|
I always felt like the night market items were almost like cheating since using them invalidates a major dimension of the class choices. If you don’t have a healer, you can make up for it with moon saber or single target healing items. Of course anyone can play the game however they want — for me, ready access to those items makes my choices unimportant and therefore makes the game less fun. I’d be fine using them as rare consumables, though. My last play through was with wanderer Hawk, vanadys Lise and necromancer Carly. That made for a really slow, painful mid game, but they stomped the last couple dungeons hilariously quickly. At the start of every fight, Hawk instantly charged Lise’s level 3 special, while Lise buffed her strength, then wiped the screen before the enemies could even move. Bosses were a little slower, but even wanderer does competent damage with buffs and debuffs and has access to lunatic to shave 20% HP off the boss right at the start, while Carly makes it impossible to die and can deal solid damage with ghost. Vanadys is no slouch as a physical attacker, either — easily stronger than wanderer before buffs and debuffs. If crits weren’t broken, the party would be even more powerful because of wanderer’s energy ball. Wanderer is definitely my favorite class. No overwhelming strengths, just this huge bag of weird tricks that can be applied to any situation. The one thing I really hope for from the remake is that they accelerate class changes so you play around 40% of the game in your final classes.
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2019 04:48
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 04:12 |
|
|
Hawk and Kevin are definitely the most fun characters, Kevin for the huge damage output and Hawk for the amazing versatility. You could probably make something decently synergistic with the boring, Duran, Angela, Charlotte party, but if you play it straight as a swordsman, offensive caster and healer, where everyone is just doing their own thing and not supporting each other, it will be hard to get the delicious, screen-wiping, boss-melting power of other combinations.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 25, 2019 13:36
|
|
|
Item Getter posted:You can only store 9 items of a kind in the ring menu but up to 99 of anything in the storage. I actually really preferred the strict item limitations in Secret of Mana. When I played the game as a kid I hated it, but now that I care about difficulty and want some challenge from games, I think it’s much better. Trials of Mana (feels really weird to write that, since I’ve only ever played the ROM, but I guess that’s its name now) gives some classes cool tools to generate MP, but they’re meaningless unless you impose restrictions on yourself because it’s impossible to run out of fairy walnuts after a certain point. Effectively unlimited healing removes any tension from easy fights, when otherwise you would have to play more carefully or consider whether you want to spend limited MP to avoid damage. Attrition is a key component of the old school RPG formula, but being able to carry effectively unlimited items in storage completely removes it from the equation. I suspect, like with the night market items, the developers were worried that some players would create weak class combos that would get screwed, so they left some ways to brute force through the game.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2019 06:27
|
|
|
cirus posted:Wow I was afraid they would just upgrade the graphics but the music and new gameplay elements look amazing! One of the big problems with the original is that some classes are just way better than others. Looks like they're fixing that! This was from a few days ago, but I thought class balance was actually very good, overall. Which classes did you think suffered? I certainly haven't played every class, but even the bad ones, like Duran's paladin, still have a lot to contribute (healing and a tier 3 full screen tech) to a well built team. For example, taken individually, vanadis looks bad and wanderer looks bad, but vanadis and wanderer together instantly kill every enemy except for bosses almost before they can even move. There are certainly balance problems in the game, like Kevin's tier-1 tech being far more powerful than it has any right to be, but I think every final class can do really well if it's used in the right team. Some of the tier 2 classes are clearly worse, though. Wanderer, for example, is one of my favorite designs, thematically and practically, in any class based system, but ranger is just miserable compared to ninja. Actually, the bugs in the original mostly helped game balance. Duran's light classes got screwed, but Hawk and Kevin were already on the edge of overpowered, and if things like critical hits, dex and energy ball worked, they would be insane. Magitek posted:Man, you can say that again. Playing with Angela was seriously tedious IIRC. Do we know if the nuke/summon spell animations are becoming less disruptive in the remake? I seriously hope so, magic was so much more of a pain to use than attacking that my casters always performed way below their potential.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2020 03:22
|
|
|
Folt The Bolt posted:Wanderer I believe also has a spell that deals about the same damage as Angela's Lv. 3 spells for practically no MP cost. (Just so long as you, you know, don't cast it on undead creatures.) I think that must be rogue, which is attack spell oriented class for Hawkeye. I've never actually played that one, though, so I can't say how good the spells are. Wanderer has very limited damage options, though lunatic is great against bosses. The main draw is aura wave, lunatic, effectively unlimited MP, and a big bag of fun, if not extremely effective tricks. I guess there's half vanish, too, for damage, but it doesn't work on bosses and sleep flower or aura wave seem like better tools against regular enemies. I would agree light Hawkeye and dark Carlie trade midgame for lategame power, but it's a lovely trade. Their final light and dark classes respectively are also no jokes. In fact, even though it's worlds better than ranger except in a few team compositions, wanderer is still also almost certainly Hawkeye's weakest class. And the final class change comes so late that the trade really doesn't seem worth it at all. I wonder how important healing will be in the remake. It would be kind of fun to go for an all out offensive party if you could manage without healing.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2020 09:10
|
|
|
Mega64 posted:I'm curious to see how Reisz's later classes go since she seems set up to be solidly average stat-wise while everyone else specializes in one of the five stats. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some gimmick specializing like the victory heal to justify her being an all-rounder. She was solidly average at everything in the original but managed to be a powerful support character who could still take a hit and contribute damage in the original. Until class change, though, she was just a crappier Duran. In this one she feels even worse off because her attack animations seem much less useful than Duran’s. Hawk is weaker than Kevin, but at least feels more agile by comparison. After playing through the demo three times, here are my thoughts: -I don’t feel the controls are clunky at all except for the camera, which does suck, but not more so than in a lot of action games. -Kevin, Hawkeye and Duran are all fun to play and feel quite distinct. I’ll probably play through again to get a better sense of Duran’s gameplay, since he was the first character I played. Riesz feels a fair bit weaker than the guys and like her spear should have more reach. It’s pretty weird that the dagger character is best at keeping his distance and attacking with with long reach, but the gameplay and animations sell it. Kevin is just disgustingly strong, but that was true in the original as well, and he overall gets the least from class change. He and Hawkeye are both really fast and fluid, but in different ways. It’s very good. -The voice acting is hilariously terrible. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. New Yorker Charlotte perfectly encapsulates this. The writing in the original game was already pretty bad, and this makes it much worse. -It’s way, way too easy, even on hard. It’s trivial to avoid all damage against the boss just by staying behind it. Some of the enemy compositions have the potential to be tough, if damage were much higher, though. Hopefully this is just an issue with the demo. -I dislike changing the techniques from a per-battle resource to a strategic, slow filling resource. I understand why they did that, but it’s less satisfying. -I really appreciate how closely the graphics and sound stick to the original. -Some of the character designs are really embarrassing. I wish the women would put on some more clothes. -Overall the game is not perfect, but the demo feels like as good a remake as anyone could hope for. It’s extremely faithful to the original (including faithfully recreating many of the original game’s weaknesses), but translates it beautifully to modern gameplay while adding depth where the original game’s play was shallow. -All in all, I love it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2020 11:54
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:I noticed a few goblins in the demo had some hexagon barrier that give them unbreakable poise until the barrier is broken. Hawkeye’s strong attack is fast enough and has enough reach that you can reliably use it without being hit. It’s great charged up, too. Kevin’s light attack out of running is a slide with amazing reach, and his strong attack combo out of it is quite fast, so he can combo and knock down most of the demo enemies without letting them react. Otherwise jabbing with light attacks and baiting counters seems to be the best strategy. Most of the enemies seem to pause for a bit after attacking, so if you dodge an attack, you can counter it with a combo. The zombies seemed much harder to stagger than other enemies, and there were some shielded enemies too, so it’s not unreasonable to expect more diversity to combat later, even not taking magic into account. Is it confirmed that class changing will change attack chains? That could really add a lot of diversity beyond what the class system already adds. I have faith that the game has the potential to be sufficiently challenging if the enemies do enough damage. The fight with the four goblins in the cavern can be pretty hectic if you’re trying to avoid getting hit, and could be tough if those axes were actually threatening. Of course consumables will almost certainly break the difficulty curve no matter what, but that’s par for the course. That starlancer skill tree is a little worrying, though without knowing how many training points we’ll be getting it’s impossible to know how limiting that will be. It’s possible that we’ll be able to max out all stats and get all the skills pretty naturally by the end of the game. Still, my initial reaction is that the design team thought Kevin wasn’t overpowered enough in the original. Since his dark classes only get one spell, they go pick that up then spend the rest of the time strictly building strength and stamina (or luck, if crits are a solid way of increasing damage). I think the biggest takeaway from that tree, though, is that we’re likely going to be able to max out all stats in one class by the end of the game. In fact, we might be expected to use respec to level up in multiple different classes for more stat boosts and chain abilities. I really want to bring Charlotte for necromancer, but I don’t know if I can do it. I think I’ll just have to mute the voices or set the audio to Japanese no matter what, though.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2020 02:00
|
|
|
Folt The Bolt posted:Some speculations (and some confirmed things) Thanks for the detailed answer. Did spirit determine the power of summons and holy damage spells in the original or was that a mistake in some of the guides? Also are there some articles or text resources on spoiled mechanics so far, or another forum somewhere with good information? I want to know more, but I have no patience for videos.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2020 03:36
|
|
|
I think most dark classes had slightly stronger weapons, but the main thing distinguishing classes damage was their strength score. Some characters ended up with more damage in their light classes, most notably Riesz, whose strongest attacker was Vanadis, the light/light class. I broke down and watched a video and the stat system seems pretty bad. Kevin probably has it easy, but it looks like a nightmare for Angela. Either she respecs after every dungeon to pick up the next “correct” element, or she spreads her stats all over everywhere and never gets to boost int to see more damage from her spells. The player’s team composition in the video annoyed me. Either Kevin should have been warrior monk to support Angela with leaf saber, or Riesz should have been vanadis to get benefit from Kevin’s aura wave. Of course that’s based on the original, but the player seemed to go with the thinking “a fighter, a mage and a support caster is a balanced team” without actually taking into consideration what the classes are specifically doing to support each other.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2020 18:31
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:We'll see how this shakes out, but this complexity/difficulty in skilling looks like another welcome change from the total brainlessness of allocating SD3's stat points on level up. Agreed that we’ll have to see how it plays out. Complexity is only good if it actually increases the number of viable, interesting choices. Starlancer seems fairly okay. You pump spirit to pick up your buffs, then go for either your summon, damage or defense. But Angela looks like she encourages constant respeccing for the elementally themed dungeons, which is really annoying. gandlethorpe posted:I hope the spells get rebalanced so that nothing is completely worthless. I'm already a little regretful about my decision to go light with Hawkeye in my pre-remake-release run Ranger is way weaker than ninja, but rogue is very strong on a magic focused team. Wanderer is amazing if you have someone who can benefit from aura wave. Otherwise it’s a lot of fun, but not strong enough at any one thing to be really good. If energy ball worked, it would be a much stronger and more interesting class. I think ranger was supposed to be balanced against ninja by having access to a full screen tech, but the tech balance was completely broken and the tier 1 was always better no matter what. Depending on how the abilities are spread out, ranger looks like it has the potential to be much better this time, since luck scales the damage of both your spells and melee, while the dark classes are unlikely to be able to be good at both (but will get debuffs to compensate).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2020 04:18
|
|
|
Detective No. 27 posted:Now I want Chrono Trigger to get this treatment. Since Chrono Trigger is the perfect embodiment of 90’s snes rpg charm, I would absolutely love that, but I think it could never happen. Part of what I think is so charming about the Trials demo is how unpretentious it is. The game was 90’s anime schlock with, for its time, good combat, an impressively deep strategic layer and great class design, and the remake is trying to reproduce exactly that, nothing more and nothing less. And it works because the original was a niche game with a lot of bold ideas that were ahead of its time. Because the original audience was small, the scope of the remake can be relatively small. On the other hand, because the original game tried bold ideas that translate to modern games well, the remake can expand on those ideas fairly organically without betraying the original design. A full remake of Chrono Trigger would attract a lot of press and a lot of high expectations. At the same time, the original game was extremely simple, so a lot of systems would have to be updated for the modern era. I doubt Square Enix could escape making a Chrono Trigger remake that changes the spirit and charm of the original. Still, I hope Trials of Mana does really well and inspires more similar efforts to update the graphics and gameplay of 90s jrpgs to the modern era without all the pretense and spectacle of their modern descendants.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 25, 2020 05:40
|
|
|
Probably going for Hawkeye, Riesz and Carlie, even though Carlie is going to drive me nuts. In the original this had stat ups, stat downs, solid magic damage through necromancer, an on-demand screen wipe from wanderer and vanadys, great utility from wanderer and decent melee damage. I tried to build a team to maximize wanderer's strengths without Byzel items and in the original I think this is as well as you can do. Kevin and Duran seem fun enough to play to be worth their own playthroughs as a main character, but I am a little tempted to bring Duran as support instead of Carlie, since provoke and enigma together should make it pretty easy to keep Hawkeye behind enemies so he can get crits. Duran brings nothing to support Hawkeye's magic, though, and either brings healing or melee support, but not both, while Carlie does everything.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2020 06:28
|
|
|
Shoenin posted:So uhh, this is a thing. Three new spirits are being added to the spirit board in Smash Ultimate to commemorate the launch of the remake of SD3? My Japanese sucks, but that’s what I make out of that.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 22, 2020 02:36
|
|
|
Yeah, golden road up to the second boss still felt quite easy (on hard) but not sleepwalking easy like the demo. The golems hit like trucks, but their attacks were easy to avoid and I was nowhere close to running out of healing for the AI. I thought it was at least enough to be engaging.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2020 11:11
|
|
|
I find Riesz to be really, really awful in Japanese. The actress voices her lines with this horribly exaggerated breathless earnestness that I can’t stand. Charlotte is pretty bad in Japanese too, but more tolerable than in English (and maybe better than Japanese Riesz). What is the state of datamined information so far? I saw a complete list of abilities, but do we know what passives are available for each specific class? Consumables seem really strong. I threw a handaxe at a random enemy on the golden road (lvl. 13 hawkeye, +10 str, +10 luck) and did 360 or so damage when my normal attacks hit for around 40. Also, you seem to level up really fast in this, especially if you don’t avoid fights and explore thoroughly.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2020 15:16
|
|
|
Erpy posted:That was honestly the one thing I had been hoping they'd rebalance a bit. Vanadys was absurdly, brokenly good in the original paired with Godhand or Wanderer. You could get a similar effect with Starlancer, but you’d have to give up multitarget healing for another class with a full screen tier 3 technique. For most parties Vanadys was much weaker, though. I don’t know if we really have enough information yet to determine whether that’s changed.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2020 17:12
|
|
|
I forgot to ask if anyone has noticed: are combo finishers normalized across different classes or do they do they have different total multipliers? Hawkeye’s light-light-heavy combo seems really strong, but I don’t know if that’s just because it makes a bunch of numbers pop up.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2020 17:22
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Serious protip: Enigma is a really good passive for casters. It makes enemies just flat out ignore them most of the time, so you can just sit back and nuke. Plus it makes it easier to get the 10% extra XP for not taking damage. It’s very good for Hawkeye too, even in melee. Ranger also gets a passive for extra damage against enemies that are targeting another character. Duran as a light class with provoke and two characters with enigma might be a really good strategy. Ranger looks so much worse than Ninja on paper, again true to the original. His spells are way weaker and don’t have debuffs and are split between luck and int. He does get melee damage passives that Ninja lacks, but, on paper they seem pretty situational.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2020 08:07
|
|
|
Arkeus posted:Is there any reason to pick Light Hawk? In the original, dark hawk was a lot more versatile and provided debuffs to boost his own damage with both spells and attacks, so he fit easily into more teams. Light hawk (after Ranger, which just sucked) was very good too, but harder to use. Rogue had a good range of top-tier spells, effectively infinite MP and excellent melee. But he didn’t offer support and needed a party built around his strengths to reach maximum potential. Wanderer was similar, though support focused in weird ways that typically didn’t directly increase your damage, but could still be completely amazing in the right situations or on the right team. I don’t think anyone knows perfectly how they compare in the remake. Ranger seems more melee focused, while ninja is more casting focused, but I don’t really know how either play in practice.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2020 09:29
|
|
|
sudonim posted:I can't believe this game has only been out a day and people are already in their 2nd class change. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for some kind soul from the internet to provide a skills breakdown. I’m still only a little ways in after the first class change, but it seems like techniques and spells are mostly the same (e.g. rangers level 2 technique is AoE while ninja’s is single target and they both do about the same amount of damage). But the power, function and utility of some spells are different, the stat differences between classes has changed and skill trees are much more complex and have a lot of pretty important, game-changing passives. For example, in the original, Riesz’s light classes had better attack than dark while Hawkeye’s Dark classes had better attack than light. That’s now exactly the opposite (at least after the first class change). Rune maiden gets slightly higher strength than valkyrie while ranger gets a decent chunk more than ninja. Rangers traps were completely worthless in the original, but do solid damage now, at least right after unlocking them. So far, I would suspect that most classes will be fairly similar, but it’s possible one class could be built in more than one direction now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if certain classes, and especially certain team compositions, ended up playing radically differently. On another topic, I just beat Zehnoa (sp? the big furnace) and it was a complete motherfucker. I barely scraped by on hard and ended up using all of my cups of wishes and quite a few fairy walnuts. So far the first legitimately hard fight, though I certainly wasn’t able to sleep through the next one.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2020 17:24
|
|
|
ultrachrist posted:When you can choose to go to fire or ice land, ice actually comes first. I did fire first and the ice land enemies were lower level than the guys in the desert. Riesz gets some surprisingly good skills in luck. If you have Hawkeye on the same team, giving him magic smash means he’s almost guaranteed to land the debuff quickly because of his high luck and multiple quick hits on the light, light strong combo, especially with pinpoint. I’m at level 23 or so with 9 spirit for spell access, 9 luck for magic smash and the rest in str(stamina would probably be better, since she’s controlled by the AI, but I want the attack up aura). Hawkeye, light or dark, wants to go all in on luck and int right away (or maybe stop at 12, +5 int does nothing for light hawk that I can see), then, again, pick up cheap stat-ups in whatever you feel you need the most.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
I haven’t had much time to play, so I’m still a good ways away from the third class, but people are saying that a seed’s result is determined at the time it’s spawned. So you have to save, pick up a seed, sprout it, then reload and go get it again if you don’t like the result. What I’ve read about the seeds seems quite disappointing, honestly, since it seems like even with a faster leveling curve, you’re still stuck waiting forever for the classes you want unless you’re really lucky. How have people’s experiences been with getting class change items? I’ve seen people recommend the queen bees in the forest area, but I’ve also seen others say the drop rate is extremely low. I’ve also seen a recommendation for the slimes in earth area, and another person follow up saying they have a good drop rate even done as the first benevedon dungeon and without a fully upgraded pot.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2020 11:04
|
|
|
How likely is this kind of low-mid budget jrpg to get balance changes or extra features in patches post-release? It would be great if we could choose what carries over into new game plus or got (a couple) higher difficulty modes.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2020 01:48
|
|
|
Is anyone playing Riesz as a Vanadys? I’m wondering if Freya is actually worth it compared to CS spam. The spell power is huge, but so is the MP cost, and with nature aura from Hawkeye and all the CS gauge passives, I wonder if I’d be better off just constantly attacking. Does any other class have access to Oracle? That poo poo is completely bonkers — every stat up + lunar radiance (HP boost) on the whole team any time you use any class strike with that character, and it’s a chain ability. What sucks is that it makes Nomad’s special passive, which otherwise would be really good, seem completely pointless. I picked Hawkeye as my main character and I’ve switched to controlling Riesz to better manage her CS gauge. Does anyone know exactly what extra potent and random buff do? They also seem completely pointless when I can apply all of Riesz’s status buffs at once to the whole team at any point. Do they work with more than just Riesz’s status buffs (I.E can I give Hawkeye Extra Potent?) Edit: Oracle is weird. It seems to only work for the whole team the first time it’s used, then only applies to the user. I don’t know whether or not that’s a bug. Also, lightgazer is such a pain. Not even that hard, but just a big slog. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 14:22 on May 2, 2020 |
|
#
¿
May 2, 2020 13:43
|
|
|
Considering how trivial it is to heal between fights, Riesz’ healing is mostly pointless. I haven’t tried Vanadys’ regen passive, but 1% hp per 10 seconds seems useless. But I think you’ll be fine without a healer. Inventory management and keeping topped up between fights is trivial compared to the original game and with a strong team it’s very unlikely you’ll run out of healing items during fights. For people wanting to get into the 3rd class ASAP, the trick I used was to scum the ??? seed chests near a save point, then magic rope out and sprout the seed. Reset if it’s not what you want and go get the seed from the chest again. There are chests near save points in the snowfields, the shimmering ruins and chartmoon tower, though you have to run through the whole dungeon to get to them in the case of the ruins and the tower. There’s a video on YouTube showing the exact locations of the chests. Am I missing some way to see what buffs are on a character other than the icons over their portrait? It’s frustrating that I have six buffs that all occupy the same space and I can never tell what I need to reapply.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2020 03:01
|
|
|
jokes posted:I can't imagine a bad party comp to be quite honest. I finally got into the post game with my favorite team from the original game, Nomad, Vanadys and Necromancer. The last boss went down fast, but overall it’s not very good. Nomad and Vanadys both have strong points, and some synergy, but are also pretty awkward. Vanadys has the amazing Oracle chain ability, that applies all stat ups + an hp boost to the whole team the first time a user uses a class strike, then applies them only to the user on every subsequent use. Riesz has strong class strikes all around and is good at building the CS gauge quickly, but extra potent and/or random buff mean she actually really prefers to put Oracle on someone else, the AI is terrible at managing the CS gauge and she doesn’t really have the ability to do amazing damage herself even with CS spam. She probably has a lot of potential with Kevin’s Light/Light and a strong melee support class like Edelfrei or Sage, though. Nomad is really a mixed bag. His defensive spells, already quite situational in the original game, are now almost completely useless. Lunatique is still good, presumably, though you can’t see the effect. Nature aura is very strong on Vanadys, but Vanadys can’t use it to great effect by herself. Poison Bubble is quite strong. The mechanics of some fights seem to really reward casting and Poison Bubble is cheap, has good AoE and deals decent damage. Critical Damage, Pinpoint 2 and Moon Energy also provide solid support to both spells and melee (which, contrary to the original, is pretty decent). He has a moderately good basis for both melee and spell damage, but can only get halfway there with either on his own. His selling point is support, but that’s largely nonfunctional. The class I really regret bringing, though, now that I know what all the skill trees look like, is Necromancer. The healing is very nice, but her summons are awkward to manage in combat and decent, but not great. Poison Bubble does more damage (because of crits) is cheaper and has better AoE). She has pretty decent strength, but nothing else really to support good melee damage. And black curse is nowhere near as good as it is in the original because stat downs are much easier to come by. Edelfrei would dramatically improve my melee damage and would make casting smoother too, while Warrior Monk would keep the healing while also providing better support for both casting and melee. Maybe if I had gone with Edelfrei it would be a good team, but as it is, nobody does amazing damage by themselves and nobody supports anyone else’s damage to a really appreciable extent.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2020 19:01
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:Also, it's an awful shame how after this game has done a lot to rehabilitate SD3's 'bad' classes like Light Duran and Dark Angela, Light and Light/Light Hawkeye are still hot garbage. At least Rogue's good now! Nomad is definitely not top-tier, but I don’t think he deserves the bad rap that he gets either. Sure, a lot of his skill set is useless, but the parts that work actually work pretty well. Judging by skills, since I don’t know the raw stat values of all the classes, he’s the best set up to deal melee damage of any of Hawkeye’s classes because of Pinpoint 2, Moon Energy and Critical Damage. Hawkeye will never be able to compete with Duran or Kevin in melee, but Nomad supports those classes with Attack Up All 2 and does solid damage himself. It’s easy to look at Poison Bubble and think it sucks compared to Grumpkin and the Rogue kit, but it has some solid advantages. Since it’s a spell, rather than a trap, it can be boosted with stat manipulation spells. It has reasonable AoE, is pretty cheap, benefits from Nomad’s crit bonuses and triggers Special Effect on it’s own damage. As long as normal enemies aren’t shielded or immune, Nomad can simply tear them to pieces with spell spam. If Lunatique works like in the original, Nomad also accounts for 20% of your team’s damage against bosses automatically. The problem is that while he has versatile options against bosses and normal encounters, he’s not overwhelmingly strong at any one thing and requires support from other characters to shine while only contributing niche support himself. I still think Nomad could be very good on the right team, though, particularly depending on Nature Aura’s interaction with certain passives.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 09:14
|
|
|
Oo Koo posted:Also, crystalline is actually pretty cool if you bind it to a hotkey, and have some way to generate enough mp to spam it. It has a short enough cast time that you can use it as an active parry with a practically infinite timing window. Yeah, I was actually just thinking that Wall and Crystalline are probably better than I’m giving them credit for being if you’re good at using them. I did find I had trouble with MP on Nomad on a regular playthrough, though, even just mostly using Nature Aura, Moon Energy and Poison Bubble. Even with MP Move Saver, he needs some other kind of MP support to be able to go nuts with his spells. I think Nomad, Warrior Monk or Edelfrei (especially Edelfrei) and any Riesz could make a really good team and I’ll probably try that out at some point. Now I’m doing Kevin, Duran and Riesz, aiming for Divine Fist, Edelfrei and Vanadys and am really enjoying how disgustingly strong Kevin is.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 12:19
|
|
|
Folt The Bolt posted:I don't think the HP percent Lunar spells work against bosses given my own testing, but yes; Nomad's Crit buff spell, ability to easily set up crits (even for itself) and very good ability synergy, probably makes it the third best class among Hawkeye's classes this time around (the best being Ninja Master and Rogue for AoE/debuff and pure DPS). Yeah, I actually bothered to use lunatique against a normal enemy and it applies a debuff icon, which it doesn’t against bosses. That just can’t be intentional. Half Vanish (I can’t remember the new English name) is already incredibly niche and is more than twice as strong. Even if it allows you to trigger status effect related abilities, it would basically never be worth it. Edit: I can confirm that Crystalline and Wall are quite nice on shortcuts. They’re quick to apply and help you ignore a lot of bullshit. MP is not an issue with the MP regen chain abilities the game hands out to you going into the post game. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 15:51 on May 4, 2020 |
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 15:29
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:To be fair, all of that is largely a NG+ problem. In a normal game, the system works out pretty good and adds a real element to team building, trying to figure out the best ways to earn and stack abilities across characters. NG+ ability stacking gets silly but I'm not gonna hold the fact that by the time you get to your final playthrough you only have so many arms to hold ALL THESE GUNS that just exist to go even further beyond. You're not going to have MP 0 or 200% CS at fight start for any significant part of Playthrough 1 to be fretting space for them in the middle of an 6 DPS modifier pileup. That’s my opinion as well. The systems completely break down in NG+ on more than one level, but that’s the fault of NG+ not being designed to accommodate them. Mr. Locke posted:If there's any post-release support for Trials (like, any at all) maybe they'll add a new difficulty intended to be played through with NG+ abilities, but even then it'd be pretty hard to balance that with any kind of reasonable success since poo poo like Unlimited Tier 3 Elemental Spells regardless of party and 300% Experience exist and would break any curve not built specifically around them. I think they could just block inheritance of the silliest chain abilities and prevent weak enemies from giving experience (ideally on a curve). Balancing the game to be harder in general without turning it into a slog for most parties or making the AI a horrible liability won’t be trivial, though, even before NG+.
|
|
#
¿
May 5, 2020 06:51
|
|
|
Yeah, they really shouldn’t have locked the 3rd tier classes behind an item. Just gating it to level and making it so you can only do it at the sanctuary is enough. Of course, that wouldn’t really be in the spirit of the remake. I loved the original and have been looking forward to this game a lot and it’s exceeded pretty much all my expectations. Reviews were pretty average, but I hope it is selling very well. Buzz in the community, at least, seems pretty positive. I bought the game on Switch, but I’m probably going to buy it again on Steam at some point for mods. I’ve even thought about getting it now to see if I could take a crack at modding it myself, but I’m broke and am not super technically proficient, so that might be too tedious before other people have figured out how to get into the game’s files and change things.
|
|
#
¿
May 5, 2020 09:55
|
|
|
jokes posted:I built Duran to be tankier but it just ended up where the other two died to aoe damage and he’d Rez them. Then I built him to be a healer but he’d still Rez the other two. Then I built everyone to be 100% damage all the time, and everyone stopped dying because there was nothing left to stop them. I’m on my second play through, just reached the sanctuary (no NG+) with a much more offense focused team (Monk, Gladiator, Valkyrie, good, but not an optimal mid-game melee team) and I feel way stronger. I never bother with Monk’s Heal Light and I never even come close to running out of healing items. I only heal with items, but I have more money because I never need to buy walnuts. Charlotte’s lack of offense and support (I had her in her dark class) meant I actually took more damage than I would without a healer. The gap between offensive and defensive classes is way too big.
|
|
#
¿
May 6, 2020 10:23
|
|
|
Just want to point out that debuffs aren’t nearly as rare in this game as the original, since a lot of characters have passives with on-crit procs that trigger debuffs. Light Duran has attack down, dark Duran and all of Kevin’s classes get defense down, Valkyrie gets magic down and Starlancer gets both attack down and magic down. If you’re not using the (game balance destroying) consumables, buffs are actually harder to find, though Light Kevin and all of Duran’s classes can buff their own attack. Otherwise you need light Riesz for reliable access to buffs. The crit skills aren’t reliable against normal enemies, but combined with Riesz’ pinpoint chain ability, they proc quickly against bosses, which is where they’re really valuable. So dark Riesz almost always brings less utility than light Riesz. On the other hand, I suspect Dragon Master, at least, could actually be a pretty serious damage dealer, which Riesz’ light classes struggle to do.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 02:53
|
|
|
Blackbelt Bobman posted:I got my guys to lv 99 and Black Rabite was still a pain in the rear end, great boss would fight again. That wouldn’t be that bad, I don’t think. Nomad and Vanadys aren’t nearly as bad as some people say. Duelist is completely inferior to Edelfrei on paper (rage and wound might be better in practice than I’m giving them credit for) but will still be able to hit 5 different elemental weaknesses with very high melee damage. I agree with the person who said a team that stacks a bunch of redundant healers would probably be the worst. Mr. Locke posted:Almost certainly it'd be Team No DPS- Light/Dark Duran, Light/Dark Rieze, and Light/Light Charlotte. At least Nomad Hawkeye and Duelist Duran can hit stuff ok, and Vandis Rieze's summon is a fair shot better then Star Lancer's. (I am... less and less enarmored with Star Lancer as it proves to be pretty drat useless outside being buff spells on a stick. Certainty wouldn't find it worth taking to enhance Liege Duran and High Cleric Charlotte.) What is the power on Seraph? Star Lancer gets mor int, but I’ve only taken Vanadys, so I don’t know the differences. I scoff at the tier list or commentary that put Star Lancer as Riesz’ best class and Vanadys as by far the worst. Star Lancer is the better buffer, but that’s pretty much all she has. If you set Vanadys up properly she’s not that much worse at buffing, but gets better defense and a very solid CS3 with good CS gauge generation. Heithinn Grasida fucked around with this message at 03:15 on May 7, 2020 |
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 03:06
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:Both Freya and Seraph are base 458, but I'd much rather get small then silence as a secondary effect. As far as I can tell, the only stronger one is Jorm on Dark/Light at 525. (Though further backed by Dark classes getting CS for summons.) Does small still stop enemies from giving experience? I just assumed it still does without checking.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 04:22
|
|
|
Mr. Locke posted:That I honestly don't know. Valkyrie gets Army of One as it’s locked ability (or whatever the name for the innate class passives is), which gives 1% CS gauge every time you damage an enemy. It stacks up pretty fast if you control Riesz, especially if you have someone with Nature Aura. Her strength is pretty high also, higher than Duran’s if she fills out her strength tree. She lacks damage skills herself in her light classes, but can contribute pretty decently if you pair her with someone with sabers.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 06:03
|
|
|
Melomane Mallet posted:Tell me more about this D/L/D party: is there a better 3rd class for each or is it a six of one, half dozen of the other choice? In the snes game, I used Kevin all of once and Charlotte never, so I have little/no idea of what to expect from them. I played a game with D/L Charlotte and didn’t like her at all. Her damage with summons was decent, but not great, healing was mostly irrelevant and her support was minimal. She gets good strength, but no good way to use it. I would play D/D Kevin, L/L Charlotte and any Angela. The team doesn’t support Angela really, but she’ll probably be fine anyway. Kevin benefits a lot from sabers and Attack Saber 2.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 06:09
|
|
How much would I (comparably) need to do in terms of support for L!Kevin?
|
I think Warrior Monk could be a really good hybrid support character on a team with MP hungry characters with good melee, like Nomad or Rogue. And Kevin is still Kevin, so he’s going to be doing a lot of damage regardless. Unfortunately healing just doesn’t really seem very important compared to just doing more damage.
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 06:44
|
|
|
Sacrificial Toast posted:All magic-ish things are Int, including Jutsus, Summons, and Nomad spells. All traps and thrown items are Luck. Normal attacks are strength. Class Strikes are your combined Attack and Magic Attack. I have so many questions regarding stats. What about Nightblade’s abilities? I assume they scale with luck, since they’re on the luck tree, but particularly black rain seems more magic-ish. I noticed Class Strikes scale with int, are they also affected by Magic Up buffs? What defense do they target? What defense do traps target? I didn’t notice their damage increasing substantially with either defense down or magic down on a target. I wonder if all buffs and debuffs of the same type are created equal. Obviously Riesz can upgrade her buffs and debuffs, but I wonder if the defense down from Broken Lines is the same as from Black Curse. Eventually I’m just going to buy the PC version and try to figure things out. One weird thing I’ve noticed — In my first play through, Vanadys’ Oracle buffed the whole team, but only on the first use. In my second play through it doesn’t. Is that an interaction with Nomad (random buff on the whole team at the start of battle) and if so, is it a bug? Has anyone else had this happen? I regret taking Vanadys instead of Dragon Master on my Kevin, Duran, Riesz game. I didn’t realize she could buff herself as well, that pressure point is just a generic attack up buff now that works in wolf form or that Duran would get access to his own attack up buff from an NPC chain ability. Divine Fist kills everything so fast that the only point of the allies seems to be to buff Kevin, but Duran is really, really good at that, while Vanadys is just sort of there for the show.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2020 07:56
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 13, 2024 04:12 |
|
|
EponymousMrYar posted:A stat tweak isn't exactly the most inspired Hard Mode, although 2x health is a good baseline to start normal enemies on. It’s not even a targeted stat tweak, just increasing the stats of all monsters in the game by the same amounts. Early game enemies don’t need nearly as much of a boost as enemies after getting access to class 3, and for those 2x health and more defense might still not be enough for the strongest party compositions. Of course, it’s probably just a proof of concept at this point. Hopefully people will be able to do more in the future.
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2020 03:47
|
|