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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Voting in America is a nightmare that both parties would like to make even more difficult so that the only people who vote are white suburbanites Hey guys, when you hate non-leftists enough, their words can mean whatever you want them to mean! Their actions can be toward whatever end you want them to be toward! https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1/text If Democrats aren't as bad as Republicans why do I keep insisting that they are???
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May 18, 2019 20:32
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I guess Dems haven't been down with voter disenfranchisement in the past because of this one bill that may or may not pass Denying the existence of the Southern Strategy is usually something right-wing racists do. I mean, your position is that Democrats want, SECRETLY, to cripple their own electoral chances. Because they just... love white supremacy so much?
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May 18, 2019 20:36
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Lmao what the gently caress are you even on What are the previous Democratic attempts at voter suppression you're referring to if not Jim Crow-era? And, follow up, why should I give a poo poo about them? Because I have time believing they're, uh, recent.
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May 18, 2019 20:38
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Radish posted:https://www.usnews.com/news/the-run/articles/2019-04-23/pete-buttigieg-breaks-with-bernie-sanders-on-voting-rights-for-prisoners Oh no, the Mayor of loving South Bend who's going to get 5% in Iowa. My political party has been proven to be an arm of the KKK! Plenty of Democrats oppose prisoners voting, of course (and, every single Republican, literally every single one), unfortunately, but that's a pretty small subset of this conversation. Opposition on the not-right to prisoners voting is just some reflection of stupid just-world knee jerk impulses; it's bad, bad as hell, but it's not exactly coming from the same place as Voter ID laws and closing polling stages and purging voter rolls. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 20:40
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Keep linking to individual opinions about a very specific issue; I'm sure eventually you'll prove that B2 isn't totally full of poo poo about Democrats totally suppressing the vote all the time, seriously, for real dudes, it's like all they do. EDIT: You guys are just gish galloping this poo poo, and it's weird that we've gotten here when this whole thread is about how cool and good not voting is. Prisoner voting should totally happen, but it's: 1. Overturning a very long-established precedent 2. Massively, crazily unpopular with the electorate 3. Only a small part of voter access issues. 4. Not yet part of any official proposal or proposed legislation. 5. Not really relevant to the topic of this thread at all. B2 said that the Democratic party only wants white people in suburbs voting. That's objectively wrong and doesn't even match his conception of the party leaders as self-interested ghouls. He might as well have said the sky was red. Christ. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 20:51 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 20:44
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quote not edit (drat, you never think it'll happen to you until it does, huh?)
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May 18, 2019 20:46
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Hammering on one example is not a Gish gallop you dweeb OK, just regular ol' goalposts, then. Look at the post of yours I originally responded to. It's not really strange to me that you would want to nudge the subject away from your indefensible statements. I forgive you.
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May 18, 2019 20:53
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I think the real reason politicians don't want prisoners voting is that they don't want prisoners doing any form of political organizing. Because they might start having some complaints about how our whole prison system is just a giant, towering, privatized eight amendment violation. But I suppose that's getting off topic.
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May 18, 2019 20:56
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There's one political party that has basically dedicated itself to exacerbating the worst instincts of white people: their vindictiveness, their rigid refusal to cede their place in society, their racism and selfishness. So, you know, make sure not to vote against them! The other party isn't perfect, either!
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May 18, 2019 21:28
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Willie Tomg posted:People don't believe me when I say that D&D is the only actually hilarious forum on SA anymore but where else are you going to get purportedly smart people calling the LBJ administration "a big [electoral] win" LBJ’s administration was a big win for left-wing policies, the last time any left-wing policy passed, really. Everybody knows his foreign policy was GWB-level bad or worse, you’re not owning anybody here.
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May 20, 2019 17:59
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Trabisnikof posted:Then how can you hypothesize with such certainty about what Trump 2020 would do for SCOTUS picks (and the consequences) if you think we can't determine the state of the senate? Trump + D senate strikes me as being massively less likely than Biden + R senate. And both scenarios have the same result: no new judges (unless the Dems really wuss out, which is of course possible). We know what Trump + R senate does.
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May 21, 2019 21:23
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Prester Jane posted:The whole problem with your entire approach is that a huge portion of the human population fundamentally does not, and never will, function in a way we're in your approach makes sense. Your approach makes sense for you, but too many people simply do not reason like you do and as such mass adoption of your strategy is a guaranteed failure. Hmmmm. That’s perceptive! I wonder if anybody else could stand to listen to that.
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May 29, 2019 20:28
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Prester Jane posted:Voting for the Lesser evil is the status quo, and the status quo has demonstrably failed in each and every conceivable meaning of the word "failed". Man call me crazy but I feel like enabling another four years of the same idiot racist leader is a drat strange way to fight “the status quo”. Literally nothing could be more “status quo”. How do you think you’re helping? Trying to make poo poo better is what primaries are for. A [bad] general is for keeping it from getting worse.
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May 29, 2019 21:01
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Pulcinella di Bund posted:4 more years of a different , racist idiot is not the status quo ? This is the same argument they do every single election . The republican eats babies ! Vote for the democrat , who eats the babies behind closed doors . Life must be so hard when your brain is binary-wired this god drat hard. “Potato? That’s a nightshade, bro, if you don’t have any delicious sandwiches I’ll keep shoving this rat poison in my face. It’s all poisonous so who cares?”
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May 29, 2019 21:20
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Prester Jane posted:God drat the privilege is just dripping off this post. Imagine telling a minority who is unhappy about their rights being betrayed by their own leadership that they they are incapable of understanding nuance. Yes but telling that same minority that no, they can’t have any relief whatsoever from their abhorrent leadership, because “we gotta take down this WALL, man!” is brave and right and good. Let the minorities decide for themselves and don’t use them as your rhetorical chits. Almost all the people I see around here who are polishing up their 2020 non-participation trophies are young white men. I know that doesn’t describe you and you can speak for your own minorit(ies) but even within them many will disagree with you strongly.
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May 29, 2019 21:47
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I made my post knowing you were trans. You’re one of the most famous posters on this forum. You don’t win the argument by being trans, sorry. Yesterday in the Primary thread a trans woman was getting slammed for saying she would vote blue no matter who and none of those assholes gave a poo poo about her gender. I guess “centrists” deserve what they get, minority status not withstanding.
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May 29, 2019 22:01
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There are tens of millions of minorities in this country. The vast majority are not trans. Even if you were the Supreme Ruler and Advocate for all trans folk - and you aren’t - it would be (is, I suppose) inappropriate as poo poo for you to claim total, unimpeachable moral high ground by mere invocation of the word “minority”. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 29, 2019 22:55
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Prester Jane posted:I've never even vaguely intimated that I speak for anyone but myself or the people who have publicly supported me in these debates. Please stop trying to make this discussion about me instead of the point I'm making. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you made it about you, but maybe I'm misremembering. It was so long ago. I think it's totally fair to say that I haven't suffered any ill effects from the Trump presidency, except for the constant frustration I feel. For many reasons, including the demographic ones you mentioned, I'm pretty insulated, and the things that might have made him a threat to me (mental health issues) are more or less in the past (with treatment). Anyway, my privilege aside, I genuinely think that Biden would be a better president for minorities than Trump, even if he would be worse than basically ever other Dem candidate (not counting nobodies like Tim Ryan). So if I didn't vote for him, wouldn't that be neglecting the needs of minorities, in my perception? Maybe because of my position in society I'm seeing things totally wrong, but I don't think the roster of "people who think Biden would be preferable to Trump for minorities" is composed entirely of straight white men from middle class backgrounds...? Anyway, this whole debate is so silly. There's no "right" answer. I don't agree with your reasons and you don't agree with mine, and that's very unlikely to change. I have a lot of respect for you and your experience because of the posts you made under your deadname, long ago, that really spoke to me when I was having my own mental health crises, so this has been a little extra disappointing. One thing I think we can both agree on is that it would be a loving travesty if Biden won the Dem primary. Long way to go.
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May 29, 2019 23:41
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Radish posted:Nancy Pelosi is not helping the idea that voting in the mid terms has much use I’m pretty irritated with Pelosi right now; it’s hard to imagine anybody who has made electoral politics their clear first priority and then also done so little to help the Democrat’s electoral standing. I wonder if she really believes her “Trump wants to be impeached!!!” BS or if it’s just her excuse for her not doing something she doesn’t want to do. That said, a Democratic house immediately prevented the chance of any more giant, terrible tax or healthcare bills, or an infrastructure bill that’s just free money for developers*. That said, “we maybe prevented some imaginary stuff!” is hard to rally people around, whether it’s true or not. Going a tad off topic, it really limits the power of the dem house that they can’t do anything about appointments. This administration is driving home how massively important appointment power is, both judicial and executive. The extra power that the executive has been building since Reagan is having the side effect of making the Senate markedly more powerful than the House. Which is bad for the reasons the Senate is bad. * Not certain that she doesn’t want to pass this and Trump just won’t play along but specifics on infrastructure from everybody in DC have been hilariously lacking. Probably cause no one gives a poo poo.
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May 30, 2019 16:04
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People seem to be talking past each other. I think we all get that there are major problems with Democratic leadership and priorities. How, though, does not voting for Democrats in two-party elections work to fight that leadership? On the finer grain we’ve been discussing, how does not voting for the Democrat help women keep and get rights?
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Jun 1, 2019 01:27
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I would just like to take a second and note that nobody even came close to addressing, let alone answering my questions. E: actually, Ghost Leviathan did, but acknowledged that the hypothetical reason is not reflected in real life results. I guess I feel, for context, I should explain what the benefit of voting for the Democrat is: every issue they aren’t poo poo on? Voting rights, Medicaid, criminal justice, whatever. I’m not familiar with Bel Edwards, he might just be garbage across the board (WV’s Jim Justice was, before he admitted to being a Republican). But in cases where it’s a mixed bag vs. a poo poo bag... there is an apparent benefit to the mixed bag, so what hidden cost is incurred by having them in office over the poo poo bag? Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 02:18
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Unoriginal Name posted:It's because your question is objectively loving stupid and the answer is painfully obvious I can understand an argument for how voting doesn’t help. How does it hurt?
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Jun 1, 2019 02:41
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Prester Jane posted:I just love how none of the privileged chickenshits who think that other people should sacrifice their human rights has enough chutzpah to come in this thread and defend their positions. Who have you been arguing with?
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Jun 5, 2019 18:44
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:the people who find "but what if we made the extermination of Palestinians carbon-neutral" a sign of intelligence are a never-ending source of wonder poo poo like this is so stupid. Warren has bog-standard Israel policy for US politicians, which is loving terrible but you know she doesn’t support genocide. (“Dead gay comedy forum!”) (And I do not agree with Ogmius815 that Warren is smarter than Bernie. They’re both plenty smart.) Prester Jane, if you want to know why a minority, a black person specifically, would support Biden, why don’t you ask them? It’s extremely frustrating to me and all of us but many black people support Biden, more than any other candidate. You and I think they’re wrong as all hell but I’m sure they have their reasons. As a middle class white male I have no standing to guess at their reasoning. Please get back to us when you find out, thanks! Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jun 22, 2019 |
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Jun 22, 2019 19:07
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Could people elaborate on what they believe the alternatives to “electoralism” to be?
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Jul 3, 2019 14:43
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I guess I shouldn’t worry about the strong, intractable correlation between gun ownership and terrible political opinions. Thanks for answering the question, anyway.
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Jul 3, 2019 16:38
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Maybe everybody who isn't LGBT or a racial or ethnic minority should stop speaking for them, because that's pretty much all this god forsaken thread is (except for PJ's posts, which are actually even worse than all the others). Even if you are in a vulnerable class, you're not actually expressing anybody's opinion but your own.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:32
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Rappaport posted:Weren't you the one crying about "posting about posters" earlier? That was a different thread, and I'm not sure I would classify my sentence fragment on the issue "crying", but sure. That post I made here was a post about posting which is probably still pretty bad, yeah, but it's a different thing. Don't cry about it or anything.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:50
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There is value in discussing the moral question of how bad the "better" candidate can be before they're no longer worth voting for, but it seems to me that this thread has become about "will Biden be better than Trump?", which is not a moral question. We're all just guessing about Biden is going to do, so maybe we shouldn't judge people on a moral level because they have a different opinion on that particular prognostication. There are legitimate arguments to be made that Biden will be significantly better, and arguments that he won't (and I think those arguments are actually being put forth pretty well on both sides). If, say, you are mad that people aren't going to vote for Biden because you think he's going to be better for LGBT/immigrants/whoever, and somebody says, "no, he won't be better for those people so I'm not going to vote for him", you're not actually arguing about whether it's right to vote for Biden, you're arguing about what a Biden presidency will look like. Which is not a moral argument. I don't know. Just trying to organize this nonsense in my mind. I'm actually not sure what I'm going to do should a Trump vs. Biden ballot come before me, although I think after the partisanship-boosting effects of a nasty general election I'll probably end up caving.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:00
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WampaLord posted:There are about 800 people browsing D&D right now. Sure, it's only 800 people, but we're all so charismatic and influential!
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Mar 31, 2020 20:13
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Cerebral Bore posted:The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop. At the time somebody would be hypothetically voting for Biden, they would not really know that GOP will control the Senate (although it will be likely they will). Also, there could be negative consequences for the GOP going forward to pulling that stunt again, with unpredictable results (maybe it's the difference between Competent Fascist winning and losing!) As opposed to if Trump is in office, in which case, well, the strengthening of their majority is rubber stamped.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:45
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PenguinKnight posted:yeah we’re pretty much at the point where if we ever want to retake scotus we need the senate and to pack the court, no matter who the dems run If I had to bet on how a Biden Supreme Court nom would go, I'd say after two or three months of the Republicans stonewalling a Garland-type nominee, Biden will just nominate a bog-standard right wing Federalist Society ghoul, except he'll be gay or something. I hope I'm wrong but that's probably where the smart money is.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:51
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SimonCat posted:Why do people remember FDR so fondly for Social Security but no on gives LBJ credit for Medicare? The bad thing about Trump passing single payer is that partisan Dems would irrationally hate it forever (the same way Republicans still hate Medicare).
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Apr 3, 2020 18:09
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People’s belief is “what we have been doing hasn’t been working”, which is very true, but they decide that since what we’ve been doing hasn’t been working, they don’t have to explain how whatever different thing they’re going to do will work. Me I’ll just freely admit to having no idea what to do.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:10
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Things can get worse, which means when we explore our alternatives to “same old poo poo” we have to at least have a guess of how things are going to work out. There are much, much worse futures than than the one that begins with “Joe Biden becomes President and predictably sucks”. Still. Nothing ventured nothing gained. People are going to disagree on how to weigh this kind of stuff and what the short term, let alone long term consequences of different actions will be.
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Apr 4, 2020 23:45
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Unoriginal Name posted:could you point out the people who are voting for Trump please Um. Please try to keep up. The post you quoted is from a discussion about voting for Trump.
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Apr 6, 2020 17:38
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If Hillary losing didn't make the Democratic Party see that milquetoast centrist liberals are a losing proposition I don't really see why Joe losing would.
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Apr 8, 2020 17:39
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Ytlaya posted:I don't think these people realize how genuinely bizarre it is for anyone who is supposedly "on the left" to enjoy listening to Pod Save America. When’s the last time you listened to it? How much have you listened to it, in hours, if you had to approximate? I haven’t listened to it at all in months but I’m pretty comfortable listening to anybody talk poo poo about Trump. If they’re interviewing some Pete Peterson flack or something, yeah, that’s different.
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Jul 16, 2020 22:08
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Well firstly, I would never claim to be “on the left” in D&D because of the gatekeeping. So yeah, you guys have not the slightest loving clue what the show is about, it’s just another one of your markers of tribal loyalty to hate it. You probably think the show is mostly hippie-punching, which is projection. It’s not a great show, arguably not even a good one, but this green eggs and ham nonsense is stupid. There are plenty of things for you to hate that you’re presumably even passingly familiar with.
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Jul 16, 2020 22:35
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I mean, just saying, “listening to this show would definitely make me physically ill, oh by the way I’ve never listened to it” is a classic idiot move. FWIW I’m sure you would all hate the show very much. So carry on assuming that you would, there’s no functional difference. Anyway, I’ve contributed to a derail. I apologize.
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Jul 16, 2020 22:45
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