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Groovelord Neato posted:compared to the tethered he was living the dream. Lucky Ducky: the film
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May 26, 2019 17:35
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The tethered were creepy and cool, but I didn't really understand what exactly about living in the underground complex made them psychotic monsters. Red's first monologue about the conditions sounded pretty miserable! But finding out that they can just walk out seemed to severely undercut that. It's a lovely lie that you can "just pull your bootstraps" to escape poverty... but two flights of stairs? As a barrier-to-class-mobility metaphor, that's bad. It was definitely a fun movie, and parts worked better than others, but I think it was a mistake to ever show us the complex.
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May 26, 2019 18:47
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moths posted:The tethered were creepy and cool, but I didn't really understand what exactly about living in the underground complex made them psychotic monsters. The larger obstacle was that they did not have souls or individual agency. It was more about their place in society than their actual physical location.
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May 26, 2019 19:32
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The character who gave us that information wasn't a tethered, though. The souls speech is their speculation, and we know from their revolt / uprising that they did have independent agency. The first tethered we see in present day is that bloody-handed man on the beach, and the one in 1986 acted independently as well.
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May 26, 2019 21:02
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moths posted:The character who gave us that information wasn't a tethered, though. The souls speech is their speculation, and we know from their revolt / uprising that they did have independent agency. The uprising is the result of them following someone who technically isn't tethered and was able to briefly wrest control from their duplicate on the surface. Without that leader figure they would've stayed down there forever. And Adelaide was special, as is pointed out repeatedly. Because sometimes the poor do escape their circumstances, but if they do so by turning their back on all the other underprivileged, they become part of the problem.
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May 26, 2019 21:13
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The Untethering is Red’s own personal revenge quest. The Tethered likely wouldn’t be murderous at all if Red wasn’t the ones leading them, and had instructed them all to be murderers. We know this because Adelaide was a Tethered, and upon reaching the surface, her first instinct was to live among people and not kill them. The twist doesn’t turn Red into the good guy of the story - she’s an opportunist convincing the lower classes to start a war. After all, she did start as a member of the upper class.
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May 26, 2019 22:21
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Does this need to be spoilered? well tethered were a failed experiment that might have made more sense if it was more localized. The movie did show they were copying them almost perfectly. They show it at the end cut between the real people on the surface and it cuts back to the tethered copied of the father and his facial expressions isn't just right with the actions of above. I don't really see how the tethered are the underclass or even how the surface people are the upper class.
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May 27, 2019 02:19
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Tenzarin posted:I don't really see how the tethered are the underclass or even how the surface people are the upper class. this is like saying i don't see how get out is about race.
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May 27, 2019 02:29
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Poor individuals aren't mystically tethered to a specific, equivalent rich person. It works better as a metaphor for people's dual nature or their potential for both good and evil maybe?
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May 27, 2019 02:45
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Groovelord Neato posted:this is like saying i don't see how get out is about race. Is it really about race? The do have the scene where they explain that its not racism in how/why they are targeting black people.
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May 27, 2019 03:09
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moths posted:Poor individuals aren't mystically tethered to a specific, equivalent rich person. white people can't put their brains in black people's bodies either.
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May 27, 2019 04:23
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moths posted:I just saw it tonight and it was good except for that twist. I thought the twist was so obviously telegraphed from the beginning that I spent most of the movie holding out for a more interesting twist. Instead, I got a long-winded infodump.
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May 27, 2019 04:42
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Tenzarin posted:Is it really about race? The do have the scene where they explain that its not racism in how/why they are targeting black people. 
Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 10:19 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 27, 2019 06:14
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Groovelord Neato posted:white people can't put their brains in black people's bodies either. White people can (and historically have and do) exploit the everlasting gently caress out of black people, though. Get Out took that existing precedent to its next scifi step to make good commentary. Us... didn't do that. You have literal upper and lower classes that are 1:1 mirrors of each other, except that the lower class is psychologically monstrous, engages in weird improv of their mystically bonded originals, and are incapable of autonomy (except when they aren't.) The real life poor aren't feral killers. Probably something like Hostel did a better job of class commentary, if you want to read it that way. There seems to be a lot to unpack in Us, but I came away feeling like it was disconnected window-dressing. It had powerful images and symbolism, but no consistent underlying message to contextualize them. And if there was, it was too confused by the metaphor.
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May 27, 2019 14:11
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the tethered aren't inherently monstrous - the system made them that way.
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May 27, 2019 15:39
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moths posted:Us... didn't do that. You have literal upper and lower classes that are 1:1 mirrors of each other, except that the lower class is psychologically monstrous, engages in weird improv of their mystically bonded originals, and are incapable of autonomy (except when they aren't.) The real life poor aren't feral killers. We literally saw what happens when a member of the underclass joins the upper class without a leader telling them to start a war. They assimilate and join society just like everyone else. Under no circumstances is the movie arguing that the underclass are inherently violent.
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May 27, 2019 19:05
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And yet most of the hints for that are from her showing feral mannerisms and being quick to violence. It pretty clearly is something inherent from the tethered that doesn't suddenly go away when they join the upper people, though it can also seemingly be trained into an upper person who gets trapped with them for long enough.
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May 27, 2019 19:56
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The "system" was a weird bunker without oversight. Nobody was directing the psychotic behavior, since whoever was running the experiment* had abandoned it. They were influenced by a magical "tether," but only in as much as they pantomimed the surface world. The movie's message then becomes that when left to their own devices, the poor will become feral monsters? Driven only by class envy, they'll murder forever? That seems like a stretch. *assuming it even was an experiment. None of the bunker tethered were capable of speech, so how would that have been communicated? I think it was meant as a large-scale Frankenstein story. Reading class into it presents more problems than it addresses. Plus it encapsulates the narrative of the novel better than any Frankenstein movie to date.
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May 27, 2019 20:30
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Removing class leaves you without a movie
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May 28, 2019 05:04
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Us feels like a movie that has very little faith in the audience’s ability to get the point
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May 28, 2019 05:15
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Pirate Jet posted:We literally saw what happens when a member of the underclass joins the upper class without a leader telling them to start a war. They assimilate and join society just like everyone else. In fact, they've been passive this entire time without that extra bit of influence. Whether or not it was manipulative could get extra discussion, including how selfish (or not?) the motivation was.
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May 28, 2019 06:47
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moths posted:I think it was meant as a large-scale Frankenstein story. Reading class into it presents more problems than it addresses. Plus it encapsulates the narrative of the novel better than any Frankenstein movie to date. Frankenstein is 100% about class and race. Like, the monster is scary because he's poor, strong, and educated. Victor Frankenstein even comments the creature's skin is the wrong colour. The biggest horror Frankenstein faces is the idea of giving Adam an Eve, and this race propagating. The kind of horror Lovecraft would later write about.
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May 28, 2019 07:51
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General Dog posted:Us feels like a movie that has very little faith in the audience’s ability to get the point I mean, given the last page I wouldn't blame it.
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May 28, 2019 08:28
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Tenzarin posted:Is it really about race? The do have the scene where they explain that its not racism in how/why they are targeting black people. i am in awe of this post
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May 28, 2019 11:35
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Chronojam posted:In fact, they've been passive this entire time without that extra bit of influence. Whether or not it was manipulative could get extra discussion, including how selfish (or not?) the motivation was. Right - the ending is absolutely meant to imply, even if you disagree with my reading, that the reason the Tethered all only communicate in screams and grunts is because they’ve just never been taught language, amongst their other odd behaviors. It’s pretty clearly demonstrated that the Tethered would be exactly like those above ground if raised in similar circumstances, they’re not subhuman killing machines.
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May 28, 2019 15:08
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Pirate Jet posted:Right - the ending is absolutely meant to imply, even if you disagree with my reading, that the reason the Tethered all only communicate in screams and grunts is because they’ve just never been taught language, amongst their other odd behaviors. It’s pretty clearly demonstrated that the Tethered would be exactly like those above ground if raised in similar circumstances, they’re not subhuman killing machines. Yes, that is the twist of the movie.
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May 28, 2019 15:11
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colachute posted:Yes, that is the twist of the movie. Thanks for the snark, but you may want to use it on the people these past few pages I was explaining the obvious to.
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May 28, 2019 15:14
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General Dog posted:Us feels like a movie that has very little faith in the audience’s ability to get the point Yeah, based on this thread, it had to.
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May 28, 2019 15:14
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wyoming posted:Frankenstein is 100% about class and race. Tbf that color is translucent which is mad icky
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May 28, 2019 22:29
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It's been decades since I read it, but I feel like the alienation and rage Frankenstein's creation felt had infinitely more to do with his "father's" treatment of him than any particular class issue. But he was also shown to be capable of sophistication under ideal circumstances, like the tethered. I feel like Us makes much more sense as a similar commentary on human nature and nuture than a "the poor are monsters (but it's not their fault)" read. You have identical people exposed to different conditions, which basically translates to a control group and an experimental group. Plus the film went out of it's way to show us tethered existing across all social classes - it's kind of short-sighted to write it off as "obviously" a rich / poor analogy when there's clearly a lot more going on. E: Us also leans extremely hard on folklore about fairy-folk leaving changeling children, I'm surprised that hasn't come up in anything I've read. moths fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 28, 2019 |
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May 28, 2019 23:04
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General Dog posted:Us feels like a movie that has very little faith in the audience’s ability to get the point Pretty logical step from the last movie. Over correcting seems to be the main movie problem in the last decade. Pirate Jet posted:Right - the ending is absolutely meant to imply, even if you disagree with my reading, that the reason the Tethered all only communicate in screams and grunts is because they’ve just never been taught language, amongst their other odd behaviors. It’s pretty clearly demonstrated that the Tethered would be exactly like those above ground if raised in similar circumstances, they’re not subhuman killing machines. I'm guessing this is why they changed red voice from the trailer also? I greatly preferred red's voice in the trailer. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 00:01 on May 29, 2019 |
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May 28, 2019 23:59
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I know authorial intent doesn’t matter much but Peele explicitly said it’s about class.
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May 29, 2019 16:06
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Count Chocula posted:I know authorial intent doesn’t matter much but Peele explicitly said it’s about class.  Jesus Christ. This is the opposite of what Peele has said over and over again. You think the racial elements are what, an accident? You and Tenzarin are god drat morons, spend a minute googling Peele interviews about the film.
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May 30, 2019 03:26
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uhh, can you post those interviews then?
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May 30, 2019 07:49
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Race and class are pretty closely intertwined in America. Also, it can be about two things.
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May 30, 2019 07:51
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I was really only talking about that one scene with the tv when he was strapped in the chair. I went back and watched that scene again and only the guy getting his brain transplanted might not have been racist. The son was most likely super racist. Sorry my bad! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ5r6yWxb4g&t=158s Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 07:56 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 07:54
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FactsAreUseless posted:
I believe Chocula was referring to Us being about class, not Get Out. That being said, for those who believe Us isn’t about class, Peele pretty clearly disagrees. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-jordan-peele-us-ending-spoilers-20190325-story.html quote:“We don’t generally acknowledge, and we tend to neglect, the fact that people have to and have had to suffer in order for us to have the privileges we have,” said Peele. Tenzarin posted:I was really only talking about that one scene with the tv when he was strapped in the chair. I went back and watched that scene again and only the guy getting his brain transplanted might not have been racist. The son was most likely super racist. Sorry my bad! The photographer who bought Chris’s body is already racist by virtue of participating in a system that fetishizes blackness to the point of rendering it a commodity. Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 08:24 on May 30, 2019 |
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May 30, 2019 08:21
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Pirate Jet posted:That being said, for those who believe Us isn’t about class, Peele pretty clearly disagrees. https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-jordan-peele-us-ending-spoilers-20190325-story.html Thanks for that link. Yeah it looks like he put a lot of issues into the tethered, haves vs have-nots being one but also: “The realization that our villains in this are a cult, are fanatics, and violent fanatics who are on a day to day level engaged in sort of unimaginably crazy-seeming behavior was about the realization that you could say the same about the other world — about us,” said Peele. “That we as Americans, as the United States, we are fanatics as well, and we are violent.” He also referred to it as a monster movie with relatable monsters, so hopefully the Tethered went a direct stand-in for the American poor or sweatshop laborers. They make thematic sense when representing a broad spectrum of common, unexamined American ills - both standing in as the perpetrators and victims of them. Class, sure, but also xenophobia, entitlement, fanaticism, bigotry, and violence. The "We're Americans" line makes sense in this context. If you single out class as the Tethered's defining characteristic, the movie becomes a cautionary tale, warning the relatable bourgeoisie about the dangerously psychotic proletariat - and I don't think that was remotely Peele's intention.
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May 30, 2019 12:34
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Tenzarin posted:I was really only talking about that one scene with the tv when he was strapped in the chair. I went back and watched that scene again and only the guy getting his brain transplanted might not have been racist. The son was most likely super racist. Sorry my bad! but he is. he thinks that chris's "eye" for photography is some physical thing unmoored from chris's intellect or ability.
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May 30, 2019 16:51
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Groovelord Neato posted:but he is. he thinks that chris's "eye" for photography is some physical thing unmoored from chris's intellect or ability. I took it more as "Chris is an established photographer" and the guy is an Art Critic(?) for photography. So he could easily take over Chris's life and hope to be a successful photographer and blend right in. It's also a commentary on critics being jealous of the artists they criticize / critics are failed artists.
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May 30, 2019 16:54
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