|
AnEdgelord posted:Oko is literally a staple in every format hes legal in How long until he becomes staples in formats he’s not legal in? Can’t wait to see him as a 4-of in 1994, Theros Block Constructed, and Yu-gi-oh’s Unlimited format!
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2019 00:10
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 03:16 |
|
|
venutolo posted:MCQ day 2 metagame is something like 63% Oko: That’s legit worse than Caw Blade levels of dominance, let alone Ravager Affinity Affinity was a deck where you either played it, played a silver bullet against it at the cost of all your other matchups, or played another deck that loses to Affinity but would at least have a good chance against everyone else dumb enough to not play Affinity. Caw Blade was a deck where you played it, played a variety of it tuned to curbstomp the regular versions of Caw Blade at the cost of relatively weaker matchups against other decks, played Splinter Twin since it could actually sometimes win if you got lucky against Caw Blade, or stay at home and wonder why JtMS is 200$+ per copy and cry about standard deck prices for incredibly good reason. I don’t think there legit is any reason to use any deck that isn’t UG as it stands right now; no amount of silver bullets is going to stop a 3 mana planeswalker that pretty much just by existing renders any creature lacking immediate impact that costs more than 1 complete garbage from completely warping the format, especially when the color combination also has a cantrip that completely shuts down legit every single way to actually deal with him favorably, and the best card draw in standard. When someone can unironically cut Black Lotus from a vintage deck to play another Oko and the immediate response is not being laughed out of the room for being completely insane, that is the kind of card for which an honest to god emergency ban might actually be warranted without drastic outrage. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Oct 27, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2019 05:03
|
|
|
ungulateman posted:playing a threat rather than a black lotus is not actually that crazy in vintage. if the thing you're doing with lotus is just going to get pyroblasted anyway (which it often is, as he tweeted about) then playing another card that does something rather than a card that lets you get pyroblasted faster makes sense. lotus is only the best card in the game if you're immediately doing broken things with it, and 'casting narset on turn 1' is not the caliber of broken thing that meets that requirement. (casting narset on turn 1 is obviously still really good but it's not turn 1 lethal tendrils or whatever) I agree with what you’re saying entirely and get the logic behind cutting it. The point is that Oko is so powerful that you can make that argument to begin with. If Oko makes it it the next B&R announcement for Standard before being banned I’ll be surprised.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2019 18:25
|
|
|
TacoNight posted:Oversized booster packs so we can brew with our oversized commanders? Oversized commander decks, containing value reprints like Mox Opal, Jace the Mind Sculptor, and Black Lotus! they actually could reprint Black Lotus as an oversized card without breaking the reserved list
|
|
#
¿
Oct 28, 2019 19:50
|
|
|
So how long until Oko eats an emergency ban?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2019 19:52
|
|
|
Ate My Balls Redux posted:Spoken like someone who wasn't playing during Masques standard Combo winter and black summer were unironically more healthy formats than this current standard. 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2019 01:45
|
|
|
The fact that this lacks the usual exile clause on recast cards is potentially going to break things incredibly hard. Yawgmoth’s Will, one of the most broken cards in MtG history, still only let you get a second cast out of what was in your graveyard. This, if you have enough cards and mana to do so, lets you cast the same spell multiple times. Are there any rituals that mill you? If there are, this 100% gets nukes out of any format with that ritual spell, with a good chance it might get banned even if WotC never was dumb enough to make a self mill ritual.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 30, 2019 20:03
|
|
|
The original Heliod was by far the worst of the monocolor Theros gods and I think he might still be better than this new one. He’s legit 100% useless unless you have another creature on the board with him, and unlike the original Purophoros he doesn’t do anywhere near enough with other creatures out to be worth the downside. In a set where the other monocolor gods are a creature medallion + potential card advantage activated ability, a sac outlet that also serves as a disincentive for board wipes, and an indestructible sneak attack, he’s just a loving joke. I guess this combos with Walking Ballista at least?
|
|
#
¿
Dec 31, 2019 18:55
|
|
|
http://mythicspoiler.com/tbd/cards/nyxbloomancient.html This seems like the epitome of “too much ramp” Note this affects all permanents, not just lands, in case you want to pop your Black Lotus for 9 mana instead of 3, or make anything that can produce more than 1 mana incredibly stupid in general. EDIT: Oh god imagine the size you could get Krasis to with this out, ban all simic cards please the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jan 8, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2020 20:13
|
|
|
http://mythicspoiler.com/tbd/cards/mysticalrenewal.htmlcode:
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
So why does the card set on the slightly better Smite the Monstrous have Elspeth killing what looks an awful lot like a Phyrexian? Are we getting corrupted Theros next revisit?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 9, 2020 17:42
|
|
|
 Black enchantment removal exists now!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 10, 2020 17:30
|
|
|
So how long until Oko gets banned from Legacy?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2020 10:17
|
|
|
Ok on a scale of 1-10, 1 being “usual standard grumblings but otherwise fine” and 10 being “Combo Winter”, where does the current standard lie?
|
|
#
¿
May 17, 2020 05:36
|
|
|
Did you expect it to see a ban in the format that doesn’t do bans?
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2020 11:54
|
|
|
YggdrasilTM posted:People are giving too much relevance to this. Its a given that if any companion becomes a problem in Vintage you need to ban it, because the mechanic itself makes restriction useless. I entirely understand that, but it’s a good way to say “WotC hosed up with this big time” when one of their new sets big mechanics is so fundamentally broken that a card with it had to be banned out of vintage because the mechanic makes restriction meaningless. Hell, Lurrus basically restricted itself because you can’t run copies of it maindeck and still have it as your companion, and it still broke vintage in half. Once they errata the mechanic to be less blatantly broken, it’ll probably be restricted like the rest of the usual vintage stuff and life will go on.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2020 13:56
|
|
|
Quick question: should I be selling off some of my MtG cards since who knows when I’ll be able to use them again? And if so, what’s the best way to do so since all the physical stores are closed due to the reason I want to sell off my cards?
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2020 02:42
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Oko was undercosted by 1 mana. Companions were undercosted by 3 mana. It's pretty astonishing. I’m not even sure if 3 mana is enough of a drawback for standard purposes.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2020 18:54
|
|
|
 This screams “good”
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2020 06:15
|
|
|
 No comment.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 7, 2020 11:46
|
|
|
 Does Tron want this?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 7, 2020 19:37
|
|
|
Sprouting Thirnax saw play, but that was in Alara block and well before creature powercreep hit the levels we see today.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2020 12:53
|
|
|
 The biggest crab.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2020 15:17
|
|
|
I actually was one of the few people who generally liked what they did with the Eldrazi in BFZ, since they were still being portrayed as alien and "off" in ways that you didn't really see before. Using your opponent's exiled cards as a resource, having very unusual effects like "your opponent can't cast even cmc spells", having cards that specifically required colorless mana to cast or use the abilities of, and still a good amount of huge monsters. Only really dumb part was devoid being a thing (since in the original RoE only the actual huge Eldrazi got to be truly colorless, the drones were still colored like normal) but at least understandable for pesudo-tribal support working both with them and with colorless artifacts. It was the Zendikar side of the equation that generally fell super-flat to me, although the problem with BFZ and OGW in general was an overall abysmal powerlevel. (Also the colorless eldrazi breaking multiple formats thanks to Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple) As a set this feels anemic and boring though, largely because they managed to forget most of what made Zendikar stand out period. The Eldrazi titans were gone, but there still could easily have been a couple of surviving Spawn/Drones/Scions/etc lurking around, or even just the occasional reminder of their previous presence in deoslated wastes or ancient artifacts. The word "Eldrazi" shows up on a grand total of two cards worth of flavor text, there's one or two cards where if you look closely enough you can see some wastes, and there's one card serving as a callback to Eldrazi Monument (Forgotten Monument). That's all they get. The theme of lands being able to turn into creatures, a theme seen in Worldwake with the dual-color manlands and the Zendikon cycle, and continued in BfZ block with Awaken spells and the other dual-color manlands, is basically non-existent in this set. You have one manland, one planeswalker able to temporarily turn a land into a creature (which is part of her usual gimmick), and one common enchantment that exists as a nod to the original Zendikon cycle. Honorable mention to Ashaya for turning all your creatures into lands, at least. The first two Zendikar blocks also were fans of oddball nonbasic lands: Valakut was part of a cycle, after all, and then you also had common ETBT lands that had minor extra effects, such as Teetering Peaks and Turntimber Groove in the original Zendikar, or Bojuka Bog and Sejiri Steppe in WWK. (To say nothing of Eye of Ugin) BFZ had more of the common ETBT lands with extra effects like Looming Spires or Fertile Thicket, the Blighted cycle of colorless tapping lands that could be sacrificed with colored mana costs for decent effects (hi Blighted Woodland), and then a couple of colorless utility lands in OGW such as Ruins of Oran-Rief, Sea Gate Ruins, and Mirrorpool. Nothing like those lands exist in ZnR: only a single nonbasic land isn't part of a MDFC, and almost all of the nonbasic land halves of MDFCs are just ETB T for 1 color mana with nothing else of note (with the mythic rare cycle at least having an option to pay 3 life to have it enter play untapped). There is something profoundly ironic that a plane associated so heavily with lands like Zendikar now has a set where almost none of the lands actually stand out in any significant way. Mechanically the MDFCs are hopefully going to be a huge help in reducing the number of dead games where one side does nothing but get mana flooded/screwed, and that's probably going to be the strongest aspect of this set when we look at it in the rearview mirror, but it's still disappointing to see a lack of 'proper' utility lands nevertheless. Allies, a major and popular component of the previous two Zendikar blocks, are entirely absent; there is a single mention of the creature type as basically flavor in Tazri's activated ability, and outside of that there's nothing. Instead, you have Party, which is divided up between 4 different creature types, 3 of which already get tribal support occasionally (good news for Cleric fans I guess) and flavorwise is as blatantly 'not-D&D' as you could get. Considering that in a bit less than a year we'll be getting actual D&D for flavor, that's legit disappointing. With all of that gone, you're left with landfall (and I have no idea if it'll even be relevant this time around since fetchlands didn't make a comeback, just like it bombed back in BFZ block), the regular Zen tribes of kor, merfolk, vampires, goblins, and elves (and the primary creature types are mostly just flavor this time since all the tribal support is focused on Party, so even the vampire creature type isn't of significant note this go-around), an equipment subtheme like the original Zendikar, and a few callbacks to OG Zen cards here and there that mostly only stand out to people who were around for the original Zendikar block. Bright side: BIGGEST CRAB EVER EDIT: Worth noting that there's actually almost zero overlap between Landfall and Party; Moraug is the only creature in the set with a Party-compatible creature type and a landfall ability. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Sep 10, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Sep 10, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
So that would make the last good set Alara Reborn then, if I remember correctly.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 11, 2020 04:08
|
|
|
fadam posted:I don’t think it’s a good comparison at all tbh, there are plenty of Green decks that have no interest in Goyf, but I can’t imagine a UG deck that doesn’t want Uro. Out of them, Stoneforge is only good if you’re running enough good equipment, Dark Confidant wants a lower mana curve deck, Goyf only really stands out in midrange these days , Young Pyromancer needs a ton of spells to work with, and even Snapcaster Mage loses a lot of value without running a good number of low cmc instants or sorcerers to flashback with it. Uro probably doesn’t make the cut in a UG aggro deck if one somehow comes into existence, but why bother with UG aggro when Uro exists anyways?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2020 00:59
|
|
|
Just reprint Swords to Plowshares and that might be broken enough removal to keep Uro in check. Might.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 13, 2020 12:38
|
|
|
Is there any reason to play anything but URGw Uro + Omnath ramp?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2020 19:03
|
|
|
Traditionally, any card that’s costed more than 3 colors to play has been completely unviable for constructed play unless you’re somehow cheating it in. Not even the most greedy and slow 5CC decks of Lor/Ala standard where you were going turn 4 cryptic into turn 5 cloudthresher into turn 7 cruel ultimatum dared to include Maelstrom Angel for an example. Literally the only previous 5 color card I can think of that saw standard play was Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and that was probably off the back of Dragonstorm during Ravnica/Time Spiral standard. And I might be misremembering that. Progentius saw eternal format play for a while, but that was by cheating it out in some fashion rather than actually hardcasting it for the WWUUBBRRGG cost. Considering how rarely 4 color decks are a thing in standard (usually only when mana bases are absurdly pushed in some fashion, like Khans/BfZ standard), as well as the last time a 4 color card got printed was *checks notes* the original Ravnica block, Omnath slipping through like it did is honestly understandable. The dev team probably assumed it would never be playable just due to the 4 color cost and didn’t think of what would happen if it was actually consistently playable on curve or earlier. the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Sep 20, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2020 06:11
|
|
|
Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Niv-Mizzet Reborn saw a little play not that long ago. It saw a substantial amount of play in both Pioneer and Modern as well. Chromanticore saw a bit of play as well, though admittedly the plan was rarely to cast it. Thanks, I had forgotten about Chromanticore and assumed that Niv Mizzet Reborn only saw play in EDH. Part of me wants to put OuaT and Oko in + appropriate mana bases and play this deck in modern/legacy.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2020 16:37
|
|
|
I legit think this deck is so degenerate that you'd have to reprint Balance to have removal broken enough to keep it in check. Maybe a 'fixed' version that counts every single type of permanent and empties your mana pool on cast?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2020 19:58
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:by the way, the answers theyve printed in the last year have been some of the best answers theyve printed in standard literally ever so no the problem isnt that the answers arent good enough for the threats, the problem is just the threats. if you path your opponents uro, you got played for a chump. If you hit Uro with Swords to Plowshares, you still got played for a chump. Even countermagic still leaves you behind in the long run unless it’s Dissolve or the like.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2020 22:27
|
|
|
Considering Murderous Rider is in standard and sees approximately zero play, I’m not even that sure your hypothetical black kill spell would be good enough.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2020 15:55
|
|
|
If they were both legal, I’d unironically play the 1 damage exile if it dies MDFC spell over Lightning Bolt in this format. Sure, 2 bolts kills Uro but it’ll be back next turn anyways; the 1 damage ping actually gets rid of it for good if it’s the first non-escape cast while still being good enough to snipe Lotus Cobra. Even the absolute golden grail of removal, Swords to Plowshares, still is leaving you 2 for 1’d, 3 for 1’d if you waited to use it until it escaped. Uro in particular is so broken that most countermagic is terrible against it, which is the usual “check” to anything with dumb ETB effects. Outside of counterspells that exile like Disspiate or Void Shatter where it’s a clean 1 for 1 and Uro is gone for good, you need countermagic that cantrips like Cryptic Command or Remand. Otherwise, you’re still losing the value war in the long run. Maybe Mana Drain would be good enough for dealing with Uro the extra mana would help you ramp something out next turn? Bear in mind no counterspell currently in standard exiles or cantrips.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2020 16:48
|
|
|
Too expensive, doesn’t hit Omnath.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2020 17:03
|
|
|
mandatory lesbian posted:Cawblade is back baby Cawblade unironically was never anywhere near this dominant. Even ignoring that Cawblade had actual significant variants (such as Darkblade, where you splashed black for removal), that standard still had the Splinter Twin combo as legit competition, and then Valakut was also somewhat viable. You probably unironically have to go back to at least Ravager Affinity for a standard deck anywhere near this overbearing, and that at least you could try to hate it out to a degree since enough artifact removal could cause serious problems for them. Ban Uro, Into the Wilds (which may as well be draw 5 for 5 + ramp given how it works) Part of the problem is that there is an abundantly ridiculous amount of land-based ramp in standard right now: Azusa, Beanstalk Giant, Dryad of the Ilysian Groove, Fertilid, Migratory Greathorn, Murasa Rootgrazer, Omen of the Hunt, Solemn Simulacrum, and Uro all are cards that can ramp you and then do something else on top of it either immediately or down the line. That's ignoring Cultivate, Migration Path, Roiling Regrowth, and Vastwood Surge as spells that only ramp you: All 4 of these are enough to trigger Omnath's second landfall ability by themselves and thus refund their own manacost, and only Cultivate doesn't let you hit the third landfall ability on top of that by itself. Then you have absolutely stupid payoffs on top of it: Into the Wilds is almost just flatout "draw 5 and also ramp you" for 5 mana, Genesis Ultimatum is absolutely stupid in that it's cheating creatures like crazy while also putting more ramp spells into your hand or ramping you even further, and Turntimber Symbiosis isn't that blatantly offensive and actually is overcosted for what it does except for the fact that if you're not drowning in lands yet you can just play it as a land for the turn. Even ignoring all of that, simply having Omnath out at all turns Evolving Wilds and Fabled Passage into almost a better version of Black Lotus (yes I would like to gain 4 mana this turn for the cost of 0 mana and 1 card in hand and then still have a land to tap for mana in future turns in exchange for giving up my land drop this turn, and in the case of Fabled Passage make that 5 mana instead), to say nothing of how stupid things get once Lotus Cobra is included. You literally have to go back to Combo Winter for the last time where mana was this stupidly easy to generate in this amount in Standard. EDIT: Missed a few for land-based ramp, and then I forgot the regular "tap for mana" creature based ramp on top of it: notable offenders there include Gilded Goose, Ilysian Caryatid, the previously mentioned Lotus Cobra (although technically it doesn't tap for mana), and Tangled Florahedron (again, mostly because if you don't need the creature-based ramp you can just play it as a land instead). the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Sep 27, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2020 00:39
|
|
|
GoutPatrol posted:You would have to go back to last year for Golos Field decks. I will state that while I think that this is far worse than the Golos Field decks ever were, I do agree with the point that oh my god when was the last time Standard wasn't a horrible trainwreck
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2020 00:53
|
|
|
Yeah, Oko was actually incredibly fast in general from "release" to "ban from standard". Omnath is nowhere near the biggest mistake this year and at the very least is a fun build-around in EDH where I can actually at least see them overlooking it because 4/5 colored cards traditionally don't make a big impact in constructed. Honestly the problem is that there's so much overpowered ramp and ramp payoffs that even just nuking all 5 of Omnath, Cobra, Uro, Into the Wilds, and Genesis Ultimatum doesn't solve the problem completely; there's still stuff like Lucky Clover + Beanstalk Giant, multiple high-quality ramp spells in general, you still have a ramp + cantrip" creature in Solemn Simulacrum...
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2020 01:57
|
|
|
Gynovore posted:The really hosed up thing is that Sultai Control is pretty much metagamed to beat 4C Omnath. So now we're back in Black Summer, where the only decks are Necro and decks designed to beat Necro. Does Sultai Control even have a >50% matchup against 4C Omnath?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 27, 2020 04:53
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 22, 2024 03:16 |
|
|
If Omnath gets banned today, it’ll have been legal in standard for less time than Memory Jar was. Doing it would be a tacit admission that they hosed things up harder than they did in Urza’s block.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 28, 2020 05:32
|
|