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I liked the reveal and music of Silver Chariot Requiem as well as fully realized Diavolo. Man, if the anime gets me to like the weirdo Requiem section, it will be a miracle.
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Jun 7, 2019 19:09
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Funky Valentine posted:The anime really isn't shifting my opinion on Diavolo sucking. I like Diavolo way more in the anime; probably due to him having great buildup with being nerfed as Doppio for multiple eps. The length of time.made his reveal as this invincible dude that was finally free to just murder everyone better.
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Jun 15, 2019 01:55
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Yinlock posted:that doesn't change how boring he is Doppio is part of Diavolo as a villain. They're separate souls in the same body (which effectively works like fictional MPD), but the two of them compose one villain. It's JUST like Split. The whole movie is a buildup to invincible The Beast personality coming out, but you still see all of the different personalities as being part of the singular antagonist, especially since they work together. Diavolo is the Beast, essentially. Also goes for characters like Crazy Jane/etc. Darko fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 16:01
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Johnny Joestar posted:the final encounter with king crimson has always sucked and i don't think the anime can magically fix that The way I see it now (and not while reading) is that it's built that the Boss literally has an invincible power that you can at best avoid and there's no way to beat it, just desperate attempts at dodging it. The World can be planned around a bit as long as you work with the time limitation, it just matters who Kira fights, etc., but this is like Kars where Araki is doing his "nope, straight up invincible, the hero needs a MacGuffin or pure luck to win and can't outfight him." So the end of Part 5 is trying to get the arrow, which is the only MacGuffin that can beat him as opposed to a Stand fight. Similar to how Joseph didn't fight Kars and just had to run from him until complete and total bullshit happened. Or how part 6 does this where it is a race to the MacGuffin again, but this time the villain is racing to get it and then he's invincible and wins and only "loses" due to a different technicality that doesnt really have much to do with the main protagonists (6 probably has my least favorite "end boss battle" of all and leadup to it - the only good thing about it is seeing cool scenes of everyone dying to him). edit: The arrow is no different than the stone of Aja, etc. - person who gets it gets the Ultimate power thats basically an I win button. It's just person in this case is Giorno. Darko fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 16:09
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Rand Brittain posted:The idea that King Crimson is invincible confuses me. There are a lot of things that could kill Diavolo that King Crimson can't stop, including but not limited to exploding the building he is in, poisoning him, or killing him while he is sleeping. Not in the terms of a JoJo's manga battle because it's presented as a "perfect" defense. Being able to see what will happen ahead of time and just erase it in a fight is far above anyone else to this point (even Kar's "unkillable" can be negated by Stands that can effectively trap him or erase him). There are a few technical Stands that can beat KC, but nothing that any of the main protagonists have. Epitaph by itself saved Diavolo's other half against a super powerful Stand; you stack "erasing the poo poo in between" and there's not poo poo most protagonists can do. Now if he had to fight, like, Freddy Krueger baby, then he'd probably lose if he was ambushed. But he's not on the team. Darko fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 15, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 18:46
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Momomo posted:Also on another note the stuff with the arrow always struck me as a bit odd. Jojo doesn't really do powercreep like traditional manga, so the effects of the arrow feel less like gaining untold power and more like they just rerolled for a different stand, at least in Silver Chariot's case. I don't feel like putting people to sleep and switching bodies is a power that much stronger than others we've seen without using the arrow (especially stuff in part 6. Chariot Requiem comparatively seems on par with stuff like Bohemian Rhapsody). Basing your whole ending on a powerup that barely feels like a powerup just isn't that interesting. Errr, I'm not sure you remember what Chariot Requiem could do. It gives full soul control (and that includes Stands) while being almost completely invincible and works on a worldwide level to evolve everyone's souls and bodies into something else, gradually. It's also consistent with GER because it provides an auto defense (try to attack, your Stand turns against you). So even with that relatively weak starting Stand, it gives a power that works on a worldwide level and will eventually change the entire planet, provides a nuh uh you can't touch me defense, and literally controls everyone's souls and Stands. The only reason it's not particularly useful against Diavolo is that its user is too weak to control it. That also intends that if Diavolo got it - good god since he's already so powerful. Fortunately, Giorno got it, and got a top 3 absolute bullshit powerful Stand for it.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:05
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multijoe posted:The problem with King Crimson is it does 'cheat' like no other main villain's Stand does. Because it's never firmly established how people experience erased time the cast don't get to react to it in a logcal way had Araki had stuck firm with any single depiction. Instead sometimes its Futurama Time Keeps Skipping-style cuts forward where people continue to take actions but can't recall them, other times physics seem to continue but everyone is vacant for the duration as with Polnareff's blood drops and then other times it just seems to be The World. Kira also kept changing abilities (what, 4 times?), but at least in that case, it was kind of fun because you basically just had 3 or 4 different separate, set Stand fights.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:14
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Bad Seafood posted:Parts 1-4 and 7 are what I usually think of when I think of Jojo. For me: Part 1's first half has the most hilarious villain of the series but it's not quite there yet in art or fighting Part 2 has a hilarious protagonist, is wacky, and has fun and ridiculous fights Part 3 is the most shounen, has okay characters, has a few good fights and a good climax but the action generally suffers from him figuring out Stands Part 4 has a great crew of protagonists, a great antagonist, and maybe 90 percent of the fights are good Part 5 has okay protagonists (back to 3's level), a villain that is probably again at Part 3's level (DIO gets a lot of credit for stacking Dio Brando's personality from 1 on him subconsciously, but basically only shows up at the very end, Diavolo suffers from a lot of people not staking Doppio on to him), some of the absolute best Stand fights in the series, with a few clunkers, and a final act that kind of peters out Part 6 has a great protagonist and an okay group of friends, an okay villain, some pretty decent Stand fights, but around 50 percent are too over the top, and a final act that is overlong and ends on a fizzle Part 7 has great protagonists, great battles, a great villain, and a good final fight (I count the Dio part as an epilogue of sorts) Part 8, I don't know what the hell is going on I think Part 5's biggest detriment is coming off of the heels of one of the best parts, highlighting its flaws more (if it came after 3, it would have been natural progression of the same type of stuff, but better), and coming before a much better main protagonist, highlighting that flaw. If you swapped Part 4 and 5 in order, it would come off much better, I think. 6 is just a bit too much in general and I always get fatigue 40 percent through it when I try to re-read it.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:25
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Butt Ghost posted:It also helps that the fights against Kira are good Well, to be fair, there aren't any real Stand fights against Diavolo except Doppio vs. Metallica (which I like more than any of the individual Kira fights). Otherwise, it's just Diavolo killing people or getting killed by GER.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:29
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Momomo posted:Was it supposed to be worldwide? If that's the case then sure but I thought it was just the general area, like Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah, the end point to Chariot Requiem is that it will eventually evolve all life on the planet so it needed to be stopped, period. It does a good job of establishing that the Arrow just creates ridiculous Stands that are way above the level of what they were before when you realize that. Also, it doesn't just evolve Stands, it gives you your desire when your Stand is stabbed, so that's why Chariot's whole deal was "protect the arrow at all costs" and Gold Experience was "make me the most bullshit power ever please." edit: Yeah, Heavy Weather was basically just as crazy, but that's at the end of Part 5, it was built up to be stupid crazy, and we hadn't really seen anything like that before or till that point outside of Requiem Stands.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:34
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Yeah, I do like the family. But the only thing that really stood out to me outside of the family that I enjoyed was Damo.
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Jun 15, 2019 19:44
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Yinlock posted:that's because the story explicitly tells us that diavolo and doppio are entirely seperate people, while DIO and Dio are the same guy I already gave the example of Split earlier. There is no functional difference in the narrative between McAvoy's other characters and The Beast and Doppio/Diavolo. Or Norma/Norman Bates, etc. It's a split personality with a dominant personality, only in a series with soul powers, Araki gave the split two souls as well. DIO does practically nothing in 3 outside of being an unseen guy in the shadows until the very end, which is basically what Diavolo is. They have about the same level of personality in their respective parts; people just use fond memories of Dio Brando to inform DIO.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:36
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't really see how Epitaph will save you from poison as long as the onset time is greater than about 30 seconds. That's why he lives in a dark room alone where nobody knows who he is, since his only weakness is that kind of assassination.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:38
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TheLoneStar posted:DIO's fight with Jotaro by itself makes him ten times better than Diavolo. Eh, I'm not that huge of a fan of that fight outside of a couple of moments. Now if you said Pet Shop vs. Diavolo, I'd agree.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:41
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Expect My Mom posted:DIO's "Oh, you're approaching me?" scene has literally become a huge meme in the last month or two. That fight in general is Goku vs Frieza in terms of Shonen Notoriety, "liking DIO is entirely nostalgia" is an absolutely insane take on the finale of Part 3. For decades all the West knew about JoJo was the road roller bit, what the hell are you talking about The Freeza fight is the most iconic part of Dragon Ball, and he's the most beloved villain then, but he's not actually interesting until Super plays on his character a bit more. There's a difference between Shonen type good fun video game style bosses and developed characters. Funny Valentine is a great, well developed villain, DIO is a fun final boss. I don't really like the latter much anymore.
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Jun 16, 2019 14:30
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Aurora posted:the napkin speech is just a ripoff of do you remember how many breads you have eaten Diego is better than DIO
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Jun 16, 2019 16:24
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Given that Doppio didnt know his Diavolo personality was there when he was around, its just now making sense to me why Diavolos soul switch can just hide and take over. No idea why both didn't go in the same body, though.
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Jun 22, 2019 00:01
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This final fight is a lot better than I remember, actually. I just didn't understand what the hell was going on in the manga, and now that I understand Requiem Stands just being the user's wish + how Chariot actually works, there are actual stakes to this part. Also, i didn't remember Trish pulling off the arrow save with Diavolo at all; I thought that she did nothing at all outside of her one Stand fight and softening the bullets that were going to hit Mista.
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Jun 28, 2019 18:51
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Johnny Joestar posted:other thread To answer what you said in the other thread, the next part's second Stand fight is a convoluted Stand fight WITHIN a Stand fight. It really hits the ball rolling with ridiculousness and has at least 3 super convoluted situations/Stand fights within.
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Jun 28, 2019 22:05
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Liquid Dinosaur posted:I think a few pages ago someone said that it would have been cool if the Diavolo persona “was” King Crimson? It pretty much is. He does get a body in the end, but for all intents and purposes, he's always a soul hiding behind another personality because he's so scared of being out in the open. That's also why he dies (over and over and over again) when he's finally stuck out in the open with nowhere to hide.
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Jun 30, 2019 15:58
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The only DBZ JoJos is really OAV DIO Jotaro.
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Jul 2, 2019 02:23
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Brought To You By posted:That's final boss material if I've ever seen it. Gotta have it tie into space-time somehow for a final boss.
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Jul 20, 2019 00:15
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Space-time is connected. I mean, the part before the guy that could dimension swap was about a guy manipulating time so much that he could rewrite space. He obviously sees them as connected and an extension of each other. There's a way you could do that with heat, but we'll see if he gets some kind of power up extension or not.
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Jul 20, 2019 05:08
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Dragonatrix posted:Even discounting whether or not D4C counts as a Time Stand, two final boss Stands only got to mess with time at the final battle. That's part of the conversation; if he *is* the final boss, what spacetime based upgrade will he get?
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Jul 20, 2019 20:00
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Expect My Mom posted:calling DIO the Final Boss of Part 7 is gonna give me an ulcer Yeah, he's just Valentine's final attack.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:12
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Hemingway To Go! posted:Requiem stands seem kind of op for the setting Nobody told Jotaro about them or else Stone Ocean would have lasted until he got to the jail, maybe.
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Jul 28, 2019 22:25
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Funky Valentine posted:Someone brought up the hilarious Jesus imagery with Scolippi and lol we really do need Steel Ball Read. I was laughing at that and barely avoided the urge to make snippy winks about it.
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Jul 29, 2019 00:00
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Okuyasu Nijimura posted:I still really don't mind him that much but I suspect I am one of the few people who really does not give a poo poo about Pucci nor find him that interesting Pucci is my least favorite JoJos villain. Hes, at best, still just a cypher for DIO when he finally gets developed. Diavolo is at least a funny idiot (and Doppio is part of that), Pucci is just a passive wet fart who is serving DIO. Hes basically if they made Vanilla Ice the villain. Darko fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 01:56
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PringleCreamEgg posted:I can't believe they made a Total Recall remake where they completely removed the 'is it real or not' aspect. First one doesn't really have that quandry if you pay attention to the beginning. Can still have fun watching it either way, though.
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Aug 6, 2019 02:01
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People are all like "Araki doesn't change how characters look after 4" in the other thread as I read through Valentine's gradual physical evolution (and it's super gradual, way moreso than Iggy).
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Aug 6, 2019 23:21
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After re-reading 7 and thinking of in in the context of the others, every object that is central to the plot from 5, on, gives the final-battle-villain with it some kind of auto-block power while having a goal of remaking things in some way (I'm counting Chariot Requiem as the last battle in 5 and Valentine with Love Train as 7's). I'm trying to get through 8 again, and am curious as to if he's going to end up doing that with the Rokakaka.
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Aug 7, 2019 23:12
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Some people prefer funny to "badass" or whatever. Plus you have 3 different versions of funny Joseph.
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Nov 22, 2019 17:12
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TheLoneStar posted:Didn't Valentine's change occur when an alternate him came into the primary timeline, or am I just remembering wrong? I just read it looking for it and it was kind of gradual, actually.
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Nov 25, 2019 22:23
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somepartsareme posted:This is why part 4 is in fact the best part Nah, 7, it has more banter and downtime than any.
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Mar 16, 2020 05:19
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I just tried to rewatch 3 due to quarantine boredome, and I had to skip most of it; the early Stand fights are just bad, and the best ones (that resemble later ones) all have Iggy involved. Which is weird because 1 and 2 flowed fine and were easily watchable (which makes sense as he hadn't figured out how to get as crazy as with Hamon with Stands at first).
Darko fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 21, 2020 20:05
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Yeah. Grateful Dead, Beqch Boy is pretty much as close as you get to a consensus as to best Stand fight, as it's almost in everyones top 3.
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Apr 13, 2020 13:43
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Johnny Joestar posted:nah, i think they mean the takashi miike venture that was live action You haven't seen Audition? None of his stuff is really anything like the other, so it doesn't really matter since you can't make a comparison with his 2 billion movies. The DiU movie is a really good adaptation of the first 3rd or so with a hint of the villain EXCEPT there's not enough posing, which is the only thing missing but a big thing.
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May 14, 2020 01:55
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Nothing still beats Joseph dying to the point where his spirit flies out and everything and then coming back for no real reason that makes the slightest sense.
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May 17, 2020 19:39
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Johnny Joestar posted:it doesn't Pulls people from different timelines that were split by different variances in past and future.
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Jun 22, 2020 00:24
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overmind2000 posted:New chapter is up on MangaDex This is just insane, but not as insane as his naming conventions. Doo Doo Doo Dee Daa Daa? Out of all The Police songs, I'd never guess that as a name.
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Jul 17, 2020 20:24
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