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pedro0930 posted:We kind of have that with Ultimate Admiral. Either Ultimate Admiral is very different than I thought or you might be thinking of something besides Terra Invicta.
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Apr 11, 2024 21:54
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Yeah, didn't know that UA was about a long war against Aliens. Terra Invicta counts as a type of grog game, right?
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Apr 12, 2024 03:12
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Absolutely
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Apr 12, 2024 03:16
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The grogiest. Sure, it might not be about real world history, but it does have like a billion different drive types based on real world theoretical concepts for a totally different type of obsessive fan. Bremen fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 03:55
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It's not a grog game. It's a fantasy game with made up systema for how the world works or what decides and affects outcomes of war and economy. It's a vampire the masquerade game if anything
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Apr 12, 2024 04:01
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And it takes a shockingly long time for stuff to happen. I just shelved it pending a major content update.
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Apr 12, 2024 04:02
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RTW and UA’s ship designers are both better than TI’s at least
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Apr 12, 2024 04:08
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:It's not a grog game. It's a fantasy game with made up systema for how the world works or what decides and affects outcomes of war and economy. It's a vampire the masquerade game if anything Its grog, so is children of a dead earth
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Apr 12, 2024 04:09
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Fuligin posted:Its grog, so is children of a dead earth Complexity isn't grog, warfare-y simulationism is. Can't be simulatory if you don't go to far too much effort to make the rules realistic. It's the earth portion with how it represents armies in particular that makes Terra Invicta not grog enough
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Apr 12, 2024 04:17
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is Out of the Park Baseball a grog game? 
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Apr 12, 2024 04:18
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I fully support this thread including OOTP and Football Manager into its remit. Clay Dreslough just released Baseball Mogul 2024 at the end of March.
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Apr 12, 2024 04:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:I fully support this thread including OOTP and Football Manager into its remit. Clay Dreslough just released Baseball Mogul 2024 at the end of March. FM is absolutely a grog game unless grog games must by definition be wargames. That game is eerily realistic sometimes.
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Apr 12, 2024 04:23
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i wish there was an American football mgmt sim like OOTP  theres that college one on steam which is ok
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Apr 12, 2024 04:24
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Pirate Radar posted:RTW and UA’s ship designers are both better than TI’s at least Once I figured out that I could right click to get a table in TI it was much more straightforward. Though I wish the engines would tell you what type of powerplant they needed and vice versa in the ship design screen.
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Apr 12, 2024 04:25
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The only grog thing about TI is the realistic orbital model, everything else is extremely abstracted.
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Apr 12, 2024 04:57
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habeasdorkus posted:Once I figured out that I could right click to get a table in TI it was much more straightforward. Though I wish the engines would tell you what type of powerplant they needed and vice versa in the ship design screen. The engines list that on the current Gamepass version anyway. What do you right-click to get a table though?
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Apr 12, 2024 05:48
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:I've stopped bothering with the extra training unless I'm playing Japan with their reduced training cost tbh. Even gunnery training is only supposed to give you an extra 10% accuracy, but 30% increased maintenance costs can seriously impact the number of ships you can maintain and your replacement build schedule. I'm not seeing a tooltip about how much the bonus is, but as Italy I've been consistently outshooting France and Austria-Hungary by a noticeable margin.
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Apr 12, 2024 06:01
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gradenko_2000 posted:I fully support this thread including OOTP and Football Manager into its remit. Clay Dreslough just released Baseball Mogul 2024 at the end of March. How does baseball mogul compare to ootp? feel free to shoot me a pm if its not ok to post itt
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Apr 12, 2024 06:29
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mllaneza posted:I'm not seeing a tooltip about how much the bonus is, but as Italy I've been consistently outshooting France and Austria-Hungary by a noticeable margin. The bonus is a +10 to your roll. Most good factor adds a +10 to your roll, like good crew, fire control within their effective range...etc. However, these are added up to fight penalties such as...going too fast, turning your ship at all, taking any fire, having more than one ship shooting at the target, etc. It's hard to know how much effective accuracy you are getting, I am guessing something like 1% CTH under good condition (when there's not too many negative factors).
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Apr 12, 2024 06:30
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Kvlt! posted:How does baseball mogul compare to ootp? feel free to shoot me a pm if its not ok to post itt I have not played Baseball Mogul in... over a decade, though I did pick up last year's OOTP when I was going through my "watch Moneyball and get enamored with baseball for a month" phase. To my 2013-era recollection, Mogul didn't have as many of the Sabermetric-grade stats as OOTP did, and it was still in a heavily Windows 95-based interface which made certain multitasking duties a slog, such quickly comparing players. I don't know how much it has improved since. That said, I know older versions of Mogul are given away for free, and it's a great way to get into this ecosystem without dropping a dime if [like me] you don't have any particular connection with IRL teams or players.
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Apr 12, 2024 06:36
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I'm seeing a lot more enemy class names in bold text than I am seeing friendly ship names in bold text.
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Apr 12, 2024 06:38
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gradenko_2000 posted:I have not played Baseball Mogul in... over a decade, though I did pick up last year's OOTP when I was going through my "watch Moneyball and get enamored with baseball for a month" phase. Thank you!! Im the opposite actually, longtime OOTP player/baseball fan so Mogul probably wouldnt appeal as much but good to know to reccomend to friends bc OOTP can def be intimidating
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Apr 12, 2024 06:45
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So, what's your guys opinions on the games by https://strategygamestudio.com? Have anyone tried any of them yet?
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Apr 12, 2024 13:28
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ThisIsJohnWayne posted:Complexity isn't grog, warfare-y simulationism is. Can't be simulatory if you don't go to far too much effort to make the rules realistic. It's the earth portion with how it represents armies in particular that makes Terra Invicta not grog enough Come on, part of the essence of grog is far too much simulationist effort on one thing and complete abstraction on another, artillery changes performance depending on air pressure in the hex but we'll use the atoll invasion modelling for all ground combat, that's peak grog right there.
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Apr 12, 2024 13:46
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mllaneza posted:I'm not seeing a tooltip about how much the bonus is, but as Italy I've been consistently outshooting France and Austria-Hungary by a noticeable margin. It's specified in the manual. It's also possible you managed to get some other accuracy/fire control techs that neither of those have got yet, or they haven't upgraded their ships with the latest fire control, etc... Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Apr 12, 2024 |
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Apr 12, 2024 14:00
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SIGSEGV posted:Come on, part of the essence of grog is far too much simulationist effort on one thing and complete abstraction on another, artillery changes performance depending on air pressure in the hex but we'll use the atoll invasion modelling for all ground combat, that's peak grog right there. You wanna battle peak grog? Peak grog is I'll never admit to being wrong about something dumb and thus by the transitive I am still right!
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Apr 12, 2024 14:16
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d...drat!
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Apr 12, 2024 14:18
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lispy-goon posted:So, what's your guys opinions on the games by https://strategygamestudio.com? I've tried a couple, they are OK. It's a computerized board game, which is fine, just don't expect a Grigsby experience but more of a streamlined wargame.
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Apr 12, 2024 15:05
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SIGSEGV posted:Come on, part of the essence of grog is far too much simulationist effort on one thing and complete abstraction on another, artillery changes performance depending on air pressure in the hex but we'll use the atoll invasion modelling for all ground combat, that's peak grog right there. I like the one in WITE 2 where they just slap-on a flat "prior to 1944, Soviet artillery only requisitions 60% of its ammo, causing them to shoot less often" rule, overriding whatever else the Soviet player might be doing to concentrate their artillery SUs or making sure their logistics are properly set-up
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Apr 12, 2024 15:27
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mllaneza posted:I'm seeing a lot more enemy class names in bold text than I am seeing friendly ship names in bold text. There's a lot of things that could contribute to that, though I frequently like using gunnery training myself. There's definitely a point when it stops becoming worth it, though, as you start shifting to a carrier/missile focus and guns stop being the primary method of doing damage or killing ships. I think possibly it makes the most sense to use for smaller powers that don't have to bother about covering too many theaters and are going to have small fleets anyways due to a limited budget - making sure the few ships you DO have can punch above their weight can matter if you're carefully husbanding your fewer ships. Big colonial nations with lots of overseas commitments might have issues keeping up their overseas coverage and being ready to fight in multiple theaters if their ships are costing 30% more, on the other hand. So hypothetically I guess it's most valuable with Italy, Japan, Austria Hungary, China, and if you're willing to write off your colonies, Germany.
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Apr 12, 2024 15:33
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Kvlt! posted:How does baseball mogul compare to ootp? feel free to shoot me a pm if its not ok to post itt It's much simpler, only has the major leagues and a few players in the minors. No 40 man roster shenanigans. Less complex contracts. You can easily sim multiple seasons pretty quick. It's enjoyable, and hasn't changed much in years. It does have some real weird things like Barry Bonds being hardcoded to have lovely health at every age as a kludge to make him get hurt/retire in the mid-2000s versions, or how there's a list of extremely weird names like Bubba Boogerwad that can get created for fictional players in the right/wrong circumstances.
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Apr 12, 2024 15:34
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Pirate Radar posted:The engines list that on the current Gamepass version anyway. What do you right-click to get a table though? Right click on where it says "Drive," "Engine," "Radiator" etc. The only ones that are different are weapons, where you have to right click on the subcategory name like "Missiles" or "Laser." It's very very useful for comparing engines!
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Apr 12, 2024 15:36
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Yooper posted:I've tried a couple, they are OK. It's a computerized board game, which is fine, just don't expect a Grigsby experience but more of a streamlined wargame. I see, thanks mate. I'll try one out. *EDIT:* Do you have any recommendation?
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Apr 12, 2024 16:46
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lispy-goon posted:I see, thanks mate. I'll try one out. I have the Finland one and the Hawaii one. I liked them both for a quick fix. Can't really comment on any others.
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Apr 12, 2024 19:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:I like the one in WITE 2 where they just slap-on a flat "prior to 1944, Soviet artillery only requisitions 60% of its ammo, causing them to shoot less often" rule, overriding whatever else the Soviet player might be doing to concentrate their artillery SUs or making sure their logistics are properly set-up See this is how I distinguish between a good grog game and a bad grog game. All of these games contend with the problem that they can't actually simulate history because even if you somehow get a perfect computer model of reality the player has the benefit of hindsight and will avoid things they know were mistakes. Good grog games choose to lean into the abstraction in order to make a case that the thing they are building game mechanics around was important in reality. Sid Meier's Gettysburg! is perfect for this - the thesis is that morale was the key issue of the day, you build little morale blocks doing things that intuitively make your guys more likely to be willing to fight and suddenly your army is deployed in a way that looks extremely historical. Bad grog games do the Gary Grigsby thing where the dev is just trying to simulate everything and making a series of compromises to force things to happen the way they want.
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Apr 12, 2024 19:32
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I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me that WitP is a bad game?
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Apr 12, 2024 20:36
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ive never played witp bc it is just way too complex for my tastes but following the alilckhi pharnakes witp thread was some of the best entertainment a video game has given me so its a great game imo edit: as soon as i posted this i realized pharnakes was right above me lol. are you doing any other similar follow along witp games rn? or any other games?
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Apr 12, 2024 21:00
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This is why UoC2 is the best grog game 
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Apr 12, 2024 21:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:I like the one in WITE 2 where they just slap-on a flat "prior to 1944, Soviet artillery only requisitions 60% of its ammo, causing them to shoot less often" rule, overriding whatever else the Soviet player might be doing to concentrate their artillery SUs or making sure their logistics are properly set-up Yeah, i get why that exists, because indeed, soviet artillery suffered from an enormous amount of factors that made it chronically inefficient for how many tubes they had, particularly lacking forward observers and comms equipment, especially before 1944, but this is very much a kludge.
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Apr 12, 2024 21:17
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Pharnakes posted:I'm sorry, are you trying to tell me that WitP is a bad game? I'm not trying to tell you WitP is a bad game, I'm trying to tell people who can still be saved
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Apr 12, 2024 21:26
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