Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

The problem with the matrix sequels is that the plot drifted away from man vs machine and instead got derailed by agent smith has gone rogue and is gonna take over the matrix! I kinda hate that they even brought him back in the sequels.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2021 08:00

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 09:28

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

GonSmithe posted:

Lawrence Fishburne's Morpheus canonically died in an alley shooting in a video game, sorry.

Yea unlike Disney, we HONOR THE CANON here

# ¿ Sep 9, 2021 21:03

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

porfiria posted:

The first Matrix (1999) was a culmination of pre-9/11 engagement with themes of anomie, frustration, and self-actualization. It is the ultimate Gen X movie.

However, we have seen in the intervening decades how that selfsame ideology of individualism and self-expression is actually a comfortable fit for late stage capitalist consumerism, and offers little defense against the barbarism of the 21st century. Witness how easily the imagery of "The Red Pill" is adopted by deranged Internet misogynists and reactionaries, for example. It's not enough to say that they are simply misreading the film or acting in bad faith. In fact, they have correctly identified the evils of hyper-capitalist exploitation; their solution, however, inserted into the ideological gap of The Matrix, is to return to old systems of master-slave domination (with themselves as masters, of course).

The challenge of The Matrix IV (2021), then, is surely to fill in the gap left by the first movie: Neo is a failed messiah whose agenda of "raising consciousness" or "bringing attention to the issues [of the Matrix]" has been utterly discredited. What is the third choice, beyond the false binary of blue and red pills?

Star Wars already did the �failed messiah� thing with Luke Skywalker. We don�t need that kind of deconstruction again.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2021 18:45

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Gresh posted:

Its pretty amazing where we are today compared to 20 years ago. The first movie came out during the end of the hyper corporate computer/.com boom era where things were more or less stable... people had money and 401ks even if they didn't like their jobs.

Now, everyone is broke as poo poo living in a late stage neoliberal Zion-like hellscape largely controlled by space traveling oligarchs and such while willingly posting on the Matrix.

That�s the joke

# ¿ Sep 12, 2021 10:07

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

I don�t care how good or bad the movie as long as a character makes reference to the matrix online and tells neo that Morpheus died in a back alley shooting in 2005

I want the Wackowskis and WB to flex on the Lucasfilm Story Group

# ¿ Sep 12, 2021 20:42

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Zesty posted:

�The important thing about making a sequel in a major movie franchise is preserving the canon set by a C-Tier MMO from 2005.�

Gamers.

It�s not gamers. The Wackowskis are the ones who laid down the canon rules back in the early 00s. They said everything is canon and seem to be honoring that so far

I hope the movie does a flashback to show multiple viewpoints of how Morpheus died in a back alley shootout like how last Jedi showed the fall of Luke�s Jedi academy

# ¿ Sep 14, 2021 23:42

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Cartoon Man posted:

Don�t think too hard about any of this, people just need to accept it as a plot point and enjoy the action movie. Nerds that obsess over these things wreck every franchise ever.

Morpheus is not an educated person. He�s a low level grunt in the Zion army he�s literally articulating what he put together from others explaining to him.

It�s the equivalent of a McDonald�s cashier explaining to someone from
The 1800s how iPhones are manufactured.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2021 23:48

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

teagone posted:

What a weirdly specific comparison that makes zero sense given how well respected and highly regarded Morpheus is throughout Zion as both a leader and prophet.

Uhh did you watch the sequels? He doesn�t have authority and they all think he�s crazy

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 01:58

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

stev posted:

Right but like, does the simulation know who has virtually gotten together with who? Is some poor AI keeping track of every couple and every one night stand and making sure to simulate pregnancy and grow a human from their DNA at the appropriate time?

This poo poo kept me up at night in the 2000s.

I think there�s an algorithm that assigns a new grown baby to two people that mated in the matrix

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 02:01

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

checkplease posted:

Morpheus is the captain of a ship, not a grunt. He speaks to council members directly.

And most importantly, he is the keynote speaker before the annual zion orgy. Everyone was enraptured by his motivational speech.

The first movie makes it seem like he�s the leader of the human resistance especially the way his crew talks about him. In the sequel none of the council believes his nonsense about �the one� and most of the poo poo he said in the first film. He has no authority with the council or Zion leadership.at best he� like an Andrew yang,

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

In the sequels, they repeatedly reboot the matrix with just 23 people.

Earth population in 1999 was, of course, much higher.

Bots my dude

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 04:08

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

checkplease posted:

Morpheus is like the matrix pope. Or a matrix cardinal. In zion he is the one preaching the religion of neo and many are listening to it. So while not on the council, he has a lot of influence.

Morpheus is Zions Bernie sanders. He has followers and plays a role in government but has little real power. Then again he uses the red pill analogy so maybe he is more like Zions Donald Trump.

Either way he�s no Sheev Palpatine that�s for sure

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 18:19

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

What�s a good place where I can share my Boba Fett/Matrix crossover fanfic I wrote in high school?

# ¿ Sep 15, 2021 21:20

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

jivjov posted:

This seems to be a point of discrepancy between the first film and later stuff--in the first move, Neo's got news articles about the terrorist Morpheus attacking places like Heathrow airport, and Morpheus's dialog implies that "earth; circa 1999" is the setting of the matrix. Later material seems to take a more Dark City approach and Mega City and its immediate surroundings is everything and other places may or may not actually exist.

It�s a mute point now. The trailer for the fourth film clearly shows San Francisco. The first movies city while unnamed seems like it was either in LA or NYC. It�s been awhile since I watched the first movie though but it�s clearly a different city from the first 3.

Edit: wow I was way off, the city is supposed to be Chicago though it�s fictionalized and includes landmarks from Sydney Australia because big chunks were filmed there

Noob Saibot fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Sep 18, 2021

# ¿ Sep 18, 2021 21:33

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Were all the previous �the ones� Keanu reeves or different people?

I remember when reloaded came out there were rumors Merovingian was a previous incarnation of the one

# ¿ Sep 24, 2021 05:07

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

MLSM posted:

Neo always came across as someone � like millions of others � deeply alienated from a consumerist society to me rather than suffering from gender dysphoria?

Your analysis is correct. People are reading way too much into this stuff and there�s a ton of revisionist history going on. Yes there are some elements of the trans experience in The Matrix (Switch, the red pill, living two lives,etc) but at the end of the day it�s a film about questioning authority, systems of control, nonconformity, rebellion, and individualism.

There�s also those same cautionary tale elements from The Terminator and Jurassic Park about humans playing God, the dangers of AI, the advancements of robotics, humans are own worst enemies, etc.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2021 05:11

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Shiroc posted:

Every single trans person, once they are aware they are trans, has tons of moments of looking back on their life and going 'lol that was so stupid that I didn't realize it yet.' Yes, other people experience alienation. The particulars of the alienation and how the most constant 'I am the bad guy' villainous thing that Smith does is deadname Neo to deny his self indentification is trans as gently caress.

Person who is not (knowingly?) trans: I don't see any gender dysphoria here! It is the trans people who are wrong.

drat I guess Alex Haileys Roots was also about trans people all along!

# ¿ Sep 24, 2021 21:22

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

This thread is a bunch of gen z�ers who were born after the matrix trilogy that want to tell gen x and millianials what the matrix is �really all about�.

I like the one dude above me who got his whole argument shut down because he never heard of bound and is now using google and Wikipedia to try to justify his stance. Lol nice try

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Sep 25, 2021 01:36

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

What were the other agents name? I think the second in command was Johnson?

# ¿ Sep 27, 2021 02:49

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Mister Speaker posted:

Jones and Brown, although I don't think they're ever named in the film.

EDIT: Johnson is the square-jawed smirking one that punches the door open in the beginning of Reloaded. Played by martial artist stuntman Daniel Bernhardt, who's in everything these days (including maybe the best episode of BARRY). Apparently he's coming back for Resurrections, too.

Yea that�s what I thought. I think you can even see him in the trailer

# ¿ Sep 27, 2021 03:11

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

The sequels are generally a huge narrative departure from Matrix 1, which is why it's difficult to talk about the series as a whole. Matrix 1 famously ended with Neo promising to show humanity "a world without you [the dark machine-god]", and then he just... doesn't.

In an earlier draft of Matrix 2, Neo's mission is to blow up a skyscraper, and he ends up killing thousands of people in the attempt. The 'burly brawl' was originally to end with Neo crawling out of a pile of civilian corpses, soaked in blood, realizing that Morpheus's plan to destroy the matrix will result in the deaths of billions. From the script:

"A few more smashed Smiths fall, morph back into their stolen forms, and Neo is knee-deep in the dead. He can�t take it. Choking, Neo struggles to free himself. Smiths climb up the corpse pile and drop onto him, pounding viciously. Neo stalls, in shock, his eyes locked with the lifeless blue eyes of a woman he just killed. She looks amazingly like Trinity. Perhaps for the first time, he is confronted with the consequences of this war, and his mind seizes as the Smiths pummel him."

"It�s a sea of the dead. From its center, Neo emerges, soaked in blood, gagging and gasping for breath. He stumbles over them. Shocked and
crazed, he glimpses the Metacortex building. It�s in one piece again, unharmed."

Shortly later:

Neo: if I destroy the Matrix, everyone within it will die.
Smith: I take it the great Morpheus failed to mention this?
Neo: How many people are in it?
Smith: Six and a half billion.

You can see how, immediately post-9/11, they went into full reverse. The 'burly brawl' is bloodless fun, with nobody ending up dead, while Morpheus' plan of resetting the planet by killing all but a few people is displaced onto The Architect (who, in turn, is revealed to be well-intentioned but impotent - 'not such a bad guy').

Sucks that 9/11 ruined the plot of the matrix sequels

Aaliyah was gonna be in it too

# ¿ Sep 27, 2021 23:41

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Necrothatcher posted:

The Matrix sequels were shot between March 2001 and August 2002 so it's unlikely they changed the story to any huge degree because of 9/11.

Wasn�t there a pretty big pause in production when Aaliyah died?

# ¿ Sep 28, 2021 18:29

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Szmitten posted:

They shot a lot of Aaliyah as Zee including the Revolutions ending, so they not only had to recast but entirely reshoot in Aaliyah's case. Matrix sequels are cursed productions between the deaths of actresses, 9/11, the death of Keanu's ex, and now Covid with 4.

Yea that�s what I thought

Also for some Reason I thought she was going to play the character that jade Pickett smith ended up playing but I guess she was someone else

EDIT: also found this: https://www.change.org/p/warnerbros-aaliyah-matrix-reloaded-footage

#Release the Aaliyah Cut!

Noob Saibot fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Sep 30, 2021

# ¿ Sep 30, 2021 08:19

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Guys the matrix is not permanently set in 1999. That�s just the year in the matrix when the film took place lmao.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 18:39

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Owlofcreamcheese posted:

Current zion has a history that is 100 years long but the current matrix was designed to simulate the turn of the century height of human civilization so I think there is meant to be some sort of simpsons sliding timeline somewhere. It might not always be 1999 but it's never going to be 2000 next year.

Plus we know for sure time isn't real in the matrix, and doesn't necessarily progress the same for everyone, neo's whole most famous thing is him being able to move so he sees thing as moving very slowly while other people see him as moving very fast.

They destroy Zion every 100 years but the time in the matrix continues onward. In the trailer there�s clearly smart phones, tablets and neo has aged accordingly. It�s 2020 in the matrix.

Just like with a lot of things in the matrix I think agent smith and the architects monologues have been misinterpreted or taken too literally.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 20:47

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Neo Rasa posted:

That's what I thought that's why the last post or so confused me so much lol

At a minimum the Matrix probably covers the full 20th and 21st centuries or at least up until humans started abusing robots

# ¿ Oct 4, 2021 23:36

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

porfiria posted:

In the real world Neo is a pathetic, powerless schlub, in the Matrix he's a Kung Fu God. In the real world, Cypher has to eat slop, in the Matrix he can eat steak. In the real world, Switch is forced into a body she doesn't identify with, etc...

The Matrix isn't a prison...it's a machine for liberation from the evil idiot demiurge who created the physical world.

It�s like a video game

# ¿ Oct 5, 2021 20:52

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

I know that over the past month since the revival of The Matrix we have had a lot of heated and passionate debates but can we all agree that Matrix was the best (and only good) attempt at making a live action anime?

# ¿ Oct 9, 2021 22:10

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

codo27 posted:

The Matrix is a Good Movie. Anime is a Bad Anything.

When they weren�t shamelessly stealing from Grant Morrison the Wackoskis were known to be anime enthusiasts.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jun-01-ca-solomon1-story.html?_amp=true

# ¿ Oct 10, 2021 05:03

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Why are the machines causing a labor shortage in the matrix?

Boy I tell ya what in the 90s during the peak of human civilization you better believe everyone got their rear end to work. Even underground hackers had day jobs at the office.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2021 18:54

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

I heard this is the �The Last Jedi� of Matrix films

# ¿ Dec 21, 2021 19:27

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

poonchasta posted:

I loving love The Last Jedi. 13 more hours, my friends.

It�s the best of the sequel trilogy. I don�t care if the new matrix subverts expectations I just want it to be weird and interesting

# ¿ Dec 21, 2021 21:24

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Finally had a chance to watch it. I thought the movie was too long and bloated (the Mets joke stuff at the beginning goes on too long) but I liked the story and loving loved the ending.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2021 11:54

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

teagone posted:

The whole movie can be read as a cheeky gently caress you tbh, lol. And I think that's great.

You do understand these movies are green lit by WB execs, scripts approved by WB execs, and privately screened for WB execs long before the first trailer is released right?

This isn�t some �haha these dumb WB people told me to go out and make a 150 million dollar matrix sequel and I�m secretly going to make it a parody of Hollywood�

At the end of the day WB has total creative control and they signed off on this and backed Wackowski.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2021 21:44

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Why is smith back? What possible reason could there be?

He was just an agent program who neo killed and as a result turned into a virus that would have destroyed the matrix if neo didn�t team up with the machines to wipe out. Why is he back in this new version of the matrix? That�s the one thing I really didn�t like (even worse that we�re supposed to pretend that actor is Hugo weaving)

He shouldn�t have even been in 2 and 3 much less this one!

# ¿ Dec 31, 2021 01:54

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Some anime guy on Twitter is hinting at Animatrix 2. Presumably on HBO MAX

https://twitter.com/lefrenchaccent/status/1476730400106065946?s=21

# ¿ Dec 31, 2021 19:35

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

I need constant new matrix content on HBO+ and a new matrix spin-off film every year

# ¿ Jan 1, 2022 06:07

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

unlimited shrimp posted:

Speaking of, does this tie in to the MMO story like was theorized?

Yes unlike George �Indian giver� Lucas, the Wackowskis respect their universe�s shared canon

# ¿ Jan 1, 2022 22:28

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 09:28

Noob Saibot: Jan 29, 2020; by Fluffdaddy

Abalone Malone posted:

was the movie any good?

It gives neo�s saga a much better conclusion than loving matrix revelations so it was worth it for that if nothing else

# ¿ Mar 30, 2022 20:06

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Matrix Thread: actually it has very good politics and is good because the action sux