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That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Cross posting from the Irrationally Irritating Movie Moments thread:

Saw Us.

The movie is legit creepy and scary and I loved the slasher parts, but the Twilight Zone style reveal is a bit too much and took me out of it (I loved the same kind of reveal in Get Out, I guess scale matters). Also the big plot twist (Red's identity) feels very "cheaty" (I guess the idea is that, after a while having swapped places, Adelaide's and Red's souls also get swapped? But only for specific parts?) and also the most predictable twist ever in a movie about doubles.

Also I think the movie has committed a cardinal sin in the horror genre (that usually affects zombie flicks): give non-supernatural antagonists some kind of invulnerability when not dealing with the main cast.
This is even more aggravating after the big reveal of the doubles identity, especially so since this is a movie with a clear message about the current U.S. reality. No one has a gun? For all the scare factor and the element of surprise, the attackers are still imperfect copies of the original (clearly seen not having full body control and mental acuity) and are armed with scissors.

There is not a single other "non-double" person that survived the night, around the main cast?

This is ofc just talking about the upper layer of the movie, without considering the metaphor. But I think it's important for a movie to have the substrate and the outer layer mesh well together, and I think that the individual parts of Us are better than the sum of them.

That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Mar 23, 2019

# ¿ Mar 23, 2019 07:23

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 06:12

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

LesterGroans posted:

What do you mean by this?

Similar to what the other poster mentioned.

When I say it feels "cheaty", it is cause there are some weird interactions that don't make too much sense after the swap. Red says something about the clones not being able to be "full fledged" people cause their "soul" is shared between two bodies. But her double is able to grow into Adelaide and become a normal person after some therapy, while Red regresses into a state similar to the one of the doubles, even if she is still brighter than them. And it can't just be "cultural" (although there is definitely some symbolism related to it), since otherwise you'd think whoever went to the trouble of cloning every American on the planet would have had some therapy sessions going for the clones in order to use them for their original scope.

And if Red had still access to her mental faculty, why has she not escaped so far? There are no guardians, and the way out is literally "go up through Trump's escalator".

Unrelated to this, the clones imagery gives out a bit of a mixed feeling to me. They ARE literal CHUDs coming out from under the earth wearing maga colors, secret americans living almost among us till they are ready to come out and build a wall...but in their underground tunnels, they look and behave like the poors and the wretched of society: homeless, drug addicts, incapable of controlling their spasms and unable to have a clear mind.

This is...weird? There are people that turned into MAGA out of spite for the idea of the Government/World/Cities abandoning them, but they are not overlapping with the homeless/desperate that live in the cities. The way the clones are depicted, it looks like a mix of both.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2019 09:53

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Conrad_Birdie posted:

Gun talk:

I thought it was clearly a conscious choice, and honestly kinda refreshing, to make a horror movie without a single gun in it. In fact, the only �gun� used and referenced in the movie ends up immediately making things worse

Again, the message is clear and I can stand for it. But the message should mesh well with the other parts of the movie.

The main family and their weird "liberal but actually terrible" friends not having a gun? I can definitely buy it. But there is not a single shot heard in a countryside town full of people - with enough people, in fact, for their clones to be able to form a wall that stretches over the horizon. If the message of the movie is "this is America", the lack of guns is even more implausible. Compare this with every "similar" horror movie where the local people is the enemy like, let's say, The Crazies - where you have roving gun-toting band of "us" shooting everything that moves.

To be honest, I agree that not having guns around builds tension...but, while it works on the small scale, it's a cheap way to do so when you go to the wider scenario. It's like people getting lost without being able to use their mobile/smart phones to call for help.

In general, I think the movie loses a lot when it moves from intimate to less intimate.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2019 10:04

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

CelticPredator posted:

Chud for trump/alt-right is a SA term I believe.

I meant they are literal CHUDs in the original way. They live underground and are "monstrous" humans. There is even a CHUD tape in prominent display at the start of the movie.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2019 10:05

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Groovelord Neato posted:

i'm surprised people weren't aware of that going in i thought it was obvious from the trailer that it would be multiple families at the least.

I'm sure a lot of people avoided the trailers for this (I did by pure chance for Get Out and the movie was so much better for it; I did for this too).

# ¿ Mar 23, 2019 21:27

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Tired Moritz posted:

I dont know how people think it doesnt make sense. Like the premise is pretty simple. underground clones gonna do some stabbing and they have a spiritual connection with their partner.

As someone else has mentioned it doesn't make sense for Red (the "real" 6 year old) to stay downstairs for 30 years. There are no guards, she knows the way out and even if she didn't, the exit is literally up the golden escalator a few steps from her. The story only works if Red is trapped and finally finds a way to escape. She is handcuffed when she first wakes up, but her wrists are not marked in any way to indicate she has been chained for 30 years - and this is the kind of movie that would definitely pay attention to a detail of that sort.

Also when she's talking with her husband abound not going to the beach...the scene works in the context of "she has been traumatized by something unexplained as a child, but as an adult she powers through"; it stops working when the stakes are raised to "she'd be 50 feet away from the secret lair she's imprisoned her double in".

Why has she even agreed to go and spend the vacation at her "parents" place, since it's so close to that beach? Her husband seems like a very sweet and kind man, she could have made up a ton of "this place reminds me of bad memories" stories and she would have not pressed her into going. And it's not even the first time they've been there. People are not always rational of course but...it kinda still feels like cheating.
EDIT: it's at the "horror movie convenience level" of "let's split up".

That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Mar 24, 2019

# ¿ Mar 24, 2019 10:12

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

LesterGroans posted:

I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that the Adelaide who's above ground has basically suppressed her memories of being a clone.

Yeah I think that's the only way the movie works a little. Even if, again, it's a bit convenient. There are plenty of scenes where the story is already stretched thin (like Adelaide having her son and daughter so close to the place of her trauma - and even losing track of her son - is "convenient horror trope"; her leaving them loose so close to the place where she knows they could be kidnapped by their clones is stretching things even thinner).

Again, people are not always 100% rational - and imperfect clones maybe even more - but there's a lot of stuff that goes from "This is a bit weird, but I can see it happening" to "how the hell did this happen" territory if you know who Adelaide really is.

A good reveal should have all the pieces of the puzzle clicking in place when it's done; this one raises quite a few alarm bells.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2019 10:35

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

Are there any hints in the movie about how Pluto, Jason's double, got his burns or why he loves fire? Is it just one of those "Cause it's spooky" things or did I miss something?

Jason's "magic trick" is identical to the ignition mechanism of a gas cigarette lighter. Pluto didn't have that and was playing with matches instead, so he must have set something on fire - maybe a previous mask, closer to Jason's one, given the location of his wounds? They are on the bottom half of his face cause the match must have ignited the bottom part of the mask and burned him before he was able to remove it.

By the way, Pluto's mask is a fireproof one, similar to the ones racing drivers/pit stop crew/firefighters would wear.

That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Mar 25, 2019

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 10:23

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

davidspackage posted:

they don't explain why all the doppelgangers dress in red, wear one glove

Red is trying to be scary, and MJ Thriller gave her nightmares the last time she was above the ground, so it has to be scary for everyone, in her mind.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 12:40

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Honest Thief posted:

It's one of the dudes Red first saw as a kid, the sign holder. The Hands Across America is as she says a statement a show of power.

He's also dressed in the jacket the "original" sign holder was wearing (on top of his red jumpsuit? Can't remember). The original being the dude on the stretcher and covered in stab wounds they run into when they first get into town.

I would argue that the scene is another red herring to let us think there is something supernatural going on - since Jason seems to be the only one to notice the clone, and the clone himself disappears somewhere - but everyone looking away from a blood covered, dirty homeless man on a beach is on point with the message of the movie, so eh.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 17:07

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

I've started considering the option that Red may have just made up a ton of stuff about the underground lair to explain it to herself. There are no other clones able to communicate and the "project" has been abandoned for a loong time...she would have had learned the story of the place from contextual clues (unless the doctors running the place have literally left notes on their research for everyone to find); the whole deal would make more sense (at least from a superficial story POV) if her explanation at the end was literally "magic shadow world, lol", although the Government not being involved would blunt a lot of the message of the movie.

The underground lair being some kind of supernatural thing, with Red rationalizing it as a Government abandoned project would go a long way to explain a lot of inconsistencies.

That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Mar 25, 2019

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 17:18

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

They are birds of a ~~feather~~ fetter with their original :iiam:

# ¿ Mar 25, 2019 17:36

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

Also Red is clearly tormenting Adelaide; and one of the tortures she undergoes is being kept in constant fear of her identity being revealed.

Of course most of the story only works if Adelaide is unaware of being a clone at that time but Red has probably no means to know that, if that's the case.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2019 00:20

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

I've just realized how much I would have loved a Peele re-adaptation of Coraline of all things.

# ¿ Mar 26, 2019 11:49

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

davidspackage posted:

I don't have a particular justification for it, but I really like the notion that, like most conspiracy theories, it simply doesn't hold up to the light of day. It's outlandish and full of holes, but clearly some of it is true, because we're seeing it.

I also like this mixed approach as it allows the message to still be valid while having a less rough experience with the surface level story. I think the problem is mostly with the way standard Hollywood movies are structured, AKA "If a character says something it must be true cause they are mouthpieces for the plot exposition" and "You have to include an explanation, otherwise the general public will be confused". Doubly so for genres like sci-fi, horror and action, where the general explanation for something unexplained or raising questions is "it's just a dumb movie, don't think too hard about it".

This is not the case with Peele, of course. But you mix all these "horror expectations" together and suddenly Red's monologue is the author explaining the story for the general audience. And it doesn't make sense because horror movie have ton of plot holes.

But of course it makes even more sense for Red not to know, to have build a story for herself - and that's a platform to deliver the movie theme, cause she's a person of both "worlds" - the surface and the underground; the wealthy and the outcasts of our society.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2019 10:17