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WampaLord posted:The greater point that ManBoyChef appears to be making is that any sort of criticism of Democratic politicians or policies, no matter how valid, gets brushed aside and dismissed by posters who go "How can you possibly say the Democrats are bad? The Republicans are far worse!" over and over, not realizing that Democrats can still be bad even if the Republicans are far worse. I mean, this line of reasoning is frustrating because it's fallacious. Lets ride the relative privation train all the way to oblivion - "it's better than Trump!"
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Jul 21, 2020 15:08
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Trump was the best thing to ever happen to Democrats.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:19
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WampaLord posted:The greater point that ManBoyChef appears to be making is that any sort of criticism of Democratic politicians or policies, no matter how valid, gets brushed aside and dismissed by posters who go "How can you possibly say the Democrats are bad? The Republicans are far worse!" over and over, not realizing that Democrats can still be bad even if the Republicans are far worse. This is exactly what I mean. The fact we have not accepted and acknowledged the criticism of the democrats as a whole is what has led to the fact that they are just as much of a right wing pro corporate party as the republicans. Yes there is a certain wokeness you won't get with the republicans, but when it boils down to helping the poor, ensuring people have the power to stand up to corporations when they do them wrong, and having a little bit of autonomy in the workplace they are just as bad. Yes some people are helped by the ACA, but have you ever thought that this just isn't good enough and this is exactly what a republican plan in the nineties would be? The democrats just aren't good enough. All of us deserve so much better.
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Jul 21, 2020 15:48
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ManBoyChef posted:Indeed. This is one of the things that really aggravates me to no end about the USPOL thread. Anytime a person makes a point about how the parties are similar you have a bunch of people sarcastically saying "the parties are the same! the parties are the same!". Its annoying because it adds nothing to any conversation. No one thinks the parties are exactly the same but the fact remains we have two right wing pro corporate parties. Yes the republicans are worse but by how much. Lets say you have 100 dollars in your bank account and one group will take 90 of it and another group will take 98 of it. Yes one group is objectively worse, but in the end it doesn't really matter because both groups are bad enough that if you are poor losing any amount of money will be a huge hit on your life. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact those posters have some comfort in their life and can afford the energy to think about things beyond where their next meal is coming from or how they are going to afford their meds, or what they can do about their kids birthday this year. In their minds the difference between the parties being huge is so obvious that it doesn't even warrant serious thought. The fact that Democratic politicians give lip service to stuff like racism or police brutality makes the aesthetics very different, and that has the biggest influence on the way they (and most people, really) view politics. Basically, to them, it's completely insane to say anything negative about the Democrats (unless it pertains to "efficacy in fighting Republicans"), because the Republicans are such a dire threat (and their crimes are generally highlighted in the media they consume, while those of Democrats are ignored). They view it as something akin to focusing on bad allergies when someone has cancer. The partisan nature of US politics and politics coverage in the media prevents them from understanding that, in this analogy, cancer is "the bipartisan political consensus," not the Republican Party. But they can't help but categorize things in a partisan way and make comparisons primarily on those grounds. SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I don't get any insurance from aca, too poor. I did have to pay like 60 bucks because I didn't have insurance one year though Oh poo poo, you've summoned the people who will come and tell you that, actually, this is your fault for not properly taking advantage of subsidies.
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Jul 22, 2020 18:48
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Ytlaya posted:. One year I did get the subsidies and get some bronze tier coverage that I never used because it was too expensive, so that year the aca cost me about 200 bucks
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Jul 22, 2020 22:28
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Listening to Pod Save types complain about Trump getting rid of the individual shared responsibility provision is always so strange to hear.
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Jul 23, 2020 16:52
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Trump was the best thing to ever happen to Democrats. Yeah the various official party organs are doing dismally in fundraising, but somehow Biden and the party is gonna make it a cross the finish line when 95% of the party believes the seriousness of this virus while the opposition does not. I seriously question anybody going out to vote in November.
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Jul 23, 2020 18:37
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Nonsense posted:Yeah the various official party organs are doing dismally in fundraising, but somehow Biden and the party is gonna make it a cross the finish line when 95% of the party believes the seriousness of this virus while the opposition does not. I seriously question anybody going out to vote in November. The fact that they literally can't conceive of doing volunteering themselves, even when they have nothing else to do and believe it's of dire importance, does make it telling. Mind you, it seems at the moment centrist liberals are the most touchy and volatile people on the planet.
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Jul 24, 2020 09:33
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papa horny michael posted:Listening to Pod Save types complain about Trump getting rid of the individual shared responsibility provision is always so strange to hear.
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Jul 24, 2020 16:17
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Feldegast42 posted:Biden comes out in favor of the blackbagging gestapo I still recall that guy that just recommended upthread "if you don't want to vote for Biden at least get other people to vote for biden" telling me to "think about the safety of my family and friends" in reply to how I won't vote for Biden. Yeah, uh, Biden is not looking out for the safety of my family and friends if he's doing more of his fascist law and order stuff. Oh, and DNC just voted against M4A. Feelin' real safe now.
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Jul 29, 2020 18:45
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The Sean posted:I still recall that guy that just recommended upthread "if you don't want to vote for Biden at least get other people to vote for biden" telling me to "think about the safety of my family and friends" in reply to how I won't vote for Biden. Yeah, uh, Biden is not looking out for the safety of my family and friends if he's doing more of his fascist law and order stuff. Oh, and DNC just voted against M4A. Feelin' real safe now. Anarchy in US political discourse is a synonym for terrorism-lite. In the context of the quote it's clear Biden is referring to anachists as people who actively destroy federal/public property.
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Jul 29, 2020 19:21
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The worst submarine posted:Anarchy in US political discourse is a synonym for terrorism-lite. In the context of the quote it's clear Biden is referring to anachists as people who actively destroy federal/public property. Yeah, there's absolutely nothing weird or controversial about that very generic statement. If Biden were in charge he wouldn't be deploying jackbooted DHS thugs to smash peaceful protesters in the first place.
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Jul 29, 2020 19:27
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The worst submarine posted:Anarchy in US political discourse is a synonym for terrorism-lite. In the context of the quote it's clear Biden is referring to anachists as people who actively destroy federal/public property. Well, that's a problem, IMO. It reeks of Obama calling BLM thugs. Anarchy is dogwhistled as terrorism but it's a political ideology. You don't even have to destroy property to be be an anarchist. Taken literally, he's saying even if you're at a protest not being violent if you are an anarchist you should be arrested, which is a violation of the constitution. Taken figuratively in the way you suggest he's calling protestors terrorists which is also alarming fascist poo poo. Speaking of context "Peaceful protestors should be protected and arsonists and anarchists should be prosecuted." He's specifically stating that you're either a peaceful protestor or you should be locked up. Also no mention of "hey police shouldn't murder people." Recall that he was in power when the National Guard was deployed, among other agencies, to gently caress up the Dakota Access Pipeline protests. So, "[Obama and I] protected federal property. We were able to do it without the DHS turning into a private militia." lol (edit: lol @ biden, not you submarine). Note: I understand the National Guard is not under DHS specifically, but the irony of his statement is palpable and if he's only saying he won't use the DHS to break up protests as a technicality then that's, uh, not really progress. Lastly, Biden says employing police is just a political stunt for "failing Donald Trump [so sad!]" instead of Biden denouncing it and taking the side of the protests. No actual denouncing what police, etc., are doing to actual peaceful protestors that he's pretending to care about. And what many police are doing is breaking the law so you'd think, at least if he was honest, he'd care about them breaking the law, too. The takeaway is that if you vote for Biden you're fine with him not changing anything, not promoting progress, and calling for more "law and order" (another dog whistle from someone very responsible for hundreds of thousands of POC being locked up. Oh, and again, no M4A. Still not feeling like my "friends and family are safe" if I vote for him. The worst submarine posted:thank you for edit <3 Yeah, definitely, friend. I reread it and didn't want you to think I was mocking you specifically--just Biden's rhetoric. The goal of my post is to elaborate on what I had said and not be aggressive towards you but instead Biden's past, present, and statements for the future. The Sean fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jul 29, 2020 |
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Jul 29, 2020 20:08
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The Sean posted:Well, that's a problem, IMO. It reeks of Obama calling BLM thugs. Anarchy is dogwhistled as terrorism but it's a political ideology. You don't even have to destroy property to be be an anarchist. Taken literally, he's saying even if you're at a protest not being violent if you are an anarchist which is a violation of the constitution. Taken figuratively in the way you suggest he's calling protestors terrorists which is also alarming fascist poo poo.
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Jul 29, 2020 20:11
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How are u posted:Yeah, there's absolutely nothing weird or controversial about that very generic statement. If Biden were in charge he wouldn't be deploying jackbooted DHS thugs to smash peaceful protesters in the first place. Yes, that absolutely would not happen, the Democrats have a good relationship with leftist protestors and has never unfairly targeted them or tarred them with an overly wide brush, there is no track record of this ever happening in the Obama administration, and this text is just colored blue because it's pretty
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Jul 29, 2020 22:01
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How are u posted:Yeah, there's absolutely nothing weird or controversial about that very generic statement. If Biden were in charge he wouldn't be deploying jackbooted DHS thugs to smash peaceful protesters in the first place. Yeah, Biden's jackbooted thugs would probably be from an entirely different alphabet soup agency Seriously, what do you think would be happening re: the protests under Biden? Do you think they'll be allowed to continue? They're disruptive to the economy and Biden has promised his wealthiest donors that nothing will change. What do you genuinely think that Biden's response will be when the protests continue under his watch?
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Jul 29, 2020 23:20
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remember when BLM protested a Hillary event and got hauled off by private security, and the liberal reaction was scorn for BLM for protesting the good guys instead of the Republicans (nevermind that the murders that inspired the formation of BLM happened under a Democratic administration in Democratic cities and mostly Democratic-run states). It will be like that, the nanosecond Trump leaves office and the protests don't cease, liberals will switch from #resist to declaring them all anarchists and troublemakers and secret Republicans who want Trump to come back, who must all be put down by competent and efficient brute force
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Jul 29, 2020 23:53
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VitalSigns posted:remember when BLM protested a Hillary event and got hauled off by private security, and the liberal reaction was scorn for BLM for protesting the good guys instead of the Republicans (nevermind that the murders that inspired the formation of BLM happened under a Democratic administration in Democratic cities and mostly Democratic-run states). Biden rep: All legitimate protestors have gone home already, those that remain are illegitimate and will be black bagged and sent to the newly opened awareness camps in unmarked vans, no I will not define any of those terms
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Jul 29, 2020 23:59
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How are u posted:Yeah, there's absolutely nothing weird or controversial about that very generic statement. If Biden were in charge he wouldn't be deploying jackbooted DHS thugs to smash peaceful protesters in the first place. Unbelievably naive and ignorant of actual history. Do you somehow think that there's a clear, well defined line between "peaceful" and "violent" protests, and that those in power would even respect it?
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Jul 30, 2020 02:54
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Remind me, what happened to the Occupy protests again? And which president was in power when it happened?
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Jul 30, 2020 03:57
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Falstaff posted:Remind me, what happened to the Occupy protests again? And which president was in power when it happened? Also remind us what president presided over the Ferguson protetsts and how much effort their DOJ put into figuring out how all of said protest's leaders kept getting executed.
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Jul 30, 2020 22:49
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Falstaff posted:Remind me, what happened to the Occupy protests again? And which president was in power when it happened? BitcoinRockefeller posted:Also remind us what president presided over the Ferguson protetsts and how much effort their DOJ put into figuring out how all of said protest's leaders kept getting executed.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:24
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I'm sure that in a spirit of robust, good-faith debate How are u will absolutely be coming back to this thread to answer those questions, and won't wait until they think we've forgotten them before coming in to drop another spicy take.
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Jul 31, 2020 01:39
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It's okay, I'm sure the Democrats will take a progressive stance on something completely uncontroversial any second now. https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1288977791854182400 Any second now...
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Jul 31, 2020 15:34
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Pussy Cartel posted:It's okay, I'm sure the Democrats will take a progressive stance on something completely uncontroversial any second now. Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward 
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Jul 31, 2020 15:37
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward If this and the recent platform votes where the DNC ruled against things like Medicare for All (which is strongly favoured by the party's own base) and marijuana legalization (which is hugely popular in general) haven't given you any indication that the Democratic Party is completely disinterested in ever acknowledging progressives or leftists and their interests, I don't know what to tell you. Especially on top of all the money and power they're throwing behind challengers to their few remotely progressive politicians. The Democratic Party isn't going to shift leftward in the time left before the consequences of global warming and the failing American state fully come home to roost, if they ever will at all, and no amount of disingenuousness and sniping is going to change that fact.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:47
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward no just throw out the bad half by not voting for them
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Jul 31, 2020 15:47
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Biden has the most progressive platform of any presidential candidate in history.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:56
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward What is your strategy for pulling them leftward? What is your evidence that this works? This person... Pussy Cartel posted:If this and the recent platform votes where the DNC ruled against things like Medicare for All (which is strongly favoured by the party's own base) and marijuana legalization (which is hugely popular in general) haven't given you any indication that the Democratic Party is completely disinterested in ever acknowledging progressives or leftists and their interests, I don't know what to tell you. Especially on top of all the money and power they're throwing behind challengers to their few remotely progressive politicians. ...actually provided arguments and evidence. At large, people that respond like the dude with the ableist smilie never provide evidence just "it's how things are supposed to work!" and other fanfictions. The Sean fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jul 31, 2020 |
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Jul 31, 2020 15:57
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward
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Jul 31, 2020 16:38
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward "Aaaaaaany day now! here we go! it's comin'! Just vote! The Virginia plan! Incremental chan-", I cry as I'm curbstomped by a cop for having the gall to protest my imminent eviction, or that they stop murdering black kids, or that our billionaire oligarchs stop poisoning my water supply, or that we do something -- anything -- to even slow down the climate apocalypse, or that I get just a modicum of help dealing with my cancer and it not causing my family to be cast into generational debt, or that maybe we could organize the economy in such a way that a dozen people are hundred-billionaires but I have to work three jobs, none of which give me any sort of benefit or protection besides the absolute minimum they can pay me, or that it doesn't cost me two thirds of my entire income to not be homeless. But - get this - the cop has a rainbow flag pin! Nice!!!
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Jul 31, 2020 16:42
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The democrats just threatened to fully reinstate the powers of superdelegates for 2024 if the Bernie delegates proposed controversial things like more early voting, extended voting hours, more mail voting, or moving away from caucuses. The way you move the democrats left is by making sure that the people trying to block these measures have no power.
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Jul 31, 2020 16:50
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward Well we could just vote out the bad ones, but every time we try to do that we get told that we need to vote for them no matter how bad they are.
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Jul 31, 2020 17:01
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Angry_Ed posted:Oh no half the Democrats are bad guess we should throw the entire party out then instead of trying to keep pulling things leftward its been a magical week hasn't it https://twitter.com/BrentWelder/status/1288949050386022401?s=20 https://twitter.com/jessicaramos/status/1288936647439134720?s=20 https://twitter.com/People4Bernie/status/1287848244135907328?s=20 https://twitter.com/wideofthepost/status/1287938340306726912?s=20 https://twitter.com/jacobkornbluh/status/1287859564705132544?s=20 https://twitter.com/JoeConchaTV/status/1287162863124131840?s=20 https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1288212348780544002?s=20 https://twitter.com/walkerbragman/status/1288983169526620162?s=21 https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1247920858443714562?s=20
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Jul 31, 2020 17:05
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papa horny michael posted:Biden has the most progressive platform of any presidential candidate in history. That's sad af
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Jul 31, 2020 21:01
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I'm disappointed. Like, Kevin Sorbo disappointed. And I wasn't even expecting anything.
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Aug 1, 2020 00:08
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Bootleg Trunks posted:its been a magical week hasn't it
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Aug 1, 2020 04:48
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In theory, Biden could be bullied into accepting reforms because aside from being an old and stagnant piece of garbage, he is a pathetic worm who stands for nothing. There have been a number of more progressive candidates for congress that made headway during the primaries, and if the democrats don't entirely sabotage their entire party across the board just to spite them, that could lead to something better. Even outside congressional dealings, it's more likely that once in power, he would be more prone to listening to mass protests. And the alternative presidential candidate is, I am not overstating this, literally a mass murderer. So whatever solace you take from refusing to choose the best of the options available to you will be hollow as he finds new and exciting ways of creating suffering that you never expected.
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Aug 1, 2020 17:39
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Every president before him was also literally a mass murderer. Joe Biden was at least an accomplice to mass murder with his support for the Iraq War.
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Aug 1, 2020 17:55
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Fister Roboto posted:Every president before him was also literally a mass murderer. Joe Biden was at least an accomplice to mass murder with his support for the Iraq War. It's not good, I'll give you that. I would cut him some slack since almost the entire political establishment lost their minds around that time and it's another incident of Biden being a spineless worm and going along with the flow, which would imply that he wouldn't have the ambition to start a war himself. Mathematically, more Americans died from the US's mismanagement of the pandemic than they did in total in every war the US has fought since the 50s, and internationally the crippling of the CDC can be blamed for a considerable amount of the 680k deaths worldwide, since the CDC was previously instrumental in containing past potential pandemics. That is the cost in blood of the dismantlement of the country's institutions, and when the next big hurricanes come, they will once again be disastrous. On top of that, there's the literal attack forces being sent out across the country, which you have to do a lot of false equivalency to equate to much of anything Biden's done.
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Aug 1, 2020 19:12
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