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R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

god bless

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R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991


more accurate to have no end and an endless chain of thesis-antithesis-synthesis. teleology is so 18th century

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Kobayashi posted:

Teleology is another one of those wtf terms for me, I think it’s the idea that there’s some grand plan or defined end state of history? And the Marxist would say nah that poo poo doesn’t exist? I feel like makes it sound like nihilism though, which isn’t how I understand the term.

marxists don't believe in a kind of millenarian stageist process where things resolve themselves, nor do we think history is this forward progression where there's an end in sight and the slow march gets us where we want to be eventually. you have to a) be involved in history, actively working to shape it in the direction you want, and b) history is just as capable of regressing as it is progressing, which means you're doing the world a disservice if you don't follow a).

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

twoday posted:

Yes, the first two paragraphs of your post were the conclusions I came to myself.

As for how I’m approaching it, I’m not sure, I was just thinking about the subjective nature of history and then thought of this. I don’t want to know if Marx was right because I’m not sure if it’s possible for someone to be right about something (because, once again, subjectivity). So then the question becomes how to reinterpret his ideas in light of new historical information, and indeed the answer I came to was to go beyond his own personal theories and look towards the process of dialectical materialism (and other analytical tools) that came about after Marx.

have you read socialism: utopian and scientific?

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Kobayashi posted:

I've tried to read this like 5 times, tfw the you realize the dude you knew as an "evil dictator" growing up is actually a lot smarter than you... owned

and it's probably the simplest summation of it, lol

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