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I thought it was an overall decent episode, especially by recent standards. My main issue is around how unrealistically underused scouting/spies/little birds has been. The first few seasons were pretty much built on the vast amount of political intrigue and military strategy that came from all the intel that characters like Varys, Little Fingers, Tywin, even sometimes Robb Stark had received. Now? Varys seems to have no more knowledge based. No one has knowledge of the White Walkers whereabouts apparently, no way to verify jackshit about the Lannister forces. Also, Bran, the ideal guy who can provide info on all the current ongoings around the world, well, I suspect he's been secretly spending a lot of his vision powers to stare at Jaime's antics to finally time a perfect troll job at Winterfell. The fall from the tower only gave him a taste of that Lannister twincest, and he's probably seen a lot more since. Anyone annoyed that Cersei gave Euron poo poo before boning him, what did you really expect? It was pretty in character and plus it would've come off pretty weird if after being asked for a "private" conversation she simply said "yes" followed by that post-coitus scene. It also finally hit me that Euron is a spitting image of Josh Jackson from Dawson's Creek.
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Apr 15, 2019 14:36
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I enjoyed this episode, aside from the difficult yo follow actions as people have said. I've actually liked most of the season except for Bran, who's been a pretty poo poo character and no one seems to push him for more knowledge no or insight on what they're facing. That's all it comes down to, NK was never going to talk or reveal much himself, only Bran or maybe Sam could fill in the gaps and thus far, NOPE. Maybe Bran really is a secret heel, because he probably knew enough to save a lot of lives (danger of the crypts, adjusting war strategy, etc.).
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Apr 29, 2019 15:15
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Oh yeah that Dothraki charge at the beginning. When Dany and Jon were watching them charge while waiting by their dragons, I couldn't help but think, "why don't they use their dragon's fire to try to light the area for visibility?" It was probably a doomed charge either way, but they'd at least have a fighting chance if they could actually see their foes. In the end it wouldn't have mattered with that magical(?) blizzard messing with visibility later, but at that point it would've been a good practical effort. Also, now that the Red Woman's dead, I wonder how Varys is going to die. Zombie war would've made some sense, but I don't see a circumstance where he's anywhere near a battlefield from here on out to be killed by Cersei's forces. Maybe he'll take a hit by Bronn to save Tyrion?
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Apr 29, 2019 16:27
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So Cersei's going to go Mad-King to try to up the stakes right?
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Apr 29, 2019 17:25
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My biggest beef will always be how Tyrion went from being a disillusioned version of Tywin-lite to a full-on amalgamation of Ned and Caitlyn Stark as Dany's hand. It's not just that he's been giving bad advice for the last few seasons, it's that it's all based on blind trust that everyone is suddenly true to their word. It was such a jarring change when it first started to show up, and it's just felt like weak writing since things got serious. I'm actually kind of looking forward to his downfall as I was when I rewatched season 1 and understood how stupid Ned was.
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May 13, 2019 15:06
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If anyone watches the Ringer's Talk the Thrones show, it's pretty funny seeing them tip toe around saying they hated last night's episode. HBO is an investor in the site.
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May 13, 2019 15:12
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Raccooon posted:Varys and Tyrion scheming was partly on that she won't take others advice. I like to think Varys was actually thinking Dany was going to snuff out her inner circle people and more generally be a murderous tyrant. Her going full on genocidal at a surrender is something I doubt neither he nor Tyrion would've considered. I mean even during a worst case scenario where the city didn't surrender, it's not like she couldn't have targeted the dragon fire solely at the Red Keep itself. It still would've been a major tragedy for the hundreds contained within the Keep.
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May 13, 2019 15:17
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Captain Jesus posted:Cleganebowl was bad because nothing was at stake, compared for example to the Oberyn/The Mountain fight. The fight itself was also pretty unremarkable. The Hound should have stabbed buff Varys in the eye with the dagger right away instead of stabbing him repeatedly in other places with no effect. Nothing was preventing him from stabbing the eye immediately when he took it out. The scene was at least 50% fan service to begin with. The Mountain was clearly not a zombie automation as they went out of their way to show him break his orders and kill Qyburn because of his inner hate for his bro. The fight was fine, I don't believe either of the brothers were ever depicted as spectacular or talented swordsman, they both relied on their brute strength and durability to beat most of their opponents. Ultimately, Sandor's greatest achievement was redeeming Arya and his final fight with his brother was in his mind always going to lead to his own death. The scene played out to show he was correct. Plus it's a much grander death and story arc than a lot of people have gotten in the show. The Hound doesn't give a drat about the politics, the games or most people. His entire story is about how much he hated his brother and the path it led him down. Now he's got nothing left but to exorcise the demon.
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May 13, 2019 15:25
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What's the main reason Jon Snow rejects Dany? Are we to assume it's because she's his aunt and he thinks it's icky? I blame him blueballing her for the death of thousands.
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May 13, 2019 15:28
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Yes they (Tyrion/Varys) even elaborate on this. So when he says "I love you" still, does he mean it as a nephew?
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May 13, 2019 15:31
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Super Deuce posted:Absolutely it's about Sandor. The problem is, why would they give the zombie the order breaking nonsense to uphold his grudge. It was just dumb. Either he's a husk or he's not. Eh this is a pretty common trope, usually for good guys who've been mind controlled or taken over and the only way to overcome the change is via love. To my knowledge, they never explicitly explain the nature of Zombie Mountain's post mortem existence. They did have him rape that shame nun though, which is strong evidence that there's still more to him than we know.
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May 13, 2019 15:36
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I said come in! posted:It sucks to get such a terrible ending to such a great show. I legit loved all of Game of Thrones up until season 8. I have been invested in this world since the books first came out and the very first episode aired on TV. I can understand peoples anger over how horrible season 8 is. This is Dexter, and Breaking Bad levels of awful. Breaking Bad? That ending was great. And you're saying it's as bad as Dexter?
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May 13, 2019 15:39
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Maybe a lot of the issues with this season would've been fixed if they chose hand-wavy exposition/narration over half-assed on screen depictions of crucial events that are meant to advanced major portions of story. Clearly they were constrained with budget and time, but episode 4 was basically the most important episode of the season as far as plot development for Dany, and they chose to dump months of tragedy into like 30 hokey minutes of quick succession. After spending years of her just inching through Essos, boring me to death as they showed the daily grindings of her sitting on a throne and listening to random citizen concerns, her progress towards hitting the nuke option on innocents could've used a more even handed progression.
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May 13, 2019 15:46
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Straight White Shark posted:It irritates me a lot too because there's almost some interesting things going on. Having a blind spot for his siblings because he's so desperate to belong as a Lannister is interesting. Giving Daenerys way too much benefit of the doubt because the alternative is too monstrous to contemplate is interesting. But these things only work if they're contrasted against Tyrion otherwise being clever. Ever since Tyrion shot Tywin his track record has been extremely mixed at its absolute best. So instead of a story about a brilliant mind suffering moments of personal weakness it's a story about a big ol dum dum doing stupid things for the entire second half of the series. It's also that he stops being able to read people as well. Strategically, what ever happened to the use of spies, scouts, little birds, anything? That's what made the early conflicts interesting. Everyone was trying to be one step ahead and always aware of their enemies' moves and whereabouts. Tyrion and Varys both dropped that ball into an endless pit and's the most hamfisted of Tyrion's lovely strategies in Westeros. He's never anticipated a single thing which is why their side had so many losses until now.
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May 13, 2019 15:54
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I actually enjoyed episodes 1 and 2 this season for what they were, leaving judgment for what would ensue. Now that we're at this point, I'm like WTF were they thinking wasting so much time back then? They at least could've thrown in more Mad Dany foreshadowing rather than Catty/Resentful Dany. Maybe a few lines hinting at sociopathic feelings towards people in general, frustrations that lead to her sometimes feelings like just burning it all down, poo poo like that. Even having to be talked down from outright doing some crazy poo poo. "JON, I lost a child saving you... You owe me. I love you, don't ever betray me Jon. Ever. You don't know what I'm capable of." Anything really instead of the nothing we got.
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May 13, 2019 16:03
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Midgetskydiver posted:Or you know, they could have shown her staring at the city with a somewhat blank expression, then hearing the bells, showing a loving frame of only the red keep, then showing Dany lose her poo poo with rage. Oh wait they did exactly that. Maybe they should've shown a little kid throwing poo poo at her or something and calling her a mad bitch for murdering his father soldier or whatever. Literally any minimal justification would've been better for her snapping than what we got. Her response was over the top enough that nothing would truly justify how far she went. My biggest beef with her nuclear option comes down to the fact that even she would've known there's no realistic way for her to rule that place after what she did. She destroyed the kingdom, not conquered it. It's loving Chernobyl now. Who's she going to get to help her rebuild anything? She's probably murdered all the able bodied builders and anyone living has been pushed to the extreme to be antipathetic towards her. It won't happen, but any realistic outcome of episode 5 should be her being like "Oh poo poo, I went too far, oops" and then peacing out back to Essos to rule there where they love her.
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May 13, 2019 16:13
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Red posted:You could infer the Hound decided he had no life but revenge when he realized he couldn’t relate to other people at the party. Agreed. He even rejected an easy lay. The Hound's arc could've been a movie by itself and it would've been a decent one too. Plenty of Eastern movies have been about people being consumed with revenge, being steered away, and then ultimately realizing that unfortunately all they care about is fulfilling their revenge fantasy anyway. That this is who they truly are. It's not like they Hound was kissing babies and talking about getting his own castle to settle down in. He got his rear end beat, abandoned, and then fell into a group of hippies and finally after they were wiped, he teamed with religious zealots. Frankly, I think he's gotten one of the best character treatment of the majority of the episode 1 characters. He's one of the few characters that actively drove his own choices and went out the way he wanted.
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May 13, 2019 16:23
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Heh, I think it would've been more interesting if Dany tried to convince Jon that their banging is ok and being all bullshit that he still rejects it.
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May 13, 2019 16:26
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No Wave posted:I wanted a lumberjack ending for the hound tbh. This only works if he abandoned a family to Dorne to impose his own witness protection program on himself.
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May 13, 2019 16:27
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Straight White Shark posted:honestly I'm not even sure it's about the revenge at this point. He's come to accept that he hasn't lived a good life and knows he can't go on living like he used to but he doesn't know any other life (and maybe doesn't think he deserves to live that life it even if he knew how.) His whole plan is an elaborate suicide attempt. The possibility of revenge is just gravy, the main object is just going out on his own terms. That's also a very viable interpretation. I'm not a GoT book reader so I don't know if they explain him in more detail, but we're never really in his head in the show. But it is clear he wants to do things his own way, which is huge for this universe. The majority of the show has been about the clash of class status and expectations vs. personal desire and Sandor's had one of the best self-contained stories. The way things are going, I'm doubting we'll even get an epilogue for the individual characters that survive the finale.
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May 13, 2019 16:53
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Nail Rat posted:I think there's too much baggage there with the Mad King and then what Dany did, there's no way she could rule with any stability - there would always be rebellions or assassination attempts brewing. In any case when she dies, if she's not leaving an heir, it would throw the kingdoms into chaos because nobody could control Drogon and nobody would inspire the same fear she did. The biggest TBD but probably going lovely thing about Dany's big heel turn is that it'll only be "good TV" with strong dialogue and I have no reason to believe it won't be anything but crazy melodramatic cheese like the duel in the Revenge of the Sith. I'm hoping we get a good duel between Snow and Greyworm or something though. At least it was hinted there could be something there when Grey looked annoyed at Jon's attempted pacificism against murdering surrendered soldiers.
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May 13, 2019 16:57
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Tei posted:You are confused. Dany never had a problem burning innocent childrens ... when that helps her agenda. Otherwise she is against it. Ah the allegory for modern politics.
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May 13, 2019 16:58
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I hope this ends with Jon killing Dany, going to Bran and putting himself into a timeloop to become the Night King in order to hope for micro changes to change Dany from completely Mad Queen to merely Irritable Queen.
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May 13, 2019 17:07
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Haha, it's funny that people are trying to defend the Dany genocide heel turn as being built up or even hinted at. The show's been written like poo poo for years now. They botched their biggest plot twist because of budget/time/shock value/buzz and that's it. This theme of heroes turning into mad tyrants has been done by plenty of superior and believable stories in the past, including even 90 minute movies. This show had 8 seasons to work with and dropped the ball a long time ago. At this point it's best enjoyed as schlock
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May 13, 2019 17:21
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Josuke Higashikata posted:lol jon just gently caress your girlfriend aunt and talk to her at the party and none of this happens The only lesson to be taken from this show is that incestual love triumphs above all. Jon pretty much needs to kill the irreconcilable Dany and go home and marry his cousin Sansa to make things right.
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May 13, 2019 17:23
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Astro7x posted:I don't think that the turn was masterfully built up, and yes, it felt rush. To say that they never even hinted at it is just people upset about it feeling rushed This may go into a semantics debate, but i think you get my (and a lot of people's) overall point. I think her sociopathy and openness to kill people who cross her is very much shown or hinted, but the genocide of mass innocents option is a pretty far extreme. I said earlier, even if she simply razed the Red Keep and everyone inside, that was already a pretty extreme option. And I think it's the one Tyrion and Varys were most afraid of actually happening. Her playing Panzer Dragoon all over King's Landing was probably way above their fears and expectations, at least of the initial siege.
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May 13, 2019 17:35
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No Wave posted:Remember: Bran foresaw all of this. He made Sam tell Jon about his heritage. This is all his master plan. The true villain of the show. Deep down he's still Bran and just mad as hell he can't get a stiffy any longer. Ultimately, it's clear only one man can save the 7 kingdoms now. Ser Podrick needs to use his big dick to slay the Mad Queen.
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May 13, 2019 17:38
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Ghetto SuperCzar posted:i mean, burning herself when she had the dragon babies seemed pretty crazy at the time. They showed her knowing full well she can't be burnt as early as her first appearance. She also shades her bro when he dies to the gold being melted on his head. She was being pretty calculated about the fire with the dragon babies.
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May 13, 2019 17:43
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Zaphod42 posted:This is another rushed plot that doesn't really work. She was sold to be the bride of a warlord and after he died all her respect was completely gone until she got some dragons. I agree. She also gained her love through fear, but calculated use of it. Her dragons were the source of all the trust and love that people put into her because she controlled the dragons. Key word, controlled. She didn't go ape poo poo on entire cities because she ultimately didn't need to. The Dolthraki are literally following her because she killed all their kings and walked out of a burning hut unscathed.
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May 13, 2019 17:51
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TyrantWD posted:People's reaction to this episode comes across as really disingenuous. Clearly the worst episode of the series? It was not nearly as nonsensical as the Battle of Winterfell, and last week's episode was so bad it puts the worst of the Arrowverse to shame. Episode 4 was way worst. I think people are just put off that this was the biggest plot development of the entire series and it was completely rushed with little justification. For those people, it's one of the more insulting episodes of the series, which makes it feel bad.
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May 13, 2019 17:53
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nooneofconsequence posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/bo6gqw/spoilers_i_am_amazed_how_well_that_fits/ Definitely improves the imagery. Watching her start the onslaught though... still feels hollow as hell. Would've made a lot more sense if she went straight to the red keep, murdered everyone there, took her throne and then maybe terrorized the town upon feeling like the townsfolk still didn't love her enough or whatever. At this point, it kind of just makes me shrug a bit as I've completely subverted all my expectations into nothing.
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May 13, 2019 22:55
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So if Tyrion had any sense, he'd be off to Winterfell now right? I mean, there's like a 0% chance he'll live through whatever the gently caress is going through Dany's mind. Much less of a chance he'll be able to positively affect the situation either.
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May 14, 2019 01:32
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Raccooon posted:Lol HBO in damage control making sure D&D get the blame. As rushed as the major developments have been, it's not like D&D didn't waste a whole lot of time this season. There's been plenty of viewers conjuring their own ways that they could've done better even within the last 2 episodes. This has been worse than X-Men: Last Stand's Jean heel turn. The actual burning and sacking of King's Landing was maybe 15+ minutes on screen? Could easily have been half as long as conveyed the same imagery. The other half could've been spent building a more universally believable and justified way that things escalated so quickly.
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May 14, 2019 16:15
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Nail Rat posted:It'd probably be Bronnson or something like that, the Lannisters started with a dude named Lann. He gets to pick it and tell his kids whatever their name is, and his grandsons get to ruin his family name. Maybe it's actually Bronn Dickon, and his prior shade at the Tarly was projection.
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May 14, 2019 16:17
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Haha this thread had been going in circles about he same topic for 3 straight days. Guys, the show sucks. It's not your fault. For chrissakes, the Simpsons did a better job of building up Homer's murderous rage in 5 minutes of the "Shinning."
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May 14, 2019 19:57
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So what are the odds this poo poo is going to sweep the Emmys this year?
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May 14, 2019 21:47
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Gonna be blown away by the ending of Ned waking up from his long nightmare and tying Bran down to a chair (wink wink) to ensure the little rascal doesn't climb up any tower until the King's party leaves and declines the Hand appointment. Robert shrugs and appoints Stannis as his hand, who quickly discovers the incest poo poo and the Lannisters are eliminted. King Mannis and his heir, Renly, lead Westeros into a legendary peace and the Lord of Light stomps the undead at the wall. The end. iamsosmrt fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 16, 2019 |
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May 16, 2019 17:56
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Agent Burt Macklin posted:Once they kill Dany, however that happens, if Grey Worm lives, isn't he going to want revenge or whatever? Grey Worm is completely loyal - so how do they handle the Unsullied, Dorthraki, and the dragon? I can't imagine how they wrap all this up in 80 minutes or so. Did you see how they wrapped up Dany's dark turn to ultimate Madness in like 20 minutes?
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May 16, 2019 18:11
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So if Tyrion is executed next episode, poor Bronn won't get his castle... 
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May 16, 2019 18:27
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Nail Rat posted:The North sort of forgot. They're going to conveniently forget all the rape and murder their remaining men committed down south.
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May 16, 2019 18:31
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