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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
It’s weird that the tutorial for Rome doesn’t tell you anything about how the senate works.

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
The game runs pretty well which is nice

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

mmkay posted:

Yeah, can someone do a quick rundown on it? None of the youtube videos I've watched played as Rome, so I was kind of confused why sometimes I get tyranny on DoW, sometimes not; and apparently now I'm stuck with perpetual Populists in power?

The senate needs to vote approval on Wars but I have no idea what effects it

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Nah even rich people historically went for governorships to grift hard.

Granted that was more once provincial thing, but moving the date up for that is understandable

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:

You say "make that work," but it's not like Alexander's conquests actually worked in real life, either. His empire almost immediately fell apart. So it should work how? In that it's technically possible to do, but is a tremendously bad idea that is doomed to end in a game over? But then... why?

The design target being Rome's conquests seems much saner to me.

I mean it fell apart because Alexander made literally no attempt to keep it together.

Alexander fell apart for the same reason a lot of kingdoms fell apart. No succession plan leads to civil war. It’s not special.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Fuligin posted:

I dunno where you're getting that impression. Alexander absolutely intended for his empire to hold together after death and made preparations for it; hence founding all those Alexandrias, encouraging intermarriage between Persians and Macedonians, etc. It was the speed of his death and the fact that Roxanna hadn't yet given birth that set the stage for the Diadochi to tear themselves to pieces.

Not trying to jump on you, people just take the "Alexander was a brash hothead who couldn't think beyond his next conquest" thing a little far


yeah hard agree with this. This is like, the era of map painting.

Literally none of those things matter to keep the empire together. It’s not like his empire fell back to the natives or old dynasties. Post Alexander was still ruled by Greeks, just many Greeks instead of one.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Fuligin posted:

I think I'm just failing to understand your thesis here. 'Multiple feuding kingdoms ruled by Macedonian elites' is pretty qualitatively different than 'united empire ruled by one Macedonian royal house.'

My point is that his empire really didn’t fall apart do to size or cultural differences. It fell apart the same reason a lot of kingdoms fell apart, with no succession plan the generals stepped into the void.

The intial argument was that Alexander’s kingdom fell apart because of how big it got and how quickly it happened. I don’t think that is particularly true

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
To be honest conquest shouldn’t be easy but holding historical wasn’t that hard before nationalism became a thing. You saw some rebellions, but regions didn’t have the communal ideal that started popping up in the 18th century. So you could conquer a foreign people and they mostly just accepted it. Because who cares which rich dudes are collecting your taxes?

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
People would be insanely annoyed if tech was random

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Average Bear posted:

Tech isn't random though. But I guess inventions are unlocked by tech. IDK the games a bit of a mess

No, the system proposed would be hiring advisors and hoping a tech pops.

Like CK2 uses the spymaster but without also being able to do it yourself

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
As far as I can tell the game isn’t broken.

It doesn’t even play that buggy

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Funky Valentine posted:

As much as I appreciate characters having a health bar so you can prepare for a succession properly, everyone being essentially immortal until they get cancer at 75 with no easy way to kill them off early results in some hellish years with a 1/1/0/3 ruler.


Wasn't the pre-CK2 business model "release broken thing, release expansions that broke more things, abandon game"?

EU3 was fine for all its existence but yeah CK1 and Vicky 1 were messes.

EU Rome worked fine but it barely had a game to be broken

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

reignonyourparade posted:

If you like paradox games as wargames and like classical antiquity you'll like it, but you're also a crazy person.

I hate to tell you this but for the most part they are wargames. Everything else they do is just a way to war more efficiently. Even CK2 which has probably the closest to a non military options.

If you have the patient of a saint

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Yeah as someone who played CK2 and EU4 on release they weren’t great.

Though I think CK2 is kind of shielded by the fact CK1 was a barely functioning mess of a game. Which made CK2 look like a well polished machine by comparison

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
MP makes sense as playtesting for most of the features, granted it’s harder to test AI with so many humans but I assume it’s not the only play testing they use

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
You should never ever trust a score aggregate. It’s mostly meaningless. Use only reviews that look for the same thing you do.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

zhuge liang posted:

People say it's meaningless because there's little reason to pick any particular character over another. You assign the guy with the highest finesse and lowest corruption and then forget about him for the rest of the game. There's remarkably little strategy to this choice in a strategy game.

There are lots of reasons to care about who you land in CK2. Do they have claims to press? Are they set to inherit anything? Do they have good traits or a bloodline? Will they remain loyal to your underaged heir? Maybe you want to roleplay a little and land your younger sons even though this is usually a bad idea? You can even choose not to land anyone at all and keep the duchy for yourself, which has its own pros and cons. You can just land whoever and not care about what you're doing, but the game will actually reward careful planning. There's a reason to care.

I mean I literally never cared about any of those things in CK2 and I played fine.

I tried once but it was way to tedious for so little reward I just went with best stats

Sometimes I dint even care about that

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Sydin posted:

I'd never recommend this game as a stepping stone because it would bore a new player to tears. The only people defending this game are those with preexisting paradox experience who are willing to put up with a clearly unfinished product because they know it'll get better.

If I wanted to introduce somebody new to paradox GS games, Id go straight to CK2.

I wouldn’t recommend CK2 but that’s because I don’t really care for it much.

Hell I like imperator more really

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Gamerofthegame posted:

"hello, I don't understand why you think this game is barebones and that we cut content. we made it the same way we make all our games, building ontop of the next one. all content in this game was built on from rome 1, a game ten years ago, please ignore that the EU series is more or less the same thing."

- johan

He’s 100% correct yeah.

I think nostalgia as effected people tho

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Flavius Aetass posted:

what does any of this mean

The thing that validates my opinion is correct while the thing that validates your opinion isn’t. In a nutshell.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
EU Rome could have been a good game had it not clearly fallen through the cracks of the change in Paradox structure.

On a base level EU Rome was a fine game that just needed more content. Something one half assed expansion couldn’t do

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Bohemian Nights posted:

Some weird choices have been made during stellaris' development process, but any iteration of stellaris has a leg up on imperator in that they were actually fun to play

Any?

Did you play the original release? It’s the most boring game to ever have been conceived

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
No e of the paradox threads are that active. Even CK isn’t exactly lively

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Chomp8645 posted:

People are complaining about Imperator because unlike CK2 or Stellaris or EU4 it's real boring. Hope this helps.

CK2 is insanely boring unless you are into role play or insane min maxing

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Randallteal posted:

CK2 can definitely work as a dollhouse kinda like the Sims where you're filling in the gaps with your imagination. I usually have some kind of meta story in my head while playing even if it's not always conscious, like imagining a historian telling the story of what's happening in the game from some point in the future.

Yeah that’s what i mean by roleplaying, as far as an actual game goes it’s kind of a mess and not very good.

But the role play poo poo is also what makes it unique so I can’t blame anyone for liking it for that

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Arrhythmia posted:

Rome was easily able to crush Carthage: hence, why there was only one Punic war.

This isn’t really a good point. The first Punic war was long and brutal but Rome got everything they possibly could have wanted. Ancient wars generally weren’t to the death especially amount decently sized powers

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Arrhythmia posted:

You make it sound like the second Punic war didn't involve Rome's biggest defeat until Teutoberg.

e: In fact, I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the second Punic war. That one ends with Rome's hegemony over the entire western Mediterranean; the first Punic war only had them grab Sicily.

No I’m talking about the first Punic war as that is what the post originally was talking about. Rome could not have realistically governed North Africa and They desperately did not want oversea possessions.

The islands didn’t count for reasons.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Yeah imperator is in a pretty good place now and got better much faster than Stellaris but I think there is some rewriting of history going on for stellaris that tends to happen as time passes.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
That’s all paradox games. Which is their strongest feature.

The latest expansion seems to have turned public opinion even if the bitterness of this thread still lurks a bit

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean em arguing only makes sense as a tactic on a paid product.

I doubt people are going to actively buy the game based on a patch unless it’s amazing

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Why would you want to form the Pontus kingdom but not start as Pontus

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

trapped mouse posted:

I don't want to play as loving Pontus!!

Ah your trolling, everyone loves Pontus

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I actually like the fact rebels are hard to prevent. It’s one of Crusader kings biggest problems rebellion is insanely easy to stop

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

AnEdgelord posted:

Stellaris, but there its flipped. Space combat is interesting and ground combat is an afterthought.

Same for Star Wars empire at war

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

SnoochtotheNooch posted:

I honestly doubt it. I've never played vicky but if its like I:R I prob wouldnt be impressed.

I have thousands of hours in EU4, CK2, CK3.

Youll look for similar strategies in rome and youll notice that for most part theres no point to follow those strategies.
Managing a council is not really a thing. Characters seem more like Barbie and Ken dolls that you can goof around with like an adult manchild rather than having strategic importance, or interesting gameplay.

AFAICT You just need to blob as fast as you can and be faster than any other blob. Theres some mechanics that float around that seem important like integration, and stability but again, I ignored them and did fine as rome.

I will say the way theyve redesigned the military is a potentially really good idea. Having a supply train is a potentially interesting mechanic and adds some ~~realism~~. Also more ~~realism~~ is that your troops are pulled from the province population rather than just a standing army.

Ah so it’s like CK3 now

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean that is what paradox games are. You make your own fun. The core loop may be to blob but you can do what you want.

If they tried to force you to role play the game would collapse on itself as players like to role play...on their own terms

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
It should be said cities changing hands happened a lot. Most summaries don’t talk about it because it happened so much it would get tedious and in the end it didn’t really matter

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
To be fair no one knows what they are doing in Vicky 2

And it wouldn’t help anything anyway

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Pontus

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