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This is a thread to discuss the good HBO miniseries: Chernobyl and/or the actual event. I know for a fact that, besides myself, there are a few good nukes who are regular posters and knowledgeable about the nuclear power industry - so feel free to ask any questions about contamination, radiation, radiacs, or whatever you may be curious about.  Education on nuclear energy falls woefully short of adequate (at least in the US.) There's a lot of misconception and misunderstanding on how any of it works - leading to a lot of fear and superstition. We're all use to educating people on the subject and are happy to do so. --------------- I really like how they're presenting the event - there's a ton of stuff to unpack with Chernobyl and I doubt they're going to hit everything. I do hope they get into some of the leadup to the explosion with regards to the testing they were performing, their fundamental lack of understanding, and all the "switches" they closed before making this colossal fuckup. Some takeaways from me:
There's also a cool companion podcast and some amazing SA GBS posts, if you can believe it. Zuul the Cat posted:I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but there's a companion podcast to the show. They're interviewing the head writer, Craig Mazin. The episodes come out after the show episodes do, so there won't be any spoilers. Great background as to creative decisions and source material for the show. poverty goat posted:here's a big album of pripyat/chernobyl pictures, starting before the accident w/ some pics of the npp under construction Vastarien posted:https://webm.red/WtPv.webm Tinfoil Papercut fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 27, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 14:07
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It's scary and spooky in my opinion
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May 10, 2019 14:14
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Sid Vicious posted:It's scary and spooky in my opinion But the fire has such pretty weird colors! *Catches fallout with my tongue*
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May 10, 2019 14:32
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The previews have struck a fearful nerve in me like a subatomic cosmic horror. I will probably not be watching this and instead catch up on Barry, thank you.
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May 10, 2019 14:36
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I read Ablaze and was riveted to it so I’m watching this for sure.
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May 10, 2019 14:53
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The only other thing I remember fearing more about nuclear poo poo in the 80s was the day all the plants lined up and everyone was saying that would be the end. http://mentalfloss.com/article/76906/why-some-people-thought-world-might-end-march-10-1982
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May 10, 2019 14:56
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Someone get Honky Dong in here so he can start his annual question thread early.
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May 10, 2019 15:14
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ilmucche posted:Someone get Honky Dong in here so he can start his annual question thread early. 
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May 10, 2019 15:17
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After watching the first episode, radiation poisoning has replaced drowning as my least preferred method of death. Reading about the guy they kept alive from the Fukushima accident didn't help.
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May 10, 2019 15:18
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Bonzo posted:The only other thing I remember fearing more about nuclear poo poo in the 80s was the day all the plants lined up and everyone was saying that would be the end. The response and information put out to the public during TMI was so piss poor that it did irreparable damage to the US nuclear industry. Given that Chernobyl happened a few years later, the fear surrounding nuclear power has never gone away. Only now that people are starting to turn against fossil fuels is nuclear getting another look, but half of the people who should be strong proponents because of the climate change crusade still will dismiss it outright because of those stigmas.
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May 10, 2019 15:18
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how many roentgens are truly bad and how many are the level that makes the dead man walking look all sunburned in a matter of minutes and does that really happen in a matter of minutes or does it take longer Is there any amount of radiation that would just make somebody keel over instantly
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May 10, 2019 15:26
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:The response and information put out to the public during TMI was so piss poor that it did irreparable damage to the US nuclear industry. Given that Chernobyl happened a few years later, the fear surrounding nuclear power has never gone away.
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May 10, 2019 15:26
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I have watched a ton of videos about Chernobyl, read a few books, seen a lot of the archival footage but I'm not sure I can handle this show. It looks too loving bleak. I mean, we know how it turns out but still. My curiosity was mainly to find out why it happened and if it could happen to the two plants in my city. Thankfully it seems unlikely. Containment buildings are a good thing.
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May 10, 2019 15:32
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The amount of denial that was apparent in the first episode is pretty loving chilling. This show watches like a horror movie and it's more effective than actual horror movies. What is this, like 6 episodes or something?
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May 10, 2019 15:44
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ethanol posted:how many roentgens are truly bad and how many are the level that makes the dead man walking look all sunburned in a matter of minutes and does that really happen in a matter of minutes or does it take longer Roentgens is a unit I'm not completely familiar with, we mostly use REM (Roentgens equivalent man) which is a biological equivalent dose weighted for how hosed up you get from radiation exposure. The key to understanding is to know that nuclear radiation comes in different flavors. The most common type which causes issues is gamma radiation. This is the kind which passes through walls, can penetrate deep inside your body and cause all kinds of nasty things. Heavy, dense materials stop gamma rays, which is why a lot of shielding is made of lead or thick steel. Another type is neutron radiation, which comes into play with certain sources and operating cores - but the other two players with the show are Alpha and Beta radiation. Alpha and Beta *usually* are not an issue, because those guys are easily stopped under normal circumstances. Alpha radiation will not penetrate further than the top layers of your skin, which (lucky for you) is comprised of dead molting human skin husk on a microscopic scale. Beta radiation can do a bit better, but will be stopped by something like a piece of paper or a face shield, or clothing. As such, under normal circumstances and at contamination levels typically encountered during nuclear industry work, gamma radiation is the one of concern. However, radioactive contamination can produce the other flavors of radiation. When the contamination levels get high enough, beta radiation can become a factor. The contamination and radiation levels are so extreme, that the beta radiation is hitting their skin like a freight train which is causing the sunburn effect. This is likely being accompanied by a lethal dose of deep penetrating gamma radiation too. ---- Here's a the magnitude on acute exposure and effects: (in REM) 5-20 Possible late effects; possible chromosomal damage. 20-100 Temporary reduction in white blood cells 100-200 Mild radiation sickness within a few hours: vomiting, diarrhea, fatigue; reduction in resistance to infection. 200-300 Serious radiation sickness effects as in 100-200 rem and hemorrhage; exposure is a Lethal Dose to 10-35% of the population after 30 days (LD 10-35/30). 300-400 Serious radiation sickness; also marrow and intestine destruction; LD 50-70/30. 400-1000 Acute illness, early death; LD 60-95/30. 1000-5000 Acute illness, early death in days; LD 100/10.
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May 10, 2019 15:45
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bradzilla posted:The amount of denial that was apparent in the first episode is pretty loving chilling. This show watches like a horror movie and it's more effective than actual horror movies. What is this, like 6 episodes or something? spoiler alert though a supernatural killer stalks the land, the true monster is man 
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May 10, 2019 15:47
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I was reading something about flouride thorium as it pertains to nuclear power generation. Is there anything to it being better and safer?
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May 10, 2019 15:47
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:The response and information put out to the public during TMI was so piss poor that it did irreparable damage to the US nuclear industry. Given that Chernobyl happened a few years later, the fear surrounding nuclear power has never gone away. I heard an interview with David Crosby (the musician) and he said he thought nuclear was bad because "humans make mistakes". Funny because there have never been any oil spills or people driving tanker ships drunk or anything.
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May 10, 2019 15:51
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well, he's not wrong edit: crosbychat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPwJRdCjPzs Mozi fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 16:00
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Rad-daddio posted:I was reading something about flouride thorium as it pertains to nuclear power generation. Is there anything to it being better and safer? They're theoretically good, but in reality we (humanity) understand water very very well. It's not always the most efficient medium, but a lot of it comes down to the fact that we understand water and steam and everything in between better than any other substance on earth. The amount of R+D, testing, special equipment, special OSH concerns (beryllium), waste disposal, operating parameters, reactivity problems, etc. etc. will likely be too daunting for any serious investment over the current light water designs used throughout the world.
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May 10, 2019 16:02
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I'm not watching anything about nuclear reactors melting down unless it's about that kid in his shed making a reactor.
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May 10, 2019 16:11
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I saw the HBO mineries first episode. It's great but it left me feeling ill.
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May 10, 2019 16:19
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Temaukel posted:I saw the HBO mineries first episode. It's great but it left me feeling ill. It made my stomach churn, no bull
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May 10, 2019 16:20
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ethanol posted:how many roentgens are truly bad and how many are the level that makes the dead man walking look all sunburned in a matter of minutes and does that really happen in a matter of minutes or does it take longer Roentgen is an old unit for measuring radiation exposure from X-rays and gamma rays in an area by way of air ionization. What you are looking for is absorbed dose, measure in rads or gray (gy) which is the SI unit of measurement, and is energy absorbed per kilogram of matter. Here's the thresholds for rads. 1 rad = 0.01 gy = 0.01 J/kg code:Typically the radiation consisting of charged particles (alpha and beta) is absorbed quickly and thus can penetrate much less matter than gamma radiation or radiation consisting of neutrons. This means for you to get a high absorbed dose from alpha or beta radiation you either have to have ingested some material that emits that type of radiation (especially for alpha particles which are absorbed almost immediately in the air or in water) or in the case of beta radiation you have to be in direct contact (damage from beta sources is thus typically to the outer layer of the skin where the radiation is absorbed). Gamma radiation, being non-charged, electromagnetic light, can penetrate much deeper barriers of matter and is too energetic to be simply aborbed by molecules in the air and the water (think of how certain wavelengths of infrared light are aborbed by, for instance, CO2 molecules), so it's much more difficult to shield and protect yourself against than alpha and beta radiation (that's where lead and thick walls of concrete or deep pools of water come in). It should be noted though that alpha and beta radiation is significantly more energetic (at least per particle) than gamma radiation, so if you get in a situation where you (or worse your internal organs) are exposed to their of those you're typically in worse trouble than if you were exposed to a gamma source, to put it perhaps a little too simply. If you've ever seen somebody get severly sunburnt, you get something a bit reminiscent of radiation sickness (well, it is radiation sickness) especially as caused by high exposure to a gamma source, in addition to the skin damage you can get extreme nausea, temporary blindness and many other very uncomfortable things. With gamma radiation rather than UV-radiation, due to its greater energy and ability to penetrate more matter, you'll also get more damage to internal tissue, than with UV-radiation. All of this is from the energetic radiation breaking apart the bonds in our cells, which can lead to all sorts of issues, short and long-term (long term stuff is more common with doses absorbed over time, for instance by having ingested an alpha-emitter which can cause certain cancers dependent on where exactly it gets to working its magic). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 16:24 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 16:21
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I can't wait to see how they do the elephant's foot boring its way down into the groundwater, it's the Chernobyl final boss.
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May 10, 2019 16:22
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Randarkman posted:Roentgen is an old unit for measuring radiation exposure from X-rays and gamma rays in an area by way of air ionization. What you are looking for is absorbed dose, measure in rads or gray (gy) which is the SI unit of measurement, and is energy absorbed per kilogram of matter. In other words, the people at the plant are going to get their pants-making GBS threads horrifying death right now while all the people in the town frolicking in the fallout are going to get cancer later except that smart nurse chick who's about to do some mad iodine shots.
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May 10, 2019 16:31
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lol @ waiting a week for 1 episode
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May 10, 2019 16:32
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:In other words, the people at the plant are going to get their pants-making GBS threads horrifying death right now while all the people in the town frolicking in the fallout are going to get cancer later except that smart nurse chick who's about to do some mad iodine shots. Didn't the local authorities completely gently caress up with the iodine (and essentially end up causing thousands of deaths from cancer in the process)? I think they waited far too long to do any sort of countermeasures due to downplaying and misunderstanding the disaster due to conflicting the reports, wishful thinking, outright attempts at coverups and sheer incompetence. Chernobyl kind of was a perfect storm of bad reactor design, irresponsible and incompetent management and awful crisis response. I still think we should do nukes.
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May 10, 2019 16:36
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It's funny how nuclear power seems more scary than something truly horrifying like CRISPR.
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May 10, 2019 16:36
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Randarkman posted:Didn't the local authorities completely gently caress up with the iodine (and essentially end up causing thousands of deaths from cancer in the process)? I think they waited far too long to do any sort of countermeasures due to downplaying and misunderstanding the disaster due to conflicting the reports, wishful thinking, outright attempts at coverups and sheer incompetence. Yes. This is much like the Titanic not having enough lifeboats for everyone, because "lol never going to happen."
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May 10, 2019 16:40
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Is there a possible scenario that would lead to millions dead like that one plant worker in the show said?
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May 10, 2019 16:43
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Sid Vicious posted:It's scary and spooky in my opinion
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May 10, 2019 16:46
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get out of here STALKER
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May 10, 2019 16:46
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Mercrom posted:Is there a possible scenario that would lead to millions dead like that one plant worker in the show said? I've always been curious about this too. What would need to happen to create an actual nuclear power catastrophe where thousands of people die instantly? Is such an event even possible?
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May 10, 2019 16:59
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Mercrom posted:Is there a possible scenario that would lead to millions dead like that one plant worker in the show said? IIRC they ended up getting lucky with the winds not blowing most of the fallout into more heavily populated areas. So if you had been more unlucky there and the places downwind took no precautions as well, then you could have seen a much higher death toll (over time that is, I don't think many of those deaths would have been anything close to immediate, number of casualties from the Chernobyl disaster itself is also hard to estimate due to this "over time" business). The iodine thing is due to radioactive isotopes of iodine being produced in the reactor's nuclear reactions and buidling up in the spent fuel. When the thing blew up this was released into the air, water and soil (and from being carried in the air it also deposited itself in the soil downwind of the disaster). Iodine builds up in your throid and normally coems from stuff you eat and drink (I think particularly dairy products), also keep in mind that normal and radioactive iodine are chemically identical. So if you get radioactive iodine into your body you can develop some forms of thyroid cancer and other issues later in life, this can however be counteracted with taking iodine tablets and shots (I'm not sure exactly how, maybe "filling you up"? I'm no doctor) for a time until the danger passes (the specific iodine isotope iodine-131 is highly radioactive and decays quickly, which makes it very dangerous in the short-term but relatively harmless in the long-term as it decays into insignificance quickly). Even so it seems as if at least for the thyroid cancers caused by the fallout, they actually are genereally treatable, and survivable with good odds, if treated. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 16:59
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Nefarious 2.0 posted:get out of here STALKER
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May 10, 2019 17:00
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I really loved the first episode. Incredibly bleak and terrifying. I don't understand all the science behind it, but I understand some of it. The scene where they make the poor guy go up on the roof to check if he core is gone was a great one. Question for those who know: how accurate is the effects of radiation exposure on the show? The guy who picked up the graphite and got those giant sores on his hand - would it happen that rapidly? Why did the big guy who held the door to the core open start to bleed from his hip so quickly?
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May 10, 2019 17:04
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I'm spooked by this thread because I powerfully wish I hadn't read about and seen the picture of the Japanese dripping skeleton man in the atomic accidents thread.
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May 10, 2019 17:11
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Zuul the Cat posted:Question for those who know: how accurate is the effects of radiation exposure on the show? The guy who picked up the graphite and got those giant sores on his hand - would it happen that rapidly? Why did the big guy who held the door to the core open start to bleed from his hip so quickly? pretty accurate the firefighter who picked up the graphite chunk had his hand hosed up because that chunk was a piece of the reactor itself, like the part that goes right next to the nuclear fuel rods, and so it is incredibly god awful radioactive. all those firefighters are hosed from standing in a field of wildly dangerous rubble. when the one comments to the other "do you taste metal?" this is iirc when science discovered that one way to tell if you've hit an immediate 'you are hosed' level of radiation exposure is that it causes a metallic taste the guy who was holding open the door was leaning against the inside of the radiation-proof door, which was the side that was exposed to (and absorbing) shitloads of radiation. by putting his skin in contact with the door he started absorbing a lot more radiation specifically to the parts of his body which were touching the door think about a piece of metal which is glowing hot. if you put your hand near it, you could get burned. if you touch it, then the heat is more easily transferred to your hand and your burns are worse. radiation kind of works the same way, in that air is something of an insulator, except the radiation is like a heat you can't see or feel
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May 10, 2019 17:16
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Tinfoil Papercut posted:Here's a the magnitude on acute exposure and effects: (in REM) to add on to this, from the TVIV thread, this is an estimation of how much radiation was present in various parts of the facility immediately after the reactor exploded  ethanol posted:how many roentgens are truly bad and how many are the level that makes the dead man walking look all sunburned in a matter of minutes and does that really happen in a matter of minutes or does it take longer anything over 100 REM is probably going to cause radiation sickness, which is not great, but treatable if you get medical attention 600+ REM is where you start bleeding, vomiting, and death is near certain as your body dissolves. at 1,000 REM medical science cannot save you the japanese guy hisashi ouchi (do not google him) who was kept alive, melting, for three months got a dose of 1,700 REM the guy in this clip, louis slotin, gets a dose of 2,100 REM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ0P7R9CfCY looking directly into the reactor core on fire? 30,000 REM to your face Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 10, 2019 |
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May 10, 2019 17:19
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