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I hope this doubles down on all the poo poo nobody liked. Throw the animatrix in there, make the story a continuation of that MMO, whatever. Really drive it into the ground.
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Aug 21, 2019 15:11
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GD_American posted:It's more that it seems like a plot hole that they're so numerous as to jump by the thousands from high-rises in a kamikaze attack, and apparently complex enough to sustain long-term relationships with (presumably) real human partners. Which....seems to undermine the whole waste-of-runtime bit. CarpenterWalrus posted:The Analyst specifically and explicitly says it's too much work for Agents to "overwrite a copper-top," so it's easier to saturate the human population with the bots, who are specifically and explicitly non-human programs. It's kind of weird that so many people in this thread are confused about it I don't know how this is being as badly misunderstood as it is. The movie layed it out very simply but somehow even it's efforts to explain itself clearly are misinterpreted. Bots are not programs pretending to be human. What is meant by "saturating the human population" is that for the same effort it takes for one specific agent with his gigabytes of personality, memories and physical appearence to download into only one person, you can instead simply bulk-download hundreds or thousands of unintelligent and crude bot programs into everyone within a certain radius. That's why they are living ordinary human lives with jobs and hobbies and relationships, and then you see the matrix code in their eyes, and then suddenly they have blank expressions on their faces and are dumb as poo poo. That's them becoming bots. Does this not make more sense than assuming that everyone in everywhere redpills ever go is not a bluepill? For them not to be real people in the numbers shown, the matrix would be almost completely uninhabited by actual humans. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:10
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DaveKap posted:Matrix comics (that I believe were supposed to be canon) show that when an agent is injured or killed, they transform back into the human they took over, and the human doesn't understand why they are injured... if they aren't dead. The bots, on the other hand, decompile into code when they die. This could certainly cause some confusing about what's what wrt bots vs agents. They don't though, not for most of the film. You see them get machinedgunned to death all over that japanese bullet train and then they're just corpses. Code flies out of them when they jump out of buildings and go splat, but that can easily be written off as an act of censorship. If you show people's bodies realistically bursting open from hard impacts over and over again your movie is unreleasable. There's the in universe question of how the machines choose to cover up bot swarm incidents. The train can be written off as terrorism, a bunch of people machinegunned and then a bomb set off. Three thousand people jump out of windows for several city blocks and that doesn't have a rational explanation. The matrix goo coming out of them might well just be them getting teleported back and memory wiped at the point of impact. It would fit with how they eraised Neo's office getting shredded by machinegun fire. NotJustANumber99 posted:i have no idea if thats right but it sounds like it makes sense, except the bit about everyone in a certain range cos aren't there scenes where one person in a bed or room turns into a zombie bot and the other just screams in shock? Not everyone gets got at once. They were gradually turning in the train scene. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Dec 25, 2021 |
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Dec 25, 2021 10:40
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DaveKap posted:...maybe it's just me but I feel like this immediately voids this entire discussion. the first third of the movie is about the conflict between the artist's intent and the contstraints and demands placed on her by warner bros agent smith says it out loud
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Dec 25, 2021 10:50
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PT6A posted:Not related to you specifically, but looking at some reviews and criticisms of this film, it's amazing the degree to which people can not only miss subtext but the actual text of the film itself. I don't think it bodes well for film as a medium, because if you have to spell out every tiny detail multiple times to make sure it doesn't go over anyone's head, it really hamstrings your ability to create art. The Scream making GBS threads Reviewer @ShittingReviewer time to livetweet the new matrix 🧵 first off they're just doing the beginning of the matrix 1 again only there's a blue haired sjw watching in the corner. that didn't happen in the first movie so this an obvious continuity error. i can't believe they could gently caress up so badly 💬 10 ♻️ 45.9K ⭐50.2K
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Dec 25, 2021 10:56
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The modal that new morpheus comes from was from Neo's perspective a dev build of the game running on his office computer, and when he's loving with it we see streight up matrix code rain on his monitor. So apparently the game is literally the matrix, but being ran recursively
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Dec 25, 2021 11:06
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VROOM VROOM posted:the jumpers were censored which is proof they are people. checkmate what happens to agent smith (and the person he would've been possessing at the time) when he dies at the end of matrix 1
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Dec 25, 2021 11:11
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Ichabod Tane posted:this movie sure won't get over reminiscing HorseLord posted:The Scream making GBS threads Reviewer @ShittingReviewer Crazy idea: finish watching the movie before forming your expert opinion on it. ideally by paying attention instead of having it on in the background while you scroll your phone
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Dec 25, 2021 20:11
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Nuts and Gum posted:I can't remember what happens to Smith. Neo punches him through a wall and then we never see him again I think? smartphones claim another victim
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Dec 26, 2021 07:04
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Nuts and Gum posted:I saw it in a theater but forgot some of the later details because of the student band screaming wake up! at the end while trinity smirks at the camera holding hands with her boyfriend it doesn't matter where you saw it. you were looking at your phone
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Dec 26, 2021 10:29
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SUNKOS posted:It was explained to me earlier that the whole reason he fights Neo in the first place is to stop him confronting the Analyst because he knows that Neo will lose (and it turns out he was right) which would result in Neo back in the pod and Smith once again losing his freedom. I do kinda wonder why they didn't just agree to team up in the first place however since that would have been interesting and well, they both essentially have the same goal. smith is a crazy person, he has goals but can't always try to reach them rationally. there was never any rational reason for him to take over the whole matrix with his clones, or to fight neo after he was no longer an agent, but he hated everything so much that he could only lash out. even when he won at the end he was confused and frightened by the things he was destined to say. so you get this chilled out smith years later, and it makes sense that he entered a conversation trying to reason with neo but ran out of patience and went apeshit almost immediately. he still hates neo intensely, even if he's also starting to like him
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Dec 28, 2021 10:00
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Xenomrph posted:The movie doesn’t do a great job of clarifying that he’s a simulacrum of Morpheus and not meant to be THE Morpheus that Neo knew. why is this thread full of people who "watch movies" by ignoring them
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Dec 28, 2021 10:02
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i think if you fail to noticed dialogue that happens in the immediate start of the movie, that's not because it's "unengaging"
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Dec 28, 2021 10:14
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"i didn't understand anything in this movie that i didn't pay any attention to, and me not understanding it justifies not paying attention" its funny how this movie moves Simulacra and Simulation from background directly into dialogue by having the analyst tap on neo's head and say like "the only world that matters is the one inside your head", then people spend their time making criticisms and assumptions that are directly contradicted by the film itself, which they don't know, because they weren't looking. people aren't really talking about the film, they're talking about the film they assume they saw. which means that they aren't a pure audiance, but the people lana wachowski is explicitly drawing attention to and mocking. people are paying whatever it costs to go to a cinema these days and unwittingly becoming the subject matter HorseLord fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 11:23
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also i watched it on my laptop and the audio was clear the whole way through so it's on your cinema's end
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Dec 28, 2021 11:23
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Mega Comrade posted:That's some fine rear end goon.txt there what was it we used to say? turn your monitor on? This is just Baudrillard, which is a thing the matrix has been using for 20 years. Jay-V posted:Like many I thought the first half showed potential and the second just failed to deliver. Maybe the first half of the film makes that point and the second half proves it by serving as an example. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 14:01
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:“Tell-don’t-show” is extremely bad storytelling that audiences will automatically tune out, every time. these two sentences are contradictory your complaint is disproved just by the fact that you're the only person who managed to misunderstand that scene. everyone else got it loud and clear. its really just you HorseLord fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 14:45
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ImpAtom posted:I must admit I did not expect the argument of "how dare you ask me to remember things" its honestly amazing that we're here Ichabod Tane posted:SMG isn't ridiculous for suggesting that people shouldn't have to have encyclopedic knowledge of the Matrix lore in order to understand the fourth movie, 23 years after the previous film in the series. he is however ridiculous for saying he didn't understand the first 5 mintues of the movie it because it had exposition in it, and also that it didn't have enough exposition for him to make sense of the visuals HorseLord fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 18:37
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man nurse posted:I’m having a hard time swallowing the “actually the movie is good because it’s intentionally bad” takes, though! nobody has said anything like that what has happened is a few people have said things that amount to "this movie is bad because when i didn't pay attention i didn't understand anything" and other people have said "that's dumb of you"
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Dec 28, 2021 18:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Challenge: without consulting a wiki, and using only information in Matrix 4, briefly summarize the backstory of Matrix 4. this is really easy because the movie explained all of it, which you said is bad, even though you also said its bad because it doesn't there was a man called neo who was important in a war against machines who enslaved humanity in a simulated reality. one of his friends was a man called morpheus who first freed him from the matrix and then became the leader of the underground city of free humans, which was called zion. neo's enemy was a program called agent smith and neo's wife was a woman called trinity. neo and trinity died fighting to form a truce between the humans and the machines. they succeeded and the free humans entered a new time of prosperity. the consequences of ending the war lead to an energy crisis in the machine society which caused them to have a civil war. eventually a faction containing the movie's villain took over and they solved the energy crisis with a more manipulative version of the matrix which also kept a ressurected neo and trinity in a state where they could be studied without them becoming a threat to the machines again. one of the ways they did this was to convince neo that he was insane and that his life was actually the plot of a videogame series he made 20 years ago, complete with giving him matrix developer tools on his office computer to prove it. his bored lunch break experiment mixing and matching characteristics of the story drew the attention of the resistance and the movie starts. i remember all of this because it was in the movie and i watched the movie. i hope this helps you supermechagodzilla
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Dec 28, 2021 18:55
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Boxman posted:Interestingly, setting aside the emotional stakes, I'm not sure the actual plot relies too much on having an encyclopedic knowledge of what happened before. The movie really doesn't have much faith in its audience to remember even the most obvious cues from the original trilogy - cutting to Weaving when Groff shouts "Mr. Anderson" is some real hand-holding, beat-you-over-the-head storytelling. It's why I'm so amazed that people are coming up with every imaginable excuse for not noticing it. It really can't be anything other than a refusal to pay attention when it's like the movie equivalent of those phones with extra large number buttons for old people.
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Dec 28, 2021 19:03
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VagueRant posted:During the early montage (and probable high point of the movie) there was one cut/edit of The Important Coffee Shop Woman doing the fingergun and click that I really liked and I'm trying to remember why, a week after seeing the movie. For anyone in a country with HBO Max, can you tell me more of the context? that was Sati, the program who's dad made the tanks neo and trinity were in. she spent years keeping an eye on neo in a low key way and helps them rescue trinity later on
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Dec 28, 2021 19:25
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's not an accurate summary of the backstory, and also glosses over important details like why Trinity is even there. You asked for a summary of the backstory using only things that can be seen in matrix 4. I gave you exactly what you asked for. Now we've established that all the times you said you couldn't pay attention or understand this movie you were lying, what is it you're actually trying to achieve here? Is it just being annoying?
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Dec 28, 2021 20:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The argument is that Matrix 4 doesn't provide sufficient information to understand its plot. This has been demonstrated by how, using only information provided in Matrix 4, you got the overall plot wrong. By giving me what I'd asked for, you have 'proven my point'. No, I didn't get the overall plot wrong. You made a big show of "correcting" me but all you really did was elaborate on details that I kept brief. This is the last time that I will reply to you because you are dishonest.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:40
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Nah, the last time.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:48
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Gatts posted:I am happy with this, that they want to involve her. Through I hope if they make another that we go in a completely different direction with a new cast. Let Neo and Trinity have their happy ending. good god no, I mean where could it even end up? Its either going to be a retread of a guy getting redpilled and flushed into the sewers to become hackerman, or a pointless origin story for switch and apoc.
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Dec 28, 2021 22:58
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I liked this one because it was a directors commentary on 20 years of people talking about the first 3 films and also what it's like to work in the hollywood system. I'm not sure that there's anything to make a Matrix 5 about. There are lots of things people wanted to see in resurrections that they're mad they didn't, but it represents those people as the fat annoying goon that does a bullet time impression and makes neo want to die. I know what would make a shitload of money. A sequel that does a ghostbusters afterlife style nostalgic deification of steven spielberg's original 1999 the matrix. You can have an annoying kid pull a dust sheet off the Nebuchadnezzar and hold up a head jack to the camera like it's a chunk of the true cross. people will eat it up. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Dec 28, 2021 |
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Dec 28, 2021 23:20
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why say that neo wasn't brought back to life to be studied even though the analyst said that's why he was and that it was really expensive and was difficult to convince his bosses that it could have a worthwhile result
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Dec 29, 2021 00:51
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I think it's more than that she didn't give a gently caress if people liked it. She put people who enthusastically liked the first three for shallow reasons in as antagonists.
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Dec 29, 2021 00:58
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precision posted:Haha I'm not sure you thought this through. I don't think you should be using limpwristed as a negative term anymore but definitely not in the same sentence as LGBTQ Rights you've got an 06 regdate, don't pretend you weren't dropping human being and retard every third post until the collective realized circa 2013 that they could pretend to be upstanding citizens without having to let go of their sociopathic internet cruelty if they switched from attacking people with bigoted language to attacking people for bigoted language. the hypocrisy doesn't work so well in a thread who's subject matter is meant to encourage introspection (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 29, 2021 22:19
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Colonel Whitey posted:My one big knock on the movie is that it lacked any kind of distinctive visual flair or language. Other than that I think I liked it and can’t wait to see it again on HBO Max, a Warner Brothers product I wonder if Lana has seen infinity train.
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Dec 29, 2021 22:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Trinity hates fake friends and now she hates fake family. Logical progression. You can understand it by understanding that bots are humans hijacked by simple programs, in the same way that agents are humans hijacked by complex programs. people have tried to dispute this because they bleed green matrix symbols (which they only do when they fall out of the windows, and don't do when they're shot, blugeoned or stabbed) but after rewatching the trilogy that was never a constistant indicator of what someone really was.
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Dec 31, 2021 10:23
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Halloween Jack posted:I haven't done the reading to keep up with the conversation, so this is just a random observation: Neo gets his noodles from the kitchen at the noodle place. The noodle chef gets them from a Sysco truck. Sysco gets them from a food factory, which gets ingredients from the farms. At what point does the supply chain vanish, and the Machines are just manifesting goods in the Matrix? Given that the Matrix seems to be made up of discrete, vague locations like "The City" and "The Mountains," I imagine that they're not simulating wheat fields and rice paddies. At the peak of our civilization, all that obscene labour is carefully hidden. It's easiest to assume that the Matrix is a simulation of the entire world.
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Jan 7, 2022 01:24
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s not though, we know it’s not. No we don't. quote:The city they live in is “the city” and has like, the Himalayan mountains within 500 miles and at least one European castle. I live next to a city in real life, Nijmegen. It is normal for people to refer to "the city" in conversations, because we have the shared context that "the city" is Nijmegen. It doesn't mean that only one city exists. Like how if you have children, and you tell a creepy man to "get away from 'my son'". It doesn't mean you only have one son, it means that the creepy man should get away from the specific son he's creepying at. I don't understand why you would reach for this unusual interpretation of normal English speech and use it to theory craft that only one city exists, especially when the very first time we see Neo we learn that Morpheus is an internationally wanted criminal who has been identified in heathrow airport. Which is in London, which is not the city that the movie takes place in, and is also in a different country. And also that later everyone goes to Japan, a third country. On a bullet train, which is a special kind of train that goes between major cities. Routes which go through rural areas, which is where people farm things. Understanding movies is much easier if you just pay attention to what goes on in them. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 03:56
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I remember now that they had to make an origin story movie for those data tapes darth vader was mad about at the beginning of the first star wars movie. At first, I thought that it was a shameless cash grab. Now I realize that, for a significant part of the audience, "someone stole them and gave them to her" was too hard to figure out.
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Jan 7, 2022 04:15
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precision posted:yeah i don't remember where but i'm like 99.9999999999% sure that it's canon that "the city" was the only city in the matrix, that the simulation was simplified down to like repo man levels where the beer just says "BEER" etc etc Brands aren't generic in the matrix. Neo uses a samsung syncmaster computer monitor and panasonic headphones and gets a Nokia phone delivered to him by FedEx. Trinity rides a Triumph. Morpheus has a Radiola TV in his construct program. That they don't have a city name appear on screen isn't proof that there's only one city. That only proves that the film makers chose to obscure what city it's meant to be, for their own convenience. The city that we see in the Matrix is American, but a large part of it was filmed in Sidney, Australia. You're also ignoring the fact Morpheus was in London, which has already been brought up. People in the matrix know that cities are named things like "London" and that there is more than one of them, and there are people there. The whole idea collapses here. I really don't understand why people make such unnecessary and complicated theories based on half remembrances, misremembrances, and trying to scrape elaborate meanings out of nonspecific street signage that's on screen for 2 frames. The trucks the camera goes under in the freeway chase have placeholder graphics where the chassis should be. Does that imply something about how cars work in the matrix? No! it means the movie is nearly 20 years old and the CGI is sometimes very poo poo! Or maybe now we can extend this "understanding" of these movies to other media. Every newspaper prop in every episode of every tv show is identical going back decades, unless it is specifically relevant to the plot. This must mean that Every epsiode of every tv show that doesn't use a newspaper article as a plot element must all secretly be in a shared canon and all take place on the same day. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 15:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The city just being a single city named "megacity" with a tokyo district is canon in the games which is offically canon. The MMO isn't canon. It's story contradicts and is ignored by all other matrix media including Ressurections. Even treating it as canon, you are interpreting technical and budgetry limitations of a niche videogame with the authorial intent of a completely different group of people, years earlier. Owlofcreamcheese posted:But even in the movie the merovingian lives in a rural castle and the Himalayan mountains are explicitly defined as 500 miles away. The Merovinigan lives in a rural castle in an unknown mountain range, which are explicitly defined as 500 miles away from the unknown american city where the story takes place. The Himalayans aren't mentioned. It's just "the mountains". Owlofcreamcheese posted:It's clearly not supposed to be a 1:1 recreation of real earth.I bet you can go to american city, tokyo, the part of paris around the eiffel tower, the pyramids and probably the moon. The places a videogame level would capture.[/b] That is never implied in the movie. It's just where the Merv built his rural retreat.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:40
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Halloween Jack posted:You're going back and forth and saying that we should make a very strict reading of some things onscreen but not others. I'm not going back and forth at all. I'm pointing out that some things are having meaning attributed to them where there is none. There's this big fuss made of street signs or branding not saying the specific name of the city on it. I'm telling you that this doesn't mean anything because it isn't nessecary for those things to explicity call out the name of whatever the city they're in is called. Again, I live in Nijmegen. You don't see the name plastered everywhere. It's not on busses, it's not on trains or police cars, or street signs. The University is not "Nijmegen University", it's Radboud Univeristy. The hospital isn't called Nijmegen hospital either. When I look at a street sign it will just say something like "Centrum, 2km" on it. I'm not actually sure where I would see the city name. I have never once taken this to mean Nijmegen doesn't have a name or that it's the only city that exists. The matrix is not filmed in Chicago. It was filmed in Sidney Australia, San Fransisco and Nashville. So there are no Chicago specific signs because Chicago isn't in the movie. The job of the production company is to make all three locations look like one location, which they successfully did. That they didn't make it look like one specific city you could name doesn't mean that no other city exists. It means that which city it is doesn't matter. The movie is being nonspecific on that detail. If they'd chosen to call it "chicago", "new york" or whatever, all that would've been gained is that nerds would go "but that's such and such a building! they don't have such and such a building in Chicago!" or "New York subway stations don't have green wooden ticket booths" or something. It has no utility to the story being told. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 17:02
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s an American mountain range that is in America right next to Chicago, that seems like both where a rich European lives in a very alps like villa that also has a bunch of Tibetan spiritualism stuff like it’s the Himalayan mountains. I've never said that the city in the matrix corrisponds to Chigago. I said "unknown american city". There are mountains within 500 miles of some American cities, and rich people can decorate however they want, because they are rich.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:07
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Agent Smith: Have you ever stood and stared at it, marveled at its beauty, its genius? Billions of people just living out their lives, oblivious. Owlofcreamcheese: they must all live in the same city. a random guy's house is the edge of the world boundry. heathrow airport must be ignored
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Jan 7, 2022 17:11
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