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Josef bugman posted:I'm very sorry Ronya. I am just somewhat cross. When it comes to analysing certain situations I think you do very well but in certain instances, especially when it comes to being able to explain the situation in a way that makes people feel they can help it seems as if you go back to talking in wider terms. No dude f'real you nailed it, particularly with the "sidestep a direct question and talk about what you want to talk about" thing which is a textbook PPE grad thing and part of the reason why our politicians are so awful. Like PPE just teaches you to be a slippery weasel. E: Weasel snipe. 
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Apr 30, 2019 22:41
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Josef bugman posted:I'm very sorry Ronya. I am just somewhat cross. When it comes to analysing certain situations I think you do very well but in certain instances, especially when it comes to being able to explain the situation in a way that makes people feel they can help it seems as if you go back to talking in wider terms. the peril of posting on SA is that you might get absolutely dunked on from orbit if someone reckons you're being a plonker. ronya knew the risks, make no offers to rescind. (fwiw I usually find ronya's posts quite worthwhile but  )
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Apr 30, 2019 22:41
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I must have misunderstood the NEC's decision, I thought they were backing a confirmatory referendum. Why are FBPEs going nuts? Because they, like I was on this subject for a while, are loving idiots.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:41
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Ms Adequate posted:the peril of posting on SA is that you might get absolutely dunked on from orbit if someone reckons you're being a plonker. ronya knew the risks, make no offers to rescind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGV0CLcN9JE&t=39s
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Apr 30, 2019 22:42
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Can we quote that bugman post in the new OP? Much like the railways after a Corbyn victory, he just got loving owned.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:43
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Ms Adequate posted:(fwiw I usually find ronya's posts quite worthwhile but How can you tell?
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Apr 30, 2019 22:43
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Guavanaut posted:Heart of Darkness too, great story, anti-imperialist in message, but throws around a lot of epithets and very dated descriptions. Because of being written in 1899. Cheers for the recommendation, I picked up a copy on amazon for £2.50  Looking forward to reading it.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:44
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Guavanaut posted:Shocked that the 19th century European was antisemitic. I have 19th century poetry books that have nothing to do with race or religion that are casually antisemitic. It's bad, but it's what it is, and needs reading in context. Same as most of them are a bit bad on women and LGBT people. Yes but Corbyn didn't have to write the forward. I'm not sure how we're all ok giving him a pass on this one. It's not the end of the world but it is another example of Corbyn being, at best, oblivious.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:44
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Bundy posted:Because they, like I was on this subject for a while, are loving idiots. Iirc if magical unicorns dance out of the mist with exactly the Brexit Labour ask for, then there wouldnt be a referendum?
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Apr 30, 2019 22:44
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Regarde Aduck posted:Yes but Corbyn didn't have to write the forward. I'm not sure how we're all ok giving him a pass on this one. It's not the end of the world but it is another example of Corbyn being, at best, oblivious. Is the text of the forward available? Maybe it mentions the antisemitism of the day as a negative as if to insure himself from criticism during his future career as Labour leader that he absolutely expected eight years later
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Apr 30, 2019 22:47
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Regarde Aduck posted:Yes but Corbyn didn't have to write the forward. I'm not sure how we're all ok giving him a pass on this one. It's not the end of the world but it is another example of Corbyn being, at best, oblivious. I'm pretty sure even Marx was guilty of some antisemitism? It's something you just have to make sure you filter out when it comes to 19th century writers I guess, because otherwise we're faced with writing off Marxism wholesale and that really would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:47
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Regarde Aduck posted:Yes but Corbyn didn't have to write the forward. I'm not sure how we're all ok giving him a pass on this one. It's not the end of the world but it is another example of Corbyn being, at best, oblivious. Yeah agreed. The book might have good ideas and themes but if one of the central ones is 'Rothchilds' then uhh... It's not a great book. Even if everything up to that point on capitalism is correct, it's a stupid conclusion to draw (obviously because of the time) and shouldn't be encouraged. I'm sure there are plenty of other anti-imperialist books he could've written the forword to. Firos posted:I'm pretty sure even Marx was guilty of some antisemitism? Marx was a massive antisemite, despite being jewish. It's not a major theme of Capital though and I'd be weirded out by anybody who wrote the forward to his weird antisemitic ramblings. e I should be clear that I don't know if the antisemitism is a big part of the book Corbz forwarded, but it if is it's not something I'm willing to look past like the mural. All the other antisemitism stories are super bogus. Miftan fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 22:48
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ronya is a character and i like characters. they let people express themselves and bounce off them. plus ronya's alright when ronya posts from the heart, still a magnificent dunk tho no lie
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Apr 30, 2019 22:49
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Rip ronya, dead from brutal K.O. 
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Apr 30, 2019 22:52
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Bugman are you a prehistoric caveman because that was savage.
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Apr 30, 2019 22:59
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Miftan posted:Yeah agreed. The book might have good ideas and themes but if one of the central ones is 'Rothchilds' then uhh... It's not a great book. Even if everything up to that point on capitalism is correct, it's a stupid conclusion to draw (obviously because of the time) and shouldn't be encouraged. I'm sure there are plenty of other anti-imperialist books he could've written the forword to. It's not a big part of Hobson's book. Been a couple of years once I read it so am willing to be proved wrong but that's what I remember. It's one of the key texts for early forms of global history, pretty sure it was on the pre course reading list for my MA. Obviously it has issues but that's cos it was written over a century ago. E: think my copy is in storage otherwise would check for sure
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Apr 30, 2019 23:02
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Miftan posted:Yeah agreed. The book might have good ideas and themes but if one of the central ones is 'Rothchilds' then uhh... It's not a great book. Even if everything up to that point on capitalism is correct, it's a stupid conclusion to draw (obviously because of the time) and shouldn't be encouraged. I'm sure there are plenty of other anti-imperialist books he could've written the forword to. Even Kropotkin comes out with some "imagine a Rothschild" stuff that looks very suspect in retrospect, you'd have to be looking specifically at 19th century anti-imperialist books written by Jewish authors who weren't also making statements about their own perceived ingroup to get that. And then you'd probably get "Corbyn writes forward to Polish Marxist writer who used racist terms for Africans" because none of the articles on this seem in particularly good faith.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:03
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Illuyankas posted:Is the text of the forward available? Maybe it mentions the antisemitism of the day as a negative as if to insure himself from criticism during his future career as Labour leader that he absolutely expected eight years later It's here if anyone's interested http://www.spokesmanbooks.com/Spokesman/PDF/130Corbyn.pdf he doesn't mention the Rothschilds thing, he opens with "J A Hobson wrote his great tome in a different age" but that reads more as a contrast to the modern era, because Corbyn's talking about how the analysis in Imperialism still applies today quote:Hobson’s railing against the commercial interests that fuel the role of and he goes into how imperialism played out in the 20th century, so it's mostly about putting it into context and why he thinks it's worth reading as an investigation and critique of capitalism's drive to generate new markets to exploit, and everything that goes with it He doesn't call out the antisemitic stuff, but I'm assuming it's not exactly a key part of the work? And it's not like people usually make a habit of going "wow people centuries ago sure had some lovely attitudes" every time they talk about academic works or classic literature or anything
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Apr 30, 2019 23:21
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Bugman you're a stellar addition to the thread.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:37
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feedmegin posted:Iirc if magical unicorns dance out of the mist with exactly the Brexit Labour ask for, then there wouldnt be a referendum? Correct. Which will never happen. Corbs isn't an idiot and May is over a barrel. In hilarious irony there's a loving good chance that Ireland is going to save the UK from itself and propel Corbyn into number ten like an exocet missile. The more I think about Corbyn and look at his career, he's probably the most seasoned and capable politician in parliament. A skilled diplomat, cares about the people, actually has principles and doesn't compromise them. But he makes jam so in typical modern fashion the same old attacks are weoponised against him. However, being principled there's no smear, no scandal, no toe sucking stories to throw all over the papers. He learned alongside greats like Benn. The Tories are poo poo scared of him and well they should be. Like, all they've got is "bbbut he hates Jews!" which any idiot with Google and 2 minutes can see is bollocks. NinpoEspiritoSanto fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 30, 2019 |
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Apr 30, 2019 23:39
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man have we had 400 pages outside an election recently?
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Apr 30, 2019 23:56
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https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1123355439784255488 I am glad people with an audience outside this thread are making this point, because I've only ever really seen it here before, and it genuinely fucks me off that the fubpee crowd are so shortsighted. Also Ash is bae.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:58
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Hey all, got a bit of a thought for you here, the Tories, I reckon they're pretty bad. What do yall think?
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Apr 30, 2019 23:59
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CoolCab posted:man have we had 400 pages outside an election recently? There's still 30 seconds or so in the month for an election to be announced. Fingers crossed.
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Apr 30, 2019 23:59
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Trainee PornStar posted:Cheers for the recommendation, I picked up a copy on amazon for £2.50 Heart of Darkness is real good for many, many reasons (also very short!), so you're in for a treat. I imagine your edition will cover some of the problematic elements in its foreword, but in case it doesn't, and given the current topic of conversation about introductions and what they should and should not mention, it's worth drawing your attention to the now standard starting point on Heart of Darkness and racism: Chinua Achebe's "An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad's Heart of Darkness" (10 page pdf)
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May 1, 2019 00:00
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Dabir posted:Hey all, got a bit of a thought for you here, the Tories, I reckon they're pretty bad. What do yall think? big if true
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May 1, 2019 00:05
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Dabir posted:Hey all, got a bit of a thought for you here, the Tories, I reckon they're pretty bad. What do yall think? Yeah they're pretty bad op
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May 1, 2019 00:06
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Dabir posted:Hey all, got a bit of a thought for you here, the Tories, I reckon they're pretty bad. What do yall think? https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?lang=en
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May 1, 2019 00:11
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I must confess I have some mixed feelings as regards the Tory party
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May 1, 2019 00:12
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CoolCab posted:I must confess I have some mixed feelings as regards the Tory party one part loathing, one part disgust
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May 1, 2019 00:14
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Illuyankas posted:one part loathing, one part disgust one part concrete boots, one part very deep lake.
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May 1, 2019 00:16
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Niric posted:Heart of Darkness is real good for many, many reasons (also very short!), so you're in for a treat. I imagine your edition will cover some of the problematic elements in its foreword, but in case it doesn't, and given the current topic of conversation about introductions and what they should and should not mention, it's worth drawing your attention to the now standard starting point on Heart of Darkness and racism: Chinua Achebe's "An Image of Africa: Racism in Conrad's Heart of Darkness" (10 page pdf) New thread is up here, happy May Day.
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May 1, 2019 00:17
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