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I don't mind that because so much of this show is about vicious cycles. Repeating the same issues we've already seen is just another representation of that.
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Aug 30, 2020 22:20
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I think this current arc's heading into its end for sure. But I also think you could get at least a season or two out of a Lawrence-LaRusso Dojo and what it has to go through on its upswing. Any other season of the current status quo, though, and I'll scream.
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Sep 5, 2020 16:22
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Miyagi-do strikes me as an incredibly intimate, personal thing. Daniel neither has the time or the know-how to actually run a dojo. Even having, what, 5 students? Lead to him completely neglecting his business and the people in his life. It also turns out that if you aren't already on board, wax-on wax-off is an incredibly frustrating and tricky to understand style to market. Finally, Daniel might be passionate about karate, but he founded the dojo out of spite, not necessarily out of love. In general, that's going to cloud and compromise your vision. In contrast, Cobra Kai is direct, straightforward, and teaches you a lot about the techniques you're using. Even if the philosophy behind Miyagi-do is a lot nobler than the one behind Cobra Kai, Johnny (in the absence of Kreese) is arguably the more effective teacher, especially as you upscale the number of students. Daniel can give his personal touch to the problem students like Robbie and Demitri, while Johnny can handle the large day to day groups.
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Sep 6, 2020 15:41
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I think Daniel's legitimately traumatized. And a major part of this show seems to be that pain and trauma caused by others can make even good people do some bad, bad things.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:26
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Yeah, I think the worst thing Daniel did as a dad was take away his daughter's phone and computer during a time when she needed them, which lead to a lot of Season 1's tensions. If anything, he seems like an overly permissive dad. Look at how their son acts!
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Sep 7, 2020 02:54
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I think a 3 to get Johnny and Daniel on the same page followed by and a 4 to prove they're ending the series in a better place than they started is a smart plan. A Season 5'd undoubtedly stretch it, though.
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Oct 24, 2020 05:44
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punk rebel ecks posted:Just finished Season 3. Tory also scarred her, badly, and the whole conflict lead to her current boyfriend paralyzing the guy she still loved in a horrifying karate fight. Winning isn't some magic get-out-of-PTSD-free card. Hell, you can see the same traumas running deep with how Daniel literally can't get over the Cobra Kai incidents, albeit to a less pronounced degree. I don't think Stingray needed to appear this season, tbh. I'll admit I felt Aisha's absence bad, and she could've been a counterpoint to Kreese's pruning of Hawk's other friends by making the intentional choice to leave on camera. But Stingray's bit was finished and I don't think he would've filled any role in his absence the mouse feeding and bully fights didn't already fill. I could see him getting a cameo or nod in Season 4, showing up to a fight that doesn't have any time for him, but that's really all that's left for him in my books. I'm torn on the Johnny-Daniel and Johnny-Robbie conflicts staying kind of stagnant. I don't really think either stayed stagnant? But they definitely didn't advance as much as they could've. I think each conflict with them leads them trusting and appreciating the other more, even if it always ends poorly, and the fact that they teamed up by choice instead of as a last resort shows that. They were definitely in opposition way less than they were in Season 2, and I kind of liked the idea of Ally literally representing the past telling them that it's okay to start living for the future. Part of me does agree that them walking into a Double Dragon level would've been a good point for a turnaround, if only because dear god I was rooting for them so hard at that point, but I also think they had that little bit of growing they needed to do first. Johnny-Robbie (and Daniel-Robbie, for that matter) are a lot harder to put, IMO. Part of me wishes they had more time to explore these relationships, but part of me feels like the isolation was half of the point. There are several episodes at a time where the show just forgets about Robbie, and hell, I think the characters do too. Daniel seems content with the idea of letting him be locked up with a lighter sentence. Sam and Johnny have a lot on their plates and outside of a few token attempts by Johnny, never try to visit him. He says he doesn't want Johnny around, and their interactions always lead to him being hurt one way or another, but the isolation hurts just as much. If the cast had active relationships progressing with Robbie, I don't think he'd have that same isolation that lead to him falling under Kreese's sway. Honestly, I think if it was any other show, I'd be with you on wanting those relationships progressed faster. However, I think the core of Cobra Kai is ultimately the idea of cycles of trauma and violence, and those relationships being so stagnant for so long is another symptom of that long-term hurt. The show certainly isn't afraid to pick up the pace on a relationship when the story calls for it. Look at Hawk, whose arc was very clear, consistent, and speedy throughout the season. He saw Cobra Kai as him and his friends against the world, and he clung so tightly to that idea that he didn't realize Cobra Kai had flipped his friends and the world's positions until he was the only one left. When he's seeing his old bullies beating the poo poo out of his old friends, and he's realizing he's on the bullies' side, he finally has that moment of realization and lets go. That's a problem that solves itself a lot more easily and naturally than Robbie's long-term hedgehog's dilemma as he either lets isolation hurt him or lets people disappoint him, or Daniel and Johnny's old grudges being exacerbated by the past refusing to let them move on.
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Jan 3, 2021 07:30
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MiddleOne posted:It would help if Johnny didn't once again de-prioritise him in favour of his substitute son when it really mattered. Daniel similarly also did what he thought was right, but by forcing it upon Robbie he torched whatever trust they had built up and there was no recovering from that. Exactly! If someone hurts Robbie, he'll reject them no matter what they say or do, even if they're just trying to help or give him acceptance. If Robbie disappoints someone or lets them down, then he'll run away and refuse to hear anything otherwise. Frankly, I don't think anything Daniel, Johnny, or Sam can do can help him at this point. Poor boy needs therapy, bad. As for de-prioritizing, pretty much. Everyone pretty much de-prioritized Robbie for Miguel. And that's kind of understandable when Miguel is literally in dire straits in the hospital, but it still stings deeply in Robbie's perception. punk rebel ecks posted:I mean is he really sabotaging things here? His dad constantly fucks everything up every time and while I understood what Daniel did it's a very natural response for Robbie to burn that bridge. His default response to Johnny ever showing up is "I don't want you around, go away." And that's a seriously understandable response, considering everything! But it's also a response that makes rebuilding bridges hard, and further leaves him alone. It also doesn't help that, yeah, Robbie's usually right about everything. Yes, Sam and Miguel are still pretty blatantly into each other. Yes, Johnny is going to gently caress up, then get cold feet and run away. The Bee fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jan 3, 2021 |
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Jan 3, 2021 07:52
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punk rebel ecks posted:Did anyone else find it weird that the school bullies were still bulking the kids after the kids became martial arts masters? That was after Kreese personally handpicked them to join Cobra Kai, right? I can see why they're bigheaded, especially after everyone's reaction to seeing them join up was dawning horror in their eyes.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:How so? They were, but their handpicked scouting by Kreese likely made them cocky and the students' stunned reaction only sealed the deal. At least enough of them lost their fights for the bullies to replace a significant portion of Cobra Kai, too. I think to a good degree that was the psychological shock of having the people who made their lives hell suddenly showing up in their safe space with their own teacher's endorsement, but it probably left the bullies feeling pretty invincible by that point. They also saved a good bit of their bullying for Demetri, who even if he didn't have a broken arm is one of the last to start to defending himself on most days. And that's before we even get to the school's rules against physical contact, which probably make things a lot safer for bullies that know how to straddle the line than the all out open karate warfare of Season 2.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:22
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Simone Magus posted:Karate kid 3 is a great weird fever dream of a movie wherein Ralph macchio is too fat and on cocaine to even do any fight scenes And yet still put his foot down and insisted not to be filmed as the romantic interest to a 16 year old girl, which probably makes him one of the least douchey people in Hollywood.
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Jan 6, 2021 05:42
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WHY BONER NOW posted:Yeah exactly, the show just shuffles characters around. Sooner or later Daniel is going to team up with kreese for some reason Secret word to activate his Cobra Kai programming from Terry Silver. Mike Barnes, Karate's Bad Boy, swoops in go beat the sense back into him. Then Daniel, Johnny, Chozen, and Mike team up to fight Mecha-Kreese.
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Jan 9, 2021 18:59
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MiddleOne posted:I found Tori being this revenge terminator in Sam's dream only for that to then literally happen again was just too funny. She's literally out to kill the poor girl. Now that the rest of the sympathetic characters are all in one place, I feel like we might get some deeper dives into Tory and Robbie for Season 4.
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Jan 13, 2021 16:27
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Okay, there are a lot of ways I expected this to go. The villain of a threequel using a shitton of unresolved issues and the superpower of being fabulously wealthy to finally deliver Kreese his comeuppance while becoming an even bigger villain? Not what I expected, and I can't wait for him to call in karate's bad boy Mark Barnes as an enforcer. I feel like among the kids, Robbie and Tori were almost the real protagonists of this season? Miguel felt kinda on the sideline, which plays into his feeling of listlessness and unsureness in his role in life, and Sam definitely spent a lot of this season more as an antagonist than anything. I really hope her and Tori put aside their differences and go on a two-woman power trip when they find out how the All Valley was rigged.
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Jan 1, 2022 04:50
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Charity Porno posted:My favorite part of this show is when a character outside of the situation comments on how insane and stupid it all is I think my favorite part has to be that Daniel's wife has been right the entire time . A stupid karate tournament isn't the way to solve these kids' problems. She gets sucked into the idea when she's afraid for her daughter's life, but when Kreese tries his usual psychological manipulation tactics, instead of it throwing her off of her karate game it just gets her trying a different tactic. And that different tactic actually makes more difference for Tory than any of the rigged trophies Silver can give her. The adults of the Valley need therapy, the kids of the Valley need their socio-economic problems being tackled at the root, and everyone should be appreciating karate at their own pace when they're no longer being turned into child soldiers over it. Phenotype posted:Full season: I had a good time with this season but I think the end got a little sloppy. I got that Miguel was going through some emotional stuff over the last few episodes, but it didn't seem really clear why. I mean, okay, he's worried about his relationship with Sam and not being able to afford to go to a private college, but is it really going to be that upsetting for a kid to find out his mom and his sensei/father figure are getting together? The back injury was out of left field, but not as much as him just disappearing and leaving to find his real father -- have they even mentioned this guy before? I think Miguel is a further note on that same thesis. The problems these kids are wrestling with are a lot bigger than a karate tournament can solve. Dude's already had two big impactful arcs, and for an 80s karate movie, this would be the triumphant end of his arc. He's overcome a lack of confidence and literally defeated paralysis, and now he's going to win the All Valley but as a good guy for a change. Except, that's all fine for Miguel the Karate Kid. For Miguel, the Human Kid With Actual Hopes And Ambitions Off Of The Karate Mats . . . he's really not fulfilled. Karate's gone from the escape from his stresses to the source of them. His ex and his girlfriend keep getting into explosive karate fights. All the adults in his life are completely consumed by thinking about this great karate war. He can't practice his new style anymore without his sensei getting really territorial about it. He can't practice his old style anymore without his sensei making things awkward and treating him differently because of their somewhat father-son relationship. And Johnny, delirious over being drunk and punch-drunk simultaneously, doesn't even commit on that father-son relationship right after getting Miguel's hopes up with it. The narrative kind of sidelines Miguel, taking it for granted that he's okay and instead focusing on everyone else's interactions with him. And that hits hard when we realize, no, he isn't and hasn't been okay.
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Jan 1, 2022 20:12
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Medullah posted:The thing I really like about this show is that there is never a straight antagonist or protagonist. Well, except Silver. I'd argue if we can say Kreese isn't a straight antagonist, than neither is Silver. Kreese and Silver bring out the worst in each other. Kreese was ready to give up in Karate Kid 3, and a Silver fueled by cocaine and revenge convinced him to stay in the game. And that dream of a global Cobra Kai, that belief that they haven't lost the war, lit the fire under Kreese that never went out. And when he came back into Silver's life, he returned the favor. And in the process, he created a far greater monster than he ever was, someone willing to take the motto of Cobra Kai and turn it on himself. Silver knows he's weak, he knows he's broken, he knows he's hopelessly devoted to Kreese. Not only does everyone in this show have a weakness, but they also have people they hold close and are willing to risk anything for. Hell, I'd argue half of the Robbie-Miguel-Sam-Tory drama is the fact that each love triangle still cares for all of its participants, even if they've moved past seeing them as romantic prospects. In a show like that, the man willing to cut his object of admiration out of his life in such a brutal manner is dangerous on an unparalleled level. The best part? I don't even think this was a rejection of Kreese. I think this was a further statement of devotion. There's Kreese the man, and Kreese the message and icon. What better way to prove his loyalty to what Kreese represents than to sacrifice the man himself on its altar? punk rebel ecks posted:Finished the season. I feel like Sam's more similar to her father than either wants to admit. For someone who preaches defense, flexibility, and reactivity, whenever he's feeling bullied or pushed into a corner, Daniel is really quick to go on the offensive. He may see being Cobra Kai as a misstep in his life that he moved past, but I don't know if he ever did. He still strikes first and strikes hard without mercy, and his reaction to compromises is nearly always telling the other guy (usually Johnny) to move first. Is it any surprise that Sam has the same mindset? The hostility she's shown Tory reminds me a lot of the hostility Daniel showed Johnny at every turn, both in Karate Kid 1 and in the earliest seasons of Cobra Kai. And you can see that mindset trickled down to how the other Miyagi-Do and Eagle Fang students handled Kenny. Instead of going "dude, why are you wearing their shirt, they're dangerous bullies," and maybe steering him onto a better path, they took advantage of outnumbering and outsizing him. They took the fight to their "enemy," when he was really just a poor, lost soul getting drafted into a war too big for him. Come to think of it, is it any coincidence that the series whose main antagonists are Vietnam vets is all about scared, lost children being drafted into a war too big for them? A war that, even when they return from the All-Valley, they've proven incapable of putting behind them? Johnny and Daniel broke their students. Kreese and Silver broke Johnny and Daniel. And the war broke Kreese and Silver. All on the backs of young men clinging to machismo, helplessness, and socio-economic conditions far bigger than they are.
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Jan 1, 2022 21:32
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Well, yeah, but it's more fun to analyze media than it is to just watch it and go "ah, yes, this was a thing I've seen." Especially when this show is equal parts an earnest embracing of 80s shlock and a deep look into how said 80s shlock has impacted everyone involved. I mean, a recurring plot throughout this season was literally Terry Silver's fall from the man who escaped his past to a cackling 80s supervillain, acting even worse than he did when he was "hopped up on coke and stalking a teenager." I can find that fascinating and tragic while also laughing my rear end off at the catalyst being him karate kicking a wine bottle in half.
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Jan 1, 2022 22:32
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PneumonicBook posted:To the show's credit it's gotten me very close to watching Karate Kid 3, which is a terrible movie based on everything Ive ever read. Honestly, same. I'm so enamored with Silver's performance and arc this season that I want to see the godawful shlocky movie it came from.
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Jan 2, 2022 04:54
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BiggerBoat posted:Finished it up and it was good for the most part. I'll give it this, the show is addictive as hell. Honestly, I felt like this was a little less over the top than the seasons where you literally had public karate riots breaking out.
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Jan 2, 2022 19:43
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Flesnolk posted:I remain very surprised that neither Johnny, nor Daniel, nor any of their students seemed to have any interest in competitive karate outside LA, or professional kickboxing or something. I remember when I first watched season 1 I expected Daniel to have won more accolades than "won two lovely point tournaments in the eighties, became a used car salesman with the rest of his gabagools and gabagals" I'm not too surprised, to be honest. Daniel learned karate to fight back against bullies. Johnny learned karate to be a badass. Kreese learned karate because he never left the jungles of 'nam. With the exception of their local tournament / proxy battleground of the karate wars, a drive towards organized competition doesn't really seem like something any of these mentors is passing down.
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Jan 2, 2022 23:30
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BiggerBoat posted:This is the correct reaction for him to have I think. I think a lot of characters are having that reaction now, and I'm kinda excited to see where that lands us next season. It doesn't feel like an accident to me that, past the initial boost in confidence and competence, most positive change we've seen from the series hasn't been from karate anymore.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:09
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Stingray's life would be seriously improved if he took some karate classes for adults, or maybe went to an MMA gym or something. Unfortunately, he's stuck in an 80s movie, so I don't think those exist.
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Jan 3, 2022 23:44
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I like the idea of the cast rotating in and out. We really don't need a giant dramatic arc for Season 2's attempted-wacky in-practice-creepy comic relief manchild, and getting away from the Valley is clearly the best thing that could've happened to Aisha. Their roles in this season were perfect in my books.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:30
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Dawgstar posted:While it's good they didn't go that way, I did find the Chuck E. Cheese but with real people restaurant a bit weird, but they could well be a thing, I don't know. There was an A/T thread a while back about a goon who worked as a birthday party princess. I figured this kinda thing was similar.
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Jan 4, 2022 19:44
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Every mentor figure Cobra Kai is doing one of two things, when you think about it. Either they're trying to prevent their own traumas from being passed down to the next generation, or they're trying a little too hard to live up to their mentor figures. A lot of the show's conflict comes from seeing these motivations contest with one another, as well as the fact that the needs of their students don't always mesh with what they've been through.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:04
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killer crane posted:Except Terry. Terry just wants money from those franchises. I think Terry really was trying to live up to Kreese. But less Kreese the man, more Kreese the message. He struck first, struck hard, and had no mercy, even against the man that had him wrapped around his finger. And in a strange, hosed-up way, I'd like to think Terry believes Kreese'd be proud of him.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:44
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I almost feel like Daniel does things Johnny's more often than Johnny does things Daniel's way, tbh. Whenever they find common ground, it usually seems to be when doing things the Johnny way. Hell, Daniel was actually really enjoying his big sweaty testosterone-fueled warehouse workout with Johnny. However, when they do disagree, Daniel ends up being the more hardline and sanctimonious of the two. Its an interesting contrast, where he's both the more and less flexible of the duo.
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Jan 31, 2022 07:01
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TheCenturion posted:Daniel has always been an impulsive hothead. Johnny is actually more of a real mentor than Daniel is; all Daniel can do is regurgitate Miyagi-isms. Johnny actually learns, grows, adapts, and is trying to be better. Honestly, yeah. Daniel's had some good moments as a mentor, but I think he only really does good in one on one circumstances. He was actually able to give Demitri, Robbie, and Miguel some really good material to work with by connecting with them on that individual level. However, as soon as you expand the scope, or give him a student that doesn't learn the Miyagi Way, he starts floundering. And Mr. Miyagi himself warned about that! He even said one day, Daniel would need to do things his own way. However, Daniel's so intent on believing that Miyagi's way is the only way that he just can't make that jump.
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Feb 1, 2022 05:40
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Guy A. Person posted:Johnny's moments with Sam specifically are a highlight of the tourney for me, even just the nod and the shout he gives out when she wins her "first" match. But yeah the shuffling of Hawk to Miyagi-do and Miguel bowing out really puts Johnny and Eagle Fang on the sideline for a ton of the tournament, which was kind of the point of my last post. If they had shown Miguel to be dominant prior to his injury and not shot EF to seventh place after the skills tournament it might have made it more balanced instead of just feeling like EF was an embarrassing third wheel to real contenders. Johnny could have also given more actual advice to Sam during her fight outside of just agreeing with Daniel. Honestly more "real" coaching like "Tory drops her left shoulder before doing a high kick" would have really improved stuff over all the "believe in yourself and trust your dreams!" stuff we got. I think it would've sold the ideological conflict (and the fallacies inherent to it) better if we got to see the actual karate science behind it, too. Show how Daniel's advice keeps Sam from losing points, but Johnny's is essential for her getting points. It'd add a bit more strength to the coaching scenes that was lacking in "I tried offense but it isn't working  " "Have you tried defense?" "Oh yeah!"
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Feb 4, 2022 00:12
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Oh, don't get me wrong. The clash of philosophy and mindset is friggin great, and part of why I love Cobra Kai so much. I just wish the characters didn't sound like muppets by taking that theme and making it a little too blunt. Even something like "I'm trying, but I can't get in there." "Be patient and let the opportunities come to you" would've sounded better without getting too deep into karate technobabble.
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Feb 5, 2022 03:34
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Guy A. Person posted:Daniel's arc is pretty hilarious in retrospect because in the first season he massively overreacts to Cobra Kai reopening, thinking that it is going to poison the brains of children and turn them into psychopathic bullies. As of season 5, it's clear he was maybe being a bit too optimistic in his fears of a teenage karate armageddon. I think Daniel's problems is ultimately that he's right, but his means of coping boils down to kicking the problem in the face until it stops. Nearly everyone whose life he touches sees it improved; Robbie and Miguel thrive under his tenure in the brief moments they work together, Dimitri goes from snarky bystander to legit badass, Chozen and Mike Barnes both turn their lives around thanks in part to him snapping them out of their bad paths. But he can never enjoy any of it because a neverending procession of karate villains keeps triggering his traumas and dragging him further into the dirt. Season 1 Daniel was misguided but well meaning. Then every further season, Daniel's fears are proven increasingly right, and his only equipment in dealing with them are a combo of his natural hotheaded aggression and Miyagi's lessons. I don't think Daniel's focus on karate passivity and defense are out of step with his arc. He pushes those views, ironically, very aggressively! He's never the one being defensive himself.
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Sep 13, 2022 06:03
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MAGA? Nah. Redditor? Abso-loving-lutely. I will say, him Judasing may have been the most on point decision the showrunners have ever made.
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Sep 18, 2022 03:47
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Because if you're doing karate to beat some enemy, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Now they can finally embrace self improvement, growth, and spirited yet honorable competition instead of Californian karate gang warfare.
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Jan 25, 2023 07:12
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