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Have a safe trip! Somehow I missed out on this thread until now. The sporking that’s been referred to I read in real time as much of it posted. If anyone following this is interested in how Twilight did so well then plummeted off the popular map I encourage you to look up Mervin’s reviews of various forum posts, interviews, and other communication Meyer herself had with fans, including a post from her brother-in-law where he responded in an rear end in a top hat way. This would have a ton of spoilers though so wait for the books to be done. There’s another very old review, the “Sparkledammerung,” which was made by an LJ user who had left the Mormon church as a young adult. If you have interest in how Meyer’s upbringing and religion likely influenced her work, check that out, again very spoilery. I believe it was referred to earlier in the thread but there are parallels with how Edward and Joseph Smith are described; also the “imprinting” is interpreted as the idea that in Mormon faith you have a predestined spouse. If anything this thread is making me appreciate the secondary characters more. I already support Leah Clearwater big time for a series I overall despise; Twilight is an exercise in wasted potential. While I’m glad it popularized the genre it’s so frustrating to see so many interesting ideas squandered.
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Dec 14, 2019 13:17
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For a moment I thought they wore contacts to blend in, but then I remembered Meyer made a post on one of the old fan forums where she explained how her vampires have “venom” that’s overridden every fluid type in their body and it would dissolve contacts. I could be remembering the contact part wrong, but I swear the venom itself is totally true, including the detail that it’s highly flammable.
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Jan 2, 2020 16:47
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Not to get too spoilery (and I can edit this out if so) but the issue of motherhood does come up later on.
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Jan 16, 2020 05:58
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Seagull Fiasco posted:Maybe it bugs me a bit extra because a lot of this - the jealousy, the damsel in distress needing saving, etc - is stuff that was presented as normal and good relationship features in a lot of the popular culture I grew up with This is where Meyer is writing from. Not as a conscious decision of “fantasy,” but because this is how relationships work in her world, as sadly they do in the world of a whole hell of a lot of people. When the context is right chitoryu please post Meyer’s quote about putting a hand in an ice bucket. The implications of that one were fairly  as I recall.
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Jan 21, 2020 07:26
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I agree that’s why a ton of teenagers (especially girls) liked Twilight, and also why a lot of them either grew out of it, or turned sour on it given how Bella’s married “adult” life turned out.
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Jan 21, 2020 20:21
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That’s the worst aesthetic board I’ve seen in a while. Downright cursed.
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Jan 22, 2020 13:07
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For anyone noticing how the story really likes to treat Leah Clearwater like poo poo, keep in mind “Leah” is the name of Meyers’s sister-in-law.
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Jan 29, 2020 20:06
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chitoryu12 posted:Has any work ever been more perfect for fanfiction writers? She somehow managed to craft the world's most frustratingly wasted story. She made not only a bad series, but one that focuses on the exact opposite of what it should every single time. It's an impressive level of commitment to making the wrong decision at every choice she can, to the point where it could be mistaken for intentional. Go look for a Twilight fanfic called “The Wedding Crashers.” It’s  and a bit silly on the part of the writers, but it’s also cathartic in terms of some of the stupidest aspects of this books getting comeuppance.
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Jan 30, 2020 10:48
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Carsile is such a hypocrite, a holy man and doctor who stands by while antagonists murder a literal and figurative child. It’s not the only example but it’s an egregious one. Meanwhile Jane is played up as so dangerous and awful, except this scene makes such little sense because you have: - The Cullens, who despite all of Bella’s needless whining are all some level of powerful - rapid-healing werewolves in the area that the antagonists aren’t used to dealing with - the local police aka Charlie who at this point may have been alerted to fires in the area I kind of hate how Meyer’s bland choices lead me to writing fanfic: imagine the high-stakes fight you could get here if Carsile actually stuck to his guns and told the Voltari to shove it, causing characters to be at risk, the Voltari’s shock as the werewolves come in for the last-minute save Jane et al aren’t prepared for, secondary characters on both sides die fighting for what they believe. Keep Bree alive to show Bella what she has to look forward to but give her some real second thoughts about what immortality will involve. But then Meyer would have to make things hard on her characters, and we can’t have that! I’ve seen it said that a sign of caring about characters is making them suffer, not needlessly but making them really work for emotional growth, reaching their goals, etc. I don’t know if Meyer just didn’t care and wanted to pad her story out to her wanted ending, or if her own life has been so privileged she couldn’t imaging greater suffering than standing passively by and doing nothing to work toward an outcome?
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Feb 25, 2020 13:49
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I’d forgotten about the epilogue and how utterly poo poo everyone is to Leah Clearwater. So awful in fact one chapter-by-chapter review had a running tally for every time she was poorly treated for no reason that ended up in the dozens.
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Feb 29, 2020 09:53
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The Twilight Illustrated Guide came out pretty late in the popularity of the books/films and had a lot of information about characters that never appeared in the books, again pointing to Meyer’s ability to come up with some interesting premises but not following through or being so fixated on Ed and Bells she fails to recognize her more exciting ideas. The Bree Tanner novella was meant to go in the illustrated guide but was cut for length. Who’s Bree? A background throwaway character and her story focuses on? Yep, a love triangle.
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Apr 24, 2020 13:35
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It’s been a long time since I read the actual wedding scene. I try to not make assumptions about an author’s personal life on a first read, but seeing it again years later and. Well.  This chapter is one of the better-written ones, that’s for certain.
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Apr 25, 2020 13:21
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Thousands of dollars of shoes on the back bumper. I wonder if they’re Alice‘s, who’s said to wear things once and has a massive closet full of clothes. So new money you could heave.
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Apr 28, 2020 00:50
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The live journal “Das Sporking” years ago had categories counting what they felt were the most common offenses in the books and one was called “Let’s poo poo on Leah” because it happens so often. I think I brought this up before but also remember that Leah is the name of one of Meyers’s sister-in-laws - several of the secondary and tertiary characters are named after family (Seth is another example) but it comes off weird at best after what this character goes through.
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Apr 28, 2020 23:44
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Grammarchist posted:I wonder if any vampires survived famous ship disasters over the years by simply swimming off into the horizon, or even sinking to the bottom and walking. This would be one of my first moves as a vampire. Go look at all the cool ocean poo poo, find sunken pirate ships and intact liquor and treasure and stuff. I forgot how utterly awful the honeymoon chapters are. As if the gender and sexual messages aren’t bad enough, some good old fashioned racism got in there too! There’s zero reason for the cleaners to be there from a story standpoint. I don’t know why Meyer went with showing them other than to get the “tee-hee vampire seducing a human” remark in there. While I wasn’t present for the fandom meltdown, I’ve read contemporary accounts of how a HUGE chunk of fans began to sour on Meyer because of these chapters and much of this book. While I don’t think anyone expected a hyper-explicit sex scene, many at least thought they’d get something akin to flowery romance novels their parents and libraries failed to hide. Plus by now many young readers were 18 or older, having grown up with the books and by extension Bella herself. It didn’t help that Meyer would drop all kinds of coy hints on the most popular fan forum of that time, either (along with some speculation that veers into the accidental but truly sociopathic). Hey chitoyru, I know we’re a ways off but when it’s time could you please post a picture of (spoilers for future chapters and film content) the unused animatronic toddler the film almost went with? Because holy hell.
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May 4, 2020 01:20
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I’m behind on the thread itself but eternal reminder that Meyer flounced off and didn’t publish Midnight Sun because someone leaked it, and that wasn’t the first time something like that had happened because parts of Breaking Dawn got leaked to a lesser extent. She just couldn’t resist sharing content with people who SWORE not to pass it on but WELP. Her attitude at the time came off like she was basically punishing people for the leak.
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May 4, 2020 19:31
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Dienes posted:Want to hear more about this. From the fandom-infamous “Twilight Lexicon Correspondence #12” in which Meyer spent over 6K words not answering why the Cullens spent their unlives in comfortable wealth instead of atoning for their sins in rags: Stephenie Meyer in 2007 posted:
Keep in mind she randomly showed up in the discussion thread, this wasn’t an AMA or the fans expecting her to reply. Meyer is of course not a sociopath, but failed to recognize (and perhaps still does) that all the Cullens to some degree are, Edward in particular. At least Bella was her self-insert, because by the time E.L. James profited off Meyer’s success we ended up with an even worse sociopathic self-insert in Christian Grey.
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May 5, 2020 05:22
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The baby talk adds an extra  layer to the whole thing.Grammarchist posted:She should just peace out and go hitchhiking like the 70's Incredible Hulk, solving small-town mysteries, exposing a diamond-smuggling ring at a regional zoo, and battling Sasquatch with her werewolf powers. There’s a fanfic (I know) called “The Wedding Crashers” where Leah teams up with the Supernatural guys. Again, I know. But if you spite-follow Twilight like I do it’s cathartic. Don’t recommend reading it until this review is done with though because spoiler city, unless you’re familiar with how this goes.
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May 7, 2020 20:22
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Also don’t worry if you don’t get married in life, you’ll be assigned a husband in Heaven!
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May 8, 2020 02:43
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Meyer attempted to write Jacob’s chapter like a typical teenage boy (because Bella is soooooooo not typical) and fails at it quite a bit. I figure she’s drawing on growing up with brothers because I believe her kids were too young at the time, but from an editing standpoint the word choice alone is just...not accurate for a 16 year old
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May 8, 2020 12:54
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I had completely forgotten about this part because Bella’s physical state stands out to me more and I can’t believe how grody this whole exchange is. With all the dancing around the actual subject I wonder how many readers caught on to the implications of what Edward was suggesting.
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May 14, 2020 08:25
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Is there anyone in this thread who read this as teens, or have family or friends who did? I’ve read overall descriptions on how some fans reacted to this book, and the pregnancy specifically, but never individuals describing how they took seeing characters they cared about handled this way.
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May 15, 2020 17:37
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For all you Old World of Darkness fans, you don’t how how badly I wanted to make a whole splatbook where the Prince of Seattle calls on anyone possible, potentially even supernatural beings that are normally enemies, because an upstart would-be new Clan of Kiasyd offshoots is about to allow a massive abomination be released upon the world and it’s going to take all the bullshit superpowers possible to stop them and the fake Garou protecting them.
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May 18, 2020 18:29
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MorgaineDax posted:https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2496478/twilights-gregory-tyree-boyce-is-dead-at-30 I was Team Tyler’s Van back then and I’m Team Tyler’s Van today. Poor guy.
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May 19, 2020 18:48
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Having only read summaries and smaller snippets of this part, the potential this part has is frustrating. I like the idea of Bella recognizing and accepting she needs human blood for her and her little monster to survive, but we don’t get her perspective! And honestly I can empathize a little with Rosalie, trying to be there for someone when there isn’t a drat thing you can do to help them otherwise, even overcoming/coping with personal trauma to support the other person. As much as I groaned in dismay when I learned Midnight Sun was getting published, a small part of me would be excited if in all this time Meyer worked to improve her writing and storytelling, maybe even accepting the horror aspects of what she’s written.
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May 22, 2020 18:47
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Eh, I can go with “vampire abomination wants blood,” what I dislike is everyone being given the idiot ball until Jacob stumbles into the answer. Carsile with the past century alone of new medical knowledge should have been able to parse the fetus needed certain proteins or whatever is in blood and given an IV accordingly. I could even roll with some magical vampire BS were the story told well. In old WoD Vampire you couldn’t eat because your digestive system no longer functioned, but could use the energy blood drinking gave you to do so in order to blend in, which could have consequences down the line. But of course Meyer-pires “don’t change,” so it’s obvious what a plot-driven part this is, because you could argue Carsile isn’t capable of learning/retaining new knowledge. Until he is.
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May 23, 2020 17:44
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Rathbone is Jasper’s actor, btw
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May 23, 2020 23:05
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Given Rosalie’s background a racist, ignorant screed against indigenous peoples is the most in-character thing she’s said in many, many chapters. I’m betting Meyer didn’t intend it that way.
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May 30, 2020 13:53
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Is there a tally for all the times Leah get poo poo on? It feels bizarre for one character to endure so much grief in a story that isn't a kafkaesque comedy. The blog “das sporking” had a count literally called “Let’s poo poo on Leah” and per their reading there are 108 instances in Breaking Dawn, with 98 in Jacob’s section. They also assessed that Leah is the only character with a genuine narrative arc, having to face her struggles and experience change as a result (regardless of her story’s quality).
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Jun 2, 2020 04:24
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While the chapter feels unrelated it’s in part to provide context to why the murders in the story take place to begin with. When questioned about that chapter Doyle stated “all I said about the Danite Band and the murders is historical so I cannot withdraw that, though it is likely that in a work of fiction it is stated more luridly than in a work of history.” That said, he had access to contemporary accounts of people who left and were excommunicated from the Mormons, including women who left and wrote about how poorly they were treated. One of Young’s sons tried to claim Doyle privately apologized, but this was after Doyle’s death. I call bullshit. While that chapter drags on compared to the rest of the story, Doyle was very effective at making you care about these people struggling to cross the wilderness in the US only to be be eventually betrayed by the Mormons who “saved” them, so I get kinda defensive of it. quote:Some passages have been interpreted as allowing the skin of the Lamanites to finally lighten once they accept God truly, which associates Mormonism with whiteness. Reminder that Meyer-pires don’t just become sparkling, but are described as turning pale. All of them. Even the ones who are indigenous Brazilian, Mexican, and Egyptian (all examples we see later on). While it’s poorly described, the implication is not cute, and given the context can be interpreted as horrifically racist.
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Jun 3, 2020 13:57
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Is this about where Edward begins to become a non-presence in the story? Imagine being into these books as a teen/young adult trying to finish the series you started and it turning into the Bella and Baby Power Hour.
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Jun 4, 2020 13:02
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I read many of the later das_sporking Twilight entries as they were published and several times they reminded people their community wasn’t the place to speculate deeply on Meyer’s personal life, but what this chapter, some later chapters, and some of Meyer’s forum posts indicated....
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Jun 5, 2020 17:13
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The only thing I remember about The Host is Melanie is described in the very first or second chapter as raiding an abandoned human settlement for food and taking the heaviest, most nonsensical items for what is supposedly someone on the run. Including milk. Not powdered milk, not some weird future alien milk, just “milk.”
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Jun 6, 2020 18:51
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The first takedown of Twilight I ever read was the “Sparkledammerung” published on LiveJournal back in 2008. Written by author Laura Stone, she was an ex-Mormon who noted the way Edward was described in the books felt oddly similar to how Joseph Smith was talked up when she was a kid, and came off like Meyer low-key wanted to smooch the founder of Mormonism.
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Jun 7, 2020 21:45
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I keep referring back to das_sporking but among their counts was “Hail the Mother Goddess” for every time the concept of motherhood was held high and lofty even when the character or reason behind it was far less so. The third part of this book is where that count really ramps up.
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Jun 8, 2020 20:33
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Yeah, it’s a dated style choice ala MST3K that I saw more of in the early-mid aughts. You’d have a terrible Harry Potter story, for example, and you’d use the characters as a way to sit down and riff on it. While it clearly falls under parody, people being pissy over this is what got MST3Ks and other parodies banned from FF dot net many years ago, causing a shift to LJ where communities could be behind a sign-up. I also think working through other characters was a way to mix up the boredom of what a slog so much of this series is as well as just for fun since the riffers had written their own fanfic for other series for years.
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Jun 8, 2020 21:38
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So special that she avoids going ballistic the moment she hears ‘keep the baby away.’ Bella supposedly wants this baby even more than vampirism. For her to resist exploding into a brief violent rage feels out of character!
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Jun 10, 2020 14:05
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Finally, the animatronic! Yay! The whole imprinting reveal is written like Meyer thought this was comedy. Oh ho ho, now this explains all that confusion! Isn’t that just something? Ha ha, new mommy Bella is just soooooooo mad, just like every new mom! How silly women are, wanting to protect their newborn daughters from older men who will want to marry them someday!
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Jun 18, 2020 17:26
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I wonder if Meyer would have better success writing from omniscient instead of limited third person, and if her insistence on writing the latter contributed to the confusing inconsistencies on which character is mad about who/what at X point in the story.
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Jun 23, 2020 14:04
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I was telling someone about War of the Colossal Beast last night so all I could think of during the measuring scene was “Reneesme was sixty feet tall!”
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Jun 24, 2020 19:15
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