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I had assumed you would need to do a mix of import and production for some time, but it is more that I can barely set up a semi-functional gravel factory with 10 million starting cash so it seems pretty useless to bother with until a later point. I am going to put it down and see if I can try it again when I find it less frustrating or if/when they do anything to make it more playable.
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Jan 2, 2021 21:45
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Much of the early game is a trap that would be entirely avoided by making a toggle between build entirely by foreign manpower and resources, build partially with foeiregn manpower but supplied resources, or build partially with supplied manpower but foreign resources. As it is you will save yourself untold foreign construction hours (e. and transport fees! basically magic free money if you have fuel turned off) if you spend your cash on the following as close as you can to a border (on an empty map presumably): Construction material supply 1x Aggregate Loading connected to: 1x Small aggregate storage. Import 1 tick ofgravel 1x asphalt plant, import 1 tick of gravel and 1 tick of bitumen 1x concrete plant, import 1 tick of gravel and 1 tick of cement 1x Small open storage, import 1 tick steel, bricks, prefab, boards 1x warehouse, import 1 tick mechanical and 1 tick electric components 1x construction office, assign to all above Workers 1x Bus Station 1x Apartment From here you can turn off build by rubles forever if you are patient. At lower difficulty you can use it to build asphalt roads which normally take months but you drastically reduce your spend by using local manpower and the game is not at all clear that you can do that while still importing goods. Then you can split your attention between a power plant or a oil supply chain as something that will give you some early exports while still being integrated to your construction supply chain. zedprime fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 2, 2021 |
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Jan 2, 2021 21:49
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Do tourist attractions do anything for your own citizens? I don't really want to get too into tourism but they seem like cool looking buildings and it would be nice to give my citizens more entertainment options than just drinking and movies.
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Jan 3, 2021 02:42
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Pornographic Memory posted:Do tourist attractions do anything for your own citizens? I don't really want to get too into tourism but they seem like cool looking buildings and it would be nice to give my citizens more entertainment options than just drinking and movies. I have no tourists and they definitely visit it but I have no idea what it grants them. Maybe just a happiness boost? I have a sight tower (mod - a church tower that’s a “cathedral tour”) and it gets visited, but it doesn’t seem to improve any citizens cultural enjoyment. It does “attraction” but citizens aren’t measured on that so who knows? I like to add them anyway as flavor/decor, but I dunno if it’s actually helping.
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Jan 3, 2021 03:48
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This game reminds me of a submarine game I played once where you were supposed to do everything. You plot the course, turn the knob to make the boat go up or down, you aim the torpedoes, you listen to sonar contacts and plot them on the chart paper... It didn't so much simulate being a submarine captain as it simulated doing the work of twenty people. It took forever to do anything. This game is like that.
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Jan 3, 2021 09:03
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Alright you guys, I've taken your advice to heart, I've stopped worrying about the needs of my so called workers, and started treating them like resources. Inkershta is a brand new community, established in the foothills just off the Soviet bordertown of Padonin. Unfortunately for the good future citizens of Inkershta, this is the first city to be run by Adjunct Prefect Grevlek, but hey, gotta start somewhere! I drew a gravel road off the main highway from Padonin to Leszcie into the western side of the hills. Finding abundant coal, we quickly charted out a gravel mine, a coal mine, and the requisite processing of such. We also wanted to build a powerplant, to coal power back to Padonin. We would have some extraction in the hills and forests, and we'd build a small feeder community to house the workers about a kilometer to the south.  Oh boy, was mining much more complicated than I thought. We mine raw stone at site A, ship it down to the Gravel Plant at site B, and store the gravel in a giant pit at site C. We have an aggregate unloader for trucks at Site D, which is also hooked up to the coal main. Coal is mined at site 1, shipped along a precariously perched conveyor at site 2, and it is processed at the Coal Plant at site 3. Processed coal is stored at site 4, where it will either end up as fuel for the power plant at site 5, or it is shipped for whatever purpose at site D.  The town center has not developed much. There are a handful of flats, a single football pitch, and of course all of the necessities of life: a large bus platform at site A, a small mall ( the People's Distribution Center ) at site B, some schools and kindergartens at the C sites, and of course a pub for knocking one back at the end of a hard day at site D.  Inkershta at night!  It isn't much, but this stretch of gravel road is the first construction project sourced entirely from the hardworking people of Inkershta. Citizens look forward to laying many thousands more kilometers of road in the future, and maybe even erecting a building or two.  Inkershta continues to grow. We've added some cement and concrete works at site B, and some additional housing to support a lumber industry at site E. We will continue to work out the byzantine patterns required to link up our construction industries, and start to expand the city center to the west. I'm playing on the pre-populated map, on 'medium' difficulty settings, except for 'easy' starting cash. I don't think this will be my 1,000 hour super save, but I am enjoying the process of learning. I still need to figure out how to get my trucks/busses not to bunch up, I have a few busses full of workers that never get where they are going. Similarly, I have too many trucks sending gravel to the concrete plants, despite the fact that concrete is full! I hope the Distribution Center can actually help with some of this micro.
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Jan 3, 2021 09:30
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Distro center will certainly help for that. I have almost exclusively replaced truck routes (other than quarry ones) with distro centers, since generally they’re performing exactly the same function as a static route but with added logic that idles as necessary and can easily branch out to additional destinations. Highly recommend you grab the roadside conveyor mods from the workshop! You’ve definitely got a good start but let me tell you that you’ll come to hate laying out conveyor engines using only the vanilla options. Nice start! It seems like you’re figuring out the bits you need to understand early on. My advice is play your save until you’re sure you want to restart, but then spend a little time experimenting. It’s so much easier to try an idea that ends up failing when you know that you’re going to restart anyway.
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Jan 3, 2021 09:49
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Went to bed, came back to it less frustrated, set up a new map and tried making an import based construction compound first thing, along with an import distillery to stabilize funding. I'm starting to see the appeal a little, also I downloaded some useful things off the workshop including better conveyor towers and the big kindergarten which seems like it might help. It is more enjoyable when you're actually using the resource based construction, feels less like you're just plopping poo poo down wherever. E: It's weird that there doesn't seem to be a way to use the parallel construction snap with roads, only railways. Anime Store Adventure posted:I have no tourists and they definitely visit it but I have no idea what it grants them. Maybe just a happiness boost? I have a sight tower (mod - a church tower that’s a “cathedral tour”) and it gets visited, but it doesn’t seem to improve any citizens cultural enjoyment. It does “attraction” but citizens aren’t measured on that so who knows? RE: this, I think an indoor pool seems to satisfy sport desire, so useful in winter when your footy pitch is frozen. I would assume perhaps the cafe doubles as a bar? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 12:09
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OwlFancier posted:E: It's weird that there doesn't seem to be a way to use the parallel construction snap with roads, only railways. It makes sense for rails, since double tracking is the way to handle two way traffic in spots that need the throughput, but roads already handle two-way traffic. Outside of making things thematically nice, or adding a side-road for traffic when upgrading a road, I'm not sure where you'd really use it. WRT building, something I just recently learned is that you can click the "pause construction" button on the building, which will cancel both local construction yard assignment AND auto-build foreign construction. This is useful when you accidentally plop something with "build using rubles / dollars" on and you didn't mean to, instead of destroying and re-placing the building you can just toggle this to make it locally constructed again. I suspect you can fiddle with this to allow for local materials and foreign labor in multi-stage construction, but that feels a little too fiddly for my tastes. One thing I will mention, I am absolutely happy to slam the auto-build button for tiny slivers of roadway, since the game doesn't have a particularly good way to say "turn all of these concurrent road segments into one long construction project" and it's obnoxious to have 10m between 200m and 70m of road need to wait for gravel, then a bulldozer, then asphalt, then paver, etc etc etc when it should have just been on the tail end of the last one. I cannot get over how absolutely gorgeous your cities are. I've started doing the planned city thing, and they look rather nice compared to my former method of "welp, guess I'll just plop this one too"
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Jan 3, 2021 19:18
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Some projects I can manage to do the 'long' road first, pave it, and then go back and branch the small roads off of it so the main/longer road doesn't require 50 different pieces, but yes, of all things in the game that I jam autobuild its most frequently the short road between a building entry and nearby road.
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Jan 3, 2021 19:24
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Volmarias posted:It makes sense for rails, since double tracking is the way to handle two way traffic in spots that need the throughput, but roads already handle two-way traffic. Outside of making things thematically nice, or adding a side-road for traffic when upgrading a road, I'm not sure where you'd really use it.
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Jan 3, 2021 19:27
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zedprime posted:Combine these two concepts for the correct way to build long roads: string mud roads to each intersection so you can build the 10m, 200m, and 70m roads parallelly. Leave service mud roads either as the backroad for your slow vehicles or clear them later if you need to grid out/build on the new road. Yes, to add to this definitely don't sleep on mud roads. They're free and instant and you can help along a lot of construction 'chokepoints' by throwing a few of these in. They can be a useful detour if you need to pave a main road, or do something like replace a section of road with a bridge to go over railroad.
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Jan 3, 2021 19:35
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I've noticed that slow vehicles tend to remove themselves to dirt roads if they're parallel to the better roads too, which can help you de-congest roads that you see get frequently slowed down by slow work vehicles like tractors and excavators or those 25t dump trucks.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:25
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zedprime posted:Combine these two concepts for the correct way to build long roads: string mud roads to each intersection so you can build the 10m, 200m, and 70m roads parallelly. Leave service mud roads either as the backroad for your slow vehicles or clear them later if you need to grid out/build on the new road. I absolutely do this, but if I'm upgrading existing roads in an urban areas, it's dramatically faster to just destroy the existing road and its connections, since the leveling / paving / smoothing equipment all decides to just go right back to the construction yard instead of moving 5 meters over and waiting a few seconds. Given how usually those connections are actually necessary, my choices are "upgrade the city piecemeal so that nothing gets blocked", "gently caress all of the everything for a few months", or "press the button to spend 200 rubles X 8 times to get the worst of it over." I know which choice I make every time. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 21:26
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Apparently seven people didn't go to work in the heating plant and so several thousand people froze to death and now nobody lives in my country... Game is really trying to make me hate it.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:29
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Does anyone have a guide on how to use the distribution centers? Say I want to help feed a gravel>concrete>cement industry, and a coal industry. Just fill it with the aggregate shipping vehicles, indicate loading at the quarry and mine, and drop-off at the various plants and the game will sort it out?
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Jan 3, 2021 21:41
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OwlFancier posted:Apparently seven people didn't go to work in the heating plant and so several thousand people froze to death and now nobody lives in my country... Heat is specifically the worst thing (and lack of electricity also shuts down heating plants) and I recommend playing without that until you’re comfortable with it. I still have to keep an eye on things because you never know when you’ll do something like woops, I was building a rail line across the road the buses need to use for the heat plant in mid January and now everyone’s dead. I recommend putting it sort of close to your town. You can probably just barely put it in range of an apartment or two and still avoid most of the pollution it generates, which avoids the commute issue entirely. You may also find out the game more or less wants you to do this, as even large plants can’t support more than a decently large town and they have fairly punishing drop offs of temp with each pump station and raw distance.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:46
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I reloaded and put one in the middle of town for security. gently caress em, they can breathe coal if they're too dumb to turn the goddamn heating on.Grevlek posted:Does anyone have a guide on how to use the distribution centers? Say I want to help feed a gravel>concrete>cement industry, and a coal industry. Just fill it with the aggregate shipping vehicles, indicate loading at the quarry and mine, and drop-off at the various plants and the game will sort it out? Basically yeah as best I can tell, you assign it to all the buildings you want it to cover and then set up general ideas of what you want to load and unload to what level and it sorts the trucks out by itself. It's actually one of the nicer features and it's weird, IMO, that there is no equivalent for workers. It's very good for last mile logistics where you need to fill up a whole bunch of tiny shops in a city, pulling from a main depot connected via rail or whatever, but the truck throughput capacity renders it suboptimal for large scale transfer. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 21:50
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Heat is like an endboss feature, you're real brave trying to deal with it first game.Volmarias posted:I absolutely do this, but if I'm upgrading existing roads in an urban areas, it's dramatically faster to just destroy the existing road and its connections, since the leveling / paving / smoothing equipment all decides to just go right back to the construction yard instead of moving 5 meters over and waiting a few seconds. Given how usually those connections are actually necessary, my choices are "upgrade the city piecemeal so that nothing gets blocked", "gently caress all of the everything for a few months", or "press the button to spend 200 rubles X 8 times to get the worst of it over." The alternative is being a real deal civic planner and micromanaging the road upgrades and you know what, I'll do that if I have the mental capacity in which case you build a construction yard (spam construction yards once you have domestic materials. spam them everywhere) at the start or end of the stretch/blocks that need upgraded to help manage roadworks equipment travel time and plan out the build to get around most of the disruption by effective detours through phasing the project out. I love that the game is about using real world civic and manufacturing project management but its also optional if you have enough cash flow so you can just run the projects you're personally interested in. Which for me changes all the time.
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Jan 3, 2021 21:56
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Apparently tourists also make hella cash, somehow. Gonna build more hotels.
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Jan 3, 2021 22:02
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zedprime posted:Heat is like an endboss feature, you're real brave trying to deal with it first game. Yeah I'm on my third or fourth game now and only just turning on heat. One solution I've found for this kind of lynchpin facility (previously power) is microbuses. If you just need SOMEBODY, anybody at all, to be there to run things, have a couple micro buses that stop directly at the facility to drop off workers. Only transporting like 8 workers seems uselessly low but it's enough to keep one building working, and if you have asphalt their 90kph top speed lets them make trips quickly, which helps a lot to smooth out the boom and bust of regular buses.
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Jan 3, 2021 23:19
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Oh can you drop people directly at factories? Will they also disperse to other facilities so you don't need to fit a bus stop in at the factory complex? Also, if I set a platform to distribute workers say, 90%/10% to two factories, if the 90% factory is fully staffed, will the remainder go to the 10% factory? Or will they just disappear/not get on the bus?
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Jan 4, 2021 00:06
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OwlFancier posted:Oh can you drop people directly at factories? Will they also disperse to other facilities so you don't need to fit a bus stop in at the factory complex? Yes, no, yes, no
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Jan 4, 2021 00:26
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In that case I feel like the distribution percentages really should be like... numerical priorities? Like staff this building first, this one second, etc.
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Jan 4, 2021 00:31
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OwlFancier posted:In that case I feel like the distribution percentages really should be like... numerical priorities? Like staff this building first, this one second, etc. I believe it's something like a weighted random selection. Every time a worker shows up they have a 90% chance to decide on the 90% place. But if the 90% place is full the percentage is redistributed among the rest. Not sure if it's actually random but that's roughly how it seems to behave
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Jan 4, 2021 00:40
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If I have trucks already running routes, can I reassign them to a distribution center without purchasing new ones
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Jan 4, 2021 00:45
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Grevlek posted:If I have trucks already running routes, can I reassign them to a distribution center without purchasing new ones If you select the vehicle there is a house button at the top, which allows you to set the building it works at, I would think that would work.
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Jan 4, 2021 00:50
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Grevlek posted:If I have trucks already running routes, can I reassign them to a distribution center without purchasing new ones Yes, click the "go to depot" button and select the distribution center as their destination.
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Jan 4, 2021 01:11
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I don't think I shared it here yet, but I made a mod collection for this game. I just updated it with everything I'm currently using, and I even tried to take the time to arrange all of them logically, but then steam just cancelled my ordering, whelp. Find it here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2329453474 There's notes in the collection, but feel free to ask if you eye something you aren't sure if you want any specific ones in your game or if you're using something I haven't included that you think goons should know about. Also I say it everywhere but don't miss the linked robs074 collections, they're one of the major reasons my cities look good. The only vehicles mods I've added are a few Polish themed ones for my current save - I haven't felt the need to explore vehicle options but there might be others out there. Maps I haven't explored much either, at least since the patch (that added bauxite.)
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Jan 4, 2021 08:11
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Any nice premade maps people can suggest on the steam workshop?
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Jan 4, 2021 09:04
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You guys do know you can take out loans right?
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Jan 4, 2021 10:16
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Loans? Deficit Spending? Sounds like capitalism....
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Jan 4, 2021 10:20
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Loans? Deficit Spending? A capitalist would sell you the noose with which he is to be hanged. So it stands to reason a capitalist would lend you money to build communism.
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Jan 4, 2021 10:50
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They literally will which is the funny bit  E: Can pedestrians path through buildings to reach other buildings? Or do you have to have paths going direct to every building you want? I know construction equipment needs a clear path but can people walk through buildings? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 11:05
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Pornographic Memory posted:Yeah I'm on my third or fourth game now and only just turning on heat. One solution I've found for this kind of lynchpin facility (previously power) is microbuses. If you just need SOMEBODY, anybody at all, to be there to run things, have a couple micro buses that stop directly at the facility to drop off workers. Only transporting like 8 workers seems uselessly low but it's enough to keep one building working, and if you have asphalt their 90kph top speed lets them make trips quickly, which helps a lot to smooth out the boom and bust of regular buses. Until father winter comes and litters snow across your roads! Micro busses are good but you definitely want to try to get an apartment building within walking distance of your critical facilities (power, heat) since pedestrians wear skis and skates and walk as fast as normal.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:41
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That is just normal soviet leg and feet technology.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:17
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Volmarias posted:Until father winter comes and litters snow across your roads! Micro busses are good but you definitely want to try to get an apartment building within walking distance of your critical facilities (power, heat) since pedestrians wear skis and skates and walk as fast as normal. But those workers will die of pollution. And you'll need to plop a kindergarten and school and all that too. Maybe this is a good use case for cable cars though?
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Jan 4, 2021 18:54
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VostokProgram posted:But those workers will die of pollution. And you'll need to plop a kindergarten and school and all that too. Maybe this is a good use case for cable cars though? Workers dying/starting a dead end people consuming settlement is technically a manageable problem if you grow your citizens elsewhere and move them in every once in a while.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:11
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VostokProgram posted:But those workers will die of pollution. And you'll need to plop a kindergarten and school and all that too. Maybe this is a good use case for cable cars though? Those workers will have a reduced lifespan, not outright die! I think Generally I try to put my heating plant just barely in range of a single apartment (or two) on the very edge of town and it keeps the pollution at bay
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Jan 4, 2021 19:14
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Frequent small deliveries is exactly what cable cars provide though?
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Jan 4, 2021 19:38
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