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R. Guyovich posted:i really enjoyed cloud atlas and the hate has always mystified me. I think that the yellowface is a big part of that hate. I really like the movie though, especially the corny parts:  
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Apr 9, 2019 18:58
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I mean, I think my biggest issue is that nothing they have made in ages seems interesting to me and I can't quite figure out why With the exception of speed racer, which is awesome, this is exactly how I feel. Jupiter Ascending was nice but it missed something that made me really engage with it like Guardians of the Galaxy does pull off. Same with Cloud Atlas, it was ok but a bit dull. I misses some je ne sais quoi.
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Apr 10, 2019 12:44
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I finally saw Speed Racer and it is utterly baffling. Like, it's certainly not a good movie, but it is fascinating in a way I can't quite describe. It almost feels like they wanted to cram even more into the movie, despite it being crazy-long and full of stuff. I hate the praxis of everything being a trilogy, and certainly Speed-loving-Racer doesn't need to be three goddamn films, but it's just so dense I kinda wish it was 3 films. It's also an absolute feast to look at.
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Apr 10, 2019 14:26
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Easy Diff posted:Like, it's certainly not a good movie It's a great movie!
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Apr 10, 2019 15:16
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Easy Diff posted:I finally saw Speed Racer and it is utterly baffling. Like, it's certainly not a good movie, hard disagree
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Apr 10, 2019 17:30
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Whats funny to me now that I think about it is that for all of the unnecessary backstory the matrix sequels added, they never addressed the one idea I would find most interesting. How do they have it so that people live out their entire lives in a very specific epoch without noticing? How do they keep an entire society frozen in 1999 for generations?
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Apr 10, 2019 18:26
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Whats funny to me now that I think about it is that for all of the unnecessary backstory the matrix sequels added, they never addressed the one idea I would find most interesting. How would someone who lives their entire life inside the Matrix be able to tell? From their perspective they were born in a certain time and all the previous "history" of what happened before they were born is all there for them to learn about just like it is for us in real life. Like, what do we have to really prove that history actually took place once all the people who witnessed it are gone? Videos? History books? They have all that stuff in the Matrix too.
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Apr 10, 2019 18:39
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Basebf555 posted:How would someone who lives their entire life inside the Matrix be able to tell? From their perspective they were born in a certain time and all the previous "history" of what happened before they were born is all there for them to learn about just like it is for us in real life. But what I mean is, a person is born in 1999 and dies in 1999 and they never go "weird how nothing ever changed my whole life"
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Apr 10, 2019 18:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:But what I mean is, a person is born in 1999 and dies in 1999 and they never go "weird how nothing ever changed my whole life" Some things change, mostly things stay the same, sounds a lot like reality to me. There have been billions of people who have lived and died during times like that. The technological explosion that took place during the past several generations is more of an outlier. If you're just talking about the year 1999, I think it's fair to assume people living in the Matrix have an ongoing year count that changes at the beginning of each year just like we do.
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Apr 10, 2019 18:46
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Basebf555 posted:If you're just talking about the year 1999, I think it's fair to assume people living in the Matrix have an ongoing year count that changes at the beginning of each year just like we do. One of the lines in the original Matrix is "For you, it is 1999, but in reality, its much closer to *some random year hundreds of years later* The implication is that its been 1999 for generations in the Matrix
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Apr 10, 2019 18:50
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Mel Mudkiper posted:One of the lines in the original Matrix is "For you, it is 1999, but in reality, its much closer to *some random year hundreds of years later* No reason to assume that. The year 1999 was probably chosen because that's when the movie was made but there's nothing to indicate that people aren't aware of the year changing each January as it would normally in the real world. The Architect says that the Matrix has been reset several times(I forget the exact #), so the only part that's unknown is what year it gets reset to when that occurs. For all we know they start each iteration of the Matrix in 1975.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:00
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That doesnt really change the main point of they dont really explain how time works
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Apr 10, 2019 19:15
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Mel Mudkiper posted:That doesnt really change the main point of they dont really explain how time works Ok, so imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff...
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Apr 10, 2019 19:16
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Mel Mudkiper posted:That doesnt really change the main point of they dont really explain how time works If time doesn't move forward as it normally would(outside of a complete reset, which we're told happens very rarely), then the machines would have to be erasing everyone's memory at regular intervals. Maybe that is the case, but there's no indication of that in the movies, as far as I remember.
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Apr 10, 2019 19:22
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Whats funny to me now that I think about it is that for all of the unnecessary backstory the matrix sequels added, they never addressed the one idea I would find most interesting. I’d argue that The Matrix doesn’t represent a “true” 1999 so much a broad pastiche. You have hackers and a white collar corporate skyscraper, but clothing styles and uniforms seem somewhat timeless with a distinct 50’s vibe. Suicide doors on cars are still in. Television or cinema is almost a non-factor. Even Neo’w illicit wares are nondescript minidiscs. Nothing about the “reality” inside The Matrix makes sense. It feels almost frozen in a particular non period.
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Apr 10, 2019 22:10
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Speed Racer is junk
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Apr 10, 2019 22:49
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I still need to see it. I'd say V for Vendetta is their weakest. It's the one where their sincerity comes across as naive.
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Apr 11, 2019 02:00
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V for Vendetta definitely seems like a passion project for them in that I think they were really trying to provide commentary on circa-2005 America (in spite of the British setting) but they ended up taking a lot of the edge off of the original story by turning V into someone fighting for the vague idea of democracy instead of the out and out anarchist he is in the original. It's an oddly restrained choice for them.
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Apr 11, 2019 02:14
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V for Vendetta is kind of weird in that the Wachowskis produced it and wrote the script, but it was directed by James McTiegue. Although there is some debate if it was a Poltergeist Hooper/Spielberg deal.
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Apr 11, 2019 02:47
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Keep in mind 2005-2006 was still well within random strangers approaching to ask why you don't have a US flag sticker on your car territory, I think if V for Vendetta was any less restrained it wouldn't have gotten made. Plus it went in enthusiastically on how Islamophobia is stupid, homophobia is stupid, and how the Catholic Church is a pedophile club so I can't fault it too much. I do think it's their weakest film too though. Jupiter Ascending is, bar none, the best 70s/early 80s anime movie ever made. I love it and as others have mentioned any time I get anyone to give a chance they have a blast. 
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Apr 11, 2019 02:55
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Basebf555 posted:If time doesn't move forward as it normally would(outside of a complete reset, which we're told happens very rarely), then the machines would have to be erasing everyone's memory at regular intervals. Maybe that is the case, but there's no indication of that in the movies, as far as I remember. I agree that it seems like it being 1999 in the first movie is meant to be seen as significant to Neo's journey and the audience's context, but not necessarily indicative of the fact that it's always 1999 in the Matrix. Time is wonky - we see very clearly that Neo experiences time skips in his perception; the setting is a blend of a bunch of otherwise disparate epochs of fashion, culture, tech, etc; Time itself can be manipulated or navigated differently by various actors (agents, the Zionists, etc) and the Matrix itself seems to have various glitches related to how time flows based on certain events (deja vu caused by forced code change, the wave of slowed reaction to hugely destructive events, etc). Maybe the machines smooth the edges off the time perception of everyone in the program and they just forget what year it is. Maybe temporal awareness is one of those things like taste that the machines can't really figure out and so therefore it's all bass ackwards but no one can put a finger on why things are weird. Maybe the machines just don't have the processing power to do temporal continuity for their mindfuck people farm and just re-run 1945-2000 over and over again. We don't really know because the Wachowskis don't seem very interested in the experiences of normal people in the Matrix beyond the first movie. Which, in my opinion, is a pretty big misstep! As someone else said, so much of the significance of the first movie is that there's a spiritual feel to it, a sense that the Matrix is a hell (or heaven) manifested through technology yet more than the sum of it's blood and metal parts. We never see how your average person perceives any of the subsequent events, or what rationales they create to explain the vagaries of the Matrix, or even how they feel about this weird rear end clone army taking over every one. Neo is ostensibly fighting for humans both inside and outside the Matrix, but those inside are just kind of an afterthought. The sequels have more than enough packed into them, but I feel like they suffer on that point. Other than that, Reloaded is a perfectly decent movie that you would watch a good chunk of if it came on TV on a lazy afternoon, and Reloaded has some high points but is pretty badly overwrought. The Zion battle imagery is much more compelling than the various subplots running through it deserves, and I think the principals all do as good of a job with the material as they can. The Wachowskis are very interesting filmmakers. I don't think I've ever walked away from something they've done without feeling something about it and generally being impressed at how much they obviously put into their stuff, however I've not seen Cloud Atlas (which I think was fortunate to come out before the current wave of extreme cultural scrutiny in media, because there's no way they could get away with MASS YELLOWFACE today). Everything they've done feels way ahead of its time - Speed Racer and Ninja Assassin especially. Sense8 was kind of a whiff for me; interesting premise, great cast, but maybe at times a little too bound up in getting you to invest in the cluster to actually tell the story well. If nothing else their body of work is insanely ambitious in a way that few others can match and I hope they eventually feel motivated to make more. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 03:17
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Mat Cauthon posted:The Wachowskis are very interesting filmmakers. I don't think I've ever walked away from something they've done without feeling something about it and generally being impressed at how much they obviously put into their stuff, however I've not seen Cloud Atlas (which I think was fortunate to come out before the current wave of extreme cultural scrutiny in media, because there's no way they could get away with MASS YELLOWFACE today). They shouldn't get away with it.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:22
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Alhazred posted:They shouldn't get away with it. It was pretty lovely, but their stated purpose of trying to show continuity and linkages by using all the same actors comes as close to a valid excuse as I've ever seen. What do you think would've been the ideal solution to that particular problem?
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Apr 11, 2019 19:03
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Yea I think there's an argument to be made that it's problematic, but at the same time it's not like they just arbitrarily decided to cast white actors and put them in that makeup. They were trying to have each actor play vastly different roles across various time periods and cultures, it's not like the motivation there was to just avoid hiring Asian actors. Its kind of a unique situation, not to say that makes it automatically acceptable.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:06
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The "yellow face" in Cloud Atlas is a more nuanced and more complicated problem than is sometimes given credit. The film quite directly explores the connection between racism and tribalism and capitalistic ideology. The major conflict in each segment of the story involves the human body being reduced to a source of either labor, capital, or food. This isn't the case of the Wachowski's accidentally (whoopsi-doodle!) doing a racism. They purposely exhibited actors playing outside their race to an anti-racist end.
Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Apr 11, 2019 |
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Apr 11, 2019 19:34
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Alhazred posted:They shouldn't get away with it. No disagreement here. PT6A posted:It was pretty lovely, but their stated purpose of trying to show continuity and linkages by using all the same actors comes as close to a valid excuse as I've ever seen. Cast Asian actors in the principal roles?
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Apr 11, 2019 19:35
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Mat Cauthon posted:Cast Asian actors in the principal roles? They did. The principal actress in the Neo Seoul segment was Doona Bae, a Korean woman.
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Apr 11, 2019 19:39
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Mat Cauthon posted:Cast Asian actors in the principal roles? They could also have chosen to not set the story in an asian city.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:05
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Yeah, My main complaint about the Matrix sequels is that the first Matrix at least pretended to take place in the real world. That was actually one of the main appeals of the film ' What if...' as in what if this is what life actually is. The sequels throw all of that out the loving window by not showing any real people, setting the whole thing in some fictional MegaCity or whatever it was called, and even telling the main actors not to show emotion in the action scenes, removing any tension whatsoever.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:06
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Alhazred posted:They could also have chosen to not set the story in an asian city. Not without completely changing the adaptation
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Apr 11, 2019 20:12
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CityMidnightJunky posted:Yeah, My main complaint about the Matrix sequels is that the first Matrix at least pretended to take place in the real world. That was actually one of the main appeals of the film ' What if...' as in what if this is what life actually is. The sequels throw all of that out the loving window by not showing any real people, setting the whole thing in some fictional MegaCity or whatever it was called, and even telling the main actors not to show emotion in the action scenes, removing any tension whatsoever. It's the problem you have when Alice has gone through the Looking Glass, nobody's gonna care about if her nanny wonders where she is or whatever, it's mother loving Cheshire Cat Time 24/7! The mistake is when storytellers feel the need to explain how exactly Cheshire Cat relates to Alice, the Mad Hatter and possible the Scarecrow from Oz, because why not.
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Apr 11, 2019 20:18
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My Jupiter Ascending UHD got here today. UV digital code: HTCXCW9GB7JW
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Apr 11, 2019 23:22
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Basebf555 posted:My Jupiter Ascending UHD got here today. My girlfriend loves this movie. Thank you.
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Apr 11, 2019 23:34
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Not without completely changing the adaptation Why is it so crucial to the plot to have it set in Korea?
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Apr 12, 2019 06:53
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Schwarzwald posted:The "yellow face" in Cloud Atlas is a more nuanced and more complicated problem than is sometimes given credit. The film quite directly explores the connection between racism and tribalism and capitalistic ideology. The major conflict in each segment of the story involves the human body being reduced to a source of either labor, capital, or food. This isn't the case of the Wachowski's accidentally (whoopsi-doodle!) doing a racism. They purposely exhibited actors playing outside their race to an anti-racist end. Yeah I've never bought into that argument against the film. For some reason it didn't click with me at first, but one day I had the flu and took a few vicodin and watched the whole thing again and it struck me as "perfect" in a way that few other films ever have (Natural Born Killers and A Scanner Darkly would be two other examples) Sense8 is also really really loving good.
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Apr 12, 2019 10:07
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Alhazred posted:Why is it so crucial to the plot to have it set in Korea? It's not, but as other people have mentioned, Cloud Atlas is an INCREDIBLY faithful adaptation of the source material, for better or for worse. They tried to transfer it over from book to film, warts and all. It just turns out that some of those warts look waaaay worse in film.
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Apr 12, 2019 19:15
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I will always remember the matrix films but I most likely wont watch them again anytime soon. I just done watched them too much. The video game they did was really good though. I donno it was on xbox? There was a level with giant ants. The game where you play the girl from matrix reloaded was awful though. That highway level just went on and on and nothing happened.
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Apr 13, 2019 21:40
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Tenzarin posted:I will always remember the matrix films but I most likely wont watch them again anytime soon. I just done watched them too much. Path of Neo? that game was extremely legit iirc
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Apr 13, 2019 22:30
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https://theoutline.com/post/7316/why-are-anime-adaptations-so-bad?utm_source=TW&zr=vp5reute&zd=1&zi=yzhfgwhzquote:Really, the task of a successful anime adaptation is to grasp what it feels like to watch anime, then translate that feeling using the tools available, rather than simply putting boy band Goku on a big screen. This is why the best anime adaptation is also the one that is most willing to seem — to be — childish, to wear its goofy heart on its goofy sleeve: the Wachowski sisters’ 2008 version of Speed Racer. Apparently Speed Racer has a good mainstream consensus now? I would like to point out that I've been stanning Speed Racer since day one. I saw it in theaters four times, the same amount of times I saw TDK in theaters at the height of my Batman craze. I can totally understand how some posters in the Alita thread say they saw it a bunch of times.
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Apr 15, 2019 16:15
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I feel like I am the only person who genuinely likes the Matrix sequels, and finds them satisfying and lots of fun to watch. Reloaded is such a blast, especially once they meet the Merovingian and things really get moving, and Revolutions felt of a piece with the other epic conclusions to franchises coming out at around the same time and was a fine conclusion. I thought this explained why the Matrix sequels are good, or at least how they don't deserve the bad reputation they have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvyCyyFRpfE
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Apr 15, 2019 20:02
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