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Shin Gihren's on Easy eventually gets easier. In fact, it gets downright childishly easy by late game, giving you far more money and resources than the game rightly knows what you should do with it and an AI that goes all the way from hyper-aggressive Chad to putting up less of a fight than MoA's Very Easy AI. I think what makes the game feel so bad is that they really upended the normal flow of the game compared to past GG games. There was a very concerted effort to make the early game much more difficult by buffing a lot of key early-game Federation units (the Depp Rog really is an absolute terror to all of Zeon's early-game forces, the GM Striker is an ungodly good mid-game unit for the Federation and will one-shot Gouf-Bs at full health if they land both melee hits, and Fisheyes trade really well with almost all of Zeon's amphibious suits), making it take a ton of time to produce and land reinforcements safely on Earth/transport them from Odessa, and the AI's general level of aggressiveness given that at that point you are on relatively equal resource footing. Once you take North America as Zeon though, the game is pretty much busted at that point (at least on Easy). The balance of resources starts to tip heavily in your favor (from what I can tell, you get more and more money and resources from territory you own if your domestic opinion is high and said territory isn't being constantly taken and re-taken, which is pretty easy to do when you have a chain of successful offensives), and the AI becomes positively anemic about reinforcing any of its bases until you're already there. It loves suiciding Birminghams into whatever force you've assembled outside of Luna 2 (which is probably an immense waste of supply for them), and the only unit they seem to have an affinity for building are Fisheyes. At that point, whatever force you built to take North America is probably incredibly beastly (a stack of quality Aces in Gouf Customs and Efreets is nigh unstoppable on Earth) and the game just becomes an absolute steamroll. In fact, that feels like the game's primary issue - everything snowballs (wins and losses) and there isn't a great way to get it to stop once its rolling. It also makes the flow of events completely nonsensical. You have to be trying hard not to tech up in any meaningful way in order to not have Doms by the time Ramba Ral's event chain fires off. Hell, by the time Operation V fired off (which it only does after you've taken most of Earth), I had Gelgoog Jaegers and Galbaldy Alphas (not to mention that I had already taken Side 7 for Zeon) and the Federation was already yielding several advanced variants of the Guntank/Guncannon/Gundam. It just doesn't feel true to what we know about the OYW to have Zeon absolutely slog through taking Earth when MS are supposed to be leagues ahead of whatever the Federation can field, or for Full Armor Alexes to be running around even though the base RX-78-2 hasn't been 'finished' yet. All in all, I like it better now that I got past the early game bullshit that it threw up at me (it's still not great). They also did some really cool things with pilots and commands to the point where Gyans are a really competitive option vs. Gelgoogs for once (if you have an Ace with really high Command and melee attack stats, you can issue a command that is basically "Charge!" - it skips the shooting phase for both you and the enemy entirely and just moves straight to melee, and the insane melee damage and accuracy of Gyan variants means that you are going to kill whatever you're attacking). You can actually stack MAs as well - 3 Zakrellos is a quite fun anti-warship option in Space, and you can pile 2 Elmeths in a single stack which can really amp up their survivability/firepower. But the overall flow and structure of the game is just so... bad compared to past ones that it's hard to recommend/enjoy if you already like and enjoy Menace of Axis V. I love all the cool things you can do with the Ace pilot revamp, but they're just bogged down by so many other design decisions that it just ends up being disappointing. Another nitpick - while they did raise the unit cap to 300 from MoA's 250, the base 'stack' for units is 6 (so they effectively doubled the stack size from 3 to 6). As a result, it can feel very difficult to credibly project force both in Space and on the Ground since you effectively have fewer units to do so. This isn't a problem on Easy since once you've beaten down the AI it is no longer relevant, but I can definitely see it being a huge problem on higher difficulties when the AI is still able to compete through the mid-to-late game. Edit: I think the game's unit selection algorithm is pretty basic - it will produce the suit that deals the most damage efficiently in terms of cost/resources that it can produce the fastest (and is appropriate for the current environment) until it hits a certain amount of them/depending on the pressure that they're currently facing (I feel like the game will produce units that take a bit longer if you're not in the base proper). Also, if water is available then aquatic units get priority. This seems to explain why the game loves GM Strikers and Fisheyes - GM Strikers can be produced in a single turn and they can theoretically deal 220 damage in a single melee string (but they need to be piloted by an Ace or be in a unit with a great commander before they'll use the second melee weapon, the claw shield - but on paper it's 220 damage with both scythe strikes and the melee shield strike!). Fisheyes are aquatic units, can deal 18-108 damage at ranges 1-3 with their gun and can hit for 90 damage in melee (fun note - you don't get the chance to melee back if your suit lives through their melee attack, but they can counter you in melee if they survive - they seem to follow MA rules, but only when convenient for them). They are incredibly efficient in terms of cost/damage/time, hence why they might be getting prioritized. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 17:10 on May 19, 2022 |
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May 16, 2022 15:29
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Thank you for these recaps. Do you think you'll try an ace or CCA era campaign?
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May 16, 2022 17:43
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Arbite posted:Thank you for these recaps. Do you think you'll try an ace or CCA era campaign? I'll definitely try them - from what I've been reading, it seems like the game is balanced with those experiences in mind rather than the grand strategy game that's standard in most GG games. To that end, I ought to give Shin Gihren's an honest shot at what it's trying to do differently from past games.
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May 16, 2022 20:31
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I finished the baseline (Gihren) Zeon campaign in Shin Gihren's Greed this past weekend. Compared to other GG games, it definitely ended with a whimper - not a bang. After positioning my forces near Jaburo, the Federation sent forces out piecemeal to try and stop my troops from moving into Jaburo once Operation British 2 fired off. It did not succeed - at least as the Federation on Easy, the computer seems dead-set on building carriers/capital ships instead of MS. While the White Base line of ships is indeed powerful and deadly (and capital ships definitely received a buff in Shin's compared to past games - they can hit rather hard and somewhat reliably when they're helmed by a decent ace), they are not very powerful and deadly when they're up against Xamels and Gelgoog Cannons being piloted by Aces. Needless to say, they were shot out of the sky rather quickly and rather unceremoniously. This left nothing more than a token force inside Jaburo, which was rendered even more token by Operation British 2. At least in past games, the AI on Very Easy is enough of a sport to cheat itself a ton of resources so that it can put up a solid defensive force for the final battle. Not so in Shin's. The only thing it seems to do is buy a shitload of Fisheyes and nothing else which, as I mentioned earlier, is just annoying at that point in the game. I will admit that the AI - or rather, General Revil - did do something cheeky and used the GP02 to nuke my forces twice. Granted, Revil wasn't piloting the Physalis itself but it is pretty shocking to think that he was super OK with using nukes in Jaburo at this point (and Revil was indeed alive at this point as I had not used the Solar Ray on the Great Degwin). So I decided to move onto my next campaign to see how it worked. And I chose...  Tem Ray! When you play the smaller-scale campaigns like this, then you realize that these are the kinds of modes that they decided to balance the game around rather than the traditional grand strategy of GG games past. They definitely did a lot more to differentiate these campaigns from the grand strategy ones found in MoA - in MoA, Tem Ray's faction has access to all MS, but only has access to pilots that were also engineers. That being said, it's still the same grand strategy campaign at the core just with minor tweaks. In Shin Gihren's, Tem Ray's campaign is very different. From the get-go, you do not have any control over what the Federation is doing. The AI is controlling the Federation and you are controlling a very small part of it - namely, the research. Your job as Tem Ray is simple - pursue Operation V. The only resource you have to worry about is money, but any plans that you research/refine can and will be used by the AI as it produces units to fight Zeon. This is actually where some of your experience in the Grand Campaign comes in handy - when you know that the Federation AI is going to spam Dep Roggs, you definitely want to take the time to refine the baseline plans for the Dep Rogg (e.g., enhancing its attack, movement, hit points, etc.) so that it's even better at wiping out Zakus than it already is. Once you research the RX-78-2 though, the game kicks into a new phase. Char attacks Side 7 and you have a choice - you can either attempt to secure as many Operation V materials as possible (the canon route, which the game is very clear will result in an early end) or say "gently caress it", board the Prototype Gundam, and fight off the Zakus alongside Amuro. That marks the beginning of the next phase of the game - now not only are you in charge of the Federation's research, you also have to get the Gundams and White Base to Jaburo (because you didn't secure other Operation V materials, you don't get the Guncannon or the Guntank - but let's be honest, having two Gundams is much better, as unlike with the G-3 there are next to zero performance differences between the Proto Gundam and the base Gundam). This part is pretty easy because despite Tem Ray... not being a great pilot (and you definitely don't want his suit to get destroyed or that's a Game Over), the Prototype Gundam is more than able to shred F-type Zakus and even Char in his Zaku. Also, did I mention that you also get Amuro? You also get Amuro, and he is very good at mulching Aces even when he's low-level (so long as he's in the RX-78-2 Gundam). This part is definitely more of an introduction to the new phase of the game. Enjoy their father-son bonding time while it lasts because... Once you get White Base to Jaburo, the game opens up. Revil gives you a huge promotion for seeing Operation V through to completion and safeguarding White Base and the Gundams until they can get to Jaburo and the Federation's MS research can continue (you can still continue it even before you land in Jaburo, but landing in Jaburo gets you the plans to the RX-78-2 and White Base as well as a huge increase in resources and bonus tech levels). He understands that Tem Ray's work is going to win the OYW for the Federation, so why not promote him to be in charge of his own unit? Hence, the next phase of the game. Now you're in charge of your own little military force, which at the start is just White Base, the Proto Gundam, the base Gundam, Tem Ray, and the three pilots from The Blue Destiny (Amuro gets drafted by the Federation as does Bright, so your only good pilot at the moment is Yuu Kajima). However, you can spend resources to acquire control over any unit/pilot on the map and this is how you start to build up your little military force. Now though, you've got to balance your resources between the Federation's research efforts (which you still control and where you will probably have the most impact in the grand campaign) as well as directing your own military force to participate in key battles. Tem Ray's squad looks like it's going to be a lot more fun than the base campaign, that's for certain. This is one area where I might not recommend that you play it on Easy to start - the Federation AI is super-aggressive in terms of its movement and its production especially compared to Zeon and it is 100% going to steamroll the game to the point where there's really not much for you to do. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 16:09 on May 24, 2022 |
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May 23, 2022 19:21
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Trip Report: Tem Ray's campaign finished, started Revil's campaign. Tem Ray's Campaign: So... yeah. Setting the difficulty to Easy seemed like a good idea at the time - the Federation AI did a really good job steamrolling Zeon on Earth - but it turns out the Federation AI is pants-on-head dumb when it comes to Space battles. The game's algorithm for the AI choosing which units to produce has to be 'which unit has the highest attack power that I'm able to produce?' assuming a 100% hit rate on all of its weapons. As a result, the Federation AI churns out nothing but capital ships nonstop and will only bother to throw in a MS or two if the ship has hangar space and there are some MS laying around the base gathering dust. It will generally make a beeline for producing Gundams whenever they're available, as Gundams do have pretty high attack power on paper as well. This can make it very frustrating when you're playing Tem Ray, as the Federation AI has boatloads more resources than you do and if you don't start building Gundams as soon as you've researched them, the AI is going to produce all of them the next turn and throw them on ships at random. The cost of acquiring an already-built MS off of the AI comes at quite the premium as well, so you aren't really served by waiting and saving up resources to buy them off the AI because it is extremely cost-prohibitive. It will also never recycle units that are left on Earth after they've successfully retaken Earth, so the AI has a ton of its unit cap space taken up by Fisheyes and every flavor of Ground-only GMs. Zeon's AI does not have this problem. Will they produce capital ships? Absolutely, but they will also produce a ton of their advanced MS when available and because Gyans have really high attack power, Zeon's AI loves to build them. Gyans are also extremely hard counters to capital ships, and guess what the Federation AI has a ton of? Also, since you've taken Earth, the Zeon AI sees no need to waste unit cap space on units it can't use, so it won't bother building Z'Goks and whatnot. This made Operation Star One much harder than it needed to be. The most MS that are going to participate in that battle are the pre-generated GMs that are part of the invasion force (note: they are hopelessly outclassed by this point in the game) and your MS squad. Thankfully, I had a beefy as hell MS squad by that point in the game. Amuro was max level and pretty much unkillable in a max-thruster modded Gundam Alex, and he was being backed up by max level Yazan, Yuu Kajima, Sayla, and Chris. That single squad of units in Gundams/Heavy Gundams absolutely wood chipper'd everything that Zeon could throw at it. They were also backed up by a squad of ace-helmed Full Armor Gundams/Guncannon IIs and a squad of whatever quality units left I could scrape together helmed by whatever Aces I had remaining (Fraw Bow in a GM Sniper II!). Given how dumb the Federation AI was at that point, even on Easy Tem Ray's squad was absolutely essential to making any kind of headway in Space. I am now left wondering if the AI will actually be any more intelligent on Normal/Hard (I sure hope so!) Revil Campaign: The start of this campaign is a good opportunity to copy the AI and make the early game "Depp Rog - The Musical". Mod them for movement/damage and set them upon an unsuspecting Zeon - they will handily kill most of Zeon's early game ground units, with even their supposed counter of Zaku Cannons being relatively easy to handle by simply bombing them from Range 1. Despite their somewhat low HP for a mid-sized unit, they are generally quite durable given that most Zeon ground units can't hit air units all that well. Rogs can also hit air units, but it's pointless to attack an air unit with more than one stack of Rogs as the game doesn't seem to register supporting air fire from other Rogs (which is a problem that's shared by Gaws bombing Ground units - the game won't recognize the other Gaws as supporting with their bombs, making it a pointless waste of energy to do so). Just... make sure you support them with Type-61s or whatever unit can capture cities. Depp Rogs don't gain much energy back from sitting on supply lines (if any) and they need to go back to an active city/base tile in order to recharge and repair. During a base assault Depp Rogs can and will run out of energy if they're in combat for a few turns, especially if you've modded them for damage. Nothing is more embarrassing than allowing the AI to regroup and rebuild its MS forces because you don't have something that can capture the main production tile/bases for your Rogs to resupply, making them run out of energy and unable to keep their growing numbers in check. That being said - there isn't a force that Zeon can muster in the early game that's capable of handling 50 Depp Rogs. Overall, the early game for Revil's campaign is much, much easier than it is for Zeon. The Federation has a huge advantage when it comes to Ground units on Earth - the GM Type-D (the Cold Districts GM) is probably one of the best cost/performance/tech level required units in the entire game and will really only stop being a viable frontline unit once Zeon starts mainstreaming Doms/Z'Goks. GM Strikers are melee monsters when piloted by Aces and they only take a turn to produce. So many of your units have a range of 2 or more that you can easily wipe out an entire stack by pouring on support fire while your mainline units attack the enemy from Range 1. Space is a very different story though - the Federation gets no stopgap Space-only GMs between the base model and the GM Command (Space), and Zeon gets a ton of cool toys in Space that really outclass GMs during those tech levels. While the Federation has a great starting capital ship fleet, that fleet is inherently handicapped by their low innate accuracy and fatal weakness to MS at Range 1, which Zeon has in abundance. Basically, Space is a holding action until you finally have enough cap space to spam a shitload of basic GMs or until you get the GM Command (Space), which can at least hold its own against anything short of a Gelgoog. You also don't have a lot of Ace-use Space MS aside from the GM Commander (not Command) type, which while better than nothing is nowhere near the same level as the GM Striker. Overall though - this is much, much easier than Gihren's campaign. You do need to watch out for some bullshit units that Zeon has, though - the Adzam is still a murderous SOB and the changes to leader-type attacks from in-battle to Map attacks actually makes them deadlier, since they can drop a leader on a full stack of units without suffering through any counterattacks. Big Zam can and will wipe out multiple stacks with its Map attacks, and thanks to its overall attack power being extremely high the Zeon AI will waste no time in producing them until it hits unit cap and it is very good at screening to protect said Zams while they get into position. Overall: This game is growing on me. Don't get me wrong, Gihren's campaign is still complete and utter bullshit (do not start with Gihren's campaign) but some of the other campaigns have been interesting/fun. I'm continuing to appreciate and understand how the changes to stack sizes really changes the fundamentals of the game. It's a huge boost to melee units - if you can take out the first three units in the stack (who you are statistically the most likely to hit) with ranged fire, then you need strong frontline melee units in order to wipe out the remaining units. As for why - it is extremely difficult to obliterate an entire stack of MS in one turn with ranged fire alone - the statistics behind who gets hit with ranged fire (in previous games, the math divided itself 3 ways - now it's divided 6 ways) means that the back half of a full stack will generally remain untouched, even if you load on a ton of supporting fire. You need strong melee units to wipe out that back half, which makes suits like Goufs, GM Strikers, Gyans, etc. much more relevant and impactful than they were in past GG games. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jun 2, 2022 |
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Jun 2, 2022 21:20
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https://store.steampowered.com/app/1537910/Chaos_Galaxy_2/ Does this game look like Ghiren's Greed to you all?
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Jul 24, 2022 07:23
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Oooh, thank you for the link! There's a demo, anyone try it out yet?
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Jul 24, 2022 07:43
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Is there any way to get the english patch to work with PSVita?
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Nov 8, 2022 22:51
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I believe it relies on a modified version of PPSSPP, so playing it outside of emulation is probably a no-go.
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Nov 8, 2022 22:53
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Yooo, new update dropped 3 days ago! Woo!
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Dec 14, 2022 03:10
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Sooooooo I went on a trip to Japan and procured a lot of Gihren's Greed games. Apparently Menace of Axis for the PS2 goes for some crazy prices on the resale market in Japan! The Book-Off in Akibahara probably has a decent mark-up, but it was still one of the more expensive games I purchased on the trip.
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Nov 21, 2023 18:09
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LuiCypher posted:Sooooooo I went on a trip to Japan and procured a lot of Gihren's Greed games. That was the last one that had everything and I think the PS2 version has animated cutscenes where the PSP version had stills so yeah, it's the ultimate.
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Nov 21, 2023 20:04
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The only source of animated footage of the development of Federation mobile suits.
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Nov 22, 2023 09:01
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Midjack posted:That was the last one that had everything and I think the PS2 version has animated cutscenes where the PSP version had stills so yeah, it's the ultimate. Sadly I don't think that's true, but the other PS2 one, WFZI, had both new cutscenes for the One Year War and an archive of the BoZ movies as well.
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Nov 22, 2023 09:57
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I was a dum-dum and thought my PS3 would have no issue playing the JP PS2 Gihren's Greed games I bought, but apparently even a backwards-compatible PS3 still respects the region-coding on PS2 games. Not wishing to brick or get my PS3 banned by installing CFW on it to get around the region lock, I'll probably buy a region-free, modded PS2 off of Monitor Burn and play the games that way. But yes, reviewing my stack of goods reminded me that not only did I get Menace of Axis V for PS2, I also got War for Zeon Independence for the PS2 on top of Blood of Zeon for the Dreamcast so I should be able to confirm what the differences are between WfZI and MoAV on the PS2. This means that I now - pretty much - have physical copies of most Gihren's Greed games. I don't have the original MoA, but having MoAV makes that pretty much redundant and I still need to acquire a physical copy of Shin, but I'll leave that for eBay. It's a real shame that the developers now like to pretend that Gihren's Greed never existed, though. Many of the music tracks produced for GG games have found their way into Battle Operation 2, but instead of crediting the source of the track as being from Gihren's Greed it attributes it to 'OTHER'. I guess someone who is now very high up still holds a grudge over the low sales of Shin Gihren's... LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Nov 27, 2023 |
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Nov 27, 2023 17:49
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Wow - forgot how rough Blex's campaign is early on in MoAV. To explain - Blex's campaign begins more or less just prior to the events of Zeta Gundam. Granted, you get the option to steal the Mark II pretty early on (I wanna say first 10 turns), but that still makes it start right before the events of Zeta. The starting situation is... rough to say the least. You control the moon (so Granada and Von Braun, with Granada being your one production center) and the space around it and that's it. Moreover, almost all of your early-game operations are about taking colonies which... while they're worth a fair amount of money each turn, they are relatively supply-poor especially when compared to Earth's strategic areas. So much of the early game is spent with you being both tech-poor (your best early-game frontline unit is the GM Custom which... is not exactly great, since it takes 2 turns to produce so you'll probably just default to the GM Kai which can be produced in one turn. But at least the Titans start on relatively similar footing) and supply-poor, and supplies are the key resource you need to produce units. Moreover, as suits become more advanced they cost even more supplies, so the combination of low supplies + increasing supply cost of MS needed to remain competitive with the Titans is a big double whammy. You could always convert the 'free' units you get from researching units into supplies, but you might not want to do this for some MS because every unit is pretty valuable when you have a small, hard-to-build military. The Titans, of course, do not have this limitation. Additionally, if you want the Zeta Event Chain to fire off, you wind up losing pretty much all of your ace pilots for the majority of the campaign. Some of whom you won't even get to see or use at all if you let the entire chain reach the canon conclusion (either the TV series or the compilation movies)! So if you want Aces (hint: you do), you're going to need to play straight lawful or straight chaos, and honestly you're better served by playing straight law since I think most of the chaotic pilots are coded to be Titans pilots anyways. Generally, I think it's easier to play straight lawful since you basically 1) do the right thing when presented with a choice and 2) pretty much nothing else since it gets you occasional tranches of money, supplies, and tech anyways. You could always flub the Argama event chain to get your Aces back (the best way to do this is by not sending the Hyaku Shiki to the Argama and letting them get murked by Scirocco's Messala - this guarantees that you'll get Kamille, Emma, Bright, and keep Reccoa, but I'm not sure how it impacts Karaba). I generally find that it's better to let event chains fire off because it ties up most the enemy's Aces too and ensures that you'll rarely see quite a few of them - especially Yazan and Scirocco. Also, playing lawful will eventually get you additional pilots via the old White Base crew (really, Kai and Sayla) who you wouldn't see otherwise (but only if you've beaten another scenario before playing Blex's AEUG). Kai's alright, but Sayla counts as a Newtype and you really don't have access to a lot of those in Blex's campaign (I can really only name Anyways - early game is rough, and Jaburo is definitely one of the roughest strategic operations in the game but you absolutely need it in order to start gaining the supplies you need to ramp up production. The game also kind of penalizes you for slow-rolling and building tech up before the operation, too. If, for instance, you develop the Zeta Gundam before the Jaburo operation (you do need to develop the Zeta at some point or else the Argama Team will get murked by Jerid and Mouar in Gabthleys, thus breaking the event chain) then you won't actually be able to have the Argama Team 'support' the Jaburo operation. What does that mean, though? It means that without the Argama, the nuke inside of Jaburo goes off and you have no way of mitigating it. Oh, and the math is pretty cruel to you when the nuke goes off in this scenario. 50% of both AEUG and Titan units are destroyed, but the best units for the AEUG are destroyed first while for the Titans, their worst units are destroyed first. This is very, very bad. If you don't know about this, you might send a bunch of Aces in your best units to try and take Jaburo (the game is pretty well-structured to make taking Jaburo in 4 phases nigh impossible - on the 5th phase, the nuke goes off). They (and their units) will likely get nuked - while the pilots will return eventually, the units that they were in were likely some of your best and most expensive units which are incredibly hard to replace given your relative supply poverty. To be honest, it can be kind of game-ending if the calculus is extremely unfavorable to you. Therefore, you have to cheese it. You want to send the most token force possible that can survive until the fifth phase to get the nuke to fire off (destroying 50% of the Titans' units does have some benefit to you, at least), then start dropping your main attack force into Jaburo on the next strategic turn. To top off just how awful the Jaburo operation is though, even if you cheese it the AI will start piling all of its units on Earth into Jaburo over the next few turns after the nuke has gone off. If the bulk of your quality units just got mulched by the nuke, this can make winning the battle nigh impossible as the Titans drown you in numbers and will make future attempts a bit rougher as they will maintain a sizable presence in Jaburo after that. On Very Easy, the forces they pile into Jaburo are generally garbage units (aka OYW leftovers), but I can see them putting up actual quality units on higher difficulties. LuiCypher fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jan 4, 2024 |
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Dec 29, 2023 22:51
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Thank you for bumping this, playing these games was a minor motivation for me to start learning to read and I've gotten to a point where I can probably do it without being painfully slow.
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Dec 29, 2023 23:00
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| # ? May 6, 2024 01:54 |
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Midjack posted:Thank you for bumping this, playing these games was a minor motivation for me to start learning to read and I've gotten to a point where I can probably do it without being painfully slow. After the terminology (which is kinda specific and niche), I think the biggest challenge is understanding when the game is asking you a negative question. Japanese loves its negative questions (especially when subordinates ask their bosses questions, which covers 95% of the interactions in the game) and the 'yes/no' prompt afterwards can make it difficult to comprehend what you're agreeing/disagreeing to.
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Jan 2, 2024 23:15
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