DNC Primary: Biden: Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > DNC Primary: Biden: Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.

Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed.
Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher	18	1.46%
Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer	665	54.11%
Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker	319	25.96%
Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord	26	2.12%
Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe	5	0.41%
Julian Castro, the Twin	5	0.41%
Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer	5	0.41%
Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath	17	1.38%
Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino	3	0.24%
Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist	8	0.65%
Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen	86	7.00%
Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater	23	1.87%
Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool	32	2.60%
Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy	2	0.16%
Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast	1	0.08%
Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated	4	0.33%
Tim Ryan, the Dope Face	3	0.24%
John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran	7	0.57%
Total:	1229 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

So this picture has been making the rounds.

But now I found out that labour Unions had to drag Bernie kicking and screaming to get the staff wages increased from $13 an hour to $15 an hour?

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 05:46

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 21:21

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

oh you just found that out did you really interesting thanks for bringing these tremendous facts to the thread's attention

Yes I did. Because I was having an argument with a Conservative smugging about Bernie struggling to pay the minimum wage he himself loudly fights for. So I remembered that chart and prepared my best "well actually" but googled in the last minute just to be sure, and found that he might have been sorta right?

And went here for confirmation in case there was some third dimension I missed before I actually return to that melee.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 06:12

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Oh Snapple! posted:

"Had to be dragged kicking and screaming" is definitely a neutral way to describe "standard negotiations took place and a fair alteration to the contract was made to account for the increased hours while not mucking up health insurance" and in no way engenders a suspicion of bad faith.

I only communicate in hyperbole. It's in my nature.

Condiv posted:

just a quick reminder that the guy google fired for being a sexist shithead and making his workplace more toxic for women and minorities fired an NLRB suit against google

be careful of accepting the media's framing of this issue. in any other business or industry, what bernie was offering would be counted as $17/hr. suddenly the media cares about salaried workers working more than 40 hours though, so they're saying the workers were working for $13/hr. Also, there doesn't appear to be any fuss between the union for bernie's campaign and the management. the union certainly did not give the impression that bernie's campaign management was trying to keep them from getting $15/hr for the new working hours.

as far as I'm aware, this is how it went down. the original union contract was $36k per year, which was around $17/hr. the management needed people to start working 50-60 hours per week, and apparently some people were doing so while the contract was being renegotiated to bump people's pay up for that. the contract negotiations were leaked to wapo, who framed things as "bernie pays people $13/hr and he doesn't want to pay more!!!!" pretty disingenuously. the contract negotiations completed recently and people are being paid more per year to work 50 hours a week. end of story

That's actually fair.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 06:55

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

Cool, cool. Well now that Condiv has set you straight I'll expand on that and give you some advice:

First of all, I would advise not to engage conservative shitbirds at all. But if you must, simply state the facts and leave it at that. Do not engage further, do not let him move the goalposts, just assert that he's wrong and that you won't hear any more of it. Don't waste your time.

Good advice.

I only do it for practice and to help make sure my own views stays..... True? Truthful anyway. Through constant assault.

And as a previous poster pointed out. The chart I linked was misleading and I should probably stop using it.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 07:09

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Skex posted:

I personally fail to understand why anyone thinks that Bernie's campaign union doing what unions are supposed to do is a ding on him for having one. A union that doesn't agitate for better terms for it's membership isn't worthy of the name.

I guess people felt that a union should never need to confront Bernie about anything.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 19:44

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Can anyone help clear up the last primary?

I know that the DNC was heavily in favor of Clinton and that this bias affected the primary. But people will argue that the primary itself was rigged. That Bernie either got more votes and still didn't get picked due to super pacs or that it was literally rigged when it came to the votes themselves.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 06:07

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

mormonpartyboat posted:

i am going to carefully read every candidate's website, and consider the meaning of words such as "it is time to focus on the middle class"

A call for violent revolution. I approve!

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 08:56

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Honestly Trump is up to some evil crap I could never have imagined. And I set the bar pretty low.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 17:18

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

twodot posted:

What's an example? Because as best as I can tell Biden is saying he didn't realize Trump is such a dick that people would pretend not to speak English to avoid him, which was entirely predictable.

The trans thing for one. Trump probably didn't even know what a trans person is.

Ordering the justice department to investigate Hillary Clinton. Yeah I know "gently caress Clinton" but him trying to shift the US government to hunt his political opponents for revenge. I thought "lock her up" was just rhetoric but he did all in his power to try and make it happen.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 17:39

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

twodot posted:

Ok that ignoring the fact that Mike Pence is a person that exists, you don't think Trump heard about the bathroom ban stuff in 2015? Anti-trans is an extremely normal Republican position.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude, frequently I am trying to be rude, but this is not one of those times. You are not fit to predict what people will do, this is no fault of your own, it is just a skill that you don't possess. The fact that you thought the person saying "I want to lock her up" wasn't going to do that is not an interesting point of discussion.

What can I say. I'm an optimist. I want to believe the best of people.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2019 17:50

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Sorry to roll back on this again but did Bernie cut staff hours to reach the $15 an hour goal? All sources I google are just "Bernie DESTROYED by reality of capitalism" or opinion pieces.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2019 06:02

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Wicked Them Beats posted:

It may shock you to hear this, but this attack line is disingenuous. I know, I know, it's hard to believe, since we know that the Washington Post, owned by Jeff Bezos, man of the people, has the struggle of the worker at the center of their reporting, but bear with me.

Here's a quick play by play:

-Bernie's campaign offered the lowest paid staff $36k and full medical benefits, with the understanding that this would result in a $15/hr equivalent wage.
-However, staff ended up working more hours than expected. Possibly a failing on campaign management's part, but regardless, since the staff are salaried and earn $36k no matter how many hours they do or don't work, working more hours decreased the wage calculation as low as $13/hr for some staff.
-The union started negotiating with the campaign. The campaign offered a $6k pay hike in May but the union rejected the offer because it altered the medical benefit calculations.
-As a stopgap solution pending an agreement, the campaign cut working hours for staff to bring up their wage. This works because the staff are salaried; regardless of how many hours they work they get the same pay, so less hours worked plus same pay scale equals higher hourly wage equivalent.
-An agreement between union and management was reached: pay raises to $42k for lowest paid staff, who still receive full medical coverage at no additional cost to them. The campaign also adjusted the expected schedule so employees are generally capped at 50 hours of work a week, which should prevent the problem of some poor sap putting in a 70 hour work week which would lead to WaPo asking why Billy from Iowa is only getting paid $14.57/hr.

Long story short, this is a picture of a positive relationship between union-represented employees and management, with the union properly representing the interests of the workers. In a campaign that didn't have a union, it's very likely these issues would have remained invisible or unspoken until well after the election was over. But instead the issues were raised and addressed in a timely fashion and seem to have been addressed in a way that is satisfactory to all involved.

Sounds reasonable.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2019 06:38

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

HootTheOwl posted:

Bernie's employees were salaried at ~15 an hour.
Then they started working more hours, which effectively lowered their pay to ~13 an hour.
Bernie offered some compensation, but due to the magic of health insurance it would have ended up cutting their pay even more.
So they agreed to the same salary, but fewer hours. Effectively raising their pay and cutting their hours.
In the end they're getting paid the same and having to work fewer hours to do so.

Yepp someone cleared this up. Thanks.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2019 13:28

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Someone on the forums linked this which was interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGuaoARJYU0

It addresses the coming election and his prediction is that Trump is going to win because his base is more motivated than ever.

That the 3 realistic candidates against him are Biden, Warren and Sanders.

Warren being the most competent candidate with thorough and well documented policies. But that this approach to an election is futile because you can't reach people with 100 pages of detailed policies. You reach them with a simple slogan that they can project themselves onto. So they can fit their hopes and dreams into the candidates policies.

Sanders lacks the broad appeal needed

Biden is the most likely candidate to win the primary but if Biden brute forces his way through the primary then he will alienate the minority votes he needs to win. That Biden polls best among centrist Republicans who aren't going to vote for him anyway.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2019 10:13

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Cerebral Bore posted:

See, this is where the bullshit starts to smell real bad.

You greatly overestimate him. His attacks on Corbyn smelled way worse.

He also says that global warming will be solved by the market because when things get bad enough. The rich will mobilize to save their own asses and in doing so the world powers will shift towards green policies in record time.

The logic is simple: Do nothing and die, try and fail and die or try and succeed and live. The best investment is therefore to try regardless of odds.

Even if this was true it still assumes that it's not too late by the time imminent annihilation faces rich people in real time.

Eschenique fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jul 30, 2019

# ¿ Jul 30, 2019 10:25

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

MSDOS KAPITAL posted:

The problem with this thinking is that it assumes that human beings can solve all problems, once they try. It completely precludes the notion that we could gently caress the climate so badly that there is no way to fix it no matter how many resources the capitalists throw at it. It's also solving the tragedy of the commons by simply waving a hand and claiming that, once the problems gets bad enough, people will magically start behaving in completely different ways. History is rife with examples of groups of people driving right off a loving cliff even when the inevitable result of their actions was obvious to everyone - both in-group and out.

I like Mark Blythe (and full disclosure I am responding only to your summary of the video - I haven't watched it yet), but this seems to miss the mark.

btw I hope you saw my apology to you earlier

I hadn't but I went back and found it.

It's fine I didn't take it personally at all

# ¿ Jul 30, 2019 20:42

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Groovelord Neato posted:

https://twitter.com/freedaaron/status/1157327369608343552

This is like when Republicans try to show why the electoral college is actually good :v:

# ¿ Aug 2, 2019 18:33

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

kidkissinger posted:

Wouldn't they accelerate towards him after a 360

# ¿ Aug 7, 2019 10:41

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Majorian posted:

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1159667917111353344

So did May in the mirror every evening for the past 30 years.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2019 05:23

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Main Paineframe posted:

It is increasingly clear that this isn't just good old Joe "talks before he thinks" Biden at work anymore. This isn't the wacky "occasionally forgets things" Biden. This is more like "when your apparently healthy grandparent had a clear mental decline several months before their sudden drastic illness and rapid physical decline". I've had millennial friends see videos of his confused moments and immediately say, without any prompting, that he looked exactly like their senile and infirm grandparent did.

Hah. You wish Biden would crash in time for the primary. Sweet release will not be granted and Biden will stay lucid long enough to win the primary and then lose it 1 week before election.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2019 05:25

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Obama only picked Biden to not spook the old white people.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2019 17:55

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

I was pretty young during the primaries for the 2000 and 2004 elections.

Is it normal for these snowballs-chance-in-hell candidates to linger for so long?

# ¿ Aug 9, 2019 20:27

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

HootTheOwl posted:

Warren is going to get killed by Trump.

the DNA test thing was pretty awkward. Warren stepped up to bat against Trump in a battle of wits and Trump just soundly defeated her.

Usually Trump ignores an opponents arguments or talk over them while being demonstrably wrong to anyone with a brain.

But here he set up the trap and she went right into it. She accepted his deranged parameters and stepped into his arena thinking if she had facts on her side then he would somehow admit being wrong for the first time ever in his life and also hand over free money.

Instead she ended up insulting the native American community and creating the whole 1000th part native American meme.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2019 05:40

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

It seems grossly optimistic to assume that Warren will beat Trump as a Hillary but better option. As if it's a do-over of '16 and Trump hasn't been president for 4 years.

Trump beat Hillary as just a niche candidate. Since then he has filled the system with his people and to right wingers he has made himself a symbol of America

# ¿ Aug 10, 2019 06:15

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Warren is going to line up her 5 paragraph speech on social issues and Trump will break in with "You know the Warren campaign employs illegals. We sent ICE to collect them and she begged me not to and she said "Donald" she said "I need these guys because they're so cheap and I can't do it without them" and I told her that no you can't have that and for America we have to do the right thing and they don't belong here.

And Warren is going to be stunned and bring evidence refuting this to the next debate.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2019 17:50

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# ¿ May 9, 2024 21:21

Eschenique: Jul 19, 2019

Chilichimp posted:

So just to be clear, you'll never vote for Liz Warren, and it's because ~~she believed her mom her whole life and then got goaded into a DNA test and published the results~~ she's racist?

The thing about the DNA test is that it never mattered It didn't matter to Trump, to his followers, to her followers and especially not to the native American community. Being native American is about holding that identity and being part of their struggle. Living that life and facing their problems.

If a person doesn't have any experience as a native American then their DNA doesn't matter. Even if she was 50% native American it wouldn't matter as long as she was born white and raised in a white middle class family.

That she used her DNA test to imply even a fraction of a membership of the native American community was an insult to them.

What she would have done is not get the DNA test. Maintained her story and just used her political influence to support the Native American community in a positive way.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2019 21:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > DNC Primary: Biden: Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.