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I'm not really sympathetic to Hugo since he's actively hosed over people for a period of time when he could have ended this whole mess himself since he had access to the Atheme after causing Corvo's death. His main motivation was trampling over the people who perpetuate the lovely system that he's a part of while also partaking in it himself rather than wanting the system to change for the better or be destroyed. The dude's only ever been in it for himself, he's an rear end in a top hat.
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Jul 3, 2019 18:47
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LashLightning posted:It's off-putting and sudden that Rei went immediately back to giggling child after showing some form of maturity in the robot. It would seem that she should understand the situation as she says that she has access to Sintranet's computer system. I have a feeling that Rei was deliberately acting more childish just to annoy Hugo.
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Jul 3, 2019 19:08
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I think the Chapman/Hugo thing is really super interesting. I'm QUITE sympathetic towards Hugo - if Sintracorp is rotten from the inside, it's clear that it doesn't have a patch on society at large. Look at how we're degraded for being class G - just four levels below Sosa. We took a job, sight unseen, at a desperate chance to improve our station, and we aren't REMOTELY the lowest tier. It's not even clear that Hugo is - who knows how far down it goes. Hugo lived his life learning that absolutely nothing would be given to him, that he basically existed to be a vent for the frustrations and anger of everybody else, while doing their dirty work. But does that truly absolve somebody of their actions? Hugo wants POWER, and doesn't (seem to) much care what he does with it. Look at him before we stole the Athame, he was just idly spinning in his chair and hopping around. He doesn't really know what anybody does (except the janitors and witch hunters). His wish when he talked with Corvo was power, and specifically to be "above everybody else". It's not like he has no concept of right and wrong - he knows that he was treated poorly, and that the system was 'wrong' in that sense. He also knows how to disguise his intentions, which is difficult if you don't have a good understanding of what's considered good or bad. Hugo is a remarkable person, struggling with this combination of unchecked id (he vandalizes everything, calls dirty jokes to HR, and, when he puts his frog mask on, apparently loses ALL restraint) and paranoid ambition. He's got absolutely no desire to have a real relationship with anybody, but he still wants to "have" friends - why else set up his own party? I kind of have this dualistic idea - it's really hard to exactly BLAME him. He's completely devoid of compassion, sure, but he wasn't shown any until he found "Mr. Hugo's" id. At the same time, I don't think he's completely broken mentally. He's not ACTUALLY insane - he's justified his actions to himself with his upbringing, and is indulging his twin desires, for mayhem and power. Rei might be a petulant child, and, uh, I would be a lot more comfortable with her in charge if there was anybody who could act as a check to her, but she's (probably?) not anywhere as bad as Hugo. Chapman on the other hand is a giant ignoramus. He's had things handed to him his whole life, and so has this vast set of experiences of personal connection and compassion to draw from. He didn't apply this to anybody below him in class, because he was told (and believed) that they were somehow sub-human. Chapman is doing well, but it's also true, as was pointed out, that he was ALLOWED to. He's got the necessary patterns of kindness and inclusion from how he interacted with others of his class, and simply learned to apply that to others. At least a little - he's probably still going to be an rear end. So the interesting question is - how much do we hate or praise the players, knowing that the game is very, VERY broken? Edit: Also, one of my favorite things about the game is how much clever little foreshadowing bits there are. Remember this magazine from the cafeteria? 
Bacter fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 19:20
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First off: The seemingly random Japanese aesthetics make much more sense that now we know its Brazil, Brazil having the largest population of Japanese origin outside of Glorious Nippon itself. Also, I would make a semi-informed guess that Mr. Spader is the devil, and more specifically Lucifer. Very stylish, handsome blonde man in smart casual clothing? Knows much more than he lets on? Strange taste in art? Asks very pointed and relevant questions that dig into the character of the protagonist? Yeah hes the lightbringer. Honestly, though, chalk me up as one person who doesnt like the final stretch sequence. Its a departure from the slow, agonizing oppression of the rest of the game. Its a frantic dash that imo does the game no real favors. The atmosphere the game has been working up to all along is put aside. As well as the filthy, messy, bloody, grime covered, Silent Hill Otherworld area designs. And the ending and reveal is too neat and tidy for my taste, to be expected of the completionist one. But that will probably be fixed in the alt-endings. Though the snake necklace still being on Domoris neck means that it could still happen again.... Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 3, 2019 |
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Jul 3, 2019 19:48
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that ending left me feeling that everything's still hosed up
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Jul 3, 2019 20:40
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Prav posted:that ending left me feeling that everything's still hosed up Yeah in most ways it is. The employees of this one megacorp aren't supernaturally oppressed anymore, but that megacorp doesn't provide any products or services to the world at large, so most of the world won't even notice. The real question is, without the supernatural ability to keep the company funded by playing market games or whatever the witch did to keep the lights on, whether the company collapses in a month. Brian pulled out some real heroics, but he didn't and can't solve that problem. The rest of the city is still a stratified dystopia. Still Brian can breathe underwater now so that's pretty cool.
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Jul 4, 2019 00:56
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Also, I would make a semi-informed guess that Mr. Spader is the devil, and more specifically Lucifer. Very stylish, handsome blonde man in smart casual clothing? Knows much more than he lets on? Strange taste in art? Asks very pointed and relevant questions that dig into the character of the protagonist? Yeah hes the lightbringer. Yeah, that's my guess as well. Being blonde and dressed in all white really gives him some Helel vibes.
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Jul 4, 2019 01:53
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Prav posted:that ending left me feeling that everything's still hosed up The sign of a proper cyberpunk conclusion 
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Jul 4, 2019 02:04
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Prav posted:that ending left me feeling that everything's still hosed up I mean, I’m not even sure the main problem is resolved. Domori still has to be kept constantly happy to keep the snake in line, and her main keeper is back to being a volatile, moody pre-teen who will eventually gently caress up again and the only person who knows all of this has decided to just gently caress off back to the suburbs. Given how suddenly Rei was back in her body and her sudden personality change, and the neat tidy bow wrapped around everything that falls apart as soon as you give it any thought, I’m not sure we got the Brian-best ending so much as the Hugo-worst ending.
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Jul 4, 2019 02:33
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Mzbundifund posted:Still Brian can breathe underwater now so that's pretty cool. In the end, the real treasure was skeleton warrior posted:
I mean, let’s be honest. The Brian-best ending is leaving before we sign the contract. Bacter fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jul 4, 2019 |
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Jul 4, 2019 02:55
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I mean... we did help make everyone else's lives a little less witchy and better. And, again, I think Rei was acting immature just to piss Hugo off. She was a bit better about that in the Sintra robot body.
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Jul 4, 2019 03:22
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Bacter posted:In the end, the real treasure was I mean, Brian is now A-Class and possibly has a girlfriend along with a number of other friends. I think things turned out pretty well for him. Oh, and also a ton of money.
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Jul 4, 2019 03:23
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Junpei posted:And, again, I think Rei was acting immature just to piss Hugo off. She was a bit better about that in the Sintra robot body. I'll buy that, though it felt like an odd tonal shift to me. Did we get any actual explanation of what the snake actually is? It seems like it's just some sort of manifestation of Domori's unhappiness, but I guess it could be an explicitly separate entity given it bopping off and talking to her, and Rei treating it like something else. Also, the snake...fight? I'm not even sure it can be called that, frankly - felt weirdly anticlimactic. Is there a way to fail that or something? It seemed like you just kinda hopped onto the snake, dealt with it wiggling a little, and then climbed up and did the thing and that was it.
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Jul 4, 2019 03:25
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Ayndin posted:
yeah, for a final boss fight it was WAY less interesting than the party fight/library fight. Incidentally, you can try using the plastic knife on the Domori Crystal....it goes about as well as one can expect 
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Jul 4, 2019 04:08
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Of course Brian has to stay. Now that the witch business is taken care of we have the perfect cast for a workplace sitcom.
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Jul 4, 2019 04:18
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Mzbundifund posted:The real question is, without the supernatural ability to keep the company funded by playing market games or whatever the witch did to keep the lights on, whether the company collapses in a month. The company's rise was off the back of the magic of a happy Domori good luck charm, so now that she's back I imagine the company will do well again. That said skeleton warrior posted:Domori still has to be kept constantly happy to keep the snake in line, and her main keeper is back to being a volatile, moody pre-teen who will eventually gently caress up again
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Jul 4, 2019 06:53
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It's OK. Since Domori is a robot now, they can just SET happy=TRUE as a read-only variable. It's interesting that Domori and Rei just kind of swap bodies without comment.
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Jul 4, 2019 07:06
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It was a little weird that happened completely without comment but I guess if Domori did it once no reason she couldn't do it again.
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Jul 4, 2019 07:08
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Eopia posted:I mean, Brian is now A-Class and possibly has a girlfriend along with a number of other friends. I think things turned out pretty well for him. Oh, and also a ton of money. But surely he has some pretty severe PTSD too at this point I'd presume, so I'm not certain it's a net gain for him.
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Jul 4, 2019 13:38
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Bacter posted:I mean, let’s be honest. The Brian-best ending is leaving before we sign the contract. Was there any kind of threat that if the Witch wasn't taken care of, its influence would spread outside the company? I was kind of unclear on that.
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Jul 4, 2019 13:47
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Ayndin posted:Did we get any actual explanation of what the snake actually is? It seems like it's just some sort of manifestation of Domori's unhappiness, but I guess it could be an explicitly separate entity given it bopping off and talking to her, and Rei treating it like something else. I also thought it was a fully separate entity. it seemed like some kind of magical guardian that she was in control of, until she agreed to its plan and let it off the leash (so to speak) but i don't know if that fits neatly into whatever mythological creature Domori is or what
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Jul 4, 2019 15:58
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Is Mr. Spader the snake? White suit, general devilishness...
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Jul 4, 2019 16:29
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That might fit. A lot of us have figured Spader's the one in the Devil costume, and the Devil's the one that takes your senses when one of the Snakes catches you...
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Jul 4, 2019 16:36
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Domori is a witch, but her snake is her familiar. It seems when Domori grew dissatisfied enough, the familiar was able to use her powers for itself to start wreaking havoc. Somehow. And, as people have pointed out, the snake is on Domori Bot's neck so its entirely possible that this could happen again. Maybe. Side note, you guys should probably follow that link Sosa gave us.
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Jul 4, 2019 16:50
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So you figure all the people who got Witched were wrapped up in like mummy wraps or spider silk or something, right? Or maybe it was snake coils ohhhhh shiiiiit
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Jul 4, 2019 17:21
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Only just found this LP and binged right through it, good stuff. One thing I wonder though, with Brian being a pretty obvious devil-surrogate and all the talk of women becoming witches by drinking the devil's blood, are there any instances women drinking his blood, metaphorically speaking? He ended up bleeding for Rei when Hugo punched him, and her becoming CEO ended on a fairly sinister note. There's also the on-going thing with his coffee-date with Kate, and she became a witch-surrogate because of his presence. Then again it ended with her handing him coffee rather than vice versa so who knows. Also Brian's cast as both devil and hunter, simultaneously filling the roles of making and ending witches, so I guess it's appropriate that he ends up doing neither in the end.
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Jul 4, 2019 23:30
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Personally, I want to believe that things are going to better now in this company at least. What worries me is if this company has used magic to get where it is how many others have as well. I mean at the very least there does seem to be so kind of Masquerade given how Brian was all like magic and witches that's all superstition. Though maybe not a strong one given how accepting everyone including Brian is of everything that happens.
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Jul 5, 2019 01:11
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Also on a note of thematic consistency, there's frequent talk of a lack of bosses and how you need a new CEO to fix the situation, then ultimately it turns out the witch was dormant all along while her familiar was running the show. Both the corporate and curse sides had subordinates as antagonists with nobody above them to tell them to cut that poo poo out.
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Jul 5, 2019 06:29
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Yuppie Psycho is pro-management propaganda!
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Jul 5, 2019 06:58
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Thanks for the LP! Between the word salad title, the awful minimalist-retro-indie overworld sprites and the vaporwave obsession that dates a story much closer to 2019 than 1990, I never would have thought this game knew what it was doing and passed on it none the wiser. Guess that's why you shouldn't judge a book by its anime cover. The Hugo stuff has been fascinating, though I think we still have a bit more to see. Jenny Maple or whatever would be a fun throwback (the first LP of yours I saw was Colonel's Bequest) and I've heard great things about Darkwood. I don't think you can go wrong for your next LP, but whatever you do for the love of god don't hoard your lighting items to the point where they outnumber your pencils 20:1 as you run around in the dark
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Jul 5, 2019 09:17
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I love how sb hermit fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 5, 2019 |
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Jul 5, 2019 19:18
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So did we see why Parsnip got chosen for witch hunter duty? A strange whim of the witch/familiar? A random bug in the Sintranet? Or some actual special something that I don't recall being elaborated on?
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Jul 5, 2019 22:13
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I think the implication is that the system picks random low classes, and dangles a fat wad of cash, as well as promotion to class A as an incentive. Disposable grunts for the meat grinder, if you will.
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Jul 5, 2019 22:39
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What do you think Brian did that was different that allowed him to succeed?
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Jul 6, 2019 03:47
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Mraagvpeine posted:What do you think Brian did that was different that allowed him to succeed? Player controls him. If he was no different, we wouldn't have a story.
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Jul 6, 2019 05:09
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Bothered to learn peoples first name.
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Jul 6, 2019 09:28
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Extensive healing power from food.
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Jul 6, 2019 09:41
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Item hoarding
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Jul 6, 2019 10:25
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this just happens to be the one universe out of an infinite number of trillion universes where his predecessors died and kate was friendly enough that brian decided to stay and allow his morals to overcome his judgment it did not hurt that sosa is pretty cool anyone want to guess at the number of universes where brian was "pc load letter"-ed by the dot matrix? yes, I know that dot matrix printers typically use continuous fan fold and not a paper cassette
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Jul 6, 2019 10:37
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brian did not succeed. he has not killed the witch.
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Jul 6, 2019 10:58
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