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So I'm the wife of a regular here (out yourself if you want or not, babe) and I'm taking a course in sociolinguistics. I'm looking for info for my final paper. This research will probably not be for the greater good because it'll never get published because I'm an undergrad, so your responses are a favor to me, and I thank you in advance. I'm writing about small internet communities and their rules for politeness, especially communities that use very different standards than everyday spoken English. Basically, that means that I'm interested in the way you bastards talk to one another in the foulest of tones while still maintaining serious support when it matters most. I appreciate and value everyone's personal stories, but I'm not so much looking to collect combat stories. Instead, I want to know how having this forum with its particular rules and customs works for you. Is it the respect for service? the irreverence? the space to tell your own story? Something else? What do you like about the spoken and unspoken rules of GIP as opposed to other spaces for servicemembers and vets? Feel free to ask me questions, roast me for being a dependa, whatever. I'd love to have some dialogue with a few of you, or just a couple of comments. Thanks again, and thank you for your service.
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Apr 14, 2019 21:43
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No, thank you for paying your taxes. This is the only veteran oriented place online or off that I use, mainly because almost all of the rest of them are poisonous to anyone who isn't a zealot for the United States and its policies. It's nice to have people with one shared background that are mostly civil to each other, and I think that comes from the way this site works in general. The pay wall keeps the crazies out, and the threat of having to spend more money if you're a poo poo head keeps most people on good behavior.
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Apr 14, 2019 22:15
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A Bad Poster posted:No, thank you for paying your taxes. Thanks, and thank you for speaking the to truth of the paywall. It makes a difference.
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Apr 14, 2019 22:26
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I think it helps we are fairly self regulating. If you break a taboo, you get chastized socially and a warning. At first (unless something super heinous), it comes as little jokes and barbs, maintaining the lighter social situation. When it becomes repeated is where it get interesting. Because first you are approached with some poo poo slinging, but it comes off almost jovial. Next comes the 'Maybe we didn't get what you meant'- most of the time, the group allows them to explain, because we all have been clumsy with words. Then comes debate, then varying levels of social punishment, which could end up being ban/probate, but more often comes in the form of ridicule and running them out for being poo poo heads. I'm sure that wasn't as coherent as I wanted, and I missed some stuff, but hey, data.
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Apr 14, 2019 23:41
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Wroughtirony posted:So I'm the wife of a regular here (out yourself if you want or not, babe) and I'm taking a course in sociolinguistics. Interesting questions. I've really only started to post in GiP in the past two years. For me, the reason I started posting more frequently was because there were people here that could understand what I'd gone through who'd be sympathetic and understanding without being condescending about it. There's also the unspoken, but always present, support for one another. Someone can be having a rough time-- or do something really stupid--and sure, you'll have the people that make a quip about it, but there's almost always someone here who will provide advice or help you out in some way. We're not here to circle jerk about our service, and there isn't that chuddiness that's often associated with other service member groups. Isn't the unofficial forum motto "I am deeply conflicted about my service" or something like that? If nothing else, we tend to say it a lot, and I think that that's a healthy way of looking at what we do/did. There are certainly aspects of our service that all of us are conflicted about or feel was wrong, and we're not about to sugar coat that with pretty pictures of the flag and weeping eagles. I agree with bulletsponge13 about the self regulation and taboos being a big role too as to why we tend to stick around. Yes, you can have your jokes or jabs, but if you cross a line, you'll know it from other members. Sometimes the probations are in good fun too because you didn't post a dog picture for your fifth post or some poo poo like that.
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Apr 15, 2019 00:14
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bulletsponge13 posted:I think it helps we are fairly self regulating. If you break a taboo, you get chastized socially and a warning. At first (unless something super heinous), it comes as little jokes and barbs, maintaining the lighter social situation. What are some of the taboos that are not such a big deal? What are the rules that are more strict?
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Apr 15, 2019 00:24
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The Valley Stared posted:Interesting questions. I've really only started to post in GiP in the past two years. For me, the reason I started posting more frequently was because there were people here that could understand what I'd gone through who'd be sympathetic and understanding without being condescending about it. There's also the unspoken, but always present, support for one another. Someone can be having a rough time-- or do something really stupid--and sure, you'll have the people that make a quip about it, but there's almost always someone here who will provide advice or help you out in some way. If dog or cat pics are on offer, I definitely expect them, btw. Thanks a ton for your perspective, may I have your permission to quote you in my paper? I'll just use your username, or if you want, another anonymous name.
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Apr 15, 2019 00:31
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Wroughtirony posted:If dog or cat pics are on offer, I definitely expect them, btw. No cat and dogs pics from me. I move too much to own an animal right now, and the family pet recently passed away at 22. He was a good, old, grouchy bird. And this name is fine. Thank you for asking.
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Apr 15, 2019 01:26
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For my tenure here it boils down to three big norms: 1. Don't gently caress with the suicide prevention thread. It's a hot topic for our community. 2. As a group we realized that society was moving into post-irony. There are things we used to joke about that aren't okay, and I think we're doing alright recognizing that and moving on. Ironic racism is simply that, racism. 3. gently caress the police.
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Apr 15, 2019 01:36
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Most of the taboos I refer to come down to changes in attitude. When I first ventured in here, calling someone a retard was a normal thing. Over the years, it's changed. We don't use it like that anymore. As the collective age of the forum has risen, it has added to a familial understanding of roles- like the unofficial mods, or the irony banning ones- they help tend the herd. Or a lot of the 'ironic' poo poo that spills from other forums. Mostly, it comes down to a shared culture before hand. We know the tribal customs, we have shared the same burdens. That cohesion carries on. poo poo, look at all the good the outreach threads have done. And quote away.
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Apr 15, 2019 02:06
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The Valley Stared posted:Isn't the unofficial forum motto "I am deeply conflicted about my service" or something like that? The motto is, "I don't believe in anything I'm just here for the violence," you loving nub. 
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Apr 15, 2019 02:16
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ManMythLegend posted:The motto is, "I don't believe in anything I'm just here for the violence," you loving nub. I thought it was "SMDFTB"? Or is that more a mantra?
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Apr 15, 2019 03:20
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There was an ancient post way back when this forum first started where someone summed it up pretty well about what makes this place different. I remember some of it. There are military sites where people demand to be called by former rank and if you were or are lower ranking then them they treat you like poo poo. If you are DEP or even just interested forget it they treat you like less than poo poo. They will absolutely go off on you and hurl insults at you if you aren’t active and question your competency if you ask any question while active. Way less full blown racists here than Facebook. A lot less weird macho savage poo poo about how if you weren’t a marine rifleman in Falujah during a certain timespan your service was meaningless and a waste of taxpayer money. Flip side of that is no one here does the weird overcompensation of how their service in the Navy reserves from 85-89 was pure national defense and they don’t have wasted money/blood on their hands. Outsiders are welcome here and through the power of the paywall most are respectful and genuinely curious. A lot less weird 14 year olds screaming about how the power of Jesus will guide them to becoming the ultimate SEAL green beret sniper while making GBS threads on people who are actually in but in jobs that are beneath them. It really is just a generally much more chill and relaxed atmosphere here where you can bust jokes and get questions answered at the same time without some weirdo misogynist screaming about how babies conceived in the dorms should be aborted because that is something I actually saw today on Facebook. Cenen fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Apr 15, 2019 |
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Apr 15, 2019 03:25
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A Bad Poster posted:I thought it was "SMDFTB"? Or is that more a mantra? I think it's more of a shibboleth.
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Apr 15, 2019 03:26
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ManMythLegend posted:The motto is, "I don't believe in anything I'm just here for the violence," you loving nub. I said unofficial, sir!
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Apr 15, 2019 03:56
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Cenen posted:There was an ancient post way back when this forum first started where someone summed it up pretty well about what makes this place different. I remember some of it. That's a great way of putting it. Shall I quote you as "Cenen" or something anonymous?
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Apr 15, 2019 04:00
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ManMythLegend posted:I think it's more of a shibboleth. If I can manage to work in "Suck My Dick From The Back" as a 'Shibboleth' I feel like I should get some sort of extra credit....
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Apr 15, 2019 04:06
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Cenen works. I really didn’t do the original post justice I just hope that the person who wrote it knows what I’m talking about or someone else remembers it. It was a long time ago though.
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Apr 15, 2019 04:09
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Wroughtirony posted:If I can manage to work in "Suck My Dick From The Back" as a 'Shibboleth' I feel like I should get some sort of extra credit.... You should work it into the title. It will definitely draw eyes and get you some readers.
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Apr 15, 2019 12:19
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Most of the taboos I refer to come down to changes in attitude. When I first ventured in here, calling someone a retard was a normal thing. Over the years, it's changed. We don't use it like that anymore. As the collective age of the forum has risen, it has added to a familial understanding of roles- like the unofficial mods, or the irony banning ones- they help tend the herd. Or a lot of the 'ironic' poo poo that spills from other forums. Mostly, it comes down to a shared culture before hand. We know the tribal customs, we have shared the same burdens. That cohesion carries on. poo poo, look at all the good the outreach threads have done. And quote away.
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Apr 15, 2019 17:33
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I post in gip because I, for all intents and purposes, try not to interact with anything military related in my day-to-day. I mentally checked out of the military months before I actually got out. I get annoyed by people who leave the service, but never actually leave the service mentally. They are always stuck there and everything in their life revolves around that period where they wore a uniform, even years later. “When I was in the military” is a phrase that will cause me to immediately roll my eyes. This forum lets me interact with people who understand what it’s like to be in the military, and understand how that can really gently caress with you. While I try to avoid it as much as possible in my life outside of the forums, it’s still something I want to be able to reach out to if necessary. Plus, sometimes I just get lonely and there are a bunch of assholes here I can talk to. As far as the taboos, I grew up on SA. I’ve been posting here since I was 16 (31 now). Fag, retard, even the n-word were pretty regular about 15 years ago (the n-word was mostly in FYAD). The forum was basically an edgy middle schooler. It’s grown up and most of us have as well.
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Apr 15, 2019 17:51
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Awesome stuff. Do you feel like your linguistic choices (e.g. the poo poo you say) are informed more by SA, more by the military, or a combination of both? Or does it sort of depend on how long you've been a goon/servicemember? What are some of your favorite turns or phrase and where do they come from?
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Apr 15, 2019 22:19
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Military service definitely adds an entire language of jargon. The phrase "curse like a sailor" exists for a reason, too...but that skillset certainly isn't limited to the Navy. "Clusterfuckery" is probably my favorite word.
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Apr 15, 2019 22:50
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I say"Roger" more than the average person, but other than that nothing totally conscious or obvious. Another vet will probably notice me as a ping on their vet-dar, but I've had classmates tell me that they'd have had no idea I'm a vet if I hadn't told them.
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Apr 15, 2019 22:53
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I don't think a lot of people look to this forum as an audit on decency. There have been enough scandals here that something awful is definitely not an authority on moral matters. That said I read and post here (in gip) for the same reason I read and post on the main forums - there is an intelligble consensus based rationale to how most topics are addressed here. I really felt an urge to be understood pretty severely when I got out of the military. The transition from being enlisted to being free can be pretty jarring and isolating - in my experience I was telling people the same set of stories about my time in the military regularly, but that process always made me feel apart from the people I was speaking to. This forum has provided a great opportunity to broach topics of interest that I would otherwise keep to myself in a setting that is just as stupid and diverse as the military.
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Apr 15, 2019 22:55
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Kawasaki Nun posted:I don't think a lot of people look to this forum as an audit on decency. There have been enough scandals here that something awful is definitely not an authority on moral matters. I'm not trying to provide any insight into decency or a lack thereof. (I think you're a decent bunch of goons, though.) I guess I can clarify a little more about what I'm looking at when I approach this forum for this particular research paper. My goal is to demonstrate how some internet forums have their own "politeness" rules that drastically contradict standard American English forms of written and verbal politeness, to the point where speech that would be considered very rude out of context is actually appropriate and even respectful as part of in-group communication. This is not a new idea, or a particularly radical one, but it's a fun one to document in the wild. Basically I'm saying that GIP (and some subreddits and FB- you're not my only research topic) is a community with internally consistent rules and a wonderful variety of colorful expressions that have real meaning to the people using them and act as a stand-in for some aspects of speech that can be difficult to express in writing. I chose GIP as one forum to focus on because I'm a goon myself and because you guys have a great ability to talk sensitively about important topics in one thread while gleefully bashing each other in the next. It shows a real sophistication that is difficult to bring across in written language, which is why I personally love internet culture so much. Sorry if that's a little too much detail! In essence, don't think of yourselves as being under a microscope and don't think I'm trying to extrapolate anything about military culture in general from this- I just like the way you talk to each other.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:29
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you're looking at it as an outsider, so it's easier for you to spot any nuances we may have in how we communicate. we are embedded in it and it just is what it is. it would be like me trying to describe the sound of my own voice, only i've never heard it anywhere except out of my own mouth. e: i don't want that to sound unhelpful. you've piqued my interest in what you're doing. i just want to offer some insight about why it would be difficult for me personally (and maybe others) to answer your question.
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Apr 15, 2019 23:38
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I've picked up a few helpful phrases from here- 'Autists' is one. 'Go suck poo poo through a dick shaped straw' is another. I've thought about it throughout the day, and I think a large part of our unspoken rules is that we grew together as a whole. We've had things that tested the community in ways other net communities aren't. A suicide here, even from someone who is a poo poo poster or infrequent poster hits us hard because of the previous lives in the military. We all learned the hard way that no one in power gives a gently caress. Most of us are GWOT babies. We did our time, and now have age, maturity, and hindsight to view our service a little more honestly, and since we aren't all beating our dicks ragged to Toby Keith, we realize what a loving waste our service was. We romanticize, but thankfully, there's always a new batch of special needs candidates enlisting and posting to remind us of reality. This is actually really interesting, and I might add more than you'd ever want as I think about this poo poo. E- weirdly enough, I am more socially tact on here, where there is a very limited degree of anonymity (my real info is connected and accessible, but most on here don't care to dig too far) while on my FB, which isn't a burner, I have no issues flinging poo poo, just like real life. I've always tried to be a respectful house guest in my life, and this ain't my house...but it is family, so poo poo happens. bulletsponge13 fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 02:06
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I think it's some theory of nonsummativity here. Basically, we are stronger together than we are by ourselves. I used to not be well liked here, and got a lot of poo poo early on because I was deluded. To be fair, I was going through a lot of crazy psychological bullshit. And GiP called me on it. I don't remember why I came back after I got chased out, but I'm glad I did. I don't talk to any of these people on a single person basis, but I talk with everyone collectively. We recognize our dark humor is part of the charm and know there are just certain lines you don't cross. We fight and argue amongst ourselves over petty bullshit, but everyone does. This family really supports itself by offering a way for people to talk it out. We've also had several unique bonding moments that brought this community closer together by the sheer hilarity of it all. Secret Santa used to be a loving warzone. IDF complained about loving MYPAY (a notoriously slow, broken, and dysfunctional website all service members are required to use, but no one talks about a lot because loving mypay...) before it came out as whatever the gently caress he was. We had a dude apparently go choose to be a freedom fighter in Syria? I'm kinda hazy on that one. The McNally saga too. Always ongoing, always more bad news. Basically, I think it's this...This isn't about me, or anyone as an individual here. This is about us as a collective of individuals. Our story, not our stories. We all have been mistreated, hosed with, close to death, depressed, overlooked, pissed on, etc. We find solace and comfort in our similarities while being able to keep conflict consistent enough for developmental growth. I don't always agree with people here, but we don't have to. We've experienced a lot of things together that really fosters an environment for us to be supportive and immediately poo poo on the same person in another thread. We want the best for each other. This community supported me and radically made me a better photographer, were the only ones (besides my wife) that supported my decision to go to college, and helped me apply paradigm shift to a lot of the situations that required a bit more context to see clearly. I understand what you are talking about in regards to social norms and ethics regarding these forums a bit (I think). I am finishing up my communication studies degree and I remember a lot of small group and org comm stuff being applicable to these forums.
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Apr 16, 2019 02:41
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Yo, this place supported me in ways it won't ever know, and helped me through a few dark spots.
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Apr 16, 2019 02:51
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ManMythLegend posted:The motto is, "lol gently caress you if you're still in," you loving nub. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 13:21
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bulletsponge13 posted:Yo, this place supported me in ways it won't ever know, and helped me through a few dark spots. Whenever I'm asked if I want to join the VFW or American Legion I respond with something like, " Why would I want to compare dick sizes ( military service) with broken old men. Its more accurate to say that I don't join because I can lurk here and watch slightly younger broken men make sense out of this stupid world. There's a shared cultural understanding here but people on this forum are not much like the majority of other vets. I don't have much in common with veterans that I meet IRL. I find them generally to be bitter and entitled. Being a straight white male, when another vet finds out I was in at parties, the conversation goes down 1 of 3 paths: O yea, you did X ? …...So there I was, no poo poo outside tikrit killing everything with my fists and being more badass than you [Recollection of some obvious traumatic event that ends in tears.] summarization of whatever is anti American thing is going on according to Fox News. Kneeling, Emails, Dummycrats. I've heard stranger-vets advocate genocide at a wedding, and ugly cry at a 1 year olds birthday party. It's because I can still speak the language and because of that, they think they've found a kindred spirit. It's like being part of a club full of people with lovely opinions. I'm just trying to be polite and avoid the vitriol that comes out when you challenge these people on their lovely belief system. The flip side to this are the cool vet friends I've made that only reference back to that shared experience to laugh about how dumb they and everyone around them were. These are the people that used their military service as a stepping stone to some other goal. So maybe it's a forward-looking vs backward-looking thing. Sacrist65 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Apr 16, 2019 |
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Apr 16, 2019 17:52
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Damnit, now I want to refocus my entire paper on veteran communities. You guys are awesome.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:38
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I think the big difference is understanding when something is just a part of your life vs your entire identity
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Apr 16, 2019 18:56
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My five years in the military were no more or less important than my five years in high school.
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Apr 16, 2019 18:58
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I would equate people who won't shut up about their military service to people who won't shut up about that one time they went to state in high school football.
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Apr 16, 2019 19:05
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Hank's greatest flaw!
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Apr 16, 2019 19:15
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I'm an outlier- I loves my service, and I miss it. I'm still super bitter and angry, but I am proud, and I came of age in war, so it was a defining thing for me. I just realized that the military doesn't care. It's like the ocean- it's beautiful and chaotic, and can be great bloody fun. But like the ocean, it doesn't give a gently caress about you. You are a skilcraft pen with a face. I've also noticed a relationship between how Vet you act (we all know what I mean- ribbon rack, GWOT hat, Grunt Style, multicam pants, etc) and how much you actually accomplished in your career. Those guys who go over the top, typically ain't done poo poo, and have a complex about it.
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Apr 16, 2019 20:25
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:I think the big difference is understanding when something is just a part of your life vs your entire identity Yep. It's this.
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Apr 17, 2019 00:47
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bulletsponge13 posted:You are a skilcraft pen with a face. Friend, I hope you work for more than ten seconds at a time and don't fall apart at the slightest provocation. I've been purging those things from my household for over a decade and they still keep popping up like a bad penny.
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Apr 17, 2019 02:17
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