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No one else has to be with me on this, but I'm calling those lumps Lazza and Bazza in my head. This looks amazing already. 
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Jul 6, 2019 16:36
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My gut re: using one ECU to control two engines with a timing variability, is that it will be fine at idle, but would create unmanageable ignition timing issues as RPM increases.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:12
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angryrobots posted:My gut re: using one ECU to control two engines with a timing variability, is that it will be fine at idle, but would create unmanageable ignition timing issues as RPM increases. That's what i'm thinking, but it would think it would be at most 1-2 degrees out either way. They're simple engines with no VVT or VVL. Bad things happen with too much timing, engines pull timing to be safe and the rear engine would be ahead under load if there is any real flex so it seems like it would be safe to run the engine off the rear engine's sensors, as basically any flex would have the effect of pulling timing from the front engine, which the ECU would already do. If the front engine is even 2 degrees ahead at full load and the 2 matching cylinders are set to inject and spark at the same time, It would basically have the effect of pulling 2 degrees of timing from the front engine, which is the safe direction to go. Once i get the flex disk, i can put a couple hundred ft/lbs of torque on it and measure the flex to see if it will really be an issue, but i think as long as it's set up to pull timing under load from the piggybacked engine, i think it should be fine.
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Jul 6, 2019 17:34
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I'm interested for Suburban Dad to weigh in on this, cause it's his expertise. But IMO I think that even as small difference in mechanical timing would have a watershed effect on ignition timing, with a bigger differential needed for proper combustion as RPM and loading increase. I hope I'm wrong, cause it's a nice simple solution!
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Jul 6, 2019 17:55
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Sweet fancy Moses this project kicks rear end
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Jul 6, 2019 18:25
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Twerk from Home posted:You made me look up that BMW V12, and yikes. Don’t forget - they also had a third computer to tie the two together and control the dual drive by wire throttle bodies. In 1991. Yikes is right. The good news is new throttle bodies are available and cheap - just under $2,000 each.
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Jul 6, 2019 18:41
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I don't suppose there's a fiscally feasible method to measure torque load on the coupler for purposes of tuning? I'm thinking of how digital torque wrenches work, scaled up, for measuring deflection differential. Alignment marks with an optical sensor? Hall sensors? Youd have to have a good idea of the couplers flex and tensile strength. This might be overly complex. I just love data, really.
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Jul 6, 2019 18:54
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Beach Bum posted:I don't suppose there's a fiscally feasible method to measure torque load on the coupler for purposes of tuning? I'm thinking of how digital torque wrenches work, scaled up, for measuring deflection differential. Alignment marks with an optical sensor? Hall sensors? Youd have to have a good idea of the couplers flex and tensile strength. This might be overly complex. I just love data, really. Use the crank position sensor on the front engine for delta between crankshaft angles. 
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Jul 6, 2019 18:57
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Powershift posted:Use the crank position sensor on the front engine for delta between crankshaft angles. Oh, that's a MUCH better idea 
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Jul 6, 2019 19:02
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angryrobots posted:I'm interested for Suburban Dad to weigh in on this, cause it's his expertise.  Can't say I would know where to start with this one, it's a bit far from conventional. I mostly did airflow which is waaaaaaaaay simpler in this case vs. spark and engine timing. However, I'd definitely go with 2 ECMs because you'll want that closed loop control of both as stated. I don't know how Ford does their ECMs (especially old rear end ones like that) but they're likely just engine speed vs load versus newer (torque based, etc) methods. You're probably going to be off the maps in some places (loads achievable at engine speeds you couldn't hit before, etc.) and have to do a little work tuning is my guess, but probably not a ton. If it's not boosted I can't imagine a couple degrees of timing will make a huge difference if you're using decent gas to cover yourself. Still, use 2 ECMs.  Or a MS that will use sensors from both.
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Jul 6, 2019 19:23
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Suburban Dad posted:
Yeah, that's what i figured considering even the Aston has 8 O2 sensors.  It would have been so much cheaper and easier. I just don't think there are enough mounting points on the block that i could tie them together solidly enough that i would be comfortable tying the frankshaft together rigidly. e: Hmmmmmmmmmm quote:Twin 40IDFs can feed 1500-2200cc engines. Lamborghini used 4 of the 40IDFs on the 2.5L V8 Urraco in the 1960s. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carb-Carbu...lEAAOSwu4JcYPB9 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Powershift fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 19:45
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You are loving nuts Do it
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Jul 6, 2019 22:40
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Powershift posted:hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm + simple wiring loom + excellent noise - tining and syncing may be a bit of an excersize - may comptomise fuel economy
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Jul 6, 2019 22:44
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DoLittle posted:+ simple wiring loom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6PqKhMtbvc  what the gently caress am i doing
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Jul 6, 2019 22:59
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Man, don't. The EMPI Chinese Weber IDF clones are about $400 apiece. So, six. I think you could probably come up with an engine management solution for that.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:03
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mekilljoydammit posted:Man, don't. The EMPI Chinese Weber IDF clones are about $400 apiece. So, six. I think you could probably come up with an engine management solution for that. Yeah, it seems with those cheap chinese shits it's hard to find even 2 that mach, performance wise, nevermind 6. Hard to believe with the $150K+ DB9 they couldn't figure out something more exotic than what is basically 2 Taurus throttle bodies and 2 Taurus ECUs. Powershift fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 6, 2019 |
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Jul 6, 2019 23:33
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I'll build you a megasquirt and help you wire it up. Edit: Just pay for the parts.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:36
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McTinkerson posted:I'll build you a megasquirt and help you wire it up. I think i'm going to have to just use factory ECUs because i'll need one to control the 5R55 anyways. The second will hopefully be out of a manual transmission LS. My wallet and body are starting to degrade so i'm going to have to slow down. I'll be pulling a harness/PCM on monday, and should have the trans then too. I've got a little solid state pump that should be able to make it at least idle if it ever will. It could be a few months before i can afford to move much further. Hopefully in that time a W124, and manual trans LS or S-type show up in the pick-n-pull. When the plan initially started with the 3.7s, i figured i could run 1 while putting everything together for the second, but i don't think 1 3.0 would be sufficient.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:51
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Remove the throttle bodies, replace with a giant y-pipe that runs to a single Holley clone.
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Jul 6, 2019 23:57
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McTinkerson posted:I'll build you a megasquirt and help you wire it up. I would take this man up on it. Dudes with miatas ran stock ecu in parallel to control fans and a/c while MS ran the engine back in the day. Don't see why you couldn't do something to that effect. If you're stuck with a stock ecu that's locked it may end up being rough to get it running right anyway. Custom project needs a custom solution. 
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Jul 6, 2019 23:58
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Powershift posted:I think i'm going to have to just use factory ECUs because i'll need one to control the 5R55 anyways. The second will hopefully be out of a manual transmission LS. Holy crap you could get an LS with a stick? Who was the market for that one? They must have sold like 11 of them.
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Jul 7, 2019 01:14
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Powershift posted:what the gently caress am i doing God's work.
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Jul 7, 2019 01:30
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opengl128 posted:Holy crap you could get an LS with a stick? Who was the market for that one? They must have sold like 11 of them. Yeah, they're rare but they're out there and i want one. V6 only, and only for the first few years. The LS is functionally the same as the S-type, which had a bunch of stick cars in the UK so it didn't really cost them anything. Also, i went on the internet and found this.  I'll be getting the engines bolted together first to determine how solid i can get them, but this might be a good option.
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Jul 7, 2019 01:30
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opengl128 posted:Holy crap you could get an LS with a stick? Who was the market for that one? They must have sold like 11 of them. Sure could!  I heard it was a pretty slick box too.
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Jul 7, 2019 15:58
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Mental Hospitality posted:Sure could! I don't know how much it shares with it's neighbors here, but it seems to be in good company. 
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Jul 7, 2019 16:28
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That's wild. Shame it wasn't available w/ the V8, that was my next question.
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Jul 7, 2019 19:21
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Got a trans, shifter, key, ignition, and PCM.  Still have a bunch of stuff left to find that i'm going to have to dig out of the pick-n-pull when cars come up. but at least i can start getting things set up mechanically.
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Jul 8, 2019 20:22
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I'm wondering if the best solution to the engine conundrum is to build a steel tube cradle that has solid mounts to each of the engines' stock mounting points, and then to have the cradle mount with a traditional rubber/urethane mount to the Continental. Even if the cradle weighs 100 lbs, you're still in the clear compared to the old iron lump.  opengl128 posted:That's wild. Shame it wasn't available w/ the V8, that was my next question. Ford has played "so close and yet so far" with their brands for the longest time. Every Ford vehicle in the 90's-2000's (save for the Euro Focus that was brought to the US) seems like a huge compromise between the accountants and the engineers. I think Ford kinda got a chunk of their soul back when they decided the GT needed to be a thing, but hoo boy them were some bland cars back in the day.
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Jul 9, 2019 03:32
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I was in a parking lot and I had an epiphany from the car next to me. You should be the only person in history that took a V12 from a 70s jag and transplanted into something, instead of just heaving it for a 350 like they always did.
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Jul 9, 2019 05:18
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slidebite posted:I was in a parking lot and I had an epiphany from the car next to me. I think there's at least two Jag V12 Miata swaps. https://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=280291&page=1&pp=25
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Jul 13, 2019 06:52
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Oh yes. This will be legendary.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:01
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Jesus Christ this is so ridiculous. So, if you're running 2 ECUs, wouldn't you just have to send the inputs to both and then let them handle the rest? Or am I missing something? I'm not super familiar with how it works, but wouldn't the ECUs just need to know throttle input? They'd be picking up their individual sensors from their respective motors and it shouldn't be too hard to split the throttle signal.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:31
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slidebite posted:I was in a parking lot and I had an epiphany from the car next to me. I offer you, the Jaguair, Jay Eitel's V-12 Corvair ... http://www.corvaircorsa.com/V-12-01.html
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Jul 15, 2019 17:04
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welp I am rigid. Subscribed.
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Jul 15, 2019 20:03
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autism ZX spectrum posted:Jesus Christ this is so ridiculous. Yeah, but the thought is it might gently caress with the load calculations of the rear engine having another 200hp coming into the front of the crankshaft. Once i get more things running i'll probably call SCT or Bama and get their thoughts on the situation. I still like the idea of clocking the engines the same and splitting the signal, but like some have said, then it might just sound like 2 V6s, rather than having them clocked 30 degrees out and having an explosion every 30 degrees like a V12 instead of 2 every 60 degrees. I'm hoping Bama can code both ECUs to 1 vin so i can control it all with 1 tuner. then tune the front engine to ignore the missing transmission and delete PATS, and then get them both tuned together on a dyno. That way down the road if i want to start looking for more power or more sound or something, it's easier to tune both engines. I'll need the one factory ECU at least to run the transmission. so if at that point they suggest megasquirt or something i'll go that way.
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Jul 16, 2019 19:58
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Is this running yet
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Jul 16, 2019 20:06
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bird with big dick posted:Is this running yet No, i'm still waiting for a 3.0 lincoln LS or Jag S-type to show up in the pick-n-pull. The one i found in the local junkyard was hacked up with stereo and remote starter stuff, so all i got was the PCM and ingnition.
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Jul 16, 2019 20:13
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What are your thoughts on cooling? Basically twin setup?
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Jul 16, 2019 20:20
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slidebite posted:What are your thoughts on cooling? Basically twin setup? The engines will be plumbed together, they have a single water inlet on the top of the block and 2 outlets on the back of the heads. I'll probably go with an electric water pump. I doubt the factory rad will be able to keep up, but i've got a lot of room to stick whatever aluminum bits in there. The DB9 rad is aluminum, but also maybe half the size of the stock lincoln rad.
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Jul 16, 2019 20:27
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wesleywillis posted:Is that the one that they were basically running as "two inline sixes that just happened to share a grankshaft"? Yep. Twerk from Home posted:You made me look up that BMW V12, and yikes. See? I wasn't kidding.
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Jul 16, 2019 21:19
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