has been in literally every episode (weirdly somehow Axe, Chuck and Wendy were all missing from at least one episode in there at some point, if I'm remembering my random imdbing correctly) just drop out of the picture, though with where he's at now that streak of constant appearance should probably end. The FBI and others listening to the full wiretaps on Chuck are some straight up dummies though, that conversation they have full on admits that they know about the wiretap, and that seems like the kind of thing you need to clue Connerty in on as the guy running point on the case. Like hey by the way, all the wiretap evidence we have to this point is probably worthless or at least highly suspect since they knew they were being recorded. It works in goofy Billions logic, but it is some wild stuff. Solid character developments too, I wouldn't say it was too predictable for me because I definitely didn't expect Axe wanting Taylor working for him, though I should have with how much he's loved having people under this thumb. I don't mind them teasing some sexual tension here and there, though I'm also in the camp that I don't want to see Wendy and Axe together. But man, at the same time with what a nuke that would be to really set off Chuck and Axe against each other I feel like it's going to happen eventually, or we'll find out they hooked up before she married Chuck or something. That simile showcase is really something else too, what a fun and goofy show this is. EugeneJ posted:Taylor telling their girlfriend about the trojan horse is going to be a fatal mistake - Wendy's going to sniff that poo poo out Yeah probably, I can't give Taylor quite enough chessmaster credentials to say that they're doing that purposefully but they might use it to their advantage down the line. Swaying Wendy is really the lynchpin of Chuck and Axe scheming against each other, they might land punches here and there but using Wendy in a plot is a knockout blow, and Axe definitely has the upper hand there right now. i really like Taylor's idea to just set them both up and walk away on top, but it's hard to picture the endgame of the show leaving any major characters standing, I gotta figure Taylor ends up screwed too as part of one last "surprise, this happened behind the scenes" thing, probably done by Axe. Wags is doomed too, way too loyal to Axe, though goddamn am I on board with him turning his back on Axe at a key moment and taking over the firm when Axe gets truly ruined, that'd be a fun twist and really hammer home the ruthlessness that they've shown among the stock brokers. Dollar Bill and Victor have the ruthlessness to step up into a power vacuum too, and Ben Kim is a fun comedy option. That's really more me picturing that the firm must go on, I guess the more realistic thing is that the firm closes up shop when Axe is fined for all the money and his firm's reputation is shattered. Anyway, fun show, fun ranting about it, really liked the finale giving me all the Rhodes scheming I wanted and then some. drat him bugging Connerty with the flag pin was choice too, totally didn't see that coming. Gonna be fun to see what Kate gets up to now that she's calling her own shots more too.
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Jun 10, 2019 14:31
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My take is that Wendy needs to feel needed and loved for who she is and not for her dom services for Chuck that we saw were only a one way street. If we saw anything from Axe this season it’s that he’s v much a psychopath/sociopath - power, perceived loyalty and utility is everything and romance/connection are in about 10th place. The viciousness of the breakup scene attests to that. Axe values Wendy not because he’s attracted to her but because she consistently has made him more powerful by helping him avoid had decisions. Wendy is so beat down right now after the public shaming, her trial, and Chuck being so focused on anything but her that she’s interpreting it as love. That’s why we get Axe looking bewildered and shocked - sure he interprets that he could get it on but it’s never been about attraction or love for him. It’s been about keeping councilors that help him into make decisions that gain him power. $25 million bucks is easy to part with but risking that relationship is a step too far.
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Jun 10, 2019 15:47
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NowonSA posted:I got my Chuck long-term masterminding that I wanted and then some, going back way further than I expected it to. I wonder what Connerty's going to be doing next season, I'd be shocked to see the one character who has been in literally every episode (weirdly somehow Axe, Chuck and Wendy were all missing from at least one episode in there at some point, if I'm remembering my random imdbing correctly) just drop out of the picture, though with where he's at now that streak of constant appearance should probably end. The FBI and others listening to the full wiretaps on Chuck are some straight up dummies though, that conversation they have full on admits that they know about the wiretap, and that seems like the kind of thing you need to clue Connerty in on as the guy running point on the case. Like hey by the way, all the wiretap evidence we have to this point is probably worthless or at least highly suspect since they knew they were being recorded. It works in goofy Billions logic, but it is some wild stuff. He may lose the firm but this show makes it very clear that having that money is enough for him to win and keep on someway in the end. Just like the real world. The people responsible for 2008 are still free and doing more terrible poo poo.
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Jun 10, 2019 17:59
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