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Ardennes posted:Btw, this whole thread is and will be “how to stop the spread of misinformation...from people I don’t like.” This is a really lazy analysis of why people are concerned about record measles outbreaks, among other things. I don’t know where you live, but it’s hitting where I live and it’s not just a matter of me “not liking those people”. Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 14:49
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DrSunshine posted:I'm not quite sure if I understand what you mean by "reserve the gains", and no, I wasn't aware of what the US has used the supposed sonic attacks to do. I've definitely read and followed the stories about the sonic attacks, but I was more curious about the mystery of what happened (I'm a big X-Files fan) than anything else. It was just crickets, and you probably should read up on the US and Cuba because it is kind of important. Misinformation of types from every angle has led to violence, death, and general misery. Solkanar512 posted:This is a really lazy analysis of why people are concerned about record measles outbreaks, among other things. I don’t know where you live, but it’s hitting where I live and it’s not just a matter of me “not liking those people”. The issue is much bigger than Pizzagate and anti-vaxx stuff.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:08
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Ardennes posted:It was just crickets, and you probably should read up on the US and Cuba because it is kind of important. It most certainly is, but your characterization that it’s just about “not liking people” seriously diminishes the harm being done.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:13
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Solkanar512 posted:It most certainly is, but your characterization that it’s just about “not liking people” seriously diminishes the harm being done. But if issue is bigger than the anti-vaxx movement, then the issue of harm needs to be more specific. If you want to talk about anti-vaccination being stupid, sure, I won’t stop you but it is reductive.
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Jun 24, 2019 15:20
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DrSunshine posted:The more I think about it, the more I feel that we need to somehow contain these types of memes, because of the risks they pose to society. It's okay to be skeptical, but when people begin to doubt the very processes underlying what creates knowledge in the first place, such as the scientific process, or to doubt all experts and people in positions of expertise or authority, it opens up society to disarray. Democracy can't function if there is no consensus on what constitutes reality. The fundamental problem driving all of this is that people in positions of expertise and authority have repeatedly shown in the past that they can't be trusted, and have done little or nothing to address those past events that have driven distrust. There was once a consensus that asbestos and leaded gasoline was safe. There was once a consensus that cigarettes and opioids weren't addictive and didn't have any harmful side effects at all. There once was a consensus that black people felt less pain than whites and therefore doctors should pay less attention to their complaints. There once was a consensus that marijuana was a "gateway drug" that would lead people's lives down the road to ruin. And so on. Now, all of that had all sorts of different reasons. Sometimes it was genuine scientific mistakes or a simple lack of data. Sometimes it was the result of an industry cover-up which funded fake studies while deliberately burying the truth. Sometimes it didn't really have any scientific basis at all but just crept into the public consciousness and medical curriculums as unscientific fear and bias. But all of them have one thing in common: people who've spent decades of their lives being told one thing by experts, and are now being told that actually, it turns out that thing was the exact opposite of true and has inflicted significant and irreversible damage to the lives of a number of people. After that, it's no wonder that people aren't going to extend nearly as much trust to the other things those experts have told them. To combat the misinformation, you first need to address a subject that's completely unrelated to the subject at hand: the incidents that have formed the root of people's distrust. We don't need to convince people of the underlying effectiveness of vaccines, we need to convince them that thirty years from now we won't be talking about the "vaccine scandal" in the same tones that we use to describe the "blood scandal" (companies knowingly selling HIV-contaminated blood products) or the opioid crisis.
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Jun 24, 2019 16:03
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Ardennes posted:It was just crickets, and you probably should read up on the US and Cuba because it is kind of important. That's not what was reported. A noise recorded by some sufferers turned out to be just crickets but noises were not associated with every case, this was in the 9th paragraph of the story. [quote="‘Sonic attack’ on US embassy in Havana could have been crickets, say scientists" ] Not all of the affected diplomats reported unusual sounds when they fell ill, and descriptions of any noises differed from person to person. Some recalled grinding or cicada-like sounds, while others experienced buffeting like that caused by an open car window. [/quote] SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 17:04
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:That's not what was reported. A noise recorded by some sufferers turned out to be just crickets but noises were not associated with every case, this was in the 9th paragraph of the story. So some were hearing crickets and others we’re being blasted with sonic devices but both showed similar symptoms? I will cut to the chase and say it isn’t believable unless there is some actual evidence at hand. Btw that goes for other types of “misinformation.” Ardennes fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jun 24, 2019 17:16
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Ardennes posted:So some were hearing crickets and others we’re being blasted with sonic devices but both showed similar symptoms? Im not saying it was real. I'm saying some people affected heard what turned out to be crickets therefore everything was crickets is faulty logic if not everybody heard that noise. I don't even care if it was real or not. Like you said, it was an excuse.
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Jun 24, 2019 17:27
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Mass hysteria explains all symptoms, if someones heart explodes after saying "the sacadas sure are loud today!"belief shiftd
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Jun 24, 2019 18:47
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sPoOkY sCaRy CoMmUnIsTs using crickets to kill your kids I feel like the cold war really did a number on a lot of people.
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Jun 24, 2019 19:15
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Ardennes posted:Btw, this whole thread is and will be “how to stop the spread of misinformation...from people I don’t like.”
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Jun 24, 2019 19:43
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The Russian Collusion debacle is a good example of how dangerous this poo poo is. For a year and a half the "reputable" mainstream news sources gleefully disseminated every rumor tangentially connecting bit players in trumpworld to evil Russians--printing insane, pepe-silva flow-charts on their front pages and calling it news The real story--"Facebook took money from foreign government agencies to help spread misinformation during an American election"--got buried under an avalanche of politically motivated conspiracy theories that distracted the country from the actual nefarious poo poo the administration was getting up to
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Jun 25, 2019 01:41
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It's a good thing that people I don't like and people that spread misinformation are nicely overlapped.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:28
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I liked this passage from a book, about the proliferation of rumor and uncertainty in the Somali capital of Mogadishu before the dictatorship of Siad Barre collapsed:      It was written by an anthropologist, a perspective that is badly needed when trying to understand how misinformation disseminates. edit: I often think of this when I see people in D&D leaping to bizarre and unsupportable conclusions based on the latest news Squalid fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 03:40
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Just let it burn, the truth will always win even if billions have to die in a climate catastrophe / anti-vax death cult / international incident. lmao.
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Jul 6, 2019 06:27
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The most important difference between a major news network, a rambling internet video 'news entertainiment' channel, and your grandma's Facebook page is basically budget. They're designed to be vectors for misinformation, not filters for it.
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Jul 6, 2019 06:38
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As a society we place too much weight on confidence in being right in relation to how much misinfo, disinfo and plain distorted narratives about correct facts there are floating around at any given time firstly because humans are always arbitrarily filling gaps in their imperfect knowledge, secondly because they are beneficial to parties spreading them thirdly because of how difficult it is to prove statements wrong and get that proof known to and accepted by people even when it exists. I would argue that it's a downright impossible task for individuals to reliably tell correct from mistaken in such an environment and instead they should learn to prepare to be wrong, keep around multiple conflicting theories on uncertain things and not act rashly on what they think is most likely to be correct if a false positive seems clearly riskier than a false negative. But that's not really how you make it in this world, is it? People make it by confidently failing upward pandering to the biases of their superiors or audience. And that is the behavior everyone is taught to respect, and the cycle continues. So on both fronts of stopping the flow of misinfo and making people resistant to it, it seems more or less impossible to win the war at this point. It must be made winnable in the first place, which in itself would take confident risky maneuvers targeting weak points based on woefully incomplete understanding of how to bring the system to reach closer to ideality, while acting contrary to the ideal being fought for. My utopian vision is a system of experimental science tailored for all to participate in in some capacity so that they learn to judge certainty and uncertainty, apply a scientific sort of criticism and self-criticism, and take up the task of adding to society's knowledge rather than thinking of it as some outside institution's job. People aren't going to think critically and voice their criticism just because they are taught some abstract skills contrary to their base instincts, the only way to rationally develop one's instincts is countless repeats of the actions that one wants to become second nature.
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Jul 7, 2019 09:04
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The most important difference between a major news network, a rambling internet video 'news entertainiment' channel, and your grandma's Facebook page is basically budget. They're designed to be vectors for misinformation, not filters for it. This pattern of vectors gets you smooth flow, that pattern gets you turbulence. A pattern of vectors remains describable as such as it tears your society apart.
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