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I took a 1 credit college class about the matrix. at a real college.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:02
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I was the exact age that I took an actual real life college class on the matrix when I was in college
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Sep 25, 2021 01:51
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I feel like later revelations that the whole zion resistance thing is just manufactured role play concocted by the powers that be to distract malcontents makes any specific reading of morpheus pill scene really nasty in retrospect. Like a lot of things in the matrix you basically have to ignore later movies to not have it turn into a really rancid message.
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Sep 27, 2021 17:22
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I feel like smith is another example where there is seeds of a strong theme that kinda just wilts and falls flat. He's the agent of the system, (and a computer AI "agent") he represents the system, but he's nonconformist, he hates his job and wants out, especially after neo breaks him. He then becomes ultimate conformity, a world where everyone is him, and that feels like ground to write a point on, but that kinda just happens as a sci-fi thing that happens, he never really displays a want for a world made in his image, he just kinda does that because it's his evil bad guy power to further his plan to get rid of humans, there is never really any clear "nonconformity can become conformity if forced on others" message, he never seems to WANT a world of just him, he's just doing it because it's a computer virus thing to do and they wanted computer words to happen.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:25
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porfiria posted:I think the idea is that Smith is entirely nihilistic and suicidal, and he wants to prove Neo's belief in his own existential freedom to choose/act is dumb and doomed by the iron laws of nature. Yeah, I mean, it’s just that it laps at some coherent themes but just never gets to it. In a movie with themes of conformity and nonconformity it’s funny the main antagonist has the power to make everyone just like him but that just really never intersects. He seems to be able to replicate more because that is a techno thing for a virus to do than some idea that the ultimate end of a system of control is direct totalitarian control of the individual. The system didn’t even like smith, smith didn’t even want that power.
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Sep 27, 2021 20:56
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
No one is homeless, everyone is just a guy in a pod. Everyone is collectively dreaming some guy is homeless. Is that the same? The movie doesn't say much past that about that question and leaves it pretty simple but makes sure to soak every single frame background in references to gnosticism, simulacra and ideas about maya in case you want to think more about the question.
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Sep 28, 2021 13:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It absolutely is the same. The guy inside the simulation experiences real suffering, because of the socioeconomic conditions in the world he inhabits. Other humans inside the simulation have denied him housing, along with food and all that other stuff. I mean, the movie is a 90 minute action movie so there is limits to the scope of what it's going to cover, but it's also a movie that literally puts books on screen you could go and read if you were more interested in thinking about the questions more deeply.
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Sep 28, 2021 23:59
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checkplease posted:I think besides the power plant raid in reloaded, most of the fights now involve neo and co. vs programs. I wonder if this is partly done as a way to get around the moral problem of neo killing a lot sleeping humans, even if police. That seems more like videogame style enemy scaling.
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Sep 29, 2021 12:47
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what even are the demographics of zion? It's current iteration is 100 years old (exactly?) and each cycle starts with 23 survivors. Is it mostly people just born in zion or is it a large population of people morpheus tediously releases one at a time from the matrix? In the movie it seems like a majority of people are ex matrix and natives are somewhat novel, and the point of zion is a fake base for resistance freedom fighters to waste their energy on, but it seems like just having kids would fill up the place way faster than the very very slow and personalized red pill stuff. It seems like natives would dominate the population pretty quickly.
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Sep 30, 2021 20:34
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stratdax posted:In the third movie Morpheus says they've freed more people in the last 6 months than they have in the last 6 years. Honestly I think I'm very unclear on the matrix time line. They explicitly say the resistance and zion have been going for 100 years, so they are in 2199, but later it turns out that it's not the first zion so it seems the real year must be something like 2999. But everything about zion and the 1990s matrix setting really seem like maybe the resistance is really only a few years old and it's long history is just another machine lie to make malcontents feel like they are part of something, like with the point of zion being a fun cosplay to distract the malcontents it seems like it wouldn't be that except in the end years where it's built up enough to be a seemingly legitimate resistance. It's hard to imagine 30 zion agents freeing some 1910 malcontent cowboy or something.
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Oct 1, 2021 01:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
The plot of the matrix movie doesn't stop to go very far into it, but the movie really doesn't leave it unaddressed, the name dropping of philosophers and religious stuff gets very close to levar burton coming on screen and saying "if you would like to read more about this idea please check your local library". Why must the homeless man suffer in the matrix? Because the creator is an imperfect demiurge and here is a bunch of gnostic words on screen for you to look up? why must the homeless man suffer in the matrix? Because the world is false and he forms his own idea of what his life is and is trapped in that belief here is a bunch of characters with buddhist names for you to look up . Why must the homeless man suffer in the matrix? Because the matrix reboots regularly and he may be reborn, here, let the sound track literally sing verses from hindi texts. Like they aren't really ignoring those sort of questions, even if they don't answer them on screen, they strongly signpost "maybe you could think more about this question, here is what some of the most major forces in history have said about it" without the movie pretending an action movie is going to settle the question of evil across all religions finally in a definitive way.
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Oct 1, 2021 15:00
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It seems like second renaissance makes the robot's goal clear: coexistence. First the robots live as dumb dumb silly robot slaves and are fine with that until humans kill b1gg3r, then the robot lawyers at the trial say robots should get to live, so humans declare all robots should be killed, so the robots totally nonviolently protest so they are holding signs and standing passively still while being literally swept into mass graves and run over by tanks, so the robots go live in the desert and make earth a paradise by exporting wonders to humans, then they ask for a treaty to be allowed to exist and humans drop a nuclear bomb on them. So the robots (who were not really harmed by radiation) go and with minor violence take over every city on earth and tell humans 'quit it", so humans destroy the entire world with smoke bombs. The robots finally actually go to war, and easily win, then put all the humans in pods and give them paradise, which they also fight and require the robots make them a world exactly like 1999 (which they also fight, but for a while in a way the robots give them a fun game to play if they want to fight). the robots are better than people, at any point the literal only thing they want is humans to leave them alone while they give the humans nice things, they never ever have a plan to exterminate them or control them, their response is always 'hey, just back off", they don't need the matrix, but it's the final place to put humans to stop them from freaking out nonstop trying to wipe out the comically peaceful robots. The robots drawing power from them at all seems more like a robot art project, they could have done fusion but they intentionally make a symbiotic relationship with the humans, they have wanted that from the start. They made a system that was worse than the ideal because their goal was always just to hang out with their friends the humans while humans kept punching them no matter what they did.
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Oct 2, 2021 17:19
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Ferrinus posted:This is how we justify our own prisons, too. Gosh, we just want to help these people but they keep being so violent, for no reason at all! Well, there's only one way to keep everyone safe... Eh, the idea that it's a basic evil robot plot and the evidence to the contrary is just robot propaganda is way less interesting than what is shown on screen. The machines are the oppressed, not the oppressor, even though at every point they could easily have killed everyone. The robots are our moral and spiritual betters as much as our physical and mental betters, they will not allow us to genocide them and will stop that with violence but at every single step they love their creators and do what they can to make things as good as possible for us. Over and over robots tried to give us paradise while they did their own thing and over and over humans rejected it and went back to killing. Even the design of the matrix was supposed to be heaven, but people just continued to suck too much to take that so they got to all live in Vancouver instead (which humans eventually started fighting back against trying to genocide the robots, so the machines set up a fake playpen humans could do that too since they apparently can't ever ever stop doing that).
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Oct 2, 2021 20:02
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Humans still threaten the machines, they do kill b1gg3r, Holocaust the domestic robots, nuke 0/1, destroy the sunlight to stop their solar plant. Robots keep trying to live in harmony and humans keep murdering robots. There is no place to put humans apparently they don’t keep killing robots. You can’t even put them in paradise, you have to put them in a simulated world that doesn’t have robots and then account fo4 all the morphiuses that need to kill robots so bad they will wake out of the matrix to try and genocide robots.
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Oct 2, 2021 20:29
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Ferrinus posted:Humans threatened the machines, past tense. By the time the movies have begun the war is long over and humans are totally at the machines' mercy. The sum total of Zion's military might is sufficient to delay the machine armies for like, a few hours, and in fact all that military might was donated to the humans by the machines as part of a trick to keep the majority of humans imprisoned. I mean, given the history I'm not sure what more robots can do to get humans to stop killing them, they offer everything repeatedly to get peace then in the end give humans what they want: to forget there even are robots. Even then in the matrix where you'd think they would finally be powerless the human neo still manages to annoy a machine until it's all bitter then jump into it's code and gently caress it up so it's earpiece breaks and it starts virally reproducing until it threatens all robots and machines AGAIN. There is basically nothing you can do with the humans that will stop them from killing all robots SOMEHOW and history is basically robots having to try harder and harder to put themselves farther and farther away from their insane awful creators that they love very much and just want to be happy and not genociding them.
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Oct 2, 2021 21:15
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Ferrinus posted:Right, this is just basic liberal ideology. Some people are inherently dangerous, inherently criminal. Some people will stop at nothing to kill us. Why? Don't even ask that question, it's just in their nature. That's why we need to crush them down so completely they don't even realize they're under our thumbs. Oh, and if any of them start to question their situation or attempt to build an identity for themselves that isn't the one we assigned them we terminate them with extreme prejudice. It's for their own good! I know it seems harsh, but we're dealing with monsters here, not people, monsters who understand nothing but force. They had their chance to conform and they blew it. Is your claim the robots should have let them kill bigger? Or make themselves die when they bombed 0/1? Or died when the humans destroyed their solar collectors? What was the right course of action for the robots? They literally went as far as possible out of their way to not hurt people. People were shoveling them in pits as they calmly held signs asking not to.
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Oct 2, 2021 22:00
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Ferrinus posted:I'm claiming that the matrix is a prison, maintained for the same reason all prisons are maintained. We maintain prisons because the prisoners destroyed the entire earth and everything on it and nuclear bombed us in our homes after officially ordering a genocide of our entire race twice? Then we try and make the prison perfect and without pain? (Until that fails and we need to make the prison exactly like a world we never existed at all)
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Oct 2, 2021 23:05
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RBA Starblade posted:He can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he's saying that based on what we were shown the humans as a whole didn't want any other choice, they didn't want to negotiate, they really wanted to crush the robots to dust forever no matter what Yeah all along the robots were extremely invested in being our friends, they were better than us in every single way but just wanted us to like them. At all stages it was shown they could crush us with one hand but at every stage they wanted to just get us to stop hurting them so they could do nice things for us.
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Oct 3, 2021 01:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
the actual reason is that the actor lady died from diabetes
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Oct 3, 2021 16:52
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Ferrinus posted:
What threat exactly did machines become to humans? You seem like a parody of the humans in the robot apocalypses. Declaring them evil as they go about doing exactly the compromise you demanded would make you stop killing them. (with the current compromise that you would get a safe space where you could kill them forever and ever in a never-ending war, after rejecting letting them live over and over)
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Oct 3, 2021 21:04
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Ferrinus posted:Well they became a massive army that defeated humans militarily and then imprisoned humans in a simulation. This really does sound like a speech from the bad humans in the matrix movie. Saying "these robots are a threat!" while the robots do absolutely nothing but get genocided. It's not even a "humans started it!" and then the robots fought back. At every stage the robots immediately stop fighting the second they are out of danger of extinction and go back to helping out.
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Oct 3, 2021 23:35
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Ferrinus posted:Ah, but that's not true. At the final stage, the robots do not stop fighting. In fact, the robots remain on the perpetual offensive, using every combination of force and trickery to keep as many humans imprisoned as possible. They in fact give humans what they want: a world with no robots, with an all you can shoot buffet for the humans that can’t bare a life without shooting robots
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Oct 4, 2021 02:19
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Ferrinus posted:If that were true, people wouldn't wake up on the reg. What people actually want is to not be imprisoned and exploited. The humans aren't really "imprisoned", the humans blew up the entire earth to the point the only place a human can live is in a small cave near the core of the earth because they wanted to kill the machines (who were not ever at any point really doing anything). It's not even like the robots locked humans up for being bad, they put humans away after humans ended all life on earth in a big weird tower they could all live in as the only place on earth that exists anymore. like I'm arguing a lot about some fictional story, but it seems actually scary someone could watch this movie and go with 'robots are the bad guys here", like I feel like they dumped enough slavery/holocaust/military autocracy visual stuff you were not supposed to see what the people were doing to the robots and think "yeah! robots are the oppressors here!".
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Oct 4, 2021 15:45
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Ferrinus posted:Yes, they are. This is just a lie. If you think they're being imprisoned for their own good due to their inherent savagery or that they deserve it because they've racked up an immense blood debt or whatever, that's your prerogative, but please be honest. Humans destroyed the sky and froze the earth right down to the core. Flesh is a relic, the machines will take their bodies and give them a new world. A perfect world* *perfect has now been revised from paradise down to "just like 1999 but more green. with optional robot war for people that need that to live and neo patches scheduled every ~100 years to upgrade the system." matrix isn't a punishment. It's all there is on earth right now. machines took the human's bodies so the machines could live and gave humans a new planet to gently caress around on, which they later once again had to revise to be robot free then later revise to support robot murdering for certain people who need that to live. If you are in prison there is an implication you could be somewhere else. Matrix is the only place there is, and robots didn't do that.
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Oct 4, 2021 17:56
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Like it's not a dog that needs to be put in a cage for revenge of hurting it's owner. It's not even a dog that needs to be in a cage to protect itself from hurting itself. It's a dog that is in a carrier because it burned the whole city down and needs to fed through a slot because there is no where left for it to go and the people with the food can't even get it to let them bring it food without it biting them to death, so they feed it through a slot and occasionally let it bite some people to death in a safe environment.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:17
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Noob Saibot posted:Guys the matrix is not permanently set in 1999. That’s just the year in the matrix when the film took place lmao. Current zion has a history that is 100 years long but the current matrix was designed to simulate the turn of the century height of human civilization so I think there is meant to be some sort of simpsons sliding timeline somewhere. It might not always be 1999 but it's never going to be 2000 next year. Plus we know for sure time isn't real in the matrix, and doesn't necessarily progress the same for everyone, neo's whole most famous thing is him being able to move so he sees thing as moving very slowly while other people see him as moving very fast.
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Oct 4, 2021 19:03
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Ferrinus posted:First, it's not a massive assumption at all. Again, Smith says it himself: "entire crops were lost". Humans are crops, not welfare recipients and not zoo animals. You don't grow crops for the sake of the crops, or because crops are fun to look at. The specific mechanism of exploitation is most likely the one spelled out explicitly in earlier versions of the Matrix script, but even if the Matrix is a cyber-safari (machines don't seem to like it there so I personally don't believe this, but I guess we can't rule it out) we know that humans are kept there A) against there will and B) to the advantage of the ruling order. If nothing else, the matrix must at least serve as a standing threat, makework project, and/or labor camp for lower-class machine intelligences, although I strongly doubt this because of the way both humans and machines talk about it and the lengths machines go not only to preserve it generally but to minimize the number humans who get out specifically. Agents aren't real. They are part of the whole larp of heroic zion vs scary machines that people apparently can not live without. He exists to fake up a spooky robot threat, he's just part of the show (until he's killed more than he was supposed to be and becomes broken) agents in general though, basically: 
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Oct 5, 2021 00:03
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Ferrinus posted:The simplest explanation of "entire crops were lost", which fits perfectly with "we are grown." Also, again, agents are not 100% genuine. Remember, the goal of that interrogation was to get the codes to the zion mainframe. This is not a real goal the machines really have. I don't think the agents are purely fiction purely playing roles, but they do have a thick layer of kayfabe. I think smith hates humans, he is speaking personally when he says that, but he is also literally play acting a fake meaningless interrogation solely to pretend the zion resistance is real. Giving them a show is part of it. he may walk off stage later and clap with his buddies "oh man, crop! that's a good one! the zion resistance is gonna love it! lets write that into the official script next neo! they are gonna so totally think they are a real resistance if we talk like that! oh man!"
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Oct 6, 2021 18:46
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Ferrinus posted:Of course it's a goal that the machines have. Even presuming that A) the machines are all in on the Architect's plot B) the machines are all in favor of it C) the machines all have the same goals D) the machines' plot actually involves putting on a show, we see in the third movie that the actual invasion of Zion is a protracted military battle with real-world stakes in terms of casualties and materiel. Squids aren't free and those chaingun mechs the humans pilot around aren't trivially defeated. Nipping Zion in the bud early, or at least dramatically penetrating and weakening its security, would mean that hitting the reset button goes more smoothly and costs the machines less. Again, this comes down to the fact that the machines aren't running the matrix for fun or for charity; they have real material needs that the matrix fulfills. The zion battle is very explicitly false and fake. It being a back and forth battle is just a thing they do to make neos think they need to take their keys and quest items and run to the source to blow up the machines, which he then does on cue, at which point the architect is there instead, explains everything and makes neo take his neo juice and make a patch for the matrix so they can reboot. which he normally does. the whole sequence of the squid flying around and fighting one on one with the mechs is just pretend. It's just to make neo think he's fighting and get him to the right place. You actually do see what a real non-pretend attack is, before they retreat, the squids simply stop pretending to be individual combatants that you fight hand to hand and just become a big fractal liquid that easily flows through walls and scours everything trivially. The whole literal count down with the drill, and the part they vaguely fly around and battle people is just a time waster while neo gets to the core, when he gets there and they get the signal to stop playing they switch to the part they actually have a kajillion sentals that all move like a cloud and roar in the same voice and would presumably simply sweep through and then rebuild a fresh zion like big nanobots in a minute or two.
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Oct 7, 2021 01:07
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Robot Style posted:
It was the terms of surrender. The humans stole the sun as a power source so the robot ambassador presents that humans could give their bodies in exchange for a new world. (he then signs the agreement himself and then literally explodes) Why would they make that the agreement? Well, it's the same thing robots wanted at every step. To not have a war with humans.
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Oct 8, 2021 00:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:If the machines are just recycling a bunch of centuries-old movies to create a more ‘authentic’ 1999 experience, someone must eventually notice that there is no film industry on Earth. I think the writing of the movies is very very muddled on the scope of matrix earth. I think 95% of the movies it's written as a flat simulation, indistinguishable from our earth. Maybe even implying the viewer is also in the matrix. But specific concepts or lines really imply it's a much more artificial environment. The city they live in is filmed on location in a bunch of famous cities, instead of a specific place, and mostly that can be written off as artistic licence. But in extended media it's specifically named "mega city" and even if that is non-canon (even if the creators call the games canon) it is still an american city that is somehow within 500 miles of a european castle and also the alps. Mostly it seems the main intent was it is just regular earth and the setting is anytown USA, Morpheus goes to england, the animatrix goes to japan, but random parts of the movie do seem like the world is way way more fictionalized and false. The film seems to waffle on if movies would be made in hollywood, the party of megacity that is obviously filmed in california that may or may not be diegetically the california district or if movies come from no where and just appear in a world without hollywood that the fake media just tells you exists.
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Oct 8, 2021 23:31
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SamBishop posted:I feel like there should be some fun easter eggs buried in there given all the effort that was put into the city, but I fully admit that I basically just had my face melted by the initial shock that I could zoom around and promptly forgot about actually exploring the starting space. A ton of actual film development uses unreal 5 now. I imagine this is movie assets with a bunch of sliders turned down more than stuff they put lots of work into for a game.
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Dec 13, 2021 23:57
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I hated the names of everyone in zion. Everyone in the matrix got computer puns or anagrams. Everyone in zion had weird short names and nouns that made it seem like they had symbolic names but like, I think dozer is just big like a bulldozer.
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Dec 20, 2021 20:18
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Robot Style posted:Just the younger characters, really. The councillors and some of the older captains have more normal sounding names, which makes sense if they were pulled out of the Matrix before (from their point of view) screen names were a thing, and then the descriptive nickname fad came from all the hackers that were being pulled out of the Matrix. In world I guess it makes sense. It just felt bad story telling wise. Like you could have some thing where dozer was metaphorically called that because he was asleep, to go with morphius. And tank was important because he was a tank grown human or something. Everyone had named that sounded like they could match up with something but it felt like most people didn't or they just jumbled all the names up so none fit.
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Dec 20, 2021 21:11
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This movie wasn't super good, but it was 1000% correct about everything and that rules.
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Dec 23, 2021 04:20
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Literal first thing shown on screen at the start of the original matrix 
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Dec 23, 2021 04:56
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The final narration of the original matrix is neo explaining humans need to break boundaries and discover who they are while the camera slowly zooms in on the gap between M and F
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Dec 23, 2021 05:02
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Necrothatcher posted:It's kind of hosed up that Lana went out of her way to actively mock the trans reading of the first movie. I don't think she was mocking the reading. She was talking about how the dopey marketing idiots were trying to figure out how to turn a subversive (video game) into a bland commercial product. It's like the lorax book having a real actual environmental message and then the lorax eventually ending up on disposable diapers and SUV ads.
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Dec 23, 2021 13:58
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I think it's interesting neo and trinity both got scenes dealing with their appearance that were exact mirrors. Like for neo oh sorry, the machines made you look slightly different on the outside than you see yourself so we couldn't possibly find you for most of a century. where for trinity she looked the same, but handsome chad (lol) just laughed at her for saying it Like the two scenes are kinda the same but I can't quite worm my brain around WHY it's important they were different. Neo sees himself inaccurately to how everyone else sees him, trinity sees herself accurately but is dismissed for saying it.
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Dec 23, 2021 16:06
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Cacator posted:On the whole this felt so more influenced by Sense8 in style than the original trilogy. Which I don't mind because much like Resurrections, Sense8 is a sloppy mess that also rules hard. When they are fighting in the underground bathroom sewer (what WAS that room???) it feels like they kept showing the sense 8 logo. Although I think it was the same "an 8 is an infinity symbol and you can draw one by making two Os in a mirror" instead of a referance to the show)
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Dec 23, 2021 16:50
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