Gunshow Poophole posted:

it's sorta looking at everything from an ecosystemic perspective

appropriate considering we're cooking the ol planet

animist posted:

A dialectic is when you slam two terrible ideas together to create something even Worse

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

Thesis: I want to bang my maid
Antithesis: I am married

*Marx thinking harder than he ever thought*

Synthesis: Wait til the family is away and bang my maid

quote:

Marx, Engels and Lenin are asked whether they would prefer to have, a wife or a mistress. As expected, Marx, rather conservative in private matters, answers ‘A wife!’, while Engels, more of a bon vivant, opts for a mistress. To everyone’s surprise, Lenin says: ‘I’d like to have both!’ Why? Is there a hidden stripe of decadent jouisseur behind his austere revolutionary image? No – he explains: ‘so that I can tell my wife that I am going to my mistress, and my mistress that I have to be with my wife…’ ‘And then, what do you do?’ ‘I go to a solitary place to learn, learn, and learn!’

Hodgepodge posted:

(He actually just had both, of course).

WampaLord posted:

When we get holodecks I'm gonna play poker with Marx, Engels, and Lenin (Trotsky can come play too, Stalin can watch from the rail and just shout Russian curses whenever a crazy river card hits) like they did on TNG.

"ANOTHER ACE ON RIVER? NYET!"

Feranon posted:

i bet if those fuckers were alive today they'd be MTGlords

animist posted:

A dialectic is when you slam two terrible ideas together to create something even Worse

etalian posted:

So basically like the philosophical equivalent to a desperate Tinder date?

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

dr. rummel = thesis

mr. snuff = antithesis

rummelsnuff = synthesis

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

Feranon posted:

mao storms in and flips the poker table over like jesus in the temple

scolds his fellows for playing a bougie kkkapitalist game

Finicums Wake posted:

the thesis/antithesis/synthesis schema never comes up in hegel (or marx iirc) and isnt, imo, the best way to try to simplify dialectical thinking. or, at least, i always found that framing of it more confusing than just reading marx and trying to apply his conceptual categories and their relations to other stuff i read about

Captain Billy Pissboy posted:

Thesis: I want to bang my maid
Antithesis: I am married

*Marx thinking harder than he ever thought*

Synthesis: Wait til the family is away and bang my maid

Victory Position posted:

drunk, dumb, but do you hate OP

animist posted:

A dialectic is when you slam two terrible ideas together to create something even Worse

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

dialectical analysis time!

i think a lot of people here see that the madness of U.S. politics is because both political parties are bought by big business and that serves to obscure class divisions, but they have a hard time putting it into words. i would start by looking at the parties as not just being bought by big business, but by fractions of big business rooted in different economic sectors that are co-dependent (they need each other) but have a different interests that conflict.

the modern capitalist economy is a value chain in which resources are pulled out of the ground, turned into commodities (manufacturing), and then bought and sold on the marketplace and then serviced after they are sold. this goes from agriculture to mining, oil and gas drilling, up to manufacturing and logistics to move the stuff from A to Z, to the large corporate office towers to manage and provide the finance to everything including the advertising and the "human resources" involved to make production more efficient. as in material production, so as in intellectual production as well as with schools and universities, and research and development for new products and services -- all of this creates new wants and desires, and as products move up the value chain, they become more valuable.

the democrats used to be the party of organized labor, but have over the course of decades moved away from that and have become concentrated in cities and represented by service-sector industries including education, "creative class" types, technology, government workers, media, entertainment, technology in silicon valley, etc. the republicans' base of support is in extractive industries: coal and steel, oil and gas, logging, large-scale ranching interests (here in texas) and rural landowners, real estate, and increasingly manufacturing. there's a lot of overlap in some sectors (finance). but one difference is that services often operate on global scales. primary sector industries are often rooted in particular places. oil can only come out of the ground in specific places. these industries can also face greater risks on the global marketplace.

now there's also a distinction in marxism between the "base" and "superstructure." the material base shapes and is maintained by the cultural, social and political superstructure (but the base is dominant).



this is the main reason why the succdems prefer technocratic solutions which derive from their respective material base. not redistribution, but "innovation" in the delivery of services. healthcare is still a commodity, but you are required to buy health insurance. instead of a job guarantee, wage improvements, or strengthening of organized labor in terms of collective bargaining, you have "job training." instead of univeral higher education, your student loans are deferred if you create a tech startup. schools are also privatized and turned into "charter schools."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rMVNC5l4IM

regrettably, one of the outcomes of this structure is people resorting to the subjective (social) prejudices that arise from their respective material bases to explain what has gone wrong. they look for scapegoats as "neoliberal shill, coastal elitist, technocrat dandy" bob chipman does here, locating the problem in people who are not "innovative" like him:

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1113673760790523904
he senses that there is a division in society, but he has a whiggish and linear view of history -- we're always marching toward progress. the "deplorables" in the countryside are just holding it back. but he doesn't see how the people who are "creating" new tastes in the cities are dependent on the resources and manufacturing in trump country. this is because he has no material analysis, and is basically just another bigot.

the same resorting to prejudices also goes for the right, with its focus on exclusion of those "not round 'round here" such as immigrants and perceived threats to the patriarchal and ethnic social order (gender also plays an important role here). americans working in "rooted" industries tied to particular places resort to scapegoating people who are different. immigrants should be deported or their subordination intensified. gender roles should be reinforced, not weakened by this ocean of threats ranging from "soyboys" to trans people. instead of expanding "access to" resources through "innovation," they will literally wall off "access to" resources. like their succdem counterparts, redistribution is never discussed. racial / cultural nationalism binds them (subjectively) to the owners of large industries that dominate rural and exurban america.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4RKH3DRmr0

but without the people in the cities adding value to all this stuff, their industries would stagnate and decline. this is the contradiction.

i should note that this is very simplified and i'm also still trying to understand it. i'd note that a lot of working class people simply do not vote *ever* and that voters are disproportionately comprised of the managerial sectors of these industries. it's not necessarily the worker but the assistant manager of the propane company in amarillo, texas who loves trump. it's the HR manager at the tech office who will donate to beto o'rourke. that's my impression, although i think a lot of working-class people are basically aligning behind these subjective interests / identities and not their objective class interests because they have no class consciousness, because there is a lot of money and powerful interests -- including the police -- working to keep it that way in a bourgeois republic "where humbug reigns supreme" as marx put it.

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

assistant manager of the propane company

V. Illych L. posted:

the dialectic is when you're stupid so you gently caress up and take the entirely wrong lessons from it, leaving you stupid so you gently caress up,...

Gazpacho posted:

I see what you did there

Farm Frenzy posted:

i flip over the table and turn the phenomenology of spirit into the phenomenology of poo poo

galagazombie posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyeTaXv6o4Y