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Lets go ahead and kick this thing off, a little early for August but we don't have to strictly match the calendar, if everybody beats the WAD early we can move on, but I'll make sure to give enough time so we don't feel too rushed THE CURRENT  From the man Romero himself, its SIGIL quote:SIGIL continues from the fourth episode, Thy Flesh Consumed, with the following story line: Download Link: https://www.romerogames.ie/si6il' (This WAD is intended to be run with Doom 1) Beginning with E5M1: Baphomet's Demesne, this WAD kicks it off pretty great with a very classic doom feeling design   Please feel free to share your thoughts (things you enjoyed and things you didn't) as you play through each level. Feel free to post screenshots if you want to reference a particular area of a level. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 28, 2019 |
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Jul 28, 2019 22:46
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Are we aiming to play on a specific difficulty or just whatever we're comfortable with? I know a lot of .wads and the base game are intended to be played on Ultra Violence, but I've heard Sigil is pretty brutal on UV.
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Jul 28, 2019 23:03
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I think just play on whatever you're comfortable with. Some WADs are definitely balanced for specific difficulties but we're not here to impress anyone. That being said, Sigil is definitely designed around HMP and on UV it's deliberately a LITTLE unfair.
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Jul 28, 2019 23:06
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Wow that's a lot of red. I was planning to play Sigil after I beat Thy Flesh Consumed on UV, but honestly that may never happen so here we go. I'm taking the coward's way out and doing this on HMP. Is the idea to discuss the individual maps on a schedule? Like, should I avoid discussing maps beyond M1 until some point in the future?
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Jul 28, 2019 23:10
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1stGear posted:Are we aiming to play on a specific difficulty or just whatever we're comfortable with? I know a lot of .wads and the base game are intended to be played on Ultra Violence, but I've heard Sigil is pretty brutal on UV. I'm definitely leaning towards "whatever you prefer", the focus is more on the wad design, so I think its all fair game to comment on. But then if you're playing on a weird difficulty, maybe mention that if its relevant to your comments. "This part was way too hard, so many enemies. I got killed a ton, but then I was playing on Nightmare so maybe that was a mistake" etc. Definitely some WADs have a recommended difficulty or don't even bother to populate all the difficulties, so just gotta adjust as we can. Also as mentioned last page, there's some PWADs which can allow you to tweak difficulty. Generally speaking HMP or UV are the main way to go. I don't think this should be like a toxx challenge thing where we all have to post proof of beating the level on UV within a time limit. I'm more just down for chill commentary on cool doom stuff.
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Jul 28, 2019 23:13
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While I was half joking about the Sunder thing I would like to nominate Rush which is a light/intro level slaughter wad with difficulty settings implemented. Before Rush I had basically only played up to halfway through Doom 1 ep 2 before getting distracted by other stuff (someday I'll finish it...) but I've known of and wanted to play wads like Sunder and Sunlust for a long time. After beating the first 4 maps of Rush I felt equipped to go take my shot at the first of those two, but I'd love to come back and beat the whole thing some time, and I think it would be pretty accessible to the audience here if I could jump into it on UV with my relative inexperience. It would also be more palatable to people who are put off by slaughter maps being "grindy" or hugely difficult as the maps are pretty short and sweet and on the easier side as mentioned.
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Jul 28, 2019 23:21
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Do some 90s as gently caress doom. Play some sky may be, Ghostbusters doom, Aliens doom, Tai Tenga stuff
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Jul 29, 2019 00:08
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This thread reminded me that I kinda forgot to pick up SIGIL when it came out, so I dropped some cash on the Buckethead version and will be giving this a go. While I'm at it, I'll throw a couple more recommendations for later on down the road, although we should certainly wait on deciding things until closer to the end of the month (Strawpoll to decide what comes next? A new thread with an embedded poll, perhaps? Or we could just yell a bunch in here and sort it out later  ):Violence: A 4 map episode by AD_79; features a kickass Dan Terminus soundtrack and a whole lot of purple textures. Meant by the author to be a nice, relaxing "Popcorn Doom" kind of set, although the last couple of levels can get pretty tough. The [ZDoom Community Map] Project "Take 1": One map, yes, but one stitched together by a variety of authors, and a good look at the powers of ZDoom mapping. Also has a very highly acclaimed sequel, in ZDoom Community Map Project II, that we should look at. Requiem: Pretty much the grand finale for the early days of Doom modding, back when people actually thought that Doom modding would stop with Quake out and established. Old school sensibilities abound in this set. Either of the Memento Moris might be good to play before this, since they share a lot of the same authors. Alien Vendetta: One of the WAD's released in the early 2000's that made people stand up and go: "Wait, Doom modding isn't dead." Does contain some slaughtery stuff as the set goes on, though. Also has a couple of bonus maps released for it years later! Scythe: Another highly influential mapset, with a ton of short and punchy maps in the first two episodes. Much like Alien Vendetta, gets pretty slaughtery in the final episode. Also sets us up nicely for Scythe 2, one of the most highly acclaimed megawads ever. ZPack: I think this one would be a very interesting set to talk about, since quality-wise it hits some pretty big highs (just about all of Vader's maps) along with some low lows (boy howdy, are some of those maps by the more obscure authors rough) and some interesting curiosities in between (oh hey, early Skillsaw maps!). Another very interesting primer into the pros and cons of ZDoom mapping. DisDisDis posted:While I was half joking about the Sunder thing I would like to nominate Rush which is a light/intro level slaughter wad with difficulty settings implemented. FInally, I second this, though we should probably wait a few months before we do it so as not to turn off anyone jumping into the wild, wonderful world of WADs so quickly. Slaughter is still slaughter, even with difficulty levels. EDIT: Nobody will read this far back, except me, and I found I forgot to complete a sentence. So that’s fixed now.
NuclearPotato fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 00:25
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played sigil recently so i'm not keen to do it again so soon; i didn't care for it on the whole. doom 1 in general just isn't as fun as 2, and a few of the levels (e5m4 or whichever one has the dumbass crushers and the boss level) were especially meh.
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Jul 29, 2019 00:27
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Overwatch Porn posted:played sigil recently so i'm not keen to do it again so soon; i didn't care for it on the whole. doom 1 in general just isn't as fun as 2, and a few of the levels (e5m4 or whichever one has the dumbass crushers and the boss level) were especially meh. Apparently it's an unpopular opinion but I totally agree. If Sigil weren't made by John Romero it wouldn't deserve a second (or even first) look. The difficulty curve is annoying (being forced to walk on lava/slime for one), the pacing is way off, everything is red so visually it's boring, it's way too overreliant on cacodemons and barons (since there aren't any of Doom 2's mid-tier enemies), and some levels are so simplistic and forgettable (looking at you, map 9). It's not even as good as Ultimate Doom Episode 4 and that came out in 1995.
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Jul 29, 2019 00:46
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Count me in; I'm eager for wads of all sizes. I cant wait for Sky May Be
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Jul 29, 2019 00:46
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NuclearPotato posted:(Strawpoll to decide what comes next? A new thread with an embedded poll, perhaps? Or we could just yell a bunch in here and sort it out later This is exactly what I was thinking. I've gotten enough great and varied nominations already, I figured I'd pick a selection of like 4 of them at random and then post a strawpoll and let the thread vote on what we do next.  Adding yours to my excel sheet, thanks! Overwatch Porn posted:played sigil recently so i'm not keen to do it again so soon; i didn't care for it on the whole. doom 1 in general just isn't as fun as 2, and a few of the levels (e5m4 or whichever one has the dumbass crushers and the boss level) were especially meh. Sorry about that, I was concerned that may be the case for some. Since its pretty short we can probably move on before a full month so hopefully we can find something more your style next. 
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Jul 29, 2019 00:46
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Gonna check out sigil later
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Jul 29, 2019 00:58
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Overwatch Porn posted:played sigil recently so i'm not keen to do it again so soon; i didn't care for it on the whole. doom 1 in general just isn't as fun as 2, and a few of the levels (e5m4 or whichever one has the dumbass crushers and the boss level) were especially meh. I'm on this map now and yup, I hate it. The maps that precede it are brutal genius, though. It's John Romero doom level design taken up to 11, with some steeply difficult fights in claustrophobic hellish locales and scenery that melts away into insanity. I dig it, but... yeah, the fuckin crusher map might be my last stop on this entry.
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Jul 29, 2019 01:04
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Sigil has a lot of great Romero "gently caress you" moments that I actually enjoy. The only thing I don't really like is the shoot-to-open things and the last boss but other than that it is a fun playthrough. It's not as wild or crazy as a lot of wads out there but as a lost episode 5 I think it's fine.
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Jul 29, 2019 01:19
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I had already forgotten how dark and light on ammo these maps are, also i keep tripping into the endlevel gates in the middle of a fight
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Jul 29, 2019 01:42
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I hadn't even realized SIGIL was released yet, seems like as good an excuse as any to play some DOOM again. If harder WADs are ever going to be under consideration, I'd nominate a bunch of stuff by Ribbiks such as Swim with the Whales, Stardate 20x6, Stardate 20x7, and Sunlust. Far as I'm aware they all have difficulty settings below UV that're significantly less challenging?
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Jul 29, 2019 02:31
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I'm on this map now and yup, I hate it. It's an odd map, the central path is phoned in but I thought the ruins on the left were wonderful, and I liked the right until the second set of crushers (the first set were a quick trap and you should be invincible then anyway). If it had slightly more lenient timing I'd say it was neat, but it's just a bit too precise.
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Jul 29, 2019 03:02
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As someone who just recently played through Doom I just wanna say the first the missions of Episode 3 suck big time. No ammo, no fun. E1M8 sign of evil song still so good though, will hear that whenever I think of Doom forever.
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Jul 29, 2019 03:24
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I've been playing a bunch of wads lately so I am all about this thread. Count me in. I just wrapped up a playthrough of Valiant: Vaccinated Edition + Lt. Typhon (gameplay mod) and it was super enjoyable. Valiant is a pretty challenging megawad broken up into five 6-level episodes. I feel like with vanilla gameplay it might be a little much in some places even on HMP, but with Lt. Typhon's high strength arsenal it was pretty manageable while still being hard. Definitely recommend Valiant for future consideration (maybe even with the gameplay mod). Now I'm playing Hell Forged, which is so far just a 9 level wad but each map is pretty tightly packed with secrets and wonderful design. Definitely a cool one to check out.
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Jul 29, 2019 03:33
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Prophet of Nixon posted:It's an odd map, the central path is phoned in but I thought the ruins on the left were wonderful, and I liked the right until the second set of crushers (the first set were a quick trap and you should be invincible then anyway). If it had slightly more lenient timing I'd say it was neat, but it's just a bit too precise. I'm gonna give the left path a go and see if I like that better. I figured out how to handle the first set of crushers on the right path but like, the idea of going through all that again just to end up at the 2nd set which is a tedious nightmare.... 
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Jul 29, 2019 03:57
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I sold my PC last year, had a friend send me a new beast of a computer.... across the country. Some damage to the motherboard or some such so I'm taking it over to the repair shop, but once I'm back up and running I'll join y'all. I'm a BIG fan of Total Conversions; and there's two undisputed champions in that field. 1) Aliens TC. The big badass original that, in my social circles, basically took "modding" mainstream. 2) Batman Doom. Probably my favorite mapset ever, with an incredible amount of variety across the board. Also some enterprising finally reprogrammed the drat thing so the new version plays nicely with sourceports. See y'all soon!
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Jul 29, 2019 04:02
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Narcissus1916 posted:2) Batman Doom. Probably my favorite mapset ever, with an incredible amount of variety across the board. Also some enterprising finally reprogrammed the drat thing so the new version plays nicely with sourceports. GODDAMNIT
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Jul 29, 2019 04:13
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Alright time to fire up SIGIL and get this show on the road!Tokubetsu posted:As someone who just recently played through Doom I just wanna say the first the missions of Episode 3 suck big time. No ammo, no fun. I feel like I'm the minority when I say that Episodes 3 and 4 are my favorites. They both have a bit of a rough start though, yeah. Narcissus1916 posted:Also some enterprising finally reprogrammed the drat thing so the new version plays nicely with sourceports. I don't believe you. This can't be true. It just can't!
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Jul 29, 2019 04:33
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I'm gonna give the left path a go and see if I like that better. I figured out how to handle the first set of crushers on the right path but like, the idea of going through all that again just to end up at the 2nd set which is a tedious nightmare.... So for anyone wondering, this is E5M4 "Paths of Wretchedness" I gave this map another try and I'm really glad I did. My opinion is still that the right-most path, which takes you through a tedious serious of raising floors and lowering ceilings, kinda sucks. But it's not as bad as I thought and it was a lot more palatable when I opted to go through the other paths first. The left-most path, in particular, left me with better resources overall, which made the remaining two easier to deal with. When I realized that i would be returning to the entrance to go down each path as a matter of course, I opted to make this the first map in the wad that I quicksaved in. Up until now I'd say the maps are short enough that it's not necessary, but at this point it's like... poo poo, do you really want to redo the same 2 or 3 gauntlets over and over again as you get crushed? I don't. I also saved at one point inside the crusher gauntlet itself because jeez o pete I just wanted to experiment without redoing the same Baron of Hell confrontation over and over again.
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Jul 29, 2019 04:34
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Yikes this WAD is a bit tough. I'll play on HMP but as penance I'll pistol start every map 
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Jul 29, 2019 05:00
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Where's the secret exit to E5M9? I played Sigil once before this, and then again tonight, and I just realized I never found that map in either playthrough. I assume it's a secret exit somewhere, maybe E5M3 if I remember how Doom 1 hid its secret levels. Echoing the sentiment that everything up to E5M4's crusher section is really good. But that section is just too precise and slow, and the pace really starts slowing down after that. E5M7 in particular is a drag even if it's relatively fun. It's just very cramped and claustrophobic, with overcomplicated architecture all over the place.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:08
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FPzero posted:Where's the secret exit to E5M9? I played Sigil once before this, and then again tonight, and I just realized I never found that map in either playthrough. I assume it's a secret exit somewhere, maybe E5M3 if I remember how Doom 1 hid its secret levels. E5M5.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:10
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Alright, played through the first couple, E5M1: Baphomet's Demesne   This is a fun warmup map, the shooting targets to open paths thing felt pretty simple but also rewarding, map was nice and short and I beat it my first try on UV.   This final room with the cacos and pinky in a very tight area after immediately after going up the elevator was kinda cheap. Onwards and E5M2: Sheol   Reminds me of MAP01 of Doom 2, this start with enemies facing away. Kinda funny. You'll see I start with 14 hp here, but I was determined and thank god I found a hidden berserker pack to get me back to 100 so I was able to continue. This first area is fun, and the enemies warping in on you is kinda fun if a bit inconsistent.  This baron was the first thing that gave me a hard time, I died a couple times because I was foolish enough to go duel him up on his platform. Way easier to just shoot him through the bars and dodge his fire that way   This cyberdemon is an rear end in a top hat and the geometry walking around here gets a little funky. Feels like Romero is trying to be too clever.  This final gauntlet of enemies where I was low on ammo and then the lights started flashing out, that was a real rush! Surprise! Overall so far so good, although this feels like its quickly becoming like, a puzzle map set and not really as "vanilla" as some people bill it as. But so far I'm down, and looking forward to the "crushers" y'all were talking about, lol.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:31
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Because of multiple people talking about Sigil and the difficulty, I'm gonna reiterate: seriously consider playing on HMP. Even really experienced Doom players, it's gonna be a much smoother experience. UV definitely starves you for resources and keeps throwing Barons at you that you definitely don't have the ammo to kill unless you've been getting all the secrets. I highly recommend HMP just because it's a more balanced experience.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:34
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Glagha posted:Because of multiple people talking about Sigil and the difficulty, I'm gonna reiterate: seriously consider playing on HMP. Even really experienced Doom players, it's gonna be a much smoother experience. UV definitely starves you for resources and keeps throwing Barons at you that you definitely don't have the ammo to kill unless you've been getting all the secrets. I highly recommend HMP just because it's a more balanced experience. Yeah I have a feeling I'm about to drop the difficulty.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:37
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Zaphod42 posted:Overall so far so good, although this feels like its quickly becoming like, a puzzle map set and not really as "vanilla" as some people bill it as. I dunno. The only real "puzzles" here so far are bullet switches. I'm getting a lot of Inferno and Thy Flesh Consumed vibes from this WAD so it's right up my alley. I really forgot how much Romeo loves narrow dark corridors and lava pools though. drat.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:41
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Mak0rz posted:I dunno. The only real "puzzles" here so far are bullet switches. I'm getting a lot of Inferno and Thy Flesh Consumed vibes from this WAD so it's right up my alley. Its just the way the maps so far have flowed, where you move forward only a couple steps and then there's nowhere obvious to go, until you see the right switch or ledge to creep to. Very claustrophobic, having to fight on these narrow passages. It reminds me a LOT of E4M2 Perfect Hatred, the way that map flows. (Also a Romero)
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Jul 29, 2019 05:54
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Just finished Sigil in Hurt Me Plenty. I liked it, really good music and atmosphere. My biggest issue was how dark some parts were, and the crushers. I ended up saving scumming the crushers. Missed most secrets (some levels with 0 secrets!)and had to retry some levels a ton of times, even in Hurt Me Plenty, but I haven't played Doom in years and I've never been a particularly good player lol The only mod I used was Smooth Doom from the OP, and used mouselook.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:58
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Zaphod42 posted:It reminds me a LOT of E4M2 Perfect Hatred, the way that map flows. (Also a Romero) Oh yeah, definitely. Perfect Hatred is one of my favorite maps from Doom 1 but it would be nice to change it up a bit. Did anyone play his E1M8 remake a while back? It was really good. Romero still has good mapmaking chops.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:13
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UV tip: Chainsaw. It's your best friend against the million of Lost Souls that'll get thrown at you (the Pinkies/Spectres too). Don't waste ammo on them unless you've gotta, just let them come to you and hack 'em up. I started running a pretty good surplus of bullets after I started making use of it. There's also plenty of tight corridors to lead Cacodemons to, and you'll save even more ammo by chainsawing them there.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:30
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Arivia posted:E5M5. I looked and couldn't find it, so I looked it up. It's actually in E5M6 towards the end. Too bad E5M9 is pretty meh to awful as a map.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:30
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Glagha posted:Because of multiple people talking about Sigil and the difficulty, I'm gonna reiterate: seriously consider playing on HMP. Even really experienced Doom players, it's gonna be a much smoother experience. UV definitely starves you for resources and keeps throwing Barons at you that you definitely don't have the ammo to kill unless you've been getting all the secrets. I highly recommend HMP just because it's a more balanced experience. People were saying back when this came out, that the final room of the first map almost serves as a test on UV. If you can't deal with it drop down to HMP. Which is what I ended up doing on my first playthrough because that room is a bitch and a half on UV.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:43
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Mak0rz posted:Alright time to fire up SIGIL and get this show on the road! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuPC-J38X10 They even managed to recreate the unique boss attacks and patterns, which was apparently what caused Batman Doom to crash 99% of sourceports.
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Jul 29, 2019 06:50
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I think I'll post the vote for the next WAD towards the end of the week, from the sound of things lots of y'all have already managed to play through it entirely, and its only 9 maps so a week seems pretty reasonable.
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Jul 29, 2019 07:04
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