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Vinny Testaverde almost never played with actual wide receivers. He spent long stretches forcing the ball to the likes of Lawrence Dawsey and Michael Jackson and poo poo. I'm not saying he was a buried superstar or something, but just giving him Keyshawn Johnson and Wayne Chrebret made him go  Then he just played loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong after his sell-by date lmao
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Jun 11, 2019 16:32
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1996 Ravens were probably a playoff team if not for the defense falling apart due to injuries. Testaverde also had Derrick Alexander to throw to those years and he was pretty good. I wasnt watching much then cause I didnt care for football. But they had lots of games against top QBs and offensively they held their own! Just defensively they were *that* bad.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:01
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i like to see the placement of each Qback in their team's all-time ranking. i'm loving it. i freaking kicked the 1996 ravens rear end!
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Jun 11, 2019 19:21
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Logicblade posted:
I'm curious, are you considering the expansion Browns team as a continuance of the same Browns team before the move to Baltimore ( like the league does?) or are you counting the Expansion Browns as a whole new team? I just can't believe that Testaverde is the 3rd best Browns QB on this list.
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Jun 12, 2019 03:16
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syzpid posted:I'm curious, are you considering the expansion Browns team as a continuance of the same Browns team before the move to Baltimore ( like the league does?) or are you counting the Expansion Browns as a whole new team? I just can't believe that Testaverde is the 3rd best Browns QB on this list. The Browns are the teams that played in Cleveland, so the 66-95 iteration, and the 99-onward Browns. If it helps, literally no one on the hydra qualifies as a Browns QB.
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Jun 12, 2019 05:55
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syzpid posted:I'm curious, are you considering the expansion Browns team as a continuance of the same Browns team before the move to Baltimore ( like the league does?) or are you counting the Expansion Browns as a whole new team? I just can't believe that Testaverde is the 3rd best Browns QB on this list. Before Testaverde there's just Sipe and Kosar so him being 3rd makes sense. The previous Actually Good Browns QBs like Otto Graham precede the Super Bowl era. Unless I'm just completely blanking on somebody.
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Jun 12, 2019 15:20
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Love this project and the write ups! Looking fwd to matt hasslebeck making his appearance
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Jun 12, 2019 15:51
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97: Norm Snead: My dad is a die-hard Giants fan going back to the 60s. He still fondly remembers Joe Morrison slaving away for their shittiest teams in the late 60s and early 70s playing basically every offensive skill position at one time or another. He can name probably half of their roster for any given year. I can practically give him PTSD by mentioning names like Tucker Frederickson (Who the Giants took 1st overall in 1965, ahead of both Dick Butkus & Gale Sayers), or any number of crappy quarterbacks like Gary Wood or Scott Brunner, dudes who were decent for other teams like Craig Morton or Earl Morrall, never mind fuckin' Joe Pisarcik. Norm Snead's only winning season in 1972 was also the Giants only winning season between 1963 and 1981, and yet my dad has zero memory of him with the Giants, remembering him as a crappy Eagles QB. To me, that pretty much speaks to Snead's career as a whole. 96: Jon Kitna: Jon Kitna's a weird QB to look back on for me, because he kept popping up in random places. He started off in Seattle replacing Warren Moon, but was jettisoned by Mike Holgren for Matt Hasselbeck. He went to the Bengals and was their starter for three seasons, playing lovely in two of them under Dick LeBeau, but actually had a decent 8-8 2003 with 1st overall pick Carson Palmer sitting on the bench. He spent a few more years as the back up, including the infamous 2005 playoff game, and then went to the Lions. With Mike Martz as the OC his first two seasons, Kitna had a pair of not really terrible (But not great either) 4,000 yard seasons, as the Lions went 3-13 & 7-9 before the legendary 2008 0-16 season that we all know about. He resurfaced with the Cowboys in 2010, actually playing not terribly after Tony Romo got hurt. I vaguely remember him and rookie Dez Bryant actually playing well together during the back half of that season. Then he was gone, and I just saw the other day he is now the Cowboy's QB coach... behind Offensive Coordinator Kellen Moore? ...Okay then... 95: Ron Jaworski: Most of us probably know Jaws from being on ESPN for the last 20-odd years, and breaking downs thousands of hours of game tape every week. I haven't watched ESPN in years, but remember he was a decent analyst before they went all in on spicy hot takes 24/7. He started out floating around with the Rams and barely saw any action before going to Philadelphia. He was okay, going to a Pro Bowl in 1980 and getting the Bert Bell MVP Award, but the Eagles overall really faltered after that Super Bowl loss, and even more so after Dick Vermeil left. Jaws struggled, and then it got worse once noted lover of offense and quarterbacks in particular Buddy Ryan showed up. PFR's comparison feature for him brings up names like Jay Cutler, Jim Everett, Andy Dalton, and Joe Flacco, and all those guys make a ton of sense (And I expect we'll see fairly soon in this list). When things worked well, Jaworski was a very good QB (See 1980), but he rarely lived up to that potential consistently. 94: Vinny Testaverde: Oh, Vinny, where do we start? There was a great article on one of the advanced stats site, I think maybe PFR's defunct blog, looking at his career and basically pointing out just how many lovely teams he really played on, as others have noted already. He started off with the craptacular 80's Buccaneers and fired massive numbers of interceptions to forgettable players liked Ron Hall, the not-kicker Gary Anderson, and the not-safety Mark Carrier, all under highly questionable coaching. He goes to the Browns under Belichick and actually plays well, winning a playoff game in 1994 (Against the Parcells' Patriots, ironically) and the Browns were an outside Super Bowl pick going into 1995. They started off mediocre, then the move was announced and everything imploded. Vinny has a really good 1996, throwing to household names like receivers Michael Jackson and Derrick Alexander, but the defense sucked and they went 4-12. The defense improved in 1997, but the offense went backwards, the Ravens flopped to 6-9-1, and the team assumed Eric Zeier was the future and let Vinny go. He went to the Jets, promptly replaced Glenn Foley, and proceeded to go 12-1 playing with an actually talented offensive unit (The previously mentioned Keyshawn Johnson, Wayne Chrebet, and Curtis Martin), coming basically within a half of beating Elway's last Bronco team to get to the Super Bowl. The Jets were actually the favorites to win the AFC going into 1999. However, Vinny blew out his Achilles diving for a Curtin Martin fumble early in the 2nd quarter on opening day, and that sunk New York's season to the depths of starting QBs Rick Mirer  and Ray Lucas, with punter Tom Tupa even getting reps. Vinny had two more winning, but statistically unimpressive seasons as the Jets starter before giving way to Chad Pennington and then drifting around the league: A meh 2004 with the Cowboys throwing to Keyshawn and a 20-year younger Jason Witten, a crappy 2005 return to the Jets after Pennington was hurt yet again, 2006 warming the bench for the Patriots, and finally being pulled off the couch to fire some bombs to Steve Smith in 2007 with the Panthers. And, finally, he was done. It's really a shame that he spent his first eleven seasons playing with teams that were average at best and loving awful more often, then had his best chance disappear by simply taking a weird step. After that, he hung around and drifted to some mediocre teams for another eight loving years. Imagine if he'd actually been drafted or traded to a decent team earlier. He also once went out of his way to give my grandfather a hat at a Dolphins game, so he's cool.
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Jun 12, 2019 16:27
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93. Jim Harbaugh (Chicago Bears 1987-1993, Indianapolis Colts 1994-1997, Baltimore Ravens 1998, San Diego Chargers 1999-2000) 3rd Place Bears Quarterback and 3rd Place Colts Quarterback and 5th Place Chargers Quarterback Career Record 68-73-0 (48.23%) 73rd out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 55-29-0 (65.48%) 94th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 12-45-0 (21.05%) 91st out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 84/141 (59.57%) 22nd out of 102 (-81) Wins above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.790)  Oh dear sweet Jim Harbaugh. So before I get into any detail about this ranking... Mel Kiper was right. When all you have is a Jim Harbaugh, you have to take a Trent Dilfer. The numbers don't lie. Ok, now let's get to the meat and potatoes of this whole thing. If Ron Jaworski is the biggest underachieving QB with great defenses, Jim Harbaugh here is a close second. the 90's Bears will were still good defenses even if they weren't as dominant as they were in the mid 80's, but Jim wasn't very effective at turning strong defensive performances into wins. He wasn't much better at shootouts either, his early career was marred with interceptions and just general game manager stat lines. The Bears needed a little bit more than a guy who could just hand off, and they never really got much more than that from Harbs there. If it wasn't for 1995, Harbaugh would have just had another uneventful career bouncing around for a few teams. But for some reason there was a fire lit under his rear end, and he pushed a mediocre Colts team to the wild card round. Then he put up 35 on the Chargers who had made the super bowl the year prior, survived a tough game in Arrowhead before finally getting ousted by a hungry Pittsburgh squad in the AFC Championship game. He never did anything close to that ever again, but that is a lone bright spot for a guy who was never an all star. Harbs obviously did much better as a coach, making it to the playoffs in 3 out of his 4 years, turning Alex Smith into a capable starter, turning Colin Kaepernick into a leaguewide phenom for a couple of seasons, and coming one Joe Flacco and Ray Lewis retirement tour away from winning a super bowl.
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Jun 13, 2019 00:28
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1998 is a real forgotten year in Ravens history when Jim Harbaugh was our QB. In 96 and 97 the team was still kinda shiny and new though less so in 97 but they still had Vinny and solid offense. 99 was the start of the Billick era and signs of the next year to come. 98 though? Just weird. I think I know less about that Ravens team with Harbaugh than any other team in our history. My dad seemed to like Harbaugh ok but didn't like the rest of the team.
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Jun 13, 2019 00:54
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the 1998 ravens freaking kicked my rear end!
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Jun 13, 2019 02:02
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92. Ken O'Brien (New York Jets 1983-1992, Philadelphia Eagles 1993) 5th Place Jets Quarterback Career Record 53-63-1 (45.73%) 87th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 39-22-1 (63.71%) 96th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 14-41-0 (25.45%) 62nd out 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 62/117 (52.99%) 45th out of 102 (-47) Wins above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.743)  Ken O'Brien was part of the legendary 83 Draft class. Problem was, he was always just the other guy in that discussion. Elway, Marino and Jim Kelly are all going to have long discussions on why they were among the greatest to ever play the game, Ken O'Brien will mostly just be remembered as a mediocre Jets QB in a long line of those. At the very least, he wasn't a colossal bust like Todd Blackledge (who only started 29 games in his career, most of those in backup duty), but Jets fans should be bitter on what they missed out on, because Dan Marino was taken just three picks later. That's not to say that Ken didn't have his share of success, the Jets were legitimately talented in the 80's, as can be seen by his better than average defensive rating. The Jets went to the playoffs three times in his career, each time being a quick one and done exit. The Jets drafted his replaced in 92, and after starting the season 0-3, Ken never played for the Jets again, finishing his career with the Eagles as a backup to Randall Cunningham and Bubby Brister. O'Brien was one of those guys who you just couldn't count on reliably to win you games where the defense did it's work. That's why he's so low despite a slightly above average win percentage in games where his defense let up a lot of points.
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Jun 14, 2019 11:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZxNeFLuY98&t=17s
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Jun 14, 2019 14:41
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Can't wait til you get to Tier 1 Legend : Matt Ryan 
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Jun 14, 2019 14:48
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Waiting for the old timey Patriots QBs to make the list. Need a good laugh. e: Holy poo poo I just realized Steve Grogan had a better win % than Drew Bledsoe lmao sean10mm fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Jun 14, 2019 |
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Jun 14, 2019 15:46
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91. Kerry Collins (Carolina Panthers 1995-1998, New Orleans Saints 1998, New York Giants 1999-2003, Oakland Raiders 2004-2005, Tennessee Titans 2006-2010, Indianapolis Colts 2011) 4th place Panthers QB and 5th Place Giants QB and 7th Place Raiders QB and 7th Place Oilers/Titans QB Career Record 87-102-0 (46.03%) 86th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 72-30-0 (70.59%) 77th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 15-72-0 (17.24%) 97th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 102/189 (53.97%) 40th out of 102 (-51) Wins above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.713)  I often talk about how QB's have interesting careers, and sometimes... players just don't. They get so many chances because they were picked early and they never do anything with those chances. Enter a man who made his career on fleecing teams, the original Sam Bradford, one Kerry Collins for sale. So let's get the obvious out of the way, Collins has had a smattering of good defenses over his career, primarily with the Panthers and Giants, but he got some good performances out of those Titans squads as well. Collins was blessed with a long career, a decent arm, and that sweet sweet first round pick pedigree that let him bounce from team to team with nary a batted eye. He's in the top 20 in both career passing yards and completions, which says a lot about just how long he hung around. He started out as the answer to the Expansion Panthers' prayers, taken 5th overall by Sub Capers. He lasted three and a bit seasons there, going to an NFC championship in 97 before quitting on the team after a poor start in his 4th season and a wee bit of alcoholism. The Saints snatched him off waivers, got nothing out of him, and he found his way to New York the very next season. He threw for a lot of yards, made a lot of completions, but also fumbled like a madman, threw a lot of interceptions, and had one of the worst performances in the super bowl by any QB in history. He continued to drink and dunk his way onto the Raiders, Titans and Colts before finally hanging up the cleats, and ridding us all of the Jeff Fisher of QB's. Logicblade fucked around with this message at 12:52 on Jun 28, 2019 |
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Jun 15, 2019 04:24
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kerry collins was the first qb to kneel for the national anthem
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Jun 15, 2019 05:38
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I always wished the Ravens had gotten Kerry Collins as a backup for Boller in 2004. Yeah he wasn't a great QB, but when you're an absolute mess at QB otherwise he could be a good get!
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Jun 15, 2019 13:56
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This is a superb thread. I think I enjoy reading about these names from when I was in elementary school as much or more than looking forward to where my favorites will land. Like the History of Rome podcast, this is a completionist's dream thread.
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Jun 15, 2019 20:26
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Somehow I remember Collins being a much better player.
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Jun 16, 2019 02:51
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Somehow I remember Collins being a much better player. It shows how low the floor 'moderately competent' is.
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Jun 16, 2019 04:21
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Kerry Collins just lasted for too god drat long in this league. Sticking around like that just sort of forms a stigma around you or something... in any case, this is a guy who probably wishes he ended his career 5 years earlier than he did. 90. Jim Everett (Los Angeles Rams 1986-1993, New Orleans Saints 1994-1996, San Diego Chargers 1997) 4th Place Rams QB and 6th Place Saints QB Career Record 66-93-0 (41.51%) 94th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 46-22-0 (67.65%) 87th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 20-71-0 (21.98%) 83rd out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 68/159 (42.77%) 83rd out of 102 (-7) Wins above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.602)  Jim Everett is a case of a player who probably held onto his career way too long despite having every reason to quit while he was ahead. He was the third overall draft pick by the Houston Oilers in 1986, but because they couldn't get a deal done, he started his career as a Ram. and his first 4-5 years were actually really good, making the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons, the NFC Championship game in his 4th, and he managed to go to a pro bowl in 1990, despite the team selling off most of their players due to money issues. However, Everett was never the same guy after all the hard hits he took in the championship game against the 49ers, becoming very gun shy in the pocket and sack averse. He was benched a few times for a guy you'll probably never hear about or remember (T.J. Rubley), and traded to New Orleans (which is where QB's went to die for a long long time). He eventually ended his career with the Chargers as a backup in 97, after going through 7 straight losing seasons in the 90's. Perhaps the most famous thing he'll be remembered for was the time he attacked Jim Rome on air for being called Chris Everett. It was a classic insult in Rome's playbook, and Everett had warned him that things would get physical if he called him Chris again. Of course Jim did, he got a table flipped on him and shoved to the ground. Unfortunately, it made Rome popular for years, which sucked, but what can you do? Everett never had great teams around him, as you can see by his defense's ranking on this list but he wasn't good enough to overcome those poor performances. That's why he sits in the journeyman category despite a reasonable early career. Logicblade fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Jun 16, 2019 |
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Jun 16, 2019 08:48
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Hell, have a double feature, I'm feeling spicy today. 89. Greg Landry (Detroit Lions 1968-1978, Baltimore Colts 1979-1981, Chicago Bears 1984) 2nd Place Lions QB Careeer Record 44-50-3 (46.91%) 81st out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 32-15-2 (67.35%) 89th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 12-35-1 (26.04%) 59th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 49/97 (50.52%) 62nd out of 102 (-27) Wins Above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.586)  Greg Landry was for a long time, the best thing to ever happen to the Lions at the quarterback position. They had been cursed with beyond terrible play at the position ever since Bobby Layne left them in 1958. And while it was true that the Lions were cursed to lose for 50 years, at least with Landry they lost far less than they usually did. In addition to being a decent passer, he was a quality running option as well, which was rare in the 70's, because scrambling QB's usually got decked. However he struggled with injuries and just barely got to the 90 starts mark needed to qualify for this list despite playing in the NFL for 15 years. Decent at best was the best the Lions could muster in his 11 years with them, and he only made a single playoff appearance, a game in which they lost 5-0 to the Cowboys. he played for the Colts for a few years as a backup to Bert Jones, before being released during the 1982 lockout. He spent a few years in the USFL before ending his career with the Chicago Bears. If he had just stayed on with them another year, he would have had a super bowl ring. That's just how things go sometimes, and the Lions are especially cursed in that regard.
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Jun 16, 2019 08:55
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Logicblade posted:89. Greg Landry (Detroit Lions 1968-1978 This shouldn't be surprising but is still pretty 
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Jun 16, 2019 12:16
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Holy poo poo, Greg Landry. I only vaguely even knew that name, and frankly I'd have never thought of it. I'm guessing all the other guys I guessed earlier were just short of the 90 mark.
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Jun 16, 2019 18:23
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Fenrir posted:Holy poo poo, Greg Landry. I only vaguely even knew that name, and frankly I'd have never thought of it. I'm guessing all the other guys I guessed earlier were just short of the 90 mark. bingo. Rodney Peete was drat close, and Scott Mitchell was about 20 starts short. Anyway, let's keep it old school. 88. Lynn Dickey (Houston Oilers 1971-1975, Green Bay Packers 1976-1985) 3rd Place Packers QB Career Record 47-61-3 (43.69%) 90th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 32-15-3 (67.00%) 92nd out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 15-46-0 (24.59%) 69th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 50/111 (45.05%) 78th out of 102 (-10) Wins Above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.533)  There were some dark days in Green Bay, from Vince Lombardi's retirement to the advent of Mike Holmgren. For that near quarter century, the Packers struggled to find that legacy that brought them so many championships. Lynn Dickey represents the best of that dark era for the Packers, at a time where they couldn't find playmakers and had a real difficult time of drawing players to the frozen tundra. Dickey was a backup in Houston, never able to supplant Dan Pastorini for the job in the early 70's, and very turnover prone in relief, throwing 8 TD's and 28 INT's during his 5 year stint for the Oilers. He had a rough start as a Packer after being traded in 76, throwing just 12 TDs to 28 picks before breaking his leg in 77, missing the rest of that season, all of 78' and most of 79'. If his career had ended there it would have been a sad state of affairs, but after recovering from his injury he hit his stride in his 30's, putting up a lot of yards, a lot of points... and a lot of interceptions. Dude gave the ball away like a philanthropic leper gives away everything. He did however set the Packers record for yardage and points in a season in 1983 with 4458 yards, and 429 points, but those marks have since been broken by Aaron Rodgers. The Packers made the playoffs once in his tenure during the strike shortened season of 1982, but they were eliminated by the Cowboys in the second round thanks in large part for his propensity to throw picks. Dickey could sling it with the best of them, but he made so many crucial mistakes that he often gave up losses in games where his defense actually did decide to show up. And as you can see he is only 1 of 3 Packer QB's on this list. Favre and Rodgers will be making appearances later, but Bart Starr did not qualify for starts in the super bowl era. Logicblade fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 02:48
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93: Jim Harbaugh: It's funny you say the Bears needed a guy who could do more than hand off, because I think that's exactly the opposite of what Mike Ditka wanted. There's a few stories of Jim McMahon, at the height of the Bears mid-80s run, basically telling Ditka to gently caress off and changing plays and hitting big, game changing plays. One of the most notable was a game in the Metrodome early in the legendary 1985 season where McMahon lead a big comeback by calling bombs rather than highly predictable runs. Harbaugh had... less suitable timing. Leading 20-0 in the 4th in a game in 1992, Harbaugh decided to change from a highly predictable and conservative Ditka running play to a pass... only the audible wasn't quite heard by the rest of the offense in the loud dome. The Vikings picked it off, ran it back for a touchdown, and it sparked a comeback which Minnesota won 21-20 (EDIT: Here's the highlights of it, for those curious, or just wanting to see some old NFL Primetime). Harbaugh's stint with the Colts in the mid-90s was solid but he, like the team, never really got past being generally mediocre and relying on good breaks to get whatever success they had. His stints with Baltimore and San Diego are completely forgettable. 92: Ken O'Brien: As has been often mentioned, Ken O'Brien wasn't a terrible quarterback, it just so happened that, by picking him, the Jets passed on Dan Marino, who would torment them for over a decade. That said, O'Brien had a few really solid years for the Jets in the mid-80s, and generally did so without the benefit of deep supporting casts on offense. The best receiver he played with was Al Toon, one of the receivers taken before Jerry Rice in 1985 who put together three Pro Bowls and several very good seasons in the mid-80s, but his career was utterly ruined by concussions (Something like nine, and this being by 1980s standards for concussion reporting ). As for the rest of their roster, I'll refer to the legendary video already posted by sirtommygunn. The infamous "OH NO" referred to one of the players supposed to help O'Brien. All told, considering the state of the Jets, he probably did as well as he could.91: Kerry Collins: Not really a whole lot to add here, other than more details. He was a highly rated prospect coming out of college, and helped the expansion Panthers to their early successes before alcohol and a bit of racism sent him drifting for a while. He was solid, but never spectacular, for the Giants, particularly during the 2000-to-2002 seasons. They went to the playoffs twice, and Collins actually had a few decent moments... but none of that matters because, by most accounts, he got himself freaked out prior to facing the Ravens in Super Bowl XXXV. Yeah, the 2000 Ravens are one of the greatest defenses in NFL history, but Collins psyched himself out before the opening kick off and proceeded to play like poop from a butt. After the Giants, he went to the Raiders as a backup in 2003, only to quickly end up the starter after Rich Gannon suffered his career ending neck injury and continued to play poorly. Granted, the mid-00s Raiders are one of the textbook definitions of dysfunctional, poorly managed NFL franchises in history. He spent two years backing up Vince Young in Tennessee, before the 2008 season. Aided by a dominant running game, a very good defense (Albert Haynesworth in a contact year lol), and the Colts starting slow because  missed the preseason with an injury, Collins game managed the Titans to the AFC's top seed, only to fart it up against the Ravens in the playoffs again. He started 0-6 the following year, was benched, got a few more lovely starts in 2010, and was retired... Until noted genius Bill Polian, who drafted him in Carolina in 1995, signed him three weeks before the 2011 seasons when it was apparent that wasn't going to play and the Colts were hosed. The players didn't like the idea, as Collins had zero familiarity with their system. He was old and lovely and bad. How bad, you ask? When they replaced him with Curtis Painter, the team was actually kinda competitive in a few games (Which they still lost). He made Curtis loving Painter seem like the better option. Thank god for Dan Orlovsky. 90: Jim Everett: Aside from the aforementioned Jim Rome incident, Everett is best remembered for the phantom sack in the 1989 NFC Championship game. While it's semi-common now to see QB's just go fetal when they think the rush is about to get them, rather than take a punishing hit, it was unheard of at that time. More to the point, Everett didn't do it out of self preservation, but because he was hearing footsteps during a game where the 49ers were utterly demolishing the Rams in every possible way. It was basically him, and the Rams, waving the white flag to arguably one of the greatest football teams in NFL history. He put up decent numbers, but spent his entire career in the old NFC West. When he was with the Rams, the 49ers won back to back Super Bowls and appeared in five out of six NFC Championship games. The Saints in that same window had a great defense anchored by the Dome Patrol, going to the playoffs 4 times (Plus missing one year at 10-6). The Falcons were mediocre, but even they had a year or two in there. Meanwhile, the Rams were starting to fall apart. Eventually, Everett went to the Saints and had a pair of decent years in 1994 & 1995. Both seasons say him complete over 60% of his passes, for over 3,800 yards with over 20 TDs, but they limped to 7-9 both times as neither the offense or defense was really consistent. The Saints imploded in 1996, Everett had a cup of coffee with the Chargers in 1997, and that was it. 89: Greg Landry: This is a guy who you will usually see in other peoples highlight reels. He threw some passes to Charlie Sanders, a tight end who made the 70s All-Decade team and eventually into the Hall of Fame. He also shows up a lot in highlights for defenders from the old NFC Central, guys like Dick Butkus and Alan Page. Dead ball passing era, playing for the lovely Lions. An otherwise totally forgettable guy who just happened to hang around for a decade. 88: Lynn Dickey: The period that Lynn Dickey is most remembered for, from about 1980 to 1984, is basically the period where he played with some really talented receivers. They had James Lofton, a Hall of Famer who was an excellent and durable deep threat, stringing together a bunch of 18 and 20 yards-per-reception seasons while going to six Pro Bowls with the Packers (And, later on, being an equally reliable deep threat on three of the Bills' Super Bowl losing teams of the early 1990s). In 1981 they added John Jefferson from the Chargers, who was known for crazy acrobatic catches and shows up in a lot of the Air Coryell highlights. Dickey just bombed it away, most memorably in the 48-47 Monday Night win over the Redskins in 1983, but simply never had the balanced repertoire needed to be truly great, and being on some otherwise lovely Packer teams during their two decades in the wilderness didn't help. I don't know if coaching could have helped that, but for a few years there, as the NFL was starting to shift to a passing league, he was at least entertaining. fartknocker fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jun 17, 2019 |
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Jun 17, 2019 04:38
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Loving all the added info as always fartknocker. Getting close to the end of the journeyman tier, only two to go. 87. Steve Beuerlein (Oakland Raiders 1987-1990, Dallas Cowboys 1991-1992, Arizona Cardinals 1993-1994, Jacksonville Jaguars 1995, Carolina Panthers 1996-2000, Denver Broncos 2001-2003) 7th Place Cardinals QB and 3rd Place Panthers QB Career Record 49-57-0 (46.23%) 85th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 38-17-0 (69.09%) 81st out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 11-40 (21.47%) 88th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 55/106 (51.89%) 52nd out of 102 (-35) Wins Above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.530)  Beuerlein is probably better known as an announcer, but as it turns out he did have a fairly lengthy career in the NFL, even if it took a long time for him to finally get a starting job locked up. As a 4th round pick for the Raiders he mostly played backup to their revolving door of QB's but he was solid in relief duties so the Cowboys took him on when his first contract was up. He was a warm enough body to win games with that stacked Dallas team in 91, and won a super bowl as a backup in 92 before finally getting a chance to start for real in Arizona. The Cardinals were alright under him, going 9-12 when he started over two seasons, but they couldn't retain him when the expansion draft came around. He ended being a backup for both the expansion Jags and Panthers in the span of 2 years, losing his starting job to Mark Brunell pretty early on. Once Kerry Collin's alcoholism hit his team, he finally had a chance to lead the Panthers. While he never got a team past .500 as a starter, he was always a commendable backup and a fair starter when he needed to be. If you're judging him purely as a starter, he never really broke into that echelon save for his 99' and 00' season, he was just a capable backup who played long enough and got enough chances to just barely break the 90 starts needed for this list. And hell, the fact that he did better on this list than a lot of high draft picks is a testament to his grit, if nothing else.
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Jun 17, 2019 22:04
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A day late on the Dadliest jeans in the Dadliest picture
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Jun 17, 2019 22:42
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fartknocker posted:91: Kerry Collins: How bad, you ask? When they replaced him with Curtis Painter, the team was actually kinda competitive in a few games (Which they still lost). He made Curtis loving Painter seem like the better option. I prefer the version of events where Kerry had some rust but looked ok, but he looked SO OK that the Colts were afraid he would actually win them games and ruin Suck for Luck™, and thus Kerry Collins was ejected.
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Jun 17, 2019 23:32
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86. Joe Ferguson (Buffalo Bills 1973-1984, Detroit Lions 1985-1987, Tampa Bay Bucs 1988-1989, Indianapolis Colts 1990) 3rd Place Bills QB Career Record 80-90-0 (47.06%) 80th out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 59-28-0 (67.82%) 86th out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 21-62-0 (25.30%) 66th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 87/170 (51.18%) 57th out of 102 (-29) Wins Above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.507)  Joe Ferguson, aka the guy who handed the ball off to OJ Simpson had a long... very long career for the Bills. During his first 3 seasons in the league, he barely had to throw the ball more than 20 times a games, letting Juice do all the work. His fortunes changed around 1977 when he needed to become the centrepiece of the offense and sling it down field a lot more. Of course, the Bills got much worse as a result, toiling in mediocrity for most of the early live ball era. The Bills drafted Jim Kelly in 1983, but he went to go play in the USFL, so Ferguson got to start for a couple more seasons, but after an abysmal 1-10 showing in 1984, the Bills finally decided to move on. He bounced around as a backup in Detroit, Tampa and Indianapolis before finally hanging up the cleats in 1990. Ferguson's raw numbers for the era weren't very impressive but he stayed healthy, kept his TD:INT ratio around 1, and his completion percentage a shade above 50% for most of his prime, and he managed to have a long career, especially for the era he played in. Nobody will talk about Ferguson as one of the all time greats, but he was just a solid game manager who was occasionally prone to a real stinker of a game from time to time. He was fortunate to play with OJ Simpson for most of the dead ball era which probably contributed to his long career, the game is a lot easier when you only have to throw 20 times a game. The Bills made the playoffs three times in his career, losing in the Divisional Round each time.
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Jun 18, 2019 12:19
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So #1 is Jim Kelly and #2 is uhhhh 
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Jun 18, 2019 12:40
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sean10mm posted:So #1 is Jim Kelly and #2 is uhhhh Bledsoe
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Jun 18, 2019 13:05
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Sheen Sheen posted:Bledsoe  The obvious answer is obvious. He really didn't do much better than Doug Flutie or Tyrod Taylor while with the Bills, but I think those guys had too few NFL starts to qualify for this anyway.
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Jun 18, 2019 14:32
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87: Steve Beuerlein: So, Beuerlein started off with the Raiders during that brief window where Mike Shanahan was the coach. Shanahan apparently liked Beuerlein, but Al Davis went and traded for Jay Schroeder, a QB with a cannon for an arm (If sometimes questionable accuracy) that Davis always loved. Beuerlein bounced in and out of the lineup under Shanahan and his replacement, Art Shell, with generally meh stats (Sub 50% completions, but not a ton of picks). A contract hold out, and Davis preference for Schroeder's style (Which was either handing off to Bo Jackson, or unleashing the dragon deep to Mervyn Fernandez and Willie Gault) led to Beuerlein being knocked from starter at the end of 1989 to third string and not playing at all in 1990. Prior to 1991, he was traded to Dallas to back up the still young and inconsistent Troy Aikman, who got hurt late in the season and Beuerlein took over. Even when Aikman was healthy, Jimmy Johnson stuck with Beuerlein going into the playoffs, and he beat the Bears it Ditka's final playoff game. However, as with the Raiders, his numbers were still not good (Sub 50%, but not a lot of picks), and the following week the lost in Detroit in what turned out to be the only playoff win of Barry Sanders career (Where, already up by three touchdowns in the 4th, Barry did this). Aikman was upset, and later on I think even Jimmy Johnson admitted he should have gone back to Aikman when he was healthy, which he did in 1992 where the Cowboys became the team everyone hates and won the Super Bowl. Beuerlein went to the Cardinals as an early free agent and was better but still not great, ultimately being blamed by noted offensive genius and total lover of quarterbacks Buddy Ryan for the team sucking, and he was picked up by the Jaguars in the expansion draft for 1995. I've heard him joke more than once in game broadcasts over the last number of years that he was pulled for Mark Brunell really quickly, although he did play in a few games that year, and in 1996 he went to the Panthers. He was the backup for a few seasons, but won the starting job after Kerry Collins got wacky in 1998, and actually played really well in 1999, being part of the infamous WE NEED MORE POINTS games to end the season. The Panthers had some bad injuries that derailed them the following season, Beuerlein regressed and was subsequently released. He would end up in Denver with Mike Shanahan again, backing up Brian Griese and Jake Plummer respectively, before calling it a career. His biggest contribution as a Bronco? Preventing Tony Romo from signing there. As the story goes, Shanahan offered Romo twice as much money as Dallas did, but Romo felt he stood little chance of making the team with Beuerlein specifically being a lock for the backup spot, so he went to Dallas where there was much less consistency, and we all know what happened with him. 86: Joe Ferguson: Solid game manager basically sums up Joe Ferguson pretty well, and in the 1970s that's really what a lot of teams wanted, which is partly why he hung around as long as he did. During the heights of the O.J. years, the team basically never tried to pass the ball, instead giving it to Simpson, since they figured he had a better chance of breaking a big one on the ground than their QB's did of getting it to a wide receiver. Highlights of Ferguson's early years include this wonderful display of passing that had to have been played in a tornado. For what it was worth, he did lead the Bills to back to back playoff spots in 80 & 81 (By which time O.J. was long gone) and wasn't terrible in Chuck Knox's equally run oriented offense. After the Bills, he bounced around, but his most famous 'highlight' is probably this hit he took from Wilber Marshall of the Bears in 1985, where Mike Ditka literally thought Ferguson was dead on the field. He was never god-awful, but he rarely got to or past the level of mediocre either.
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Jun 18, 2019 15:58
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fartknocker posted:86: Joe Ferguson: Holy cow, Namath and Ferguson combined to go 2-20 in passing. Ferguson went 0-2. Lots of rain and high winds. I found a brief highlight package on twitter if anyone wants to take a gander.
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Jun 18, 2019 17:37
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That hit is insane , times sure have changed
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Jun 18, 2019 17:44
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with nothing but cold facts, the cold blade of logic, if You will, here are the top supporters of this great endeavor, and thread: 1. sean10mm 2. fartknocker 3. Cavauro 4. Fenrir 5. Kawalimus Thank you all for loving qbs, and likeing what's going on.
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Jun 19, 2019 03:40
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i genuinely can’t wait to see where vick gets placed or how close to perfectly average chris chandler ends up being
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Jun 19, 2019 12:58
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| # ? May 5, 2024 15:22 |
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Well it's not Michael Vick, but it is his cousin... 85. Aaron Brooks (Green Bay Packers 1999, New Orleans Saints 2000-2005, Oakland Raiders 2006) 5th Place Saints QB Career Record 39-53-0 (42.39%) 91st out of 102 Record in Games with Good Defense 24-15-0 (61.54%) 99th(T) out of 102 Record in Games with Bad Defense 15-38-0 (28.30%) 49th out of 102 Percentage of Games with Good Defense 39/92 (42.39%) 85th out of 102 (0) Wins Above Average Starter in a 16 Game Season (-0.414)  Aaron Brooks had a very weird trajectory for his career, and he's basically just Saints trivia at this point. His career was a very short 7 seasons, but he was the first QB to ever win a post season game for the Saints. While the Saints had made the postseason several times in the Dome Patrol era, they were bounced in the wild card each of the 4 times they showed up. Aaron Brooks led the Saints to the postseason in his rookie year, and outscored the Greatest Show on Turf in 2000 before folding to the Vikings in the divisional round. Brooks never tasted the playoffs again after that, but his play in his rookie season brought a lot of hope to Saints fans. However, the saints were plagued with poor defense for most of the 2000's, and Brooks could only keep the team around .500 before having a major collapse in 2005 that got him benched, got his coach Jim Haslett fired, and Sean Payton brought in. Drew Brees became a free agent, and Brooks' time in New Orleans was done in a rather ignominious fashion. He joined the Raiders the next season, but played musical chairs at the position with Andrew Walter and could never recover the magic he displayed early in his career. Brooks was released at the end of the season, and decided to hang them up at age 30. Brooks was a remarkably inconsistent player, his record when his defenses showed up to play was among the worst of all players in this study, and yet he had a knack for the dramatic, always seeming to match the offenses he faced, and playing a lot of games tight until the 4th quarter. However, he took a serious decline at 29, and it may have had something to do with being unable to adjust to losing his speed as he got older, and his teams lost 18 of his last 21 starts as a result.
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Jun 19, 2019 13:30
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